Sovereign and Excalibur Search Coils

[Critterhunter]

This photo courtesy of Deepdiger doing some hard searching for pics of the elusive 11" Coinsearch coil. It wasn't the 11", but still a great find of two coils in the same pic to show the size difference of the 8" Minelab Tornado that is really only 7 & 1/4" compared to the true 8" size of the Minelab Coinsearch. The old heavy Minelab BBS coil is also 7 & 1/4" like the newer Tornado currently made to this day. It shows why many prefer the 8" Tornado for hunting heavy trash, as it still gets outstanding depth (heard of a few coins around a foot in depth with it, like the Coinsearch) yet has excellent separation.

I'm one who prefers the S-5 ( 5.5" ) coil because I want the smallest round coil I can find for a trash coil and I'm still shocked by it's excellent depth, but I think the 5" Exclerator Detech currently makes might be smaller, and might even be smaller than 5". I dug up a blurb (see prior blurb in this sticky) where somebody said the 5" Excelerator is 4 & 3/4" in size, but there is some small doubt (again, see prior info) that that might have been a version replaced by the current one they call the 5" Excelerator. I doubt that, but it's worth mentioning. I think the old Hot Head Ferret coil might also have been smaller than 5". So if smallest possible is your primary goal for heavy trash, you might want to check into the currently made Excelerator or try to dig up the rare Hot Head Ferret which might have been even smaller still yet. Still, the S-5 sure looks tiny to me, and many love this coil on even the FBS machines when working the worst of the worst in terms of heavy trash. I know some FBS guys prefer it over the 8x6 (sadly not made yet or maybe never for the Sovereign) SEF coil when trash is beyond belief.

Even this pic for size comparison doesn't do the Tornado or BBS coils justice. My friend has the BBS version on his Excal and it looks like a hockey puck. The picture below makes the Tornado (same size) look bigger to me then it does in person.

 

[Critterhunter]

After a LONG hunt on the net over several days by John, DeepDiger, and me, John finally bagged a picture of this elusive beast. It took a few days of debate as to it actual being the true 11" Coinsearch, or in fact was just an odd version of the 8" Coinsearch coil, because it did have different looking ears on it (no bat wing brackets like the 8" coil) on the coil's ears/face than the known 8" Coinsearch coil, but there was no way to really judge it's actual size. Today the proof was finally nailed down as to it's actual size. I took his picture and put it in Paint, and then used the space of the coil mount area to paste over the picture to see how many times it would fit on the coil's face to gage the actual size. It fit 11 times. After measuring the width of the coil ears (in between them) on an S-5 coil, I found out it was almost 1" wide in that area, so obviously that means this is in fact an 11" coil. Good job John!

The first two pics are the ones John dug up, and the third pic is my paste measurement of the picture via Paint. Sure looks like it's the real deal! Still two more coils (at least two, but maybe more) to hunt down pics and reports on...The Hot Head Ferret trash coil, and the long ago Kellyco large white solid coil which I think had a hole in the center. It was either 12 to 16 or so inches in size. Anybody with too much time on their hands can hunt for those. Somebody remarked the large coil might have been also called a Hot Head and I think I vaguely remember it being called a Penetrator myself, if it ever did exist.

Here's John's quote with his great find...

Hey guys I found a couple of pictures of the 11 inch Coinsearch coil.

John

 

[Critterhunter]

Dug up some stuff on this coil. Not much message traffic on it for the Sovereign on Findmall or across the net. Here's a few official blurbs about it for the Sovereign version...

"The Coiltek Platypus coil is a suitable replacement for the standard 10" factory fitted coil on the Minelab Sovereign model metal detectors. It is lightweight, gives better balance, is more sensitive and performs well in trashy areas. The Platypus coil is ideal for getting into confined areas that a round coil may not be able to reach. "

"This coil has been an excellent addition to the range of products we offer. This is a unique design as it is fully water proof and one of only a few fully water proof coils we produce. The coil is potted with epoxy resin which holds all the windings secure and provide its water proof ability. The coil comes with a fitted skid-plate which has been designed so it can be easily removed to clean out trapped dirt or dust or to remove completely and swing without the skid. The coils robustness will ensure that if run without a skid plate it will endure the knocks and bumps during normal swing action. (solid skid plate also available) The strain relief on the coil could be the only area of water intake so always remember to have this hand tight plus half a turn before you are going to submerse the coil. Also remember that the coil is water proof only, so ensure that your cable plug and control box are kept free of moisture at all times."

