hunting in trash

[sube]

Date: this minute
Registered: 3 years ago
Posts: 1,055

https://youtu.be/Ti0_tw0mNyA Well only took 7 hours to get the vid processed ,
There's a few things to mention before watching the video some targets were hard to see because I had to watch the camera and my sweep was not on center also I found that there is a delay from switching from ferrous coin to pinpoint sizing a second or two so engage pinpoint sizing a foot or two away from target and sweep into the target this gives the machine time to change modes and the target trace response quicker .
You have to understand what the iron is doing to the signal any iron , when you here the grunt of the iron or high false this will be 3 to 6 inches away from the target as you continual the sweep you will hit the false on the other side of the coil grunt or high tone this is not where you build the target you build the target between the grunts . Where there is no audio if you swing to far from side to side you will hit the false which gives audio like I did but I was detecting blind because the camera blocked my vision . So the best way to build a target is to just shake or wiggly the detector over the no audio spot this well give you the most accurate reading .
I kept saying numbers which should of been target location on the screen east west hits have lower #s and locations on the screen than north south hits the north south hits give higher or almost true readings because the coil is seeing the thin part of the nail and not the long part this is why you cross sweep the target to see what it does north and south .

This is a great way to relic hunt just by seeing the nonferrous signals in pinpoint sizing with target trace enabled also for checking iffy signals that you get while hunting in you regular mode.

For high trash areas like fairgrounds and some areas in parks hunting in pinpoint sizing with target trace .

I also like to mention that I don't know what's all going on but I know what the detector is displaying on the screen since I started hunting with this a couple years back I would hunt in ferrous coin and target trace and only find a few of these targets a hunt , now with going just in pinpoint sizing with target trace I have been finding twice as many targets .

I will be making a infield hunt video later this is just to get you started I tried but the screen glare was to bad and have to build something to hide the glare .

sube

 

[kittlitz]

Great stuff, Sube. Thanks!

-Ken

 

[sube]

https://youtu.be/yLOjR5kTvOA Here you go this is for high trash low trash and ground coin . sube

 

[CCadrin]

Tried to access the above video but it was flagged as private.

 

[sube]

Yea I changed that to public I don't no if it's on yet but it's being edited for shaky vid it's probably take 15 more minutes to be done or it's on now. sube

 

[sube]

A fine gentleman from another forum ask to see what depth I could get a trace at holding the coil above the target something I overlooked here are the results . ferrous coin would hit at 3 inches on a east west hit and 7 inches on a north south hit. High trash would only see it at 1 1/2 inches on a east west hit and 7 inches on a north south hit the north south hits all gave audio as you know so it would appear that the trace is tied to the audio yet at the same time the east west hits have no audio . So I still don't know why the trace is working on the east west hit without audio which would make it appear that the trace would be separate from the audio ?. I guess some more testing is in the works in the (dirt) . Well at least I found that this can be done in high trash to but it's not as deep as ferrous coin .One other thing is maybe when in ferrous coin the trace is seeing it north south and giving no audio because of the ground covering it . That would explain why I could of dug these signals down to 7 inches in real dirt . I guess I will have to wait for the snow to go away before more testing . sube

 

[sube]

Well at the end of the video I said field and it was in the basement .So I went outside and did the same test with the same results. sube https://youtu.be/e9QX7iekB5s


Masking video. sube

 

[sube]

Well I think I got some more of this figured out went into the basement and did some more test , instead of using that 4 inch nail on the dime I replaced it with a 3 inch nail which I cut in half to make it 1 1/2 inches long.

I ran the same test with high trash and ferrous coin , bang it hit me in the head the nail over the dime was smaller now ferrous coin and high trash both hit the dime at 7 inches no problem but ferrous coin was much easier to see high trash would come in not quite as good but if I looked at the screen more carefully you could see where the blocks leading up to the top were a lighter shade which made it harder to see then again sometimes it would be very vivid .

So it works similar to audio the bigger the nail the less depth you would get in trace the nail did not give audio on the east west hit at any depth except when you went north and south . So then I took 2 nails a inch and a half and x them like in my video trying to kill the audio both ways which it did same results 7 inches no problem .

So on to a more realistic test outside in (dirt) same results but it started to struggle at 8 inches Fresh dug hole dime nail .

