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Spent the week with the 3 kHz coil

That was a great explaination Randy! Someone in a previous post wanted to know if the 5x10" HF DD had the same depth as the round 10.5" HF DD? Because of the DD hot spot down running down the center on both. I say NO, the round 10.5" HF DD is deeper on coin sized objects BUT the 5x10" HF DD will pick up smaller than coin size objects better.

That said, we need a round 6" or 10.5" LF (3kHz) DD coil for our machines as we have said like a broken record so many times before. The 5" and 7.5" DD coils for my 5 kHz Musky will do good in these situations too. Also Randy proved in a test that the 9" 3kHz Concentric will pick up a small fine gold ring well. So we can rest assured we will NOT miss small gold jewelry dropped by the old-timers with our 3 kHz coils while hunting old homesteads and farmers fields. At the same time knocking out "iron" better and signalling on "silver" better. Some people say the lower frequencies get better depth too. IMHO I like lower frequencies better for most all, being the large majority of hunting situations, unless I am gold prospecting or want to find the smallest of earing studs.

I will add that Jonathan Porter said the Mono(Concentric) coils can tolerate and have a faster sweep speed than the DD coils because of the way they process information. (Maybe that was only for Minelab Pulse Induction SD, GP and GPX machines and not for VLF's, I do not know?) But arguably the DD's cover more ground per sweep having to be overlapped less than Concertrics(Monos) as well.
 
A lot more high pitched chirping on iron edges. More so than with the 10.5" DD in 7.5 kHz
 
Without getting in over my head. I would have to respond by saying check out Diggers conversation with me on this subject.
Personally, quieter is better. So the DDs work best on high iron soil.
 
Great input on this coil. I have a 6" MF, and have been debating on adding a 9" 3kHz, and/or the 6" DD. I have to say the 6" MF is working very well for me in the iron infested places I hunt. I would like to see how these work as well.
 
NH Bob said:
Without getting in over my head. I would have to respond by saying check out Diggers conversation with me on this subject.
Personally, quieter is better. So the DDs work best on high iron soil.
Click to expand...
I read all the posts in this thread and still not sure which would be best in the fields I hunt with high iron, GB numbers normally in the 30's
 
"I've been posting praise for the 3 kHz coil for over two years! In soil that can GB with a setting of 29 or higher, it is the best coil I've found for the X-Terra. I'm convinced that GB settings of less than 28 do better with the DD coils. But, as you've learned, the 3 kHz is an outstanding coil for those higher conductive targets. After you've initially located a target, if you wiggle that coil as you pull it toward you, the distinct audio (harmonic tones in multiple tone mode) will tell you if it is a good target or a piece of deep iron. Sure saves digging a lot of extra holes out in those fields! Congrats on some great finds! HH Randy"
 
I guess this is the part I get confused on
"the distinct audio (harmonic tones in multiple tone mode) will tell you if it is a good target or a piece of deep iron"
when I get deep iron in the field I many times get the high tones from two or three directions and after I dig, it then turns to negative numbers. I have tried a few different things, but still constantly dig deep iron. This is my only real problem, other than this, I absolutely love my x-70
 
I have found that using all metal over a target like that will tell you it's iron. I use 4 tones exclusively.
Also the #s will be in the - over an iron target in pinpoint mode.
I just want all to know, I'm just a user like the rest of you. I know what works for me and what I expect from a machine. The 70 or todays 705 gives me what I want. Light weight, sensitive, deep and easy to operate. One thing you must do is understand that the digital readout decreases or become somewhat erratic in deep targets but will lock onto the target once you pull a plug.
Like any machine, you must learn what it's telling you. I know that is a worn out phrase but very true.
 