A user

 

[Critterhunter]

The Sovereign version of the 12x10 was hard to find here and there on Kellyco's site. You had to click in some obscure place to find it due to poorly listing it in the proper places. metdetdevl (Dan Garrell), Chief Operating Office, chimed in on a thread a month or so back and said not to worry that they had taken the Sovereign 12x10 done completely, as they are waiting on the huge back order due to the demands on Detech to make various versions of all their coils for various detectors and would stick the Sovereign version back up when they got more and and filled existing orders and such. He even confirmed in a PM to me that they are indeed waiting on the Sovereign version of the new Ultimate 13" coil as well, which is great news since this new coil has a lot of buzz too like the SEF coils.

So, beyond all that, if you are having trouble finding the Sovereign version of any of these coils on their site, or perhaps the 5" Excelerator as well maybe, I'd contact him at the Email below or via a PM (metdetdevl). Before you bother him, though, I'd call Kellyco and ask for JW, as he seems up on stuff more than some of the other sales people, and will go the extra mile to find things out for you by my experience. JW can also be PMed through Findmall (his handle is JW) as well. Just saying, if a sales person said they can't find a certain coil for you don't take their word for it. Even when the 12x10 was listed I had called a few times and some had trouble finding it due to the odd place the Sovereign version was placed on their website in some obscure spot, and wouldn't list in spots you'd think you'd see it.

Like I said, call JW or PM him first before you bother this guy, as I'm sure that's more JW's job than his maybe to find out if they have a certain coil in stock or when it's coming.

Dan Gerrell
Chief Operating Officer
Kellyco Metal Detectors
http://www.kellycodetectors.com
dgerrell@kellycodetectors.com

 

[Critterhunter]

Sorry, forgot to post a really good picture of this coil that is better than the crummy one earlier in this thread...

 

[Critterhunter]

Just found a great pic of the 5" Excelerator (first pic) from over seas so couldn't pass up posting it. All three of these pics are Sovereign versions of the 5" Excelerator. I'm sure the only difference is the decal. The second pic was from Detech's own site, and the third (the one on the Minelab box) is from Matthias. Not sure where or when he got his, but the other two are pics of it as currently being sold. I'm sure all three including Mathias's is the same exact coil and with just a differences in decals. See prior info in this sticky on all that. I had already posted the other two pics previously in this sticky but wanted them next to this new (first) great one for visual comparison.

 

[Critterhunter]

The first pic shows the 18x15, 15x12, and 12x10 all together in one pic. The second pic is Mathias's already posted 18x15 and 12x10 together. We are only missing the 21x17 in a picture with the others or at least beside one or two of them so people can judge the size of that coil. As you can see, the 15x12 is a pretty darn big coil but borderlines being a monster to some, while the 18x15 easily fits "monster" class to anybody, but for sure the 21x17 is Godzilla in terms of size.

The 12x10 without coil cover is lighter than the super light Sun Ray S-12. The 15x12 without coil cover is lighter than the 10" Tornado with coil cover still on. I owned this coil for a while (15x12) and it's size doesn't feel that huge once you get used to it. For sure it helps to cover a large beach or field faster due to the slow swinging nature of Minelabs. However, while it did seem to show more depth than the 10" Tornado for me in the sand on coin sized targets, it seemed to get less depth on land in my soil on coin/ring sized targets. The 12x10 seems by all tests and use to be deeper for me than the 10" Tornado and 15x12 on land, so I would suspect it might be even deeper than the 15x12 in the sand but haven't used it enough there yet to judge that for sure. The 12x10 is still a nice improvement in coverage over the stock 10" coil. I feel less likely that I'm missing spots when gridding with it, and it is noticeably an improvement in coverage when covering large areas, yet due to it's super sharp detection field I feel I'm separating much better left/right wise than the stock 10" coil. When I go back to the stock 10" coil (rarely) it feels tiny to me now, like I'm using an 8" coil or something.