It would be nice if someone could do this in there dirt and let us know if you have hot soil and give us your results . sube

 

[sube]

https://youtu.be/JK4uMJHKwoU

A few things I didn't mention in the video a east west hit always falses at the surface or at depth the bottle cap (iron) always gives 2 hits east west or north south , other bottle caps well give 1 hit those with aluminum foil in cap or just the metal there made of . Also pieces of iron , square , strips , irregular shapes and such well display the double hit but washers and stuff similar well give only 1 hit because there round with no points on them .(when I mention east west or north south think of the coils tip that's the farthest away from you as north). The north south hit on the nail well give only 1 hit if your 3 inches above or 3 inches deep the dime well triple hit if on the surface or about 2 inches deep , deeper well be a single hit .

When pinpointing the target you want to be in the center of those 2 hits east west to get the most accurate id of it you see me going back and forth over the falses on the side of the real target this is to show you that the falses also build on the screen 1 at about 12.15 and the other at 12.47 or 12.48 with the coin at the 12.37 mark being the biggest mark you can use these falses to find the center of the true target but when you pinpoint try to stay in the middle .This is very important when you have multiple nails to contend with.

The 12.37 I am getting from the coin is dragged down because of the size of the nail if it was a 4 inch nail the numbers would be 12.25 or so you can see that different sizes of iron well give different id numbers. Also the bigger the nail the less depth you will get or other iron object .

So most people get a false and pinpoint only to be dragged away from the original hit , but did they check to see if a coin was there using trace or just kept on detecting .Most of these hits when they happen are north south falses because they are actually pinpointing the nail but did they see if there was a target with that nail . On a east west hit there on the false which will build and dig and receive nothing because on this hit the nail is silent unless they hit the other false on the other side of the target .

The same thing happens with a coin 3 to 4 inches north or south of the nails center on a east west hit if you were creeping you would of picked that coin up before the nail and if you creep by the nail and there was a coin 3 inches north of the nail you would have picked it up with the tail of the coil .So the importance of overlapping the coil sweeps.


Find the target the 2 hits nail bottle cap whatever turn 90 degrees to the target are you getting 1 or 2 hits nail will be 1 hit most other iron object will retain the 2 hits either way now you kind of have a ideal what your looking at if a coin is with the nail chances are you will get audio on the other iron object with the 2 hits creep both ways to see if you can get audio .

If you receive no audio go to target trace pinpoint and see if you can build a target . I have my hot key thank to Bryan v trojdor and set up with high trash with disc set to just knock out nails I will check it in this mode also it discriminates a little different than ferrous coin giving me more imfo . Your still checking the target from north to south because the nail does not mask as well this way . Unless there are more nails involved which I will explain in a future video.

Non ferrous items are easy to work in there displayed on the screen and are not silent it's the iron that gives the problem being silent or throwing a false where the target is not located that's why you have to know what the iron is doing . sube

 

[sube]

https://youtu.be/Cwz-aUzzQ9I

Well I called mine lab and finally got a technician I started to explain what I was doing mind you he runs a ctx also . I might have been better off going to Wal-Mart and asking the checker behind the counter the guy did not have a clue what I was talking about

So I started playing with the setting again I had high trash set up to just knock out nails so I read about some old settings about the e-trac . So I put my detector in conductive and low and behold the dime started giving audio . not when directly under the nail but anywhere near except east west above or below .

Now I was under the assumption that combine would give audio when the dime was not under the nail like nail dime nail hit . Which would be low tone high tone low tone but it only gave a low tone for all the hits what happened to the high tone is there a glitch in combine or what .

So I had 2 different patterns set up both high trash does not matter what separation you use . I have the nails disc out 31 line to the 35 line any higher say 30 and up you would loose the audio because if you disc out say 29 and the coin with the nail comes in at 29.45 you will not hear it the cursor is just above the iron bin in the right hand corner . Now a thing about that cursor to watch is it dipping down in the 31 to 35 or is it staying above say it's going 29 to 20 good sign and the co #s have got to be stable say a dime would be 43 to 45 , 45 to 47 or 46 to 48 with a occasional 12.45 mixed in .

My bins are set up as bin 1 1 to 10 80hz bin 2 11 to 15 1000hz bin 3 16 to 28 80hz bin 4 29 to 50 1000hz this is my coin pattern you have to remember once that iron gets above the 31 line it will take whatever hz you assign to it Lot's of looking at the screen and more falses but easy to check by cross sweeping .

