Sovereign and Excalibur Search Coils

[Critterhunter]

Dug up another review of the 8" concentric Detech coil...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1231678,1231678#msg-1231678

And here's a thread with a bit more info on that coil, as well as a blurb or two about the 5" Hot Head Ferret coil...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,615057,615057#msg-615057

That's about all I can find on these two coils, and still don't know if the 5" Ferret was a DD or a concentric or if it was just an early name for the 5/6" Excelerator coil(s) which I know for sure ARE DD coils. Or if there was both a 5 and 6" Excelerator or just a 6"? Also still don't know if there was an 8" Concentric Ferret and if there was was it different than the newer 8" Detech concentric. My head is spinning. Too much digging through threads for one day and that's all I can find on this stuff anyway.

 

[Neil]

There is 2 different versions of these coils as there was the early ones and the latter ones. The early ones were white in color and solid coils and the S-12 was a bit heavy too, these were called the Ultra series and believe the S12 Ultra was not waterproof either and not sure on the S-5. Now we have the newer ones that are black with the S 12 Intruders a open coil so it is lighter weight and from using both the S12 Ultra and the S-12 Intruders I found both to be excellent coils with some great depth and separation and find the newer S-12 seem to separate a bit better and depth a little more too for me anyway. I have seen some great prices on the S-12 Ultra with some as low as $50 on the forums.


Rick

Rick you are correct about the earlier Sunray coils and both were water resistant, not waterproof. Even up to the latest coils you can always tell an older one by its gray cable.

On the seasearch coil, didnt minelab offer those up as an accessory for the Sov? I believe so. Thats a coil that alot of guys liked but I never saw what all the rave was. Tried a couple of them, heavy and unbalanced and performance in my opinion was about the same as the coinsearch. Guys used to saw off the wings to lighten up the coil. Those coils also have a problem with blistering and coming apart. It was shortly after they were released that minelab introduced the BBS coils that then went on the Sov and Excals.

The older white S12 and 10" Coinsearch were probably the two heaviest/most unbalanced coils Ive ever used on the Sovs and Ive used most of them. Sunray really hit one out of the park with the black S12, still one of the best if not the best large coil for the Sov when you think of performance/balance and how light it feels on the end of the rod. It also is not bad in the water for resistance.

 

[Critterhunter]

Dug up a picture and a thread on it. Not waterproof from what I gather, just like the 8 and 11" Minelab Coinsearch coils since all these coils are solid and thus would probably weigh too much if filled with epoxy like a spiderweb/non-solid coil is due to less volume to fill. Less weight to fill those and so all I know of for the Sovereign or Excal are indeed waterproof. The few small blurbs I could find on the solid S-12 people seem to like it, although they say it's heavier than the later spiderweb design S-12 that is still made to this day.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,493251,493251#msg-493251

And a field test with it...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1070250,1070250#msg-1070250

 

[Critterhunter]

Hey Neil, did you mean to say 11" Coinsearch coil instead of 10"? I was under the impression there was of course the famous 8" one and then an 11" one? I'm just now trying to dig up pics and info to post with links on that coil for this thread, as well as any more about the solid S-12 white coil before the spiderweb black one came out that is still made to this day.

And do you and he mean there were two versions of the solid S-12, one heavier than the later one, and you could tell the difference by the coil cable? I know the spiderweb S-12 is of course waterproof because it's a favorite among some water hunters, so I assume you are talking about two versions of the solid S-12 in certain respects above (both of you)?

 

[Critterhunter]

I'm having no luck finding a picture of the 11" Minelab Coinsearch coil, so if anybody has this ultra rare coil please post a pic and a review of it, as I can't really find much performance posts about it other than one guy saying he loves it for the beach. If any of you have compared it to the solid S-12 Sun Ray coil how about a weight and performance comparison of the two too? I doubt there is anybody even reading this sticky that has this coil sitting around maybe as it sounds very rare. From what little I found on it I think they said it was only an option as a second coil you could buy only when you bought the original Sovereign that already had the 8" Coinsearch coil on it? In other words, sounds like it was only an option to get at the time of purchase as a second coil for the original Sovereign maybe and couldn't be bought otherwise? Somebody correct me as that's just the gist of what I say implied in a thread containing a tiny bit of detail on it. If that's true, then I'm sure that's why it seems to be the rarest of all Sovereign coils, made by Minelab or not, with the exception of perhaps that odd shaped little Detech coil I provided a link to in the first page of this sticky. The way I understand it that coil was ultra rare in the US or might have never even been sold here, but it might still be sold by Detech over seas in a Sovereign version still as that link I provided shows it for sale still it looks like.