Some say the 15x12 is giving them gains in depth over the 12x10 on dime sized targets, while others like me say the 12x10 is deeper in our soil on dime sized targets. I believe it falls down to how mineralized your soil is, and that for some of us the 15x12 is taking in too much ground matrix and degrading a target at extreme depth. For sure the official field test of all three of these coils (18x15, 15x12, 12x10) shows that the 15x12 gets less depth than the 12x10 on a cut quarter penny (a tiny European coin). As the field test shows, the 15x12 will get deeper on say a target the size of a half dollar or bigger or so. For these reasons the 15x12 is somewhat a 50/50 proposition as to if it may or may not get deeper for you on say dimes or quarters than the 12x10. Some say yes, some say no.

For sure most would probably agree that the 18x15 is well beyond the point of no return in terms of providing more depth on at least dimes or quarters over the 15x12 and 12x10, but I bet will see larger targets about the size of a silver dollar (maybe even a half dollar?) or perhaps a bit bigger than that at greater depths than the 15x12 or 12x10. For that reason the 18x15 might be a good choice for cache hunting to some. But, if you want a coil that also should get decent depth on dime/quarter sized targets and yet some deeper cache ability I'd lean towards the 15x12.

On the other hand, the 18x15 might not get as deep on coins or rings as the other two smaller coils, but in some situations such as miles of beach it's more important to some to get maximum coverage to cover areas faster and not so much as important to get maximum depth. That might make it a good choice for miles of beach hunting or super large open fields when depth is of secondary importance and coverage is primary. I still found the 15x12 to be a really good step up in coverage, though, and like I said it's lighter than the stock 10" Tornado with coil cover if you remove the coil cover on the 15x12.

As to the decision to go for the 12x10 or the 15x12 for coin/ring sized targets, as said some of us believe the 12x10 is deeper on those in our soil, while others say the reverse, or at least that the 15x12 matches the 12x10 on those sized targets (probably a better way to put it). Ask yourself if you just want max depth on rings/coins and then the 12x10 is the safer bet I would think, as the 15x12 probably will only match it on those size targets and might (as it was for me) not get the same depth in certain soils due to the ground matrix degrading target signals at depth IMO. I would weigh this question too...Is coverage more of primary concern with probably near matching depths? Then lean towards the 15x12 maybe. If it tells you anything, though, by far the 12x10 is more popular among coin and beach hunters. That should tell you something, and as said the added coverage over the stock 10" coil is still noticeable and a nice improvement, without feeling you are using too big of a coil that won't separate as well as the stock 10" coil. You'll probably find, like me, that the 12x10 gives you even more confidence you are separating better than the stock coil in fact left/right wise.

Here's the official field test of the 18x15, 15x12, and 12x10, which gives data on the depth of each on various sized targets and such which should be helpful. It's just a PDF file of the article and not a website trying to sell anything, so I don't see any issues with posting it.

http://www.lovecpokladu.cz/img/sefcoils.pdf

Here's the pics (18x15, 15x12, 12x10 in first pic, Matthias's pic of 18x15 and 12x10 in second)...

 

[Critterhunter]

They now have this coil in black. Picture below. By the way, I was just reading a current thread in the Explorer forum and this coil is only rated water resistant and not water proof. No wonder it's such a light coil and I saw a blurb or two about it trying to float a bit as it's probably not filled with epoxy. Even using micro balloons in the epoxy it would probably be hard to match it's light weight, so I'm not surprised by that.

I've seen a few of you Excal guys are using it for water hunting. I'd make sure to put rubber cement on the threads for the coil cable nut and also on the cable where the rubber sleeve slides down with the nut. Then tighten the nut by hand and then just a hair more with a wrench. Not too much or you might crack it. Even with those precautions if that coil casing gets one pin hole leak in it it could be lights out for that coil in the water. I've seen people use coils only rated water resistant in the water before but IMO that's a big risk. Coils filled with epoxy are the only way to insure that even a breach in the casing probably won't allow water to get to the vitals of the coil.

Far as I know only the 8 and 11" old Coinsearch coils and perhaps the 11" solid white old version of the Sun Ray S-12 are only rated water resistent. All other coils probably are waterproof, but the solid little ones such as the S-5 or Excelerator I'm not sure about. Spiderweb coils are all waterproof that I know of as they are filled with epoxy. The old BBS coils were heavy due to them being made before micro balloon technology mixed with the epoxy to save weight. That's why I figure all modern coils are so much lighter than those were.

