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Excal Charger.
- Thread starter excalme
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Yea, that should work fine. The charger will come with a DC plug for it's input power. I can't remember what's on the other end of that but I've got alligator clips on mine to hitch it up to my car battery or my converted PC power supply, but you could put a jack on that end to match your plug for your power supply if you need to. Radio Shack will carry all that if need be.
I'm almost done cycling the Sub C cells for my solar motion light. I'm doing about 6 or 7 drains/charges and the draining is what is taking so much time because as said the charger drops to below .1 amps when the battery gets low to keep the voltage stable. This motion light came with a 5 cell Sub C pack rated at 1300ma and it never even held that after I exercised it. As a temporary fix I configured a 5 cell 1100ma nicad AA pack to fit in it and that lasted for a little while but those batteries were old and so never held true capacity.
I was getting sick of the motion light going dead after the 3rd or 4th light up so I finally did something about it. I headed up to the local Hobby Town (most people should have one near by as they are chain stores) and looked at their Sub C nicad packs. These packs are still popular among the RC car crowd because in general they can withstand very fast charge times (say 3 to 5 X C for like say a 15 minute charge time) and high amp draws, more so than your typical Nimh...although nimhs can pretty much put up with the same abuse these days. They had Sub C RC car packs from Venom (great company in nicad/nimh technology) that ranged from 1800ma to at least 4400ma or maybe 4600 or 4800. Either way, I can remember when about 3300ma was the top capacity of a Sub C nicad only 5 or 6 years ago, so that goes to show how even these "old" battery chemistry's are constantly improving.
Since the original solar light pack was only 1300 and never really held that, I opted for a 1800ma 6 cell Sub C nicad pack. I'll have to remove one cell to make it five and re-configure the cells into the proper configuration to fit into this light. This light was never intended to have it's battery replaced so it's not like they made it easy. These higher capacity Sub C cells would be something for you older Sovereign owners that have Sub C stock rechargeable batteries to keep in mind should your pack go bad. These 6 cell 1800ma packs were $10, so you'd need two of those to get 10 cells and then ditch two of them. Their 4400ma packs were I think $23 or so, so figure on about $45 for a 4400ma pack you can build with a little soldering. That's not a bad price considering that's over 4 times the run time of the stock rechargeable pack. If you know how to solder it wouldn't take any time at all to re-configure the pack as needed to fit in the old holder. These cells have solder tabs on them so it isn't much work to unsolder/re-solder the cells into proper order.
For the GT it uses Sub A cells. I didn't really look around but I'm sure they have Sub A nicads or nimhs above the lowly 1000ma of the stock pack. If you switch from one cell type to the other then I'd use an aftermarket charger. Otherwise if you plan to use the stock Minelab "charger" it would be a good idea to stick with the same battery type. The higher capacity of these cells won't matter in charging. It'll just take them longer. Divide the output of your wall charger into the capacity of the pack to figure out charge time.
Really if I was to re-do the guts of the stock rechargeable pack I probably wouldn't use Sub As again. They are just heavy and overkill for the low amp draws of the GT. I'd probably look into AAA cells so long as you can find them at say 1000ma or higher. The stock wall "charger" will work fine with them so long as you use the same battery type (nimh or nicad) and the same (10) number of cells.
Before I bothered with that I'd just try running 8 AA 2500ma or higher nimhs in the normal battery holder and see if you get decent run time out of them. Much less hassle. But, if I was going all out for a much cheaper price, much less weight, and longer run times I'd go straight to a 3 cell lipo that will fit into the AA holder with a quick plug mod as Kered has shown in the mods forum. I'm running a 750ma 3 cell Rhino Lipo in my GT and the weight savings doesn't get any better. Kered is using a 1450ma 3 cell lipo (all from Hobby City) and he's still saving weight while roughly doubling the run time over the stock rechargeable pack. The only reason I'd even consider rebuilding the stock rechargeable pack with Sub As or Cs again is that you can go to some really outrageous capacities and run your Sovereign for hours on end before needing a re-charge. A 4400ma Sub C would run your machine I would bet about 80 or 90 hours before recharge. Price wise the lipos are much cheaper from Hobby City at around $8 a pack. Throw in another $25 for the Accucel 6 charger and you are still saving money over buying a lowly 1000ma replacement pack for your Sovereign from elsewhere.