Here's a picture of that little Detech coil. It's a 4.5x7. I remember one guy in this forum saying he bought the last one somewhere at one shop over seas, but by the link I provided on the prior page it still appears they make it and will custom build per order.

 

[Critterhunter]

I shot Ralph at Sun Ray a PM to find out if there were any two versions or so of the solid S-12 Ultra Depth coil as well as the spiderweb current version of the S-12. I also asked for any info on these coils/versions of them all along with any pics he could send me or post directly into this sticky, so when he gets back to me I'll post what he gives me unless he posts it directly here for us.

 

[Rick(ND)]

The 11 inch Coinsearch was a option of a second coil for the Sovereign original and the XS, but if I remember correctly back to 1996 they were not very popular and the price was high so Sun Ray made their version of the 12 inch ultra depth coil which was much better and less money. With the 12 inch they made a 5 inch coil too for those that needed a smaller coil. The 8 inch coinsearch and the Ultra depth S-12 were the most popular coils for the Sovereign and to this day the 8 inch is still popular and the newer S-12 Intrudder of Sun Rays plus the S-8 also for those that are more serious about finding the better finds.

 

[Critterhunter]

The Coiltech WOT, which I believe is 14.25" in size, was I think the first aftermarket coil made for the Sovereign (?). It has earned it's reputation and many favor it for water hunting or hunting large fields, as well as trying to gain depth in hunted out spots because of it being a larger coil than stock. It is still made to this day for the Sovereign by Coiltech and has a large following.

The 15x12 SEF, along with the 12x10, came out roughly about 3 years ago or so for the Sovereign. They are still made but can be hard to get lately as Kellyco always seems to be waiting for shipments off and on. Detech is making many of these and several other coils for various machines and seems to be swamped with orders all the time. You may have more luck finding them used or on Ebay or directly from Joann Detectors or somebody over seas. Detech also sells an 18x15 and a 21xsomething size of the coil, but both of those are well beyond size in terms of depth gains on coin or ring sized targets. I found even the 15x12 *in my soil* did not get the depth of the 12x10 on coin/ring sized targets and also wasn't as deep as the stock 10" Tornado in my soil for thos, but for some reason it did get deeper than stock on those targets in my mineralized sand sites. Some do report depth gains on coin/ring targets in their soil, though over stock. I suspect it depends on how mineralized your soil is. The 12x10 for me is for sure deeper than stock or the 15x12 on land. The only source of these SEF coils in the US new is via Kellyco. If you tell them you want the Findmall special they'll give you free shipping. The Sovereign versions of these coils can be hard to find on their site though, so probably better to call and ask for JW as he seems to be up on finding them I think.

I found the 15x12 was too much drag for my tastes in the water due to it's shape, but I don't hear too many complaints about the WOT in the water, so I suspect due to it's shape the WOT is more sleek and less resistance in the water. I haven't tried my 12x10 in the water yet because my stock 10" Tornado stays on my water rig as the 12x10 is my every day land coil.

Anyway, here's some pics of the 15x12 and WOT for size comparison laying over each other. As you can see, the WOT is slightly wider at the very center, but the 15x12 retains it's width more over a longer span of the length and is also a bit longer than the WOT at the tip and tail. For that reason, the SEF will give you slightly more ground per sweep covered length wise I would think. As most know, DD coils tend to have a detection line running from tip to tail of the coil. Think of it as a wiper blade, so you can see how length=more coverage IMO.

I would love to see somebody do some depth tests of these two coils head to head to see which gets deeper in sand and on land.

These photos are courtesy of Ra-Mo. Maybe he'd be the guy to ask about what he thought of the two performance/depth wise. I think if you search for "wot, 15x12" (all words, any date) in this forum you can find some comparison opinions on them both from those who have owned both...

 

[Critterhunter]

Remember that the 8" BBS (heavy) and the newer Tornado version are both 7 & 1/4" coils, so many people love them (in particular the Tornado version) for excellent seperation as a heavy trash coil. The WOT I believe is 14.25" in size...

