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Excal Charger.
- Thread starter excalme
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
I know what you mean. I've got 3 lipo chargers. My first was a Celectra. Nice charger, but lacking a balance charge plug so I have to use my Blinkey card when charging with it to keep the pack balanced. My second charger was the Hextronics lipo only charger from Hobby City. At the time I think it was only $25 and the best price in a balance charger. It's a good non-nonsense charger that you just plug the lipo's balance plug into and it automaticly starts balance charging it. It features a nice big fan, aluminum case, and individual cell indicator lights to tell you when each cell peaks. That charger was the best value for a while and with no programming features to deal with for people who didn't want to mess with all that. You simply selected the charge rate via a slider switch to match 1C or less for your intended lipo. If anybody wants a charger that will just do lipos only and is as simple as possible this one is it, and I think it goes for like $10 or $15 these days. It's built like a brick. IMO though you are better buying the Accucel as it allows so many more battery types besides lipos to be charged. It's really not complicated to use, either. Once you set a few basic settings on it you'll probably never have to change them again, whether doing lipos or nimhs/nicads of various types.
Then along comes the Accucel 6. At $25 nothing can touch it feature/price wise. Now I don't even use my other two lipo chargers unless I'm flying planes in the field and want to be charging two or three packs as I fly another one in the air. It makes it nice and quick to keep having packs ready to go. Just the same, in the field I prefer using the Accucel 6 because it's got a "Fast" charge mode. This mode doesn't increase the amps and it still balance charges the pack. It just simply cuts out that last twenty or so minutes of charging where the cell voltage is near max and the charger will go to very low amps to top it off precisely. If you ever want to get into the field quick with your detector use the Fast charge mode of this charger.
You still need to plug in the power and balance plugs. The only lipo charge mode on this charger that doesn't require using the balance plug is the basic "CHARGE" mode, not the Fast or Balance charge modes. You should never have to use the regular charge mode because all lipos come with balance plugs these days. Balance mode is the normal charge mode to use. Use Fast charge mode when you need it charged right now (like less than a half hour) and it still balances the cells. You'll only lose about 300ma or so on a 2000ma pack that doesn't get put completely back into the pack, so you won't really notice it in shorter run time. I know I don't miss it when flying my planes with a 2250 pack. The beauty is often the pack I'm charging with it's fast mode is done before I land the plane. Otherwise I throw the extra dead packs on the other chargers to keep up.
For anybody new to this charger that was confusing to me at first- Both the balance plug and the normal two wire power plug need to be plugged into the charger when using balance or fast charge modes. The normal basic non-balancing charge mode should only be used with lipos (if you can find them these days) that don't feature a balance plug. Or, if you had a single cell lipo then obviously there is only one cell to charge and so you don't need to use a balance plug or balance mode. A single cell lipo will only have a two wire power plug, so just plug that in and use the basic lipo charge mode. Some digital cameras and other devices these days I think use single cell variations of lipo chemistry that you could probably charge with it. Just make sure it's set for the type of lipo. There's a cell voltage lipo type selection in one of the menus that you might need to change to match the proper lipo chemistry.
Then along comes the Accucel 6. At $25 nothing can touch it feature/price wise. Now I don't even use my other two lipo chargers unless I'm flying planes in the field and want to be charging two or three packs as I fly another one in the air. It makes it nice and quick to keep having packs ready to go. Just the same, in the field I prefer using the Accucel 6 because it's got a "Fast" charge mode. This mode doesn't increase the amps and it still balance charges the pack. It just simply cuts out that last twenty or so minutes of charging where the cell voltage is near max and the charger will go to very low amps to top it off precisely. If you ever want to get into the field quick with your detector use the Fast charge mode of this charger.
You still need to plug in the power and balance plugs. The only lipo charge mode on this charger that doesn't require using the balance plug is the basic "CHARGE" mode, not the Fast or Balance charge modes. You should never have to use the regular charge mode because all lipos come with balance plugs these days. Balance mode is the normal charge mode to use. Use Fast charge mode when you need it charged right now (like less than a half hour) and it still balances the cells. You'll only lose about 300ma or so on a 2000ma pack that doesn't get put completely back into the pack, so you won't really notice it in shorter run time. I know I don't miss it when flying my planes with a 2250 pack. The beauty is often the pack I'm charging with it's fast mode is done before I land the plane. Otherwise I throw the extra dead packs on the other chargers to keep up.
For anybody new to this charger that was confusing to me at first- Both the balance plug and the normal two wire power plug need to be plugged into the charger when using balance or fast charge modes. The normal basic non-balancing charge mode should only be used with lipos (if you can find them these days) that don't feature a balance plug. Or, if you had a single cell lipo then obviously there is only one cell to charge and so you don't need to use a balance plug or balance mode. A single cell lipo will only have a two wire power plug, so just plug that in and use the basic lipo charge mode. Some digital cameras and other devices these days I think use single cell variations of lipo chemistry that you could probably charge with it. Just make sure it's set for the type of lipo. There's a cell voltage lipo type selection in one of the menus that you might need to change to match the proper lipo chemistry.
Critter is the best one for that but as i understand the main charge goes through the thick wire 2 pin plug as its conected to all cells and the charger monitors the charge in each cell through the balance plug, discharging or slowing charge on the high cell or giving extra on the lower cells, or something to that affect
Critterhunter
New member
Yea, the main current flows through the main two wire power plug. The charger will shunt off any extra current to each individual cell via the balance port plug. I believe it does this by draining one or two of the cells to try to keep them as close to another cell that might be lagging behind. I know that's how my Blinkey card works. It doesn't have it's own power source but rather just drains any cells higher in voltage to match that of the lowest one.