What I'm hearing with the few lucky ones to have this coil already (Kellyco is still waiting on the Sovereign version and it's hard to find a source from over seas who will ship to the US from what I hear) is that it might be as deep as the 12x10 or deeper but nobody has really came out and said that one way or the other yet. I also hear it has some unique ability to sound off to coins in iron not seen on other round DD coils in some ways, but that it doesn't separate as well as the 12x10. That's just initial blurbs I've caught here and there so far so opinions may change on various aspects compared to the 12x10.

 

[Critterhunter]

I've seen this question pop up a lot on the net about these SEF coils, as well as questions about which coils are waterproof or not, so I think it's worthy of posting here to answer future questions on the subject...

So. I got my new SOV GT. It came with the 15x18. It is huge. I have a plan for it. Today. I opened it and low an behold the spot where the wire connects to the coil was not "screwed" on. I can easily screw it on. I would fill it with epoxy before I did. My question is should I send this puppy back? I have plenty of time.

Here are 3 pics. In one I have clearly moved it away to show what I mean. Thanks. HH an GL -Joe

All SEF coils come this way for shipping reasons I heard. Even if the coil came with the nut screwed on I know I've read numerous times it was not even hand tight for shipping reasons. I've read the nut on the coil cable on coils is only really there to grab the cable's outer insulation and thus take the stress off the wires.

What I do with all my coils (SEF or not) is to put rubber cement on the threads and then also on the coil cable where the rubber sleeve with the nut will slide down, so that not only is the nut water tight but so is the rubber sleeve. Tighten the nut hand tight and then turn just a hair more with a wrench. Not too much or you'll crack it!

By the way, all Sovereign coils I'm aware of (except exceptions noted below) are filled with epoxy. So even if water got in there it shouldn't get to anything I would think. Just in case though, I do what I said above to all my coils for that extra added bit of confidence. The coils I'm aware of that I don't think are filled with epoxy and thus are only rated water resistant are the old 8 and 11" Coinsearch coils and perhaps the old solid white S-12, as well as the new 13" Ultimate...All these are only rated water resistant that I know of. I'm not sure about the solid S-5, Excelerator 5", or other solid small trash coils.

I have heard of people using water resistant coils in the water, but one pin hole leak in the casing and it might be lights out. I know I've read of some using the Coinsearch coil in the water and there are Excal guys using the Ultimate in the water, but that's being risky IMO and coils not filled with epoxy have a tendency to try to float too. It used to be coils filled with epoxy were heavy so it was usually avoided, especially with solid coils. All the spiderweb coils I'm aware of for the Sovereign are filled with epoxy that I know of. The old BBS coils were heavy because that was before micro balloons mixed with the epoxy to drop weight. That's probably why more modern epoxy filled coils are so much lighter.

 

[bik-il]

When searching the Kellyco website and I come across whatever coil I am looking for I just write down the part number listed so if the coil listing gets moved or taken down for whatever reason,
anyone in the sales department can find and check stock without having to actually find the listing on the website when I am on the phone. Saves time and they their computer may show it in stock without it being on the website.

Regarding the coil wire connecting nut being loose in shipping-

just an idea but I am wondering if its left undone to equalize any internal pressure associated with the pressure changes of air shipping from overseas??

Just wondering.

 

[Critterhunter]

That's a good idea about writing down the part #, but keep in mind the 12x10 when it was up recently (Sovereign version) was VERY hard to find on their site. You had to dig through various places on there, as it wasn't listed where you'd expect it. For that reason, I don't trust their site for listing what they have in stock. Better to call JW or that guy above I listed and find out for sure about things, as the sales people might not think they have or are getting something if they can't find it on the computer maybe.

Interesting point about the coil nut. Might be. But, I got my two SEF coils used and when shipped in the original box I noticed it's very flat, and that's why the nut is unscrewed so it can lay down and not be poking into the top of the box. It might be though that you're reason is also why too, but then again these coils are filled with epoxy so I don't think they'd have any air in them anyway to cause pressure to build? You never know though. I have, however, read of others who said the same thing I noticed- that it was done for shipping reasons.