I wish that the combine mode worked like it was suppose to but when the nail is close to the coin it gives only a low tone except when cross sweep .

A nickel is a little strange as it well come in at 12.40 to 12.41 on a east west hit that's the coin at the point of the nail not under and when sweep north south well be 14.14 or there abouts but great audio either way.

So watch video and see what you think . sube

 

[sube]

I also got out today went to a church that is not there anymore just the cemetery 100 yards behind where it stood .So I started to do some mode comparisons I would run in high trash find a repeatable signal and switch to combine I dug about 20 good signals mostly nails and round iron pieces when I went into combine and sweep the targets it would like tony said be a little scratchy not quite good .

Then I found another signal in high trash and check it in combine the signal repeated both ways a good signal so I went back to high trash and sweep the target again this time listening very carefully sounded real good in all directions the cursor was almost locked on at 18.40 then back to combine ferrous coin could not get the cursor to lock on in one spot it would come and go but sounded real good .So I started to sweep the target again good sound both ways so I added disc to the 31 line to 35 now that target was really clear hardly any grunting with the target if I stay right on the target and wiggle in that spot it was all high tone if I sweep the target I would pick up the iron which distorted the signal .

I dug the target 3 inches down and to one side I get a nail but there was something else in the hole at 6 inches a wheat back yes . So since I had the hole opened up I place 2 nails and the penny like my video and covered it up back to high trash good signal both ways with a occasional false then I tried ferrous coin combine open screen no disc and got a high tone both way (what) it was a high tone mixed with a grunt on each side . Now I added disc to the 31 to 35 line no grunts just a nice high tone with a occasional false .

Put the nail and coins on the ground like in the video and sweep it in ferrous coin combine and guess what 3 low tones so I am wondering if it is the sandy soil I have in my yard. Because now I know that combine works like it is suppose to . By the way I tried this at another site same thing it gave a low high low in the ground then on top of the ground it gave a low low low

What did I learn that little bit of disc 31 to35 made that signal as clear as a bell compared to just open screen and besides I don't have to listen to all that iron .Now this does not seem like much but when that coin is with nails or iron it is a lot easier to pick that high out of there without all that grunting .

So if you get a distorted high tone signal try to get the best sound out of it then wiggle over that exact spot if it is clear in combine I'm digging it . The reason it is distorted is because your going over the iron with a wider sweep by staying tight to the spot ferrous coin combine well give a good signal . sube

 

[sube]

[/img] Remember when I said that I could not get a high tone in my yard with nail dime nail in combine well I had set my disc line at 31 to 35 there was another nail I had left by the hole didn't here it because I had it disc out :veryangry: which messed up my testing

Anyway back to the hunt here are the settings I used pattern 1 was total open screen ferrous coin combine fe line at 26 pattern 2 was open screen ferrous coin combine fe line at 26 with disc set at 31 to 35 my user button was high trash open screen conduct 4 tone pattern 2 for user screen was open screen with 31 to 35 disc out .

Now I would run in high trash open screen hit a signal and switch to pattern 2 high trash with 31 to 35 disc out when I was in pattern 2 sometimes the cursor would lock on the target better compared to pattern 1 such as the 1920 penny I found which happens to be the only coin I would not of dug in my combine modes this had a lot of iron with it mostly nails.

After finding the object I would switch to pattern 1 ferrous coin combine if I got a high tone with grunts I would go to pattern 2 ferrous coin with the 31 to 35 line disc out this made it a lot easier to hear just the high tone okay .Sounds like a lot of switching but can be done in about 15 seconds or less .

Getting back to ferrous coin combine it's hard to fool this mode real hard the only way you can mess it up is by not getting directly on the target when wiggling I think if you dig iron in this mode you are really stretching for a good signal it is that good trust me .Very hard to fool period .

I think if I had the 6 inch coil I would of got that 1920 penny because there was just to much iron under the stock coil also the two pieces of jewelry were not very good in ferrous coin combine they were ragged cursors and sounded fuzzy I think it has to do with the shape of the item ferrous coin really likes round things .

High trash sees all the conductive targets and iron that is conductive where as ferrous coin combine is very selective at what it gives a high tone to , but you will miss targets with ferrous coin that are with iron because you have to be dead on that high tone to give a high tone and it's hard in iron Lot's of iron to hit that exact spot .Now high trash really doesn't care because it doesn't have to be dead on like ferrous coin combine so it will see more targets than ferrous coin combine which is great because you can at least know where the target is because it alerted you to it .