Now, on some lipo chargers such as the Hextroniks blue/silver charger I talked about it only needs to be plugged into the balance plug. I think perhaps the reason for this is it can only go up to I think 2 amps. If you were to charge bigger packs at higher amp rates on some chargers the thinner wire used for the balance plug wouldn't be large enough to carry the current, so rather it outputs the current through the heavier main power plug and only uses the balance plug to shunt off extra charge on a cell at a lower amp rate. None of that would come into play with these lipos sizes we are using for detectors, but if you were charging a much bigger pack at a much higher amp rate then that's the only reason why I can figure that they'd want to supply the current through the main power plug.
Now, on some lipo chargers such as the Hextroniks blue/silver charger I talked about it only needs to be plugged into the balance plug. I think perhaps the reason for this is it can only go up to I think 2 amps. If you were to charge bigger packs at higher amp rates on some chargers the thinner wire used for the balance plug wouldn't be large enough to carry the current, so rather it outputs the current through the heavier main power plug and only uses the balance plug to shunt off extra charge on a cell at a lower amp rate. None of that would come into play with these lipos sizes we are using for detectors, but if you were charging a much bigger pack at a much higher amp rate then that's the only reason why I can figure that they'd want to supply the current through the main power plug.
Glad you brought that up about the plugs ....I would have plugged the balancing line in and waited for my battery to charge .....LOL !!..... I would have thought that I had a defective unit , and then when I went to turn it off the two power wires would touch and start aparking ......Sounds like what would happen to me .....Is there a download to the manual that they dont supply for the Accucel .....My order is on it's way ( I hope ...????? ) ....Jim
Critterhunter
New member
The manual can be a bit confusing on certain things as it's translated to English. I think it's even wrong in a few spots if memory serves. I would read it but besides that I would go to RCGroups.com and into the batteries/chargers forum and then search for threads on the charger. Don't confuse any that might be for the higher watt version called the Accucel 8 or something. There should be a huge long thread in there that was started like 2 or 3 years ago and it was great help to me when exploring this charger.
One thing I can say about it is that some thought it was defective because their normal m/v setting for nimhs/nicads that they used on other chargers was cutting off the charge too soon. I know compared to my other nimh/nicad charger the Accucel wanted about a two digit increase in the m/v setting to avoid false peaks. Normaly I might go 5 m/v for nimhs on the other charger and 12 m/v for nicads, but on this charger I almost always use 7 m/v for nimhs, 14 m/v for nicads. Don't use the "Auto" function either where it picks the amp rate and m/v setting I think. If you want a dummy charger then you shouldn't have this one in the first place. I don't trust a charger making those choices for me.
The most confusing part for you is probably going to be a few other settings that get set once and never are changed again. One involves I think wait time before checking a pack and the other does something else. Can't remember which is what but I think one for me is set at 1 minute and the other at 10 I think. It might default to those. That's why you should read that thread at RCGroups as stuff like this gets touched on. Another confusing part is the lipo type cell voltage. I think for normal lipos it is set to 3.7V or something per cell, where as you would think it would be 4.2V because that's why the lipo will charge to. Just if you've got any questions drop them here. If you aren't sure about the lipo type don't try charging until you've got that all confirmed and set. I think another is how long the charger waits before checking the lipo for proper 3 count voltage. I think maybe that's the one that's set to 10 minutes. It's been a while since I researched and set those little things like that that never get changed again. All that stuff gets saved so for the most part it's just throw a pack on, select the amp rate you want, and hit ENTER to start charging. Very simple.
One thing I'll warn you about is that some of the info in that thread is wrong, mostly by people who didn't know what they were doing. If you see something that conflicts with what I've told you ask me about it. I know some of these guys were complaining that it was broke when they just didn't know how to use the m/v setting for nimhs/nicads or were relying on Auto to do things. Some were questioning if they should tune the per cell voltage (there is a hidden menu feature to do this) because they were checking the voltage it said with their own volt meter and coming up with something different. What they don't realize is that most volt meters have a pretty wide error margin when it comes to anything below a volt. Others who tested this charger's readings with lab calibrated test equipment found the charger to be very percise without any tuning. In other words, don't mess with that hidden feature unless you know what you are doing and have a lab calibrated volt meter. Chances are what you having laying around won't be as accurate. I checked the voltage readings it was giving from packs with a few volt meters I have laying around and they matched it just about perfectly, but had they not I would not have adjusted the charger. It's tuned at the factory with lab level equipment.
The most confusing thing about this charger is learning the various menu levels on it. There are some for basic generic settings it will always use, while others get saved into the various cell type programs you can save. I'm not sure if it stores the generic stuff that never gets changed for the most part in each of those so you can set things different for a few things on each program, or if it always defaults to some of those settings based on what you have them set at in the user setup area (or whatever it's called). Point is if you load a program don't assume everything is set the way you want it. Check over in the user setup area and see if various things still match what you want like m/v settings and such. They might not change certain things when a program is loaded, but they will keep those things set to what you had them set at regardless of if power's turned off. I can't remember either way.
Feel free to ask about any of the settings on the charger, and as said you'll find moving through the menues a little confusing at first. Some places to go to require using the "-" key while others the "+", and yet others require you pressing enter.