Tomorrow I'll probably be listing the increased capacity of these Sub C cells with the 6 or 7 cycles I did to them. These Nicads are high rate charge/discharge since they were meant for RC. Venom recommends 3 amps (that's about 2XC) for a long healthy life. 4 amps for quicker charge times but slightly reduced battery life. Think about it. Either one of these charge rates is well less than an hour, or about a half hour or less. Pretty outstanding. I don't like to go above 1C unless I'm in a real rush so I'm cycling these cells at 1.8 amps charge and .5 amps discharge to excercise them.
Some lessor cells might not be able to hold up to even 1C charge times. In particular, if the cells were say 800ma or say AAA or AA nicads then 1C might be pushing it. Some cells aren't built to hold up to high charge and drain rates. That's also why if you plan to cycle say AAA cells I wouldn't drain those using a car light bulb as the amp draw might make them hot. Something like .5 amps might be more realistic. Whether charging or discharging a pack try to put your hand on it here and there and see if it's getting really warm or hot. Luke warm is OK but anything above that is pushing the cells. Also, keep in mind that we are talking nimhs/nicads. Lipos should never be charged at anything higher than 1C as a general rule of thumb.
I'm almost done cycling the Sub C cells for my solar motion light. I'm doing about 6 or 7 drains/charges and the draining is what is taking so much time because as said the charger drops to below .1 amps when the battery gets low to keep the voltage stable. This motion light came with a 5 cell Sub C pack rated at 1300ma and it never even held that after I exercised it. As a temporary fix I configured a 5 cell 1100ma nicad AA pack to fit in it and that lasted for a little while but those batteries were old and so never held true capacity.
I was getting sick of the motion light going dead after the 3rd or 4th light up so I finally did something about it. I headed up to the local Hobby Town (most people should have one near by as they are chain stores) and looked at their Sub C nicad packs. These packs are still popular among the RC car crowd because in general they can withstand very fast charge times (say 3 to 5 X C for like say a 15 minute charge time) and high amp draws, more so than your typical Nimh...although nimhs can pretty much put up with the same abuse these days. They had Sub C RC car packs from Venom (great company in nicad/nimh technology) that ranged from 1800ma to at least 4400ma or maybe 4600 or 4800. Either way, I can remember when about 3300ma was the top capacity of a Sub C nicad only 5 or 6 years ago, so that goes to show how even these "old" battery chemistry's are constantly improving.
Since the original solar light pack was only 1300 and never really held that, I opted for a 1800ma 6 cell Sub C nicad pack. I'll have to remove one cell to make it five and re-configure the cells into the proper configuration to fit into this light. This light was never intended to have it's battery replaced so it's not like they made it easy. These higher capacity Sub C cells would be something for you older Sovereign owners that have Sub C stock rechargeable batteries to keep in mind should your pack go bad. These 6 cell 1800ma packs were $10, so you'd need two of those to get 10 cells and then ditch two of them. Their 4400ma packs were I think $23 or so, so figure on about $45 for a 4400ma pack you can build with a little soldering. That's not a bad price considering that's over 4 times the run time of the stock rechargeable pack. If you know how to solder it wouldn't take any time at all to re-configure the pack as needed to fit in the old holder. These cells have solder tabs on them so it isn't much work to unsolder/re-solder the cells into proper order.
For the GT it uses Sub A cells. I didn't really look around but I'm sure they have Sub A nicads or nimhs above the lowly 1000ma of the stock pack. If you switch from one cell type to the other then I'd use an aftermarket charger. Otherwise if you plan to use the stock Minelab "charger" it would be a good idea to stick with the same battery type. The higher capacity of these cells won't matter in charging. It'll just take them longer. Divide the output of your wall charger into the capacity of the pack to figure out charge time.
Really if I was to re-do the guts of the stock rechargeable pack I probably wouldn't use Sub As again. They are just heavy and overkill for the low amp draws of the GT. I'd probably look into AAA cells so long as you can find them at say 1000ma or higher. The stock wall "charger" will work fine with them so long as you use the same battery type (nimh or nicad) and the same (10) number of cells.
Before I bothered with that I'd just try running 8 AA 2500ma or higher nimhs in the normal battery holder and see if you get decent run time out of them. Much less hassle. But, if I was going all out for a much cheaper price, much less weight, and longer run times I'd go straight to a 3 cell lipo that will fit into the AA holder with a quick plug mod as Kered has shown in the mods forum. I'm running a 750ma 3 cell Rhino Lipo in my GT and the weight savings doesn't get any better. Kered is using a 1450ma 3 cell lipo (all from Hobby City) and he's still saving weight while roughly doubling the run time over the stock rechargeable pack. The only reason I'd even consider rebuilding the stock rechargeable pack with Sub As or Cs again is that you can go to some really outrageous capacities and run your Sovereign for hours on end before needing a re-charge. A 4400ma Sub C would run your machine I would bet about 80 or 90 hours before recharge. Price wise the lipos are much cheaper from Hobby City at around $8 a pack. Throw in another $25 for the Accucel 6 charger and you are still saving money over buying a lowly 1000ma replacement pack for your Sovereign from elsewhere.