I think I'm going to name combine mode as the confirmer it's that good just got to hear what it's doing when in iron especially with all the grunts and falsing going on that little bit of disc really helps clear a lot of the signals up. I also dug about 20 more nails just to make sure that ferrous coin combine was right and it was sube



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[trojdor]

I think if you dig iron in this mode you are really stretching for a good signal it is that good trust me .Very hard to fool period.

Sube,
Something I don't see talked about very often, is that those of you blessed with extremely low iron mineralized ground have it made when hunting in FC.

Because in my ground...Colorado and New Mexico...if you hunt exclusively in FC, you'll get fooled and dig almost every nail in the ground.

The more iron mineralization there is in the ground, the more likely it is the CTX will call a nail a coin if using Ferrous Coin.

In other words, where the FC works great for you, as far as accuracy in your ground...it works horribly for me, and is the least trustworthy of all the modes.

I wanted to point this out because over the years, many guys have posted 'magic' programs almost exclusively using Ferrous Coin, and they simply don't work in all types of soil.
They certainly don't work in highly mineralized dirt.
Guys around here think they can use those 'magic' setting, then get so frustrated they want to smash and/or sell their CTX because one-size really doesn't fit all.

We need to occasionally point out that the CTX manual recommends different separation modes for different soils for a very good reason.
FC is absolutely a 'golden bullet' for non-mineralized soil...but for highly mineralized ground it's more of a 'lead balloon'.

And before I sign off, I have to say I'm also jealous of how nice your coins come out of the ground...they're beautiful.
Mosy of my old nickels and pennies look like crusty buttons in comparison...

HH, and thanks again for all the time you take experimenting and posting.

mike

 

[sube]

trojdor What I should of said was if your in low trash high trash ground coin or ferrous coin ( combine ) will give you the most accurate vdi and it's hard to fool .

Now I wonder when people get in trouble using combine and it turns out to be a nail or other iron object that vdi as a coin that there using the correct separation mode .

To give a example say your running ferrous coin and your sense #s are 23 to 19 and then out of nowhere they drop to 19 to 15 well what just happened you are on more mineralized soil even if your soil is mild or moderate . Say your hunting in a area that your #s are holding 23 to 19 you hit a area that has lot's of rusted away caps or other iron objects making the soil more mineralized than where you were a minute ago so falsing starts and more clatter and pops if you run auto +3 your detector well go down #s wise to say 19 to16 and the noise will go away with falsing clatter and pops .

In these areas maybe you should go to ground coin or high trash regardless if your soil is moderate or mild by being in ground coin or high trash you should be able to run hotter than in ferrous coin in this location ?

trojdor is correct in not using what other people use you have to find out what's best for you .

The best way I have found is when you find a 6 inch coin is to run all the separation modes on it and see what gives the best signal and adjust your settings to that . sube

 

[IDXMonster]

Sube....A MILLION thanks for all of your experimentation and detailed relay of information regarding the different modes and combinations of settings. The CTX is TRULY an engineering marvel,if there's a good coin around chances are quite high that the CTX will find it,provided settings are at least in the ballpark. It's pretty tough to mess it up except for the most difficult coins to find,whether they be on edge,masked,etc. I've had GREAT success with the stock and 17" coils,the 06 does well but my sites are larger,it's not necessary most of the time. The 06 does great when I've used it,depth is quite amazing as well!
Please keep this thread going as time goes on,all of it is VERY interesting and helpful! Thank you!!

Kevin

 

[jhittle]

is there a set of published or recommended ranges for the CTX on Mineralization I have not been able to find clear documenting on what is considered High Medium and Low Mineralization, what are the guidelines you use or recommend?