 

[Critterhunter]

Here

 

[Ralph Sun Ray]

Actually the Coinsearch 8" coil windings are only 7 1/4" - the same as the later spider coils. A pancake coil windings do not go all the way out to the sides of the housing as they must be padded, unlike the solid epoxy coils which are embedded in solid epoxy. We had the "8" Coinsearch coil open many years ago and it had 7 1/4" windings. Very few people know that fact unless they have opened one.

Ralph (Sun Ray)

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks Ralph. Another great bit of Sovereign coil trivia. Is your 8" Sun Ray coil the same size internaly? What about the S-5? It measures 5.5" in physical size, it is smaller than that?

I heard the 9.5" Whites coils on the old low frequency (XLT, QXT, etc) Whites have smaller windings than the 9.5" diameter too?

 

[Ralph Sun Ray]

Yes, all of our coils are now epoxy filled (including our 5.5" coils) so the windings are as far out to the edges as possible as they are embedded in epoxy.

Ralph (Sun Ray)

 

[Critterhunter]

So I would think then that that means the Sun Ray S-8 coil is the only true 8" size DD coil on the market for the Sovereign? Good to know, so thanks again. There is another 8" coil but it's a concentric and I don't know if it's a true 8, but the Minelab BBS and Tornado coils are 7 & 1/4" in actual diameter, and as you said the solid coinsearch coil is only 7 & 1/4", so I think that means the Sun Ray is the only true 8" coil for the BBS machines?

 

[Kellyco Joe]

Hi Bik-il

We have a number of the 13 " Ultimate DD Coil For Sovereign GT instock. (part #13USOV )

Cheerz

 

[Critterhunter]

Kellyco now has the Sovereign version in stock. This thread has info on a few Sovereign user blurbs about using it so far, weights compared to the 12x10 and 10" Tornado, a Kellyco FBS user review as well as one by somebody else, a youtube FBS user field test, and so on...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1751467

 

[larry_nj]

is the coiltek 15" coil for the sov a waterproof coil, i want to use it for shallow water, thanks in advance,larry

 

[Critterhunter]

Yep, as said already in the sticky the only coils I think that are only rated water resistant and not waterproof are the old and now defunct 8 and 11" coinsearch coils, I think the old style Sun Ray solid white S-12 coil also no longer made, and the new Detech 13" Ultimate . Although some are using this coil in the water...water resistant coils can be used if you take some precautions by sealing the coil nut and rubber coil cable sleeve that slides down with it with rubber cement or something on the threads and between the rubber nut sleeve and the cable, but if you get one pin hole in a water resistant coil it might mean it goes bad.

You might be able to recover it by drying it out well and then sealing the breach when it works again but that's your risk of course. That I'm aware all other Minelab or aftermarket coils are waterproof because they are filled with epoxy. The 5" Excelerator and Sun Ray S-5 I don't know if they are filled with epoxy or not. Not sure about the concentric 8" Excelerator sold by Kellyco or some of the odd/rare old Ferret/Hot Head type coils

The Coiltek WOT coil is waterproof though and is very popular among water hunts for not just more coverage, but also for lack of drag due to the slim shape. The 15x12 for me was too much drag for my tastes in the water due to it's shape. Don't know if it's more drag than the WOT as I haven't used a WOT in water, but I suspect the 15x12 would be more drag probably than the WOT. Not sure if the 12x10 is any more noticable drag than the stock 10" coil or the S-12 spider coil or such.

By the way, the WOT is actually 14.25" in diameter in actual size. The Sun Ray spiderweb S-12 coil (the current one made that replaced the old solid S-12 years ago) is also very popular among water hunters and is 12 & 1/2" in actual size. It might be that the S-12 is still the most popular water coil out there due to less drag perhaps than the 12x10, but the 12x10 is so much newer that it might just be that not enough numbers of people have had time to start using one of those too for water hunting as well. I have yet to try mine in the water as I keep my 10" Tornado religated to my water shaft while the 12x10 stays on my lightweight land rig all the time.

If you look on page 1 of this sticky you'll find a link to a coil price and weight chart we put together where we weighed a bunch of BBS and FBS coils. We also measured them for actual size, and that chart shows the WOT at 14.25".