One thing I can say about it is that some thought it was defective because their normal m/v setting for nimhs/nicads that they used on other chargers was cutting off the charge too soon. I know compared to my other nimh/nicad charger the Accucel wanted about a two digit increase in the m/v setting to avoid false peaks. Normaly I might go 5 m/v for nimhs on the other charger and 12 m/v for nicads, but on this charger I almost always use 7 m/v for nimhs, 14 m/v for nicads. Don't use the "Auto" function either where it picks the amp rate and m/v setting I think. If you want a dummy charger then you shouldn't have this one in the first place. I don't trust a charger making those choices for me.
The most confusing part for you is probably going to be a few other settings that get set once and never are changed again. One involves I think wait time before checking a pack and the other does something else. Can't remember which is what but I think one for me is set at 1 minute and the other at 10 I think. It might default to those. That's why you should read that thread at RCGroups as stuff like this gets touched on. Another confusing part is the lipo type cell voltage. I think for normal lipos it is set to 3.7V or something per cell, where as you would think it would be 4.2V because that's why the lipo will charge to. Just if you've got any questions drop them here. If you aren't sure about the lipo type don't try charging until you've got that all confirmed and set. I think another is how long the charger waits before checking the lipo for proper 3 count voltage. I think maybe that's the one that's set to 10 minutes. It's been a while since I researched and set those little things like that that never get changed again. All that stuff gets saved so for the most part it's just throw a pack on, select the amp rate you want, and hit ENTER to start charging. Very simple.
One thing I'll warn you about is that some of the info in that thread is wrong, mostly by people who didn't know what they were doing. If you see something that conflicts with what I've told you ask me about it. I know some of these guys were complaining that it was broke when they just didn't know how to use the m/v setting for nimhs/nicads or were relying on Auto to do things. Some were questioning if they should tune the per cell voltage (there is a hidden menu feature to do this) because they were checking the voltage it said with their own volt meter and coming up with something different. What they don't realize is that most volt meters have a pretty wide error margin when it comes to anything below a volt. Others who tested this charger's readings with lab calibrated test equipment found the charger to be very percise without any tuning. In other words, don't mess with that hidden feature unless you know what you are doing and have a lab calibrated volt meter. Chances are what you having laying around won't be as accurate. I checked the voltage readings it was giving from packs with a few volt meters I have laying around and they matched it just about perfectly, but had they not I would not have adjusted the charger. It's tuned at the factory with lab level equipment.
The most confusing thing about this charger is learning the various menu levels on it. There are some for basic generic settings it will always use, while others get saved into the various cell type programs you can save. I'm not sure if it stores the generic stuff that never gets changed for the most part in each of those so you can set things different for a few things on each program, or if it always defaults to some of those settings based on what you have them set at in the user setup area (or whatever it's called). Point is if you load a program don't assume everything is set the way you want it. Check over in the user setup area and see if various things still match what you want like m/v settings and such. They might not change certain things when a program is loaded, but they will keep those things set to what you had them set at regardless of if power's turned off. I can't remember either way.
Feel free to ask about any of the settings on the charger, and as said you'll find moving through the menues a little confusing at first. Some places to go to require using the "-" key while others the "+", and yet others require you pressing enter.
Critterhunter
New member
First, if the moderator is listening- I wonder if you could change the name of this thread to "Everything you NEVER wanted to know about batteries and chargers", or at least something more tuned to that because this thread obviously has gone way beyond Excal batteries. Somebody looking for this kind of info might never bother to check this thread because they own another machine.
Somebody and me were talking about this in a PM and I thought it might be of interest here...
This charger will do several different lipo types besides the standard lipo you've seen us discussing in this thread. I'm not sure (haven't checked in a while) what it calls the other chemistry types it will charge but I wanted to point out that those names might be different than what is more commonly used on the web. What I'm saying is that if there is a specific lipo type you might be interested in then chances are this charger will charge it, but you might have to search on the web to see that they are both the same type even if this charger calls it something different.
Currently there are probably at least 4 or 5 different variations out there in lipo type that have various pros and cons to them. Even if one of these is different than one of the ones this charger does there is a good chance that both types charge in the same manner, so you might be able to use this charger to do any new type that exists even if it's different in chemistry. Just make darn sure that the type on this charger is safe to use for whatever that type is you plan to use because charging a variation in lipo chemistry with the wrong method could prove a fire hazard.
Some of the reasons people might want to use a variation in lipo type might be for several reasons, and may or may not be related to metal detector use at all. Just throwing it out there for people. For instance, there are certain cells (LifePo and at least one or two others maybe) that are now sold in AA and other common battery cell types. So long as they have about the same cell voltage as your typical battery something like that could be used in various devices that hold a certain standard battery type. For instance, normal AA cells as an obvious example. By using the right cell size you can avoid having to solder plugs to something in order to get a battery to work.
I haven't really followed these emerging variations on lip chemistry all that close for the last year or two so I can't give that much in way of differences between them. From memory there are LifePo, A123, and at least two or three other types. Some come in standard cell types, others are still in a lipo package like the ones Kered and I are using in our Sovereigns. Some other differences are in terms of how fast you can charge them. For instance, I think A123 cells can be blast charged in like minutes if memory serves. I'm pretty sure those cells can also be punctured without risk or subjected to extremely high amp draws. I'm pretty sure the main selling point of those cells (besides coming in a metal case like regular batteries) was that they could be drained dead or at least much lower than typical lipos without suffering problems.