I wish I had someone close by that has an x-70, could show me what I am missing...........no one around here has one that I know of, Oh well I guess I will just keep diging those deep iffy signals and when I get iron, I will just refill the hole and go on....lol
 
As you may know, I hunt in mulitple tone, all metal mode. All of the coils will tell you a lot about a target, if you let them. But the 3 kHz seems to have a distinctive audio for iron, that the other's don't have. I call it harmonics. If you play the guitar, think of it as a chord compared to a single note. Regardless, next time you're out hunting and get a signal, make your mind up whether to dig or not, using your regular methods. If you think you are going to dig it, WAIT and try this........ kind of a continuancy of my consistency theory........ sweep your coil over that target from multiple directions. Not just in an X. But from several directions. Make a mental note as to whether the target center remains in the exact same spot, with each sweep. Use a blade of grass or a clod of dirt to make sure you remain focussed on the same spot. If the target center is not exactly the same with each sweep, it probably isn't a coin. But don't dig it yet....... with the target under the coil, wiggle the coil left and right, left and right, left and right (short swaths of a couple inches), and at the same time, slowly pull the coil toward you in 1/4-inch increments. As the target nears the edge of the coil, one of three things will happen. The audio pitch will drop off.....the audio pitch will get lower...... or the audio pitch will get higher. If the audio drops off suddenly without changing tones, it may be a coin. If the audio changes tones and gets lower than what 3 or 4 notch segments would allow (as you near the edge of the coil), it is not going to be a coin. If the audio increases a bit as you near the edge of the coil, it might be a coin on edge or there is multiple targets. What ever the audio pitch does, check the TID and confirm that it has not fallen "out of coin range". What I've found is that iron will provide multiple tones (harmonics) more distinctly with the 3 khz than the other freqs. But you will need to be in multiple tone mode to hear them. Listening to 4 tones is fine for some. But if you are listening for a drop in pitch while in the 4 tone mode, you'll be waiting a long time for many targets. For example, an IH cent reading 24 will produce the same tone as a piece of trash reading a 2. But in the multiple tone mode, there is a big difference. I am getting so I can do this same thing with many types of pulltabs, using the 6-inch DD coil. If the audio pitch wavers while dragging the coil toward me, it hasn't been a coin. If it remains consistent, I dig it up. I've been fooled some as I learn this method. But the more I do it, the more accurate I become.
If I am out in a field loaded with deep iron, I will size up the target in Prospecting mode and try to determine it's approzimate shape. Once I have it centered, if it is a narrower signal in Prospecting mode than it is in C/T mode, it might be a coin. If the target is larger in Prospecting mode than it seems to be in C/T, it is probably not a coin. But again, don't dig it yet............... once I have determined the size, I wiggle and drag the coil to determine if the audio remains constant. In my experience, iron will drop off as the target nears the edge of the coil, over 90% of the time. You have to wiggle the coil and drag it toward you slowly. And if that audio remains constant, circle around the target and try it from a different angle. The reason that most people dig iron is because they are optimists. They swing the coil over a target 5 times, and if it shows good once, they dig it up. Me, as I become more crippled up, I am becoming more of a realist. Sweeping over the target from different directions, at varying speeds, is much easier than getting up and down to dig. So I sweep methodically, listen intently and analyze thoroughly. It ain't for everyone. But I've proven to myself that my "field analysis" is accurate a huge percentage of the time. I suppose you never know how many coins you left behind, when you don't dig all the signals. ( I read that somewhere LOL) But being able to listen to the harmonics produced by iron has saved me from digging and filling a lot of useless holes. JMHO HH Randy
 
ok makes sense but what about if I am the the 7.5 stock coil or the 10.5 DD 7.5 coil? does the same remail true if I use 4 tones?
 