 

[Critterhunter]

The Sun Ray is actually 5.5" in size. A really small coil, and I like that for max separation. Many like odd shaped trash coils where the length is longer in order to attempt to increase depth, but when I'm working heavy trash with a small coil I want max separation and that means the smallest round coil I can find. I still think this coil may get 9" or so on a silver dime in my soil. Very impressive considering the deepest a non-Minelab machine could ever get in my soil was 7.5" on a dime and that was using an 8 to 10" size coils. While I haven't dug a dime at 9" with the S-5 yet, I have dug one about 7" that hit so hard and easy that I believe it could have easily been another 2 to 3" deep and I should probably still have got it just fine. I've read of others reporting 9" or so on dimes with it so I'm fairly confident it will do that for that reason too in my soil, or at least come very close to it.

Early versions of the S-5 were white in color but I haven't heard if the performance was any different than the current version which Sun Ray continues to make to this day.

Here's a thread I did on S-5 and 10" Tornado separation tests against each other. It includes pictures of masked targets and notes in detail how both coils did at two 90 degree angles to each target masked differently. Very long, but detailed and does indeed show the merits of using a small coil for unmasking even better than the already excellent ability of the 10" Tornado...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1131053,page=1

 

[Critterhunter]

The 10" Tornado is the best stock DD coil I've ever used on any machine. Much better than the various old 10" Explorer coils IMO. It's got good separation, excellent depth, and is very stable. In fact, I've thus far dug my two deepest coins with it at about 11" deep. I have yet to dig coins that deep with the 12x10 but my tests show it is deeper. In one test at a sensitivity setting of 3PM the stock 10" coil coil not even see a dime I buried but the 12x10 did without touching the sensitivity. The Tornado made it's appearance with the introduction of the Elite and continues to be made to this day. They have also replaced the heavy BBS coils on the Xcals as well.

A few more bits...The 12x10 is more stabile, allows higher sensitivity settings, and is a nice improvement in coverage you can really notice. It's also got better separation and seems to make tones more crisp. The odd thing is the machine feels sped up because of it's laser like detection field too. Detech and Kellyco claim the SEF coils are a hybrid of concentric and DD coil fields for the best of both worlds. Some believe that and say there is a small concentric-like center to the coil roughly the size of a large soup can. I used to think that but am not so sure, as the DD line seems very sharp from tip to tail, but is even sharper near the tip and tail. Either way, whether it's a concentric/DD hybrid or not, it is for sure a very unique coil with a unique detection field, and if it is partly concentric I'd say 90% of the field is DD...But a VERY sharp DD that makes for outstanding separation, and also since it's a less "fuzzy" field it rides on and sees less ground stew which equals more stability and higher sensitivity levels without the target being washed out by the ground matrix IMO. Use the tip to really sniff at stuff you think might be severly masked, but even the center does a much sharper job than any DD coil I've ever used at separation, big OR small IMO.

Here's a few pics of the 10" Tornado and 12x10 for size comparison. You can search on your own for various threads from others and me that compare both coils. One of which in which I go into detail on depth comparisons on buried targets with the two. For that reason I believe the 12x10 is a deeper coil even though my Tornado thus far holds the record at 11" for two coins, but I honestly haven't used the 12x10 at known deep coin spots yet to see if I can beat that. For one thing though, I am popping wheats and silver dimes in dry conditions at depth much more frequently with the 12x10 than I ever did with the Tornado at those same sites under dry conditions. That, combined with the fact that in one test the 12x10 could hear a buried silver dime at a 3Pm sensitivity setting but the Tornado could not, lead me to believe the 12x10 is deeper. It also seems more sensitive to tiny targets and seems to hit coins on edge even better than that already excellent ability of the Tornado. Not knocking the Tornado. Great coil. Best I ever used. It's just the 12x10 raises the bar even more in all performance aspects IMO.

Here's one link to a long in depth thread I wrote on the impressions of this coil, as well as to the 10" Tornado. Search on your own for "12x10, Tornado" (ALL WORDS, ANY DATE) and you'll find a ton of threads in this forum on them compared from people and me.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1293994,1294614#msg-1294614

 

[Critterhunter]

Here's some pics of the 15x12 this time and the 10" Tornado together for size comparison just like the others I just posted of the 12x10 and such. I won't go into any more details about these two coils as you can read that in prior posts and links I have posted in this sticky. But, I will add that without the coil cover the 15x12 is lighter than the 10" Tornado with coil cover. I should also mention that the 12x10 without a coil cover is lighter than the legendary light weight of the Sun Ray S-12. I use spray on bed liner on all my coils as it makes them lighter (a few ounces can make a huge differnce on a long day) and also gets rid of the hassle of cleaning under coil covers. That's especially important when say water hunting for sure.