Tomorrow I'll probably be listing the increased capacity of these Sub C cells with the 6 or 7 cycles I did to them. These Nicads are high rate charge/discharge since they were meant for RC. Venom recommends 3 amps (that's about 2XC) for a long healthy life. 4 amps for quicker charge times but slightly reduced battery life. Think about it. Either one of these charge rates is well less than an hour, or about a half hour or less. Pretty outstanding. I don't like to go above 1C unless I'm in a real rush so I'm cycling these cells at 1.8 amps charge and .5 amps discharge to excercise them.
Some lessor cells might not be able to hold up to even 1C charge times. In particular, if the cells were say 800ma or say AAA or AA nicads then 1C might be pushing it. Some cells aren't built to hold up to high charge and drain rates. That's also why if you plan to cycle say AAA cells I wouldn't drain those using a car light bulb as the amp draw might make them hot. Something like .5 amps might be more realistic. Whether charging or discharging a pack try to put your hand on it here and there and see if it's getting really warm or hot. Luke warm is OK but anything above that is pushing the cells. Also, keep in mind that we are talking nimhs/nicads. Lipos should never be charged at anything higher than 1C as a general rule of thumb.
Critterhunter
New member
I just ran into the low battery alarm on my 750ma Rhino. I didn't use a stop watch but kept an eye on the time I started and stopped hunting, then also subtracting about a half hour for breaks during those two hunts. Both hunts were roughly 5 hours (minus breaks) and so I'm at least getting 10 hours and perhaps about 11 before hitting the low battery alarm. I would have liked a little more....like about 15 or 16 hours, but 10 to 11 hours should cover me for two average length hunts (roughly 5 hours a piece) before needing a re-charge. Since I carry a spare Rhino with me it's not a big issue, either. I guess since weight savings was my primary goal I'm riding the edge in terms of what I'm happy with in run time while maxing out the weight savings, so I guess I'm happy with what I've got. Truth be known I would always re-charge a pack after my second decent length hunt regardless of how much run time it gives me. I just don't like to get out for one hunt and then have to swap packs half way through the next one. Two hunts and then a re-charge is my normal routine, but it would be nice to get 3 or 4 hunts using the size lipo you used before having to think about that. Still, I am a little lighter with my pack so I'll settle for that.
I'm going to time my next lipo run to confirm these numbers and will post a more precise run time next time, but I'm sure it's well past 10 hours. I also need to see how much capacity gets put back into this pack as dividing that by 10 should give me an idea of the amp draw of the GT without having to break out my amp meter. I'll post that as well.
I'm going to time my next lipo run to confirm these numbers and will post a more precise run time next time, but I'm sure it's well past 10 hours. I also need to see how much capacity gets put back into this pack as dividing that by 10 should give me an idea of the amp draw of the GT without having to break out my amp meter. I'll post that as well.
the GT consumption will be handy as i haven't checked it, just asumed similar to the XS, it will help me keep an eye on the mod i did so i don't over disharge it in case the alarm doesn't work for some reason.
Off to the beach in half an hour, got to make the most of the big tides, the gold i got this morning i had to give back as the owner described it perfectly, my was he happy
Off to the beach in half an hour, got to make the most of the big tides, the gold i got this morning i had to give back as the owner described it perfectly, my was he happy
Critterhunter
New member
I've got some info on the 750ma Rhino that ran about about 10 hours before hitting low battery alarm, maybe closer to 11 hours but I'm going to low ball it's run time for now until I time a few more runs on these packs. Recharging the lipo put 857ma back into it. .857 divided by 10 hours equals 85.7 milliamps (.0857). That's roughly I think close to the 45ma you said your XS was using. Really it's probably going to be less than 85.7 millamps because like I said I'm low balling the run time I think. 857 millamps divided by 11 hours would be 77.9 milliamps (.0779). Perhaps the GT is a little more power hungry than prior Sovereign models? I really should just hook up my amp meter to the thing and get an accurate reading. Still, if I time the run time precisely that will give me a better average of power consumption as I'm sure it goes up and down based on hitting targets and sounding off and such.