Although these cells come in a metal case I think at least at the time I looked into them they were an odd larger size meant for custom use in hand tools by the manufacturer who invented them. The main thing I didn't like about A123 cells at the time was that (again, from memory) they didn't charge to as high of voltage as a standard lipo. While that isn't important in various fields, in RC voltage equals max power the plane motor can deliver (faster, more torque).
Regardless, I remember some in the RC crowd loved these packs for various reasons including the ease of building custom packs (being in a hard case) and also the durability of the cells in case of a plane crash. That was never a concern for me as I've wrecked some planes pretty bad and even dented a few lipos but they still were fine after a careful watch for a few days.
Others I think at least come in standard cell sizes such as maybe LifePos, but I'm not sure if the per cell voltage of those is close to regular cells in that you could use them in place of your typical 1.5V AA cells.
Either way, I just wanted to point out that if there is some certain lipo type you want to use for something (not necessarily metal detector related even) then just because you don't see that name in the various types this charger will do doesn't mean they aren't the same, or can't be charged with one of the type modes that uses a similar charging process. As said once again, though, please research the various types if you are not sure before risking charging one.
For myself your "average" lipo as discussed in this thread (and pictures shown there of in Kered's link to his lipo build) have served me well both in RC and also in various other devices such as my Sovereign. Being in an aluminum type foil "bag" makes the weight savings as maximum as possible, even though these various battery types in metal cases still tend to be lighter than standard batteries. The weight of these packs is as light as it's going to get, they are capable of delivering very high amp rates these days if needed (not important in metal detectors), and a 1C or one hour or less charge time is perfectly healthy and fine for them. Heck, some now can be charged as fast as 2C and I think even 5C if you are really the impatient type (like 15 minutes or less).
That's never been an issue for me because even at 1C it only takes about an hour if the pack is completely dead (meaning drained down to the minimum 3V per cell...never drain lower). Often when I throw a lipo on my charger it's down in like twenty to thirty minutes depending on it's state of discharge. For me I've never charge any of these new cells faster than 1C even if they say they can handle it on the label.
In nimhs/nicads once in a great while I may charge them at 1C or even 2 or 3C if I'm in a real big hurry. That helps for say blast charging my plane radio's pack real quick to full charge if I've got to leave for the field in less than say a half hour. Here and there 1C or even higher charge rates isn't really going to hurt most nimhs/nicads, and as I've covered before it can actually be healthy for them by breaking down crystals causing resistance (less voltage) or less capacity. For the most part though they should be charged as slow as possible up to about 1/10th C. My typical charge rate for them is a 2 or 3 hour 1/2 to 1/3rd or so charge rate. That's not really being hard on them and even completely dead they'll be ready in two or three hours.
I've said this before- If you want a very light non-rechargeable to use in something where weight matters such as your camcorder then I highly recommend the Energizer Lithiums. Sure, they are expensive but they'll give you two to three times the run time while still weighing much less than your standard battery. I was lucky enough to be given a bunch of these in AAs and I use them in my detectors as emergency power when I don't have a rechargeable ready, as well as a few other things around the house. Next time your in the store pick up a pack of them and feel how light they are compared to regular AAs. They are safe to use in just about anything that takes that size cell because, while the voltage is slightly higher than a regular AA, it's not that much higher to risk damaging most devices.
The only bad thing about them (which is good in a sense) is that they hold the voltage very high to the very end much like regular lipos. A friend who uses them in his 6000 Pro XL says that while they do give him much longer run times, when they die they go quick and don't drop in voltage as much towards the end like a normal AA. For that reason he's checked his battery voltage on them with the 6000's meter before a hunt and thought they still had a lot of life left, only to have them die within an hour. That's due to the voltage being held very high to the very end of discharge. For that reason if using these don't assume based on your detector's battery meter that they are still hardly drained. They can go quick.
I think I'm going to have to do a little net surfing on some of my old sites like RCGroups as it's been a while since I've kept up to date on just what's new and exciting in battery technology. Often you'll find this stuff emerge in RC first as those tech heads are always looking for something new and better. I doubt much has changed in the last year or two but I need to refresh myself on even the battery types I knew about a year or two ago to see how they've held up in the field. When I've schooled myself properly and refreshed my memory on the variations out there I'll report back here with a quick tutorial on the pros and cons of the various types. Even if certain ones don't prove to be useful to the detector crowd (while others will), I'm sure some of you might fancy one or two types for some other device or project you have on hand. I'll also cross reference what types the Accucel 6 can safely charge and note if it was meant to do that type or whether it's a totally new variation that it's still able to safely handle.
Somebody and me were talking about this in a PM and I thought it might be of interest here...
This charger will do several different lipo types besides the standard lipo you've seen us discussing in this thread. I'm not sure (haven't checked in a while) what it calls the other chemistry types it will charge but I wanted to point out that those names might be different than what is more commonly used on the web. What I'm saying is that if there is a specific lipo type you might be interested in then chances are this charger will charge it, but you might have to search on the web to see that they are both the same type even if this charger calls it something different.
Currently there are probably at least 4 or 5 different variations out there in lipo type that have various pros and cons to them. Even if one of these is different than one of the ones this charger does there is a good chance that both types charge in the same manner, so you might be able to use this charger to do any new type that exists even if it's different in chemistry. Just make darn sure that the type on this charger is safe to use for whatever that type is you plan to use because charging a variation in lipo chemistry with the wrong method could prove a fire hazard.