NH Bob
You found some really nice coins there! Great condition to. Got me thinking about adding the 3kHz to wish list!
 
all of the coils I've tried respond in a similar manner. However, like I said, the 3 kHz gives a much more pronounced low harmonic tone on iron. But I'm getting good results with the 6-inch DD at 18.75 on modern trashy items. (can slaw, aluminum cans, tabs)

As to 4 tone vs multiple tone..... you are listening for a change in the pitch of the tone. If the target notch segment drops, but the tone freq remains the same, you won't hear any difference. That can happen on a nickel with a TID of 12, compared to a piece of steel at 2. If you were hunting in 4-tone, you wouldn't hear any difference as the tone is the same pitch. Being able to hear the harmonics or iron, or hear a subtle change of a couple notch segments as you drag the coil, can only occur if you have all those tones turned on. 4-tone is great for hunting by ear. But for this exercise, you won't hear individual tones for each notch segment unless all the tones are activated. JMHO HH Randy
 
"What I've found is that iron will provide multiple tones (harmonics) more distinctly with the 3 khz than the other freqs. But you will need to be in multiple tone mode to hear them. Listening to 4 tones is fine for some. But if you are listening for a drop in pitch while in the 4 tone mode, you'll be waiting a long time for many targets."

"As to 4 tone vs multiple tone..... you are listening for a change in the pitch of the tone. If the target notch segment drops, but the tone freq remains the same, you won't hear any difference. That can happen on a nickel with a TID of 12, compared to a piece of steel at 2. If you were hunting in 4-tone, you wouldn't hear any difference as the tone is the same pitch. Being able to hear the harmonics or iron, or hear a subtle change of a couple notch segments as you drag the coil, can only occur if you have all those tones turned on. 4-tone is great for hunting by ear. But for this exercise, you won't hear individual tones for each notch segment unless all the tones are activated. JMHO HH Randy"


Randy, wow, good food for thought in your last 2 posts!! When you say multiple tone(s) do you mean 99 tones(Or in reality one for each notch segment.) ?? Do you hunt in 99 tones while using the 3 kHz coil to hear those harmonics(on iron) best Randy ??

The 4-tones is no good to use with the 3 kHz coil because it does not show the harmonics and the multiple tones is needed instead as you are saying.

Also good post NH Bob, hope you find the answers Goes4ever.

And boy do we ever need those 6" and 10.5" LF (3kHz) DD coils more than ever now, I hope somebody pressures Minelab to make them soon!!! (The biggest fear for me would be missing old-timers small gold rings lost on old homesteads and farmers fields using the 3 kHz coils BUT I rest assured I will still pick up these valuable gold items with a 3 kHz coil is a piece of mind.)
 
Not everyone picks the tones apart.. I hunt for old coins and relics. In doing so, I dig most all signals that would potentially give me everything from nickels up. The upper tones or 2 higher tones are all dug for the sake of not missing a great Button or token. Multi tones to me, is really of no advantage.
Like Diggers signiture, You never know unless you dig it
 
"...on rusted bottle caps and bolts/nails. Now when I turn up the disc on the Vaquero to just click on those iron objects, so I know not to dig them, Ive lost smaller gold.

On the Sovereign at the lowest disc setting it also takes out small iron and gives a broken clipped signal on rusty bottle caps and bolts/nails. There is a window of smaller gold that I can hit with the Sov but not with the Vaquero..."


This person on the Tesoro Forum said that with the Sovereign he can knock out rusty bottle caps and bolts/nails to a broken clipped signal and still get smaller gold. BUT with the Vaquero this smaller gold cannot be detected when the rusty bottle caps and bolts/nails are discriminated out.

So taking this same thing applying it to the X-70(5) with the 3 kHz coil I wonder how it performs? Will I be able to knock out(OR identify by TDI and TONE) rusty bottle caps and bolts/nails and still get small gold? I have never experimented, but yes I would think the X-70(5) can, with Randy's method of Multile Tone harmonics. This is all the more reason we need the 3 kHz DD coils to help in working in iron infested places.

NH Bob, as I understand it. Multiple Tones ONLY for the 3 kHz coil and 4 Tones for the rest of the coils.

Yes you are right Goes4Ever about digging everything from +2 in OLD sites. But Randy tells us how to ID (bigger)iron better as it can show up like a good target sometimes.
 
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