Critterhunter
New member
I've got some numbers for the new Sub C 1800ma Venom Nicads I've been cycling for my motion light that is solar charged. 14 m/v Threshold Setting. Here goes...
1.8 Amps Charge (roughly 1C or about a one hour charge time) and 1 Amp Discharge.
First charge number is pointless as the pack isn't all the way dead. (Always charge a new pack first and then discharge it.)
First Discharge 1719 MA
#2 Cycle: C 1981, D 1778
#3 Cycle: C 2028, D 1782
Next 4 cycles I kept the charge rate at 1.8 Amps but lowered the Discharge to .5 (half an amp).
#4 Cycle: C (Forgot To Record This #), D1813
#5 Cycle: C 2061, D 1815
#6 Cycle: C 2110, D 1807
#7 Cycle: C 2094, D 1814
As you can see, by about the 6th cycle we've sort of hit a wall in increased capacity in terms of discharge numbers. My normal routine is to go at least one more cycle after that to see if things will start improving again. Cycle #7 did start to increase discharged capacity a bit again but for the most part it looks like things have leveled out. I would suggest to exercise any new pack before using it at least 5 or 6 times and then not if it's capacity is still increasing. If it is then continue, but if things look flat for at least a few cycles (#5 & 6 or say #6 and 7) then there probably isn't any point to continuing. As you can see from cycles #2 and 3 there wasn't much improvement (only by 4) of the discharge numbers, yet after that things started swinging up in discharged capacity a decent amount. That's why I would say to at least go 5 or 6 cycles and compare the last two to see if it's still showing any kind of improvement. If it is then continue cycling.
It's more important I feel to pay attention to the discharged capacity than the charged capacity in terms of how progress is being made. On the other hand, if you are cycling the pack dead faster by using something like a car tail light bulb then using the charged capacity to note improvement is perfectly fine. At least pick one or the other to chart the progress being made.
The improvement in discharged capacity from the first cycle to the last shows about a 100ma improvement. That's fairly good. However, I must say these 1800ma Venom packs are the first I've ever seen to pretty much match the listed capacity for them. More often than not I find good cells will hold about 300 to 400ma more capacity than what it says on the label. I suspect Venom is very tight in their specifications as to the capacity matching what's on the label. That would make sense since they sell multiple Sub C pack sizes from I think 1200ma to as high as 4600 or 4800ma with many in between. If customers found out a 1800ma pack held close to say 2400ma then they'd soon spread the word and not spend the extra cash for the next size up in capacity they want. In terms of nicad/nimh (but in particular nicad) technology Venom is a legend in the RC car world. They build packs that can withstand 3 or 4C charge times (roughly 15 minutes) and probably even higher. They suggest on the label that charging at roughly 2 or 3X C won't shorten the life of the packs, where as most nimhs/nicads are probably being shortened in life if you go 1C or higher.
So there it is. Cycling even new packs can improve capacity and thus run time. I would recommend you do this 2 or 3 times a year with any nimhs or nicads. Most believe lipos don't and shouldn't be exercised in this fashion except when brand new, and always remember to never drain a lipo below 3V per cell (9V on a 3 cell series pack). Also use a charger meant to charge lipos so it doesn't charge them past 12.6V. Many in the RC world believe conditioning a new lipo by cycling it at low charge (like 1/4th C) and discharge rates (1 amp say) will not only increase the capacity of the pack but also condition it to hold up to higher amp draws. That's important when you are talking about plane motors that can draw 40 to 80 amps, but not as important in detectors where the amp draw is very low. If anything it's still worth doing in the hopes of increasing pack capacity and possible life of the lipo.
Now I just have to break apart this 6 cell pack and re-solder/configure it into a 5 cell that will fit inside the solar light. Also, note that the pack is currently in it's discharged state. That's sort of important when building packs because should you short a cell or two fully charged it's going to get red hot real quick. At least in it's mostly dead state being discharged I'm not as apt to burn myself if I accidently short one of the solder tabs while re-configuring it. I've done that with 3300ma nimh Sub Cs in the past and it only takes a split second to feel like you are holding an arc welder. Once the pack is re-built I'll once again full charge it and then install into the solor motion light.
1.8 Amps Charge (roughly 1C or about a one hour charge time) and 1 Amp Discharge.
First charge number is pointless as the pack isn't all the way dead. (Always charge a new pack first and then discharge it.)
First Discharge 1719 MA
#2 Cycle: C 1981, D 1778
#3 Cycle: C 2028, D 1782
Next 4 cycles I kept the charge rate at 1.8 Amps but lowered the Discharge to .5 (half an amp).