Some of the reasons people might want to use a variation in lipo type might be for several reasons, and may or may not be related to metal detector use at all. Just throwing it out there for people. For instance, there are certain cells (LifePo and at least one or two others maybe) that are now sold in AA and other common battery cell types. So long as they have about the same cell voltage as your typical battery something like that could be used in various devices that hold a certain standard battery type. For instance, normal AA cells as an obvious example. By using the right cell size you can avoid having to solder plugs to something in order to get a battery to work.
I haven't really followed these emerging variations on lip chemistry all that close for the last year or two so I can't give that much in way of differences between them. From memory there are LifePo, A123, and at least two or three other types. Some come in standard cell types, others are still in a lipo package like the ones Kered and I are using in our Sovereigns. Some other differences are in terms of how fast you can charge them. For instance, I think A123 cells can be blast charged in like minutes if memory serves. I'm pretty sure those cells can also be punctured without risk or subjected to extremely high amp draws. I'm pretty sure the main selling point of those cells (besides coming in a metal case like regular batteries) was that they could be drained dead or at least much lower than typical lipos without suffering problems.
Although these cells come in a metal case I think at least at the time I looked into them they were an odd larger size meant for custom use in hand tools by the manufacturer who invented them. The main thing I didn't like about A123 cells at the time was that (again, from memory) they didn't charge to as high of voltage as a standard lipo. While that isn't important in various fields, in RC voltage equals max power the plane motor can deliver (faster, more torque).
Regardless, I remember some in the RC crowd loved these packs for various reasons including the ease of building custom packs (being in a hard case) and also the durability of the cells in case of a plane crash. That was never a concern for me as I've wrecked some planes pretty bad and even dented a few lipos but they still were fine after a careful watch for a few days.
Others I think at least come in standard cell sizes such as maybe LifePos, but I'm not sure if the per cell voltage of those is close to regular cells in that you could use them in place of your typical 1.5V AA cells.
Either way, I just wanted to point out that if there is some certain lipo type you want to use for something (not necessarily metal detector related even) then just because you don't see that name in the various types this charger will do doesn't mean they aren't the same, or can't be charged with one of the type modes that uses a similar charging process. As said once again, though, please research the various types if you are not sure before risking charging one.
For myself your "average" lipo as discussed in this thread (and pictures shown there of in Kered's link to his lipo build) have served me well both in RC and also in various other devices such as my Sovereign. Being in an aluminum type foil "bag" makes the weight savings as maximum as possible, even though these various battery types in metal cases still tend to be lighter than standard batteries. The weight of these packs is as light as it's going to get, they are capable of delivering very high amp rates these days if needed (not important in metal detectors), and a 1C or one hour or less charge time is perfectly healthy and fine for them. Heck, some now can be charged as fast as 2C and I think even 5C if you are really the impatient type (like 15 minutes or less).
That's never been an issue for me because even at 1C it only takes about an hour if the pack is completely dead (meaning drained down to the minimum 3V per cell...never drain lower). Often when I throw a lipo on my charger it's down in like twenty to thirty minutes depending on it's state of discharge. For me I've never charge any of these new cells faster than 1C even if they say they can handle it on the label.
In nimhs/nicads once in a great while I may charge them at 1C or even 2 or 3C if I'm in a real big hurry. That helps for say blast charging my plane radio's pack real quick to full charge if I've got to leave for the field in less than say a half hour. Here and there 1C or even higher charge rates isn't really going to hurt most nimhs/nicads, and as I've covered before it can actually be healthy for them by breaking down crystals causing resistance (less voltage) or less capacity. For the most part though they should be charged as slow as possible up to about 1/10th C. My typical charge rate for them is a 2 or 3 hour 1/2 to 1/3rd or so charge rate. That's not really being hard on them and even completely dead they'll be ready in two or three hours.
I've said this before- If you want a very light non-rechargeable to use in something where weight matters such as your camcorder then I highly recommend the Energizer Lithiums. Sure, they are expensive but they'll give you two to three times the run time while still weighing much less than your standard battery. I was lucky enough to be given a bunch of these in AAs and I use them in my detectors as emergency power when I don't have a rechargeable ready, as well as a few other things around the house. Next time your in the store pick up a pack of them and feel how light they are compared to regular AAs. They are safe to use in just about anything that takes that size cell because, while the voltage is slightly higher than a regular AA, it's not that much higher to risk damaging most devices.
The only bad thing about them (which is good in a sense) is that they hold the voltage very high to the very end much like regular lipos. A friend who uses them in his 6000 Pro XL says that while they do give him much longer run times, when they die they go quick and don't drop in voltage as much towards the end like a normal AA. For that reason he's checked his battery voltage on them with the 6000's meter before a hunt and thought they still had a lot of life left, only to have them die within an hour. That's due to the voltage being held very high to the very end of discharge. For that reason if using these don't assume based on your detector's battery meter that they are still hardly drained. They can go quick.
I think I'm going to have to do a little net surfing on some of my old sites like RCGroups as it's been a while since I've kept up to date on just what's new and exciting in battery technology. Often you'll find this stuff emerge in RC first as those tech heads are always looking for something new and better. I doubt much has changed in the last year or two but I need to refresh myself on even the battery types I knew about a year or two ago to see how they've held up in the field. When I've schooled myself properly and refreshed my memory on the variations out there I'll report back here with a quick tutorial on the pros and cons of the various types. Even if certain ones don't prove to be useful to the detector crowd (while others will), I'm sure some of you might fancy one or two types for some other device or project you have on hand. I'll also cross reference what types the Accucel 6 can safely charge and note if it was meant to do that type or whether it's a totally new variation that it's still able to safely handle.
