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Starting to hear that the Cazador is a no go.

JASONSPAZ1

New member
Was reading another forum and heard some rumblings that the Cazador will not be happening. I hope Tesoro is not having $$ problems.

Fingers crossed that it ain't true.
 
If Tesoro would just put a 3 tone/1 tone audio ID option switch on the Vaquero and call it the Cazador, I'd be elated. I haven't seen nothing really new this year from any detector company. It's mostly just detectors that are re-worked and repackaged.

tabman
 
it works great..................just don't remember much about it after I wake up in the morning.
:yikes:
 
Got to think on the bright side...whatever comes out could well be worth the wait!
 
I don't see it happening. To me, I kind of get the impression that they're not doing well. Just a feeling I have. I'd sure hate to see them go under.
 
I have to disagree, even though I would like not to, but we have to face reality. Jack Gifford started Tesoro and had some very good ideas and brought out a number of very versatile detectors that I liked back then, and even like today. The problem was that when Tesoro got started we had a number of things happening in the metal detecting industry. Tesoro had some good models, but they got even better with the coming on the Inca in mid-'83 that gave use the first 2-filter, slow-motion/quick-response detector that handled iron nails quite well.

That was very good news, to me, because I hunted a lot of old town sites, homesteads and other out-of-the-way locations as well as urban tough-to-hunt places that abounded in iron nails and a lot of brush and/or building rubble. The fast-motion 4 filter types we had been using just couldn't match the Tesoro performance. But that was also an era of very rapid new feature advancements from the original Teknetics, White's and other big names that competed for the top spot as we saw a surge of Target ID models then Tone ID circuitry added to them or to non-display detectors. By 'surge' I mean a serious rapid growth in the hobby, but those years also reflected when the industry kind of peaked from about '83 to '86.

When I went to work at Compass Electronics in mid-'87 Ron Mack and I discussed how the industry had been trending over the past few years, and during the next year-and-a-half we saw many little guys fold, new start-ups spring-to-life and wilt in just a few months to a year or so. There have really been very few 'advancements' in technology, just a few folks who have improved the performance of their models, and managed to lighten the weight and make a few cosmetic changes for improved balance. For the most part, the last 15 to 20 years has really brought us a lot of decent performing detectors and many prices for them have dropped a bit to make things more competitive .... at the lower-to mid priced range.

So Tesoro's competition have had, and currently has, a lot of offerings in the same price range .... but with features not offered in those price ranges by Tesoro.

Also in the latter '80s we saw more mail-order discounting, but that really changed with the coming of the Internet and websites and forums and forum sponsoring, etc., etc. That cut into a lot of dealers sales and the number of smaller dealers and many bigger dealers have dwindled. This has really been noted in the number of far fewer Tesoro Dealers than there used to be, and the Tesoro Distributors I've spoken with for several years have confirmed the drop off in dealer numbers and especially in dwindling Tesoro orders and sales.

When they cut a deal with the big outfit a coupe of years ago, that was kind of a signal to many, not just me, that things are not running so smoothly at Tesoro. Now, don't get me wrong because I have enjoyed many favored detectors from Tesoro and keep at least one in my personal arsenal ... but in this day and age and with the market smaller and more competitive ... and I feel still dying off a bit in the hobby ... it has to be a struggle. You need a knowledgeable design engineer with the modern-day smarts to make a competitive detector, with features the majority of buyers demand, and a production goal to produce and market them such that the retail price will be very competitive.

I don't see that kind of funding based on the long-delay in a new model entry [size=small](what was it, eight years from the Vaquero to the Outlaw?)[/size], and that was basically a re-do of a proven oldie, not anything really new and competitive. Sadly, and I mean it, I think it is a matter of insufficient funding and quality engineering and aggressive marketing that has left Tesoro where they are in the industry, and I don't see a lot of promise in the near future.

We're into Fall and the daylight hours are dwindling day-by-day. I hope there's some way of Tesoro hanging in there and being able to come-to-life with the new year as we start to see more sunlight. It can be done, but it won't be easy, won't be cheap, and would likely mean a few changes in what we have, or will have, from Tesoro from product offerings to warranty offered.