#4 Cycle: C (Forgot To Record This #), D1813
#5 Cycle: C 2061, D 1815
#6 Cycle: C 2110, D 1807
#7 Cycle: C 2094, D 1814
As you can see, by about the 6th cycle we've sort of hit a wall in increased capacity in terms of discharge numbers. My normal routine is to go at least one more cycle after that to see if things will start improving again. Cycle #7 did start to increase discharged capacity a bit again but for the most part it looks like things have leveled out. I would suggest to exercise any new pack before using it at least 5 or 6 times and then not if it's capacity is still increasing. If it is then continue, but if things look flat for at least a few cycles (#5 & 6 or say #6 and 7) then there probably isn't any point to continuing. As you can see from cycles #2 and 3 there wasn't much improvement (only by 4) of the discharge numbers, yet after that things started swinging up in discharged capacity a decent amount. That's why I would say to at least go 5 or 6 cycles and compare the last two to see if it's still showing any kind of improvement. If it is then continue cycling.
It's more important I feel to pay attention to the discharged capacity than the charged capacity in terms of how progress is being made. On the other hand, if you are cycling the pack dead faster by using something like a car tail light bulb then using the charged capacity to note improvement is perfectly fine. At least pick one or the other to chart the progress being made.
The improvement in discharged capacity from the first cycle to the last shows about a 100ma improvement. That's fairly good. However, I must say these 1800ma Venom packs are the first I've ever seen to pretty much match the listed capacity for them. More often than not I find good cells will hold about 300 to 400ma more capacity than what it says on the label. I suspect Venom is very tight in their specifications as to the capacity matching what's on the label. That would make sense since they sell multiple Sub C pack sizes from I think 1200ma to as high as 4600 or 4800ma with many in between. If customers found out a 1800ma pack held close to say 2400ma then they'd soon spread the word and not spend the extra cash for the next size up in capacity they want. In terms of nicad/nimh (but in particular nicad) technology Venom is a legend in the RC car world. They build packs that can withstand 3 or 4C charge times (roughly 15 minutes) and probably even higher. They suggest on the label that charging at roughly 2 or 3X C won't shorten the life of the packs, where as most nimhs/nicads are probably being shortened in life if you go 1C or higher.
So there it is. Cycling even new packs can improve capacity and thus run time. I would recommend you do this 2 or 3 times a year with any nimhs or nicads. Most believe lipos don't and shouldn't be exercised in this fashion except when brand new, and always remember to never drain a lipo below 3V per cell (9V on a 3 cell series pack). Also use a charger meant to charge lipos so it doesn't charge them past 12.6V. Many in the RC world believe conditioning a new lipo by cycling it at low charge (like 1/4th C) and discharge rates (1 amp say) will not only increase the capacity of the pack but also condition it to hold up to higher amp draws. That's important when you are talking about plane motors that can draw 40 to 80 amps, but not as important in detectors where the amp draw is very low. If anything it's still worth doing in the hopes of increasing pack capacity and possible life of the lipo.
Now I just have to break apart this 6 cell pack and re-solder/configure it into a 5 cell that will fit inside the solar light. Also, note that the pack is currently in it's discharged state. That's sort of important when building packs because should you short a cell or two fully charged it's going to get red hot real quick. At least in it's mostly dead state being discharged I'm not as apt to burn myself if I accidently short one of the solder tabs while re-configuring it. I've done that with 3300ma nimh Sub Cs in the past and it only takes a split second to feel like you are holding an arc welder. Once the pack is re-built I'll once again full charge it and then install into the solor motion light.
Critterhunter
New member
Just linking a few more threads to this one where scattered Accucel 6 and battery info has been placed.
Still nobody willing to change the name of this thread to BATTERY/CHARGER INFO FOR ALL MACHINES and making it a stickie? Come on, that would take like 5 seconds to do!
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1296535
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1294683
Still nobody willing to change the name of this thread to BATTERY/CHARGER INFO FOR ALL MACHINES and making it a stickie? Come on, that would take like 5 seconds to do!
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1296535
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1294683
Critterhunter
New member
Just got this PM...
"Hi, I was looking for some advice.
My old Explorer XS rechargeable 9.6V 1500 mAh battery only holds 3 hrs charge.
Rather than using disposable AA batteries, I was going to go to 8xAA rechargeables, and was going to order Sanyo Enelope 2000mA NIMHs or Tenergy 2500 mA NIMHs.
The 8xAA cartridge is labeled "use Alkaline 1.5V AA".