Critter ,
OK OK !!!.....I SURRENDER !!!..... After reading all this , I am not feeling very inclined to set this thing up on my own ..... Expect a phone call !!..... It sounds easier to buy a house !!! ....
....Not knowing what I'm doing with this thing, I"m not even sure which of the comments on R.C will be right and which ones will be wrong .......??????.........I'll do more reading and then take it from there .....I'll try to get a handle ont his thing .....Thanks for spending so much time explaining .... It will take me a while to digest it all ......Jim
OK OK !!!.....I SURRENDER !!!..... After reading all this , I am not feeling very inclined to set this thing up on my own ..... Expect a phone call !!..... It sounds easier to buy a house !!! ....
....Not knowing what I'm doing with this thing, I"m not even sure which of the comments on R.C will be right and which ones will be wrong .......??????.........I'll do more reading and then take it from there .....I'll try to get a handle ont his thing .....Thanks for spending so much time explaining .... It will take me a while to digest it all ......JimCritterhunter
New member
I make it sound more complex than it is. I'm good at that, so don't get scared off. It's rather simple to set up. But feel free to call me when you get the thing and I'll tell you what- On the phone I'll power up my Accucel and that way we can both go through all the menu options and compare what yours might be defaulted to versus what I've set mine at. There's only a few settings that will need to be changed, and some of those only apply to nimhs/nicads and not lipos. Sorry if my heavy-handedness has got you a little scared about things. It isn't that way. You've got my # so give me a buzz when you get the charger and I'll walk you through everything as well as your first lipo charge with it. 
silvereagle
Member
so ok,what is the best all around charger to buy for the excal? and what was your # again?lol
I Dig Ya Dig
New member
So, i just order a Accucel 6, what power source do you use with it? Is there anything else i should buy to charge an Excalibur battery?
Critterhunter
New member
They sell like a $9 power supply on Hobby City's site. Kered or somebody probably has a link to it. I made my own power supply using a PC power supply. If you don't want to buy a power supply you can always just pop the hood on your car and charge batteries from there, or hitch it up to your cigarette lighter, though I don't recommend charging any batteries left unattended in a car for fire risk reasons. This charger will I think run on anything from like 9V to like 16V, but I suspect you won't find a cheaper power supply than the one on Hobby City. Look in the Community Resources (or whatever it's called) message forums on Hobby City and you'll find some threads on it and which power supplies off their site will work with it.
Critterhunter
New member
Best all around charger for the Excal? They don't get any better than the Accucel 6, and they for sure don't get any cheaper for around $25. You can't touch the features on this charger for anything less than about $150 from most companies. The only "better" charger would be the Accucel 8 (think it's called). It's got higher watt ability which means faster charge and discharge rates. The faster charge rates won't apply to metal detector batteries. You don't want to charge as fast as the Accucel 6 can on most batteries in most devices. The higher discharge ability of the Accucel 8 would make for faster drain downs on batteries you are cycling. The Accucel 6 has a 1 amp max discharge rate. That's good enough for most batteries but I don't really use that much anyway as I prefer the faster drainage using a car tail light bulb. I stick a pack on that thing and after the bulb goes out I'll let it sit like that for another 2 or 3 hours and you can be sure it's dead.
That's my only complaint with the Accucel. Let's say you drain a pack at 1 amp. On a 2000ma pack that should take two hours. Problem is the charger will lower the amp draw to something below .1 (that's point one amps) once the target voltage gets near what you set it at. I have mine set at the lowest drain down, .1 volts (point one volts). Once the voltage gets pretty low the charger will go to some very tiny amp draws to try to keep the voltage from sagging under load so it's keeping as true of a voltage reading as possible. I don't care about that, I just want the pack dead as a door knob. That's where a car light bulb works so much faster. I think typical amp draw of a car tail light bulb is around 1.5 amps (from memory). That's not really much higher than 1 amp but like I said it doesn't try to slow the amp draw near the end to keep the battery voltage stable and as true as possible. The only time I'll use the charger's discharge function is when I'm cycling a pack 5 or 6 times and can't be around to baby sit it and discharge with a light bulb then throw back on the charger. Since the charger will drain/charge up to 5 times automatically that's a time saver in certain respects, even if it'll drain much faster on a car tail light bulb.
Also, this charger has a maximum discharge wattage. What that means is that although it can drain at up to 1 amp that's based on volts X amps = Wattage. For that reason even if you set it to 1 amp discharge it may only be able to discharge at something like say .7 amps until the pack voltage drops low enough for the amp rate to increase. For that reason you might start out seeing only .6 amps or so when you picked 1 amp. Come back an hour later and now it says a full 1 amp (pack voltage dropped...lower voltage allows higher amps without exceeding max watts). Come back another hour later and now it's at 0.0 amps (lower than .1 amps). That's due to it trying to keep the voltage from sagging below what you set the target voltage at.
A quick away around this is to stop the charger and set the amp draw to say .5 amps. Once it hits 0.0 amps again kick it down to say .2 amps and re-start. It will drain faster this way because too high of an amp draw is causing the charger to drastically lower the amp rate in order to keep the voltage from sagging below what it really is. The charger way over compensates for too high of an amp draw once the pack gets low enough. By cutting the amp draw in half each time you stop it when it hits 0.0 amps you'll keep the voltage sagging from getting too much and thus the charger from over compensating. Keep cutting the amp draw in half and restart the charger until you get down to .1 amps. After that let it do it's 0.0 amps thing until the pack hits .1 volts. It might take as much as two or three hours for the charger to finish when it gets that slow. A car tail light bulb is so much faster.