 

[sube]

ihittle Most people go by the sensitivity #s your machine wants to work at 1 to 10 would be high 10 to 20 medium and 20 to 30 low this is how most people judge the mineralization in there soil . sube

 

[amberjack]

thanks for the tip on adding a bit of disc in the iron and also maybe trying different modes if auto numbers drop will give it a try anyway to squeak out one more coin is fine with me.

good tips, and thanks to all who post stuff up.

oh one thing worth a try is to go over the spot starting at 1 on noise cancel channel then 2 and on up you might get a surprise, one tip I found by fiddling don't know if anyone else has done this but anyway give it a try see what you think its something I stumbled across sort of by accident happy accident

AJ

 

[sube]

Quote
TrpnBils
The picture below illustrates where I'm at with target trace. I know it's a powerful tool, but i can't seem to prove that to myself. When I get something that looks like the screenshots on that Minelab article that was linked a few replies back, it almost always ends up just being garbage (mixed with other garbage). There's something I'm missing, and I know that...especially at depth (even in a test garden where I know there is something) a lot of times I can't even get a mark on my screen even though it gives me audio. Thoughts?


Target trace is tied to the audio when the display paints a picture but it is a separate circuit from audio to prove it's separate reject your whole screen target trace still works . But when ran with audio the #s and trace work the same as in one .

Target trace and audio are both affected by sensitivity the higher the sensitivity the better the trace will be displayed the less sensitivity the weaker the trace in my soil running at 23 for sense just gives me a trace at 7 I/2 inches maxed at 30 for sensitivity I can get 9 inches if you want more depth on target trace you have to look at the screen carefully the area that is a light shade compared to the rest of the screen is where your trace is happening it's very light blue gray in this area a good trace will be red .

So if your in your coin garden running sense at 23 you will not paint a trace on your screen on a 8 inch coin .You may have a light blue or gray trace in that area if you look close to get a better trace you have to crank the sense up .

(Now sensitivity will control the trace in pinpoint) also but pinpoint remains at max depth regardless of sensitivity #s So if you go to pinpoint sizing with trace you can only build a trace as deep as your sense is set at . When in pinpoint sizing you can run your sensitivity much higher than disc mode which is a motion mode and pinpoint sizing is not a motion mode there by making it less prone to falsing and other noises . Pinpoint sizing is not a pure all metal mode it still using a form of disc ground minerals and such but in reality it's quite close .

I like to engage pinpoint sizing off the ground if you engage it over the target it tunes to that ground and if you engage it on the ground by the target it will tune to that ground where I'm at I would be tuning it to another nail or something .Remember as you wiggle over the target if you push the pinpoint button again it well detune the coil making it harder to see the trace but if you know what the trace is you can detune it farther and farther to get the exact spot where the good audio is coming from .

When in pinpoint sizing you still have to move the coil to get trace to be displayed the smaller the wiggle the more accurate the id . Sizing also lets you know the shape of the target size and length of target which will let you decide if you want to proceed to check the target out more.

When doing nail test such as _0_ line means nail 0 means coin if done on top of ground in combine open screen you will get low low low if you bury it say 4inches you will get low high low so bury the nails and coins when testing I have a vid showing these but it is only out of dirt in dirt different story can't edit it but be aware of this.

Now my first screen is open except that the 31 to 35 line is disc out second screen open when I check targets I go back to first screen iron is always present in the lower right corner in my soil but with that disc out portion 31 to35 I get some more imfo if I get a rejected diamond it tells me that the iron is a nail or similar size no audio no grunt or high mixed in now bigger iron will be rejected with a diamond to but well high tone and chop very unstable #s and make weird sounds .

Going back to the _0_ if you pass your detector over this with 31 to 35 line disc out you will only hear the high between the nails so that disc will clear a lot of signals that are masked with small iron .On this type of masking and others these are sweep speed sensitive to fast and you will not hear it these high tones you hear between the nails will be short almost a chop but very noticeable dig me signal . I think everybody should do this test to see what swing speed you should deploy .

That depth gauge will give you some more imfo on digging or not if a nail or small piece of iron is with a coin the depth gauge will be more stable say 3 to 4 or 6 to 7 where as a plain nail will read 3 to 6 or 6 to 10 a coin being with the nail or small iron will be much more stable say 3 to 5 or 6 to 8 not quite perfect but gives you a idea that it's not long one way like the nail by itself .

I hope this helps you . sube

 

[mcb613]

Sube, good efforts with this topic! I would like to ask if the indication of a null is key? I would assume depending on what direction your hitting the target from?
Also, I attempted this approach on Weds snd seemed like 80 percent of mu like scenario targets, all had a build around 12-37. Is there any true indicator, that says" yes" dig this one. Or is it your message that coins can be hidding and may look like this?
Im confused. BTW, has Andy S made comment on any of this? I didnt here it in Bootcsmp.
Thx and looking forward to your comment.