Do you know if the 2000 - 2500 mA is safe, and are the sizes of the rechargeable cells equal to alkalines so that they will fit in the cartridge?
I really appreciate your help!"
Since your the second person to ask me about the Enelopes, I figured I should answer this here. I haven't really read up on those cells but have heard that they hold their charge longer than your average nimh on the shelf. However, it's important to note that many nimhs like nicads these days are much better at holding their charge for long periods of time while sitting. For that reason it's more important to just go with the highest capacity AA cells you can find, like those Tenergy 2500s. The batteries should fit with no problem, as nimh or nicad AA cells are standard AA size like any other battery.
As far as the "safe" thing goes, higher capacity cells do not alter what the detector "sees" in terms of power. It only means longer run time, which is always a good thing. The "1.2V" that nimhs and nicads is labeled at is more of an average than actual pack voltage. Often a good capacity/quality cell will hold higher voltage than this. Some of my 8AA rechargeable nimhs and nicads hold well above 1.2V per cell and in certain devices will hold a voltage well above that all day long. I have some plane RC radios that constantly display voltage on the computer screen because a low battery resulting in loss of plane control would not be a fun thing in the air. From memory my 2500ma Energizer 8 cell AA nimh pack holds well above 11V for most of the day when flying, but I peak the pack before heading out to fly for the day. A freshly peaked pack of good quality should also do the same in most detectors, since the amp draw is very low.
Regardless of how good quality of a pack you buy, I would always peak it right before use. That's less important on your Explorer, which I think derives a lower needed input voltage than say my Sovereign. The Sovereign's voltage regulator needs something roughly above 10.5V to run, so it's more critical to peak a pack within a day of use if only running 8 nimhs or nicads in one of those. The standard Sovereign rechargeable pack from Minelab has 10 batteries in it to beef the voltage up for this reason, and so makes it less critical to peak that pack up before use. On the other hand, the regular Sovereign battery holder uses 8 AAs, and so that's why a Sovereign user should peak 8 regular AA nimhs if they plan to use them that day in the regular battery holder.
One other thing- A high capacity (say 2500ma or higher) nimh cell will often have much longer run times that a store bought regular shelf battery. For that reason even if the non-rechargeable battery pack has a higher starting voltage, it will soon have a lower source voltage than a good high capacity/quality nimh back during it's discharge with use.
"Hi, I was looking for some advice.
My old Explorer XS rechargeable 9.6V 1500 mAh battery only holds 3 hrs charge.
Rather than using disposable AA batteries, I was going to go to 8xAA rechargeables, and was going to order Sanyo Enelope 2000mA NIMHs or Tenergy 2500 mA NIMHs.
The 8xAA cartridge is labeled "use Alkaline 1.5V AA".
Do you know if the 2000 - 2500 mA is safe, and are the sizes of the rechargeable cells equal to alkalines so that they will fit in the cartridge?
I really appreciate your help!"
Since your the second person to ask me about the Enelopes, I figured I should answer this here. I haven't really read up on those cells but have heard that they hold their charge longer than your average nimh on the shelf. However, it's important to note that many nimhs like nicads these days are much better at holding their charge for long periods of time while sitting. For that reason it's more important to just go with the highest capacity AA cells you can find, like those Tenergy 2500s. The batteries should fit with no problem, as nimh or nicad AA cells are standard AA size like any other battery.
As far as the "safe" thing goes, higher capacity cells do not alter what the detector "sees" in terms of power. It only means longer run time, which is always a good thing. The "1.2V" that nimhs and nicads is labeled at is more of an average than actual pack voltage. Often a good capacity/quality cell will hold higher voltage than this. Some of my 8AA rechargeable nimhs and nicads hold well above 1.2V per cell and in certain devices will hold a voltage well above that all day long. I have some plane RC radios that constantly display voltage on the computer screen because a low battery resulting in loss of plane control would not be a fun thing in the air. From memory my 2500ma Energizer 8 cell AA nimh pack holds well above 11V for most of the day when flying, but I peak the pack before heading out to fly for the day. A freshly peaked pack of good quality should also do the same in most detectors, since the amp draw is very low.
Regardless of how good quality of a pack you buy, I would always peak it right before use. That's less important on your Explorer, which I think derives a lower needed input voltage than say my Sovereign. The Sovereign's voltage regulator needs something roughly above 10.5V to run, so it's more critical to peak a pack within a day of use if only running 8 nimhs or nicads in one of those. The standard Sovereign rechargeable pack from Minelab has 10 batteries in it to beef the voltage up for this reason, and so makes it less critical to peak that pack up before use. On the other hand, the regular Sovereign battery holder uses 8 AAs, and so that's why a Sovereign user should peak 8 regular AA nimhs if they plan to use them that day in the regular battery holder.