That's my only complaint with the Accucel. Let's say you drain a pack at 1 amp. On a 2000ma pack that should take two hours. Problem is the charger will lower the amp draw to something below .1 (that's point one amps) once the target voltage gets near what you set it at. I have mine set at the lowest drain down, .1 volts (point one volts). Once the voltage gets pretty low the charger will go to some very tiny amp draws to try to keep the voltage from sagging under load so it's keeping as true of a voltage reading as possible. I don't care about that, I just want the pack dead as a door knob. That's where a car light bulb works so much faster. I think typical amp draw of a car tail light bulb is around 1.5 amps (from memory). That's not really much higher than 1 amp but like I said it doesn't try to slow the amp draw near the end to keep the battery voltage stable and as true as possible. The only time I'll use the charger's discharge function is when I'm cycling a pack 5 or 6 times and can't be around to baby sit it and discharge with a light bulb then throw back on the charger. Since the charger will drain/charge up to 5 times automatically that's a time saver in certain respects, even if it'll drain much faster on a car tail light bulb.
Also, this charger has a maximum discharge wattage. What that means is that although it can drain at up to 1 amp that's based on volts X amps = Wattage. For that reason even if you set it to 1 amp discharge it may only be able to discharge at something like say .7 amps until the pack voltage drops low enough for the amp rate to increase. For that reason you might start out seeing only .6 amps or so when you picked 1 amp. Come back an hour later and now it says a full 1 amp (pack voltage dropped...lower voltage allows higher amps without exceeding max watts). Come back another hour later and now it's at 0.0 amps (lower than .1 amps). That's due to it trying to keep the voltage from sagging below what you set the target voltage at.
A quick away around this is to stop the charger and set the amp draw to say .5 amps. Once it hits 0.0 amps again kick it down to say .2 amps and re-start. It will drain faster this way because too high of an amp draw is causing the charger to drastically lower the amp rate in order to keep the voltage from sagging below what it really is. The charger way over compensates for too high of an amp draw once the pack gets low enough. By cutting the amp draw in half each time you stop it when it hits 0.0 amps you'll keep the voltage sagging from getting too much and thus the charger from over compensating. Keep cutting the amp draw in half and restart the charger until you get down to .1 amps. After that let it do it's 0.0 amps thing until the pack hits .1 volts. It might take as much as two or three hours for the charger to finish when it gets that slow. A car tail light bulb is so much faster.
Critterhunter
New member
Just yesterday I was scrolling through the menu features of my Accucel 6 and refreshed my memory on things a bit. There are two features that get set and pretty much never need changed again. One is the wait time between charging/discharging packs. That's useful to help a pack cool down should you be charging it excessively fast. I keep that set at 1 minute as I'm never cooking packs in cycling like that. The other feature is how long the charger will wait to make sure the lipo voltage is matching up to what the cell count is. For that I've got 10 minutes set. I believe if you narrow that time down to something much less there are certain situations where a really drained pack (say slightly below 9V by accident) can cause the charger to mistake cell counts. For instance, say you've got a 3 cell lipo and set the charger for that cell count. The pack is a bit below 9V and had this check feature been set to say 1 minute it may check the voltage a minute down the road and say "Hey, I think that's a 2 cell pack", causing an error.
The charger has 4 or 5 lipo types in it's user setup menu. The one for normal lipos we are using in this thread is the one that says "lipo", which I think sets the cell voltage to something like 3.7 volts per cell (even though it will charge it to 4.2V, 3.7 is an average). The others listed have I think lower cell voltages, with the highest of those being one type (Lithium Ion?) at I think 3.6V.
Beyond that, set your m/v for nimhs at 7 and for nicads at 14. If you are charging super slow (like say 10 hours or more) then I'd lower both of those by two maybe.
There is a capacity cutoff and timer safety feature. I have both of those turned off as often a pack will hold more capacity then what it says on the label and you don't want it to stop right at that number. Same deal with the timer. Unless you know exactly what is going into the pack I wouldn't use those features. If you can't be around to watch it finish and want to use these then I'd set capacity at about 300ma above the label and the timer about an hour past when it should be done. That will insure that should the nimh or nicad miss peak threshold (due to too high of a m/v setting) then at least the charger will shut down when it hits the time or capacity limit. For lipos since there is no m/v setting and the charger pretty much does things on it's own there isn't really a need for those to me to be used. So long as you set the proper cell count (3 cell for most detector use), have the proper lipo type selected, and don't charge higher than 1C (1X Capacity, or say 1.4 amps for a 1450ma pack, .7 amps for a 750ma pack) there shouldn't be a problem.
On another topic, I've got a PM about how to know when the pack is done using the stock charger/battery for the Excal or Sovereign. The problem is that most of these "chargers" they give you with them don't indicate when the pack has peaked. Instead, they constantly trickle charge at I think .50 milliamps. If the pack is 1000ma then a completely dead pack would take 20 hours to charge. Problem is you don't know how discharged the pack is. It's a good idea once in a while like 3 or 4 times a year to drain the pack dead by hitching it up to say a car tail light bulb and letting it burn out. Once it goes dead let it sit for another 3 or 4 hours. Now you can pretty much do the math. Look on your wall "charger" and see what it's amp output is, which I think is .50 amps. Divide the capacity of the pack by that and you'll get the amount of time it will take to charge. However, chances are the pack will hold more than that, so I'd add another hour or two to that time. Even then you are probably shorting yourself, because it's not uncommon for a 1000ma pack to hold say 1400ma or more. If that's the case then obviously it would take 8 more hours to reach that capacity.