Just my best guesses based on a bit of experience and time in the industry. Okay, it's 2:10 PM and the sun will be setting out here in western USA in just a few hours, so I'll take my Bandido II µMAX, and other proven gear, and head out for some nice Fall weather detecting.

Monte
 
like fishers just a new paint job is the best you can hope for
 
Kind of sad, yet informative. One thing that appears to be a "non normal" cost at Tesoro also would be the fact that they make ruggid units that last a long time and guarantee them for life. I've heard of people being a fourth owner of a 9 year old unit that sends it in and Tesoro does service and even upgrades at no cost. It makes for a good name, but has to eat into proffits somewhere.
 
n/t
 
Whites must be struggling.

tabman
 
Monte said:
I have to disagree, even though I would like not to, but we have to face reality. Jack Gifford started Tesoro and had some very good ideas and brought out a number of very versatile detectors that I liked back then, and even like today. The problem was that when Tesoro got started we had a number of things happening in the metal detecting industry. Tesoro had some good models, but they got even better with the coming on the Inca in mid-'83 that gave use the first 2-filter, slow-motion/quick-response detector that handled iron nails quite well.

That was very good news, to me, because I hunted a lot of old town sites, homesteads and other out-of-the-way locations as well as urban tough-to-hunt places that abounded in iron nails and a lot of brush and/or building rubble. The fast-motion 4 filter types we had been using just couldn't match the Tesoro performance. But that was also an era of very rapid new feature advancements from the original Teknetics, White's and other big names that competed for the top spot as we saw a surge of Target ID models then Tone ID circuitry added to them or to non-display detectors. By 'surge' I mean a serious rapid growth in the hobby, but those years also reflected when the industry kind of peaked from about '83 to '86.

When I went to work at Compass Electronics in mid-'87 Ron Mack and I discussed how the industry had been trending over the past few years, and during the next year-and-a-half we saw many little guys fold, new start-ups spring-to-life and wilt in just a few months to a year or so. There have really been very few 'advancements' in technology, just a few folks who have improved the performance of their models, and managed to lighten the weight and make a few cosmetic changes for improved balance. For the most part, the last 15 to 20 years has really brought us a lot of decent performing detectors and many prices for them have dropped a bit to make things more competitive .... at the lower-to mid priced range.

So Tesoro's competition have had, and currently has, a lot of offerings in the same price range .... but with features not offered in those price ranges by Tesoro.

Also in the latter '80s we saw more mail-order discounting, but that really changed with the coming of the Internet and websites and forums and forum sponsoring, etc., etc. That cut into a lot of dealers sales and the number of smaller dealers and many bigger dealers have dwindled. This has really been noted in the number of far fewer Tesoro Dealers than there used to be, and the Tesoro Distributors I've spoken with for several years have confirmed the drop off in dealer numbers and especially in dwindling Tesoro orders and sales.

When they cut a deal with the big outfit a coupe of years ago, that was kind of a signal to many, not just me, that things are not running so smoothly at Tesoro. Now, don't get me wrong because I have enjoyed many favored detectors from Tesoro and keep at least one in my personal arsenal ... but in this day and age and with the market smaller and more competitive ... and I feel still dying off a bit in the hobby ... it has to be a struggle. You need a knowledgeable design engineer with the modern-day smarts to make a competitive detector, with features the majority of buyers demand, and a production goal to produce and market them such that the retail price will be very competitive.

I don't see that kind of funding based on the long-delay in a new model entry [size=small](what was it, eight years from the Vaquero to the Outlaw?)[/size], and that was basically a re-do of a proven oldie, not anything really new and competitive. Sadly, and I mean it, I think it is a matter of insufficient funding and quality engineering and aggressive marketing that has left Tesoro where they are in the industry, and I don't see a lot of promise in the near future.

We're into Fall and the daylight hours are dwindling day-by-day. I hope there's some way of Tesoro hanging in there and being able to come-to-life with the new year as we start to see more sunlight. It can be done, but it won't be easy, won't be cheap, and would likely mean a few changes in what we have, or will have, from Tesoro from product offerings to warranty offered.