One other thing- A high capacity (say 2500ma or higher) nimh cell will often have much longer run times that a store bought regular shelf battery. For that reason even if the non-rechargeable battery pack has a higher starting voltage, it will soon have a lower source voltage than a good high capacity/quality nimh back during it's discharge with use.
I have used Eneloops in both my E Trac and my Sovereign to make sure I had a backup battery source .....They claim that the Eneloops will hold a charge longer than other batteries .....What I have found is just what Critter is saying ....Make sure you charge the batteries just before use for a more full charge ..... What I find with Eneloops is that they will drop down in power initially , but the secondary lower voltage will last for a LONGER time .... I have the battery gauge on my E Trac and it goes from 4 marks to 3 marks to 2 marks , but it will hold at 2 marks and continue to search for quite a while at 2 marks ...... Not sure how the other companies batteries handle the power use .... I have not used the Eneloops for the length of a charge but I'm sure that they will NOT last as long as they do in the E Trac as the E Trac has a low battery cutoff that is set lower than the Sovereign .... I charged my Eneloops to full charge , and they sat for about a month , and when I put them in my Sovereign , the low battery cuttoff kicked in after about an hours use .....so make sure you give them a full charge JUST BEFORE you go out to hunt .....Jim
Critterhunter
New member
Also, that old Explorer pack of yours could probably have some new life breathed into it. Hitch it up to a car tail light bulb and let it drain dead, then leave it hitched up to the bulb for another hour or two to make sure all the cells are flat. Hook it up to a good charger (like the Accucel) and blast charge it at 1C. Better yet, blast charge it like at 3 to 5 amps, but only for maybe 5 or 10 minutes because that's way too high (might explode), but it will for sure break down any crystals that 1C (1.5 amps) wouldn't. That will break down any crystals that have formed in it. Drain again dead, then charge at say .7 amps. Drain/charge at that like 4 more times, then drain it one more time and then charge it real nice and slow at say about .2 or .3 amps. I bet it will hold more capacity after all that.
You can probably recover it with your stock charger by just draining it dead several times with a car tail light bulb and then re-charging on the stock charger, but darn if that won't take forever, and if any crystals have built up in the pack you don't have high enough charge rates to break them down.
You can probably recover it with your stock charger by just draining it dead several times with a car tail light bulb and then re-charging on the stock charger, but darn if that won't take forever, and if any crystals have built up in the pack you don't have high enough charge rates to break them down.
Here's one for you battery guru's ......
I just cut the adapter off of my E Trac charger ( don't worry , I left enough lead to splice it back ) .....I found the the polarity is setup so that the middle of the barrel adapter is ( + ) or positive , and the outside of the barrel is ( - ) or negative ........When I check the battery on the area of the battery that goes to the detector , I get a reading , but when I plug the barrel adapter into the "input' side of the battery , I don't get a reading ...Is there some kind of device that only allows current to go INTO the battery and not come OUT OF the battery ..... I'm a Plumber and in Plumbing , a valve that will only allow water to go in one direction is called a "check " valve .....Is this the same principle in these batteries ? ......Thanks Jim
I just cut the adapter off of my E Trac charger ( don't worry , I left enough lead to splice it back ) .....I found the the polarity is setup so that the middle of the barrel adapter is ( + ) or positive , and the outside of the barrel is ( - ) or negative ........When I check the battery on the area of the battery that goes to the detector , I get a reading , but when I plug the barrel adapter into the "input' side of the battery , I don't get a reading ...Is there some kind of device that only allows current to go INTO the battery and not come OUT OF the battery ..... I'm a Plumber and in Plumbing , a valve that will only allow water to go in one direction is called a "check " valve .....Is this the same principle in these batteries ? ......Thanks Jim
Critterhunter
New member
That's called a diode in electronics. They only allow current to flow one way. On my GT's stock rechargable pack it features a little charge port that contains a charging circuit of some type. When I checked it there with a volt meter I was getting way less voltage than the pack showed at the main battery terminals that make contact with the GT. Results? I charge the stock pack via those two battery leads via alligator clips. Still, I've never used this pack since I went lipo. Just no point in going to something heavy as a brick when I've got batteries light as a feather.