You can kind of figure your charge time on a battery that isn't dead based on how long you've used it. Kered will correct me if I'm wrong (don't remember for sure) but the amp draw of a Sovereign or Excal is somewhere around .50 to .60 milliamps. If that's the case (?) then that pretty much closely matches the output of the charger. Used for detector for ten hours? Then charge it ten hours, or add an hour or two to be sure.
Another trick to determine if the pack has peaked would be to hitch up a volt meter to the two output contacts on the battery that a power the detector on the Sovereign while the battery is charging. Note the voltage of the pack. Come back and check it in an hour. Is it higher? Then it's still charging. Check it in another hour. When the point comes when the voltage is the same or lower than it was an hour ago then the pack has peaked and so is now dropping in voltage. This is how chargers use a m/v setting to determine when a nimh or nicad pack has peaked. The voltage drop won't be much, like maybe 5 to 14 m/v per cell (based on cell type), but if it isn't climbing in an hour, has stayed the same, or has dropped then chances are it's peaked. Check it again in another half hour and if it's still not gone past it's highest point from say a few hours ago then for sure it's done.
The charger has 4 or 5 lipo types in it's user setup menu. The one for normal lipos we are using in this thread is the one that says "lipo", which I think sets the cell voltage to something like 3.7 volts per cell (even though it will charge it to 4.2V, 3.7 is an average). The others listed have I think lower cell voltages, with the highest of those being one type (Lithium Ion?) at I think 3.6V.
Beyond that, set your m/v for nimhs at 7 and for nicads at 14. If you are charging super slow (like say 10 hours or more) then I'd lower both of those by two maybe.
There is a capacity cutoff and timer safety feature. I have both of those turned off as often a pack will hold more capacity then what it says on the label and you don't want it to stop right at that number. Same deal with the timer. Unless you know exactly what is going into the pack I wouldn't use those features. If you can't be around to watch it finish and want to use these then I'd set capacity at about 300ma above the label and the timer about an hour past when it should be done. That will insure that should the nimh or nicad miss peak threshold (due to too high of a m/v setting) then at least the charger will shut down when it hits the time or capacity limit. For lipos since there is no m/v setting and the charger pretty much does things on it's own there isn't really a need for those to me to be used. So long as you set the proper cell count (3 cell for most detector use), have the proper lipo type selected, and don't charge higher than 1C (1X Capacity, or say 1.4 amps for a 1450ma pack, .7 amps for a 750ma pack) there shouldn't be a problem.
On another topic, I've got a PM about how to know when the pack is done using the stock charger/battery for the Excal or Sovereign. The problem is that most of these "chargers" they give you with them don't indicate when the pack has peaked. Instead, they constantly trickle charge at I think .50 milliamps. If the pack is 1000ma then a completely dead pack would take 20 hours to charge. Problem is you don't know how discharged the pack is. It's a good idea once in a while like 3 or 4 times a year to drain the pack dead by hitching it up to say a car tail light bulb and letting it burn out. Once it goes dead let it sit for another 3 or 4 hours. Now you can pretty much do the math. Look on your wall "charger" and see what it's amp output is, which I think is .50 amps. Divide the capacity of the pack by that and you'll get the amount of time it will take to charge. However, chances are the pack will hold more than that, so I'd add another hour or two to that time. Even then you are probably shorting yourself, because it's not uncommon for a 1000ma pack to hold say 1400ma or more. If that's the case then obviously it would take 8 more hours to reach that capacity.
You can kind of figure your charge time on a battery that isn't dead based on how long you've used it. Kered will correct me if I'm wrong (don't remember for sure) but the amp draw of a Sovereign or Excal is somewhere around .50 to .60 milliamps. If that's the case (?) then that pretty much closely matches the output of the charger. Used for detector for ten hours? Then charge it ten hours, or add an hour or two to be sure.
Another trick to determine if the pack has peaked would be to hitch up a volt meter to the two output contacts on the battery that a power the detector on the Sovereign while the battery is charging. Note the voltage of the pack. Come back and check it in an hour. Is it higher? Then it's still charging. Check it in another hour. When the point comes when the voltage is the same or lower than it was an hour ago then the pack has peaked and so is now dropping in voltage. This is how chargers use a m/v setting to determine when a nimh or nicad pack has peaked. The voltage drop won't be much, like maybe 5 to 14 m/v per cell (based on cell type), but if it isn't climbing in an hour, has stayed the same, or has dropped then chances are it's peaked. Check it again in another half hour and if it's still not gone past it's highest point from say a few hours ago then for sure it's done.
I Dig Ya Dig
New member
Thank you guys very much for the help.
So will a Toshiba Laptop 15V 5A work just as well as a 12v laptop charger. Does it really matter since the Accucel 6 ( Input Voltage: 11~17v ) has some range to play with? Also does Connector size: 6.3mm/3.0mm Barrel Tip sound right?
I'm sure I'll have some more questions coming soon
So will a Toshiba Laptop 15V 5A work just as well as a 12v laptop charger. Does it really matter since the Accucel 6 ( Input Voltage: 11~17v ) has some range to play with? Also does Connector size: 6.3mm/3.0mm Barrel Tip sound right?
I'm sure I'll have some more questions coming soon