Just my best guesses based on a bit of experience and time in the industry. Okay, it's 2:10 PM and the sun will be setting out here in western USA in just a few hours, so I'll take my Bandido II µMAX, and other proven gear, and head out for some nice Fall weather detecting.

Monte
Spot on, Monte. How long ago did Tesoro announce there was a new detector in the works? Then I keep hearing they need the time "to get it right". What exactly is "it"? Are they working on new technology that is radically different from VLF or P.I.???? If so, where did they get the funds for research and how on earth would they be able to beat out the big names (and deep pockets) in the industry? Research costs money. If "it" isn't new technology, then we are talking about tweeking old stuff. How long does that take? Did they ever find a source for the chip needed to produce the Golden? This model seemed to be popular but the last time I checked, it was discontinued. This was not some mysterious chip that vanished from the face of the earth. Why couldn't Tesoro procure it? I know there are those diehards out there that want to see David slay Goliath, but history says "it" ain't gonna happen.
I personally like my regurgitated Outlaw. There are times that I want a meter. A meter with a needle! Give me some of that old time, simple technology. How hard can that be? I know we all have our personal "wants" in a detector, but this scenario with Tesoro looks dismal. One more thing before I get off of my soap box rant, where the hell is Tesoro's public relation's person?
 
Tesoro was near the "top of the heap" in "audio only" VLF detectors, designed with mostly all analogue electronics. Now they face several problems.

Audio only detectors are seriously out of style in the US market and even if you want a Tesoro, because even their oldest products work well and last nearly forever, the supply of good used machines at half the cost of a new one fills much of the demand. Until recently, they would service and repair used machines for free, even though their lifetime warranty has always been for the original owner only.

Although they are still popular in Europe, where Tesoro ised to be big, eurpoean companies like XP have taken that market over.

Developing a new detector today using older analog technology means you are stuck with yesterday's performance - even if you can get the parts you need to build it.

Any new detector today needs to be microprocessor controlled and use advanced digital signal processing, Carl Moreland, for example, who recently moved from Whites to First Texas, has a background with leading companies in advanced analogue and digital circuit design with leading chip manufacturing companies - I suspect Tesoro lacks this Kind of expertise.
 
Monte,
If they can get a good marketing guy in place with some real pull in the company they could still make it. Stop listening to us old timers on the forums and quit listening to the old timers at Tesoro and step back and look at what has been successful revenue generators in the industry. I'll point out two examples:

1st Texas Products and the Bounty Hunter line up.

Garrett and the ACE-250,

These two are proven examples of revenue generators and are geared toward those first time novices in the hobby. They are inexpensive, work decently enough, and have enough bells and whistles to draw the attention of the novice. If Tesoro can come up with something along these lines and then get them into the big box stores (Walmart, Big 5, Dicks, Cabalas, etc) they may be able to generate enough revenue to design something to compete in the high end market that many of us like to watch.

If I was Tesoro, I'd make a Tesoro ACE-250 designed with one thing in mind, and that would be attracting new users. Put a $199 price tag on it and big box it into a house hold name.

Then do what 1st Texas did with the T2 and F75 and all their prodigy, and what Garret did with the ATPro.

HH
Mike
 
Mike,

I think you nailed it. Tesoro can't ONLY rely on a shrinking number of local dealers for its survival.

Case in point - Mighty Minelab, in their last two annual reports has stressed that they are soon to relase a new "popularly priced" detector for Mass Merchandiser distribution.
 

Yeah, this would be the time to pipe up and add some feedback for us loyal Tesoro users.

We don't need details, just a response to let us know how the project is progressing would suffice.
 
Hi Rick,
Yes, and did you see the 1st Texas Response?

The new, modern, Quick Draw Pro. Can be bought new in box as low as $214.
The new, modern, Land Ranger Pro. Can be bought new in box under $300. I think I saw one for $279.

And these are not shabby units.

Tesoro needs to get something into this market to stay in the game and they don't have anything at the present time to do it with.

HH
Mike
 
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