Critterhunter
New member
Yes, that's normal. If a pack is say 12V the charger has to feed it current at a higher voltage in order for the battery to charge. Once the charger is done charging it and the pack settles for an hour or so the voltage will drop. In fact, as soon as it's off the charger if you were to check it with a volt meter you would see the voltage isn't as high as it was on the charger. Now, lipos work different. You should never see the pack voltage above 12.6V on a 3 cell pack, or 4.2V per cell. If that's going on stop it right away because something must be wrong with the charger.
Incidentally, to see the individual cell voltages of a lipo while it's charging hit the "+" key. To go back to the regular charge screen hit minus. To see other settings while a lipo or nimh/nicad is charging hit the "-" key and keep hitting that to see others. To go back to the main charging screen just don't hit any keys for a few seconds. The only screen that will stay until you press "-" to go back to the main charging screen is the individual cell voltage for lipos. Again, hitting that key while charging nimhs or nicads will not show separate cell voltages, since nimhs and nicads are not hooked up in parallel via the balancing plug of a lipo so the charger can monitor them.
Incidentally, to see the individual cell voltages of a lipo while it's charging hit the "+" key. To go back to the regular charge screen hit minus. To see other settings while a lipo or nimh/nicad is charging hit the "-" key and keep hitting that to see others. To go back to the main charging screen just don't hit any keys for a few seconds. The only screen that will stay until you press "-" to go back to the main charging screen is the individual cell voltage for lipos. Again, hitting that key while charging nimhs or nicads will not show separate cell voltages, since nimhs and nicads are not hooked up in parallel via the balancing plug of a lipo so the charger can monitor them.
I tried to charge my E Trac battery using the little barrel connection and not the wooden setup ....I was charging at .5 amps with my Accucell ....I was in the Nimh progam ......I got a " Connection Break " or something like that ....It would not charge ....Is that the diode kicking my butt on this battery ? .....Am I correct in assuming that if I want to charge at .5 amp ,I have to buld the WOODEN GIZMO and charge from the end of the battery that is the ouput to the detector ? . ... And the plot thickens !!......To be continued !!........
......Jim
BTW ...I know somebody mentioned the "Connection Break" coming up. and I skimmed the entire Battery Charger thread and could not find it ......My brain is putty from all this stuff !!....Jim
......JimBTW ...I know somebody mentioned the "Connection Break" coming up. and I skimmed the entire Battery Charger thread and could not find it ......My brain is putty from all this stuff !!....Jim
Yes it sounds like the thermistor(not diode) is cutting in as a 0.5amp charge is 5 times what the stock charger puts out. you could lower the charge rate 0.1 amp at a time to find the limit but then your extending the charge time, the Sovgt and excalibur do the same although not quite as low. Charging directly through the pins seems to bypass this thermistor(thermal cutoff) to some degree.( I think i mentioned it in the email)
I better patent the Wooden gismo thing and start a production line before its too late
I think the Etrac battery has both a thermister and a diode connected to the charge pin hole, 1, the diode, to stop reverse polarity or discharge if you try a non stock charger or unplug the charger with it still connected to the battery and 2, the thermistor to prevent a short circuit or too heavy a discharge rate should something go wrong.
The Sov gt is probably the same but i haven't openned it, both the Excalibur and Sov XS2apro batteries only have the thermistor.
I better patent the Wooden gismo thing and start a production line before its too late
I think the Etrac battery has both a thermister and a diode connected to the charge pin hole, 1, the diode, to stop reverse polarity or discharge if you try a non stock charger or unplug the charger with it still connected to the battery and 2, the thermistor to prevent a short circuit or too heavy a discharge rate should something go wrong.
The Sov gt is probably the same but i haven't openned it, both the Excalibur and Sov XS2apro batteries only have the thermistor.
Kered ,
What you are saying is peefectly in line with what I am experiencing ....First I could not get ANY reading from that little barrel connection on the E Trac battery , and Second, I dropped the charger down to .4 amps and STILL could not charge ....I surrender ..... I am a WOODEN GIZMO CONVERT !!.......I STAND CORRECTED !!..... but I will STILL have a funny grin on my face everytime I use it !!..... ....Thanks for your input , AND for your WOODEN GIZMO !!!....... Jim
What you are saying is peefectly in line with what I am experiencing ....First I could not get ANY reading from that little barrel connection on the E Trac battery , and Second, I dropped the charger down to .4 amps and STILL could not charge ....I surrender ..... I am a WOODEN GIZMO CONVERT !!.......I STAND CORRECTED !!..... but I will STILL have a funny grin on my face everytime I use it !!.....
....Thanks for your input , AND for your WOODEN GIZMO !!!....... Jim