Here's a link to my long detailed experiences with the 15x12 and thoughts on it compared to the Tornado. Keep in mind this was prior to owning a 12x10. It took me a long time to figure out the 15x12 wasn't getting deeper on coin/ring sized targets than the 10" Tornado in my soil, but it did on my mineralized beaches for some odd reason. I would figure if it wouldn't show more depth than stock in my mineralized land sites then why would it get more depth in the sand? Still can't figure that one out. Either way, in my soil the 12x10 is deeper than both the Tornado and the 15x12. The coverage of the 15x12 sure was awesome for gridding out a large area of sand or a big grass lot, that's for sure, but the 12x10 is still a nice step up over stock in that respect too...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1166419,page=1

 

[Critterhunter]

This coil hasn't showed up at Kellyco yet in the Sovereign version but they said they are waiting on it, just like they are waiting on some more 12x10's from Detech to for the Sovereign to get in. This is the very latest coil by anybody for the Sovereign. Some got it already by ordering it through fleabay from a UK source, but I hear that source no longer ships to the US. You might be able to get him to by asking, but I found it very hard to find on Eabay and had to do some creative searches to dig the Sovereign version up on there. I suspect Joan Detectors (the UK version of Kellyco) will also be carrying it.

Notice how it looks very similar to the Pro Coil. It's also said to be super light like the Pro coil for the FBS Etrac/Explorer machines and only a tad heavier. By the way, the BBS (Sov/Excal) versions of the SEF coils are lighter than the FBS versions for some reason, and I think I dug up that the Sovereign version of the Ultimate is also lighter than the FBS version too.

This coil is very new but the initial reports from FBS guys and Excal/Sov guys are that it's very deep. Not sure yet if it's deeper than the 12x10. The Ultimate is also said to have some unique ability to sniff coins out of iron not seen on conventional round DD coils. I doubt it separates as good as the 12x10 just by share fact of the SEF's unique shape that compresses the width of the DD detection line, if not just for the fact that the Ultimate is 1" longer and 3" wider.

By the way, on the prior 10" Tornado/12x10 comparison photos...Notice how the SEF holds it's width wider for more area of it's length than the round Tornado, just like the 15x12 does compared to the WOT.

I really want to get my hands on this coil and run it head to head against my 12x10. I feel in my soil either 12 or 13" is the max size limit I can use in a coil and still see depth gains on coin/ring sized targets due to taking in too much ground matrix and degrading the target quality. I'm not even sure if the round S-12 will show depth gains in my soil over the stock 10" Tornado due to that, but feel the 12x10 does due to it's super sharp and less fuzzy field. One day I'll get a S-12 and compare it to the 12x10 in depth.

Here's a thread about the Ultimate...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1704330,page=1

Just like the 12x10, you might have to call Kellyco and ask somebody who should know like JW if they have any in. The 12x10 Sovereign version was always hard to find on Kellyco's website and I suspect it and the Ultimate might still be hard to find on their site even when they get them in.

And here's some pics from initial lucky guys who got their hands on one. The last pic is from a FBS guy comparing it to the 11" Pro Coil and 12x10 in the pic for size comparison...

 

[Rick(ND)]

The S-5 and the S-12 of Sun Rays were the first after market coils for the Minelab Sovereigns. When I started using a Sovereign XS in 1996 the only coils available were the Sun Rays and great coils they were. Maybe Kellyco sold a Hot Head first which I am not sure of, but do know those were not good coils. The W.O.T. come out later on and some do like them and some don't, around here those that had them have sold them and gotten the S-12 of Sun Rays as they seem to be lighter and deeper for us that do coin hunting. Like I say some do like them and some don't and don't know of anyone that has tried the SEF coils for the Sovereigns around here as many now are Explorer and E-Trac users around here.

 

[Critterhunter]

This coil has been out I think (?) almost as long as the WOT (a LONG time) and is still made for the Sovereign yet I hear very little about it...

I'll not bother to post info or thread links to this coil. It has such a unique name you can do that searching yourself.

 

[Critterhunter]

EDIT: They indeed did (and maybe still do?) make this coil for the Sovereign. I saw some debate on that in older threads but then ran across a few where people were using it on their Sovereign. However, I did a quick skim of Coiltek's site and didn't see a Sovereign version listed. There is also debate as to what it's actual size was. I suspect it was 11.5x8.5 because that's what the few old threads I found said it was. The 12x8 specs for the picture of one below I got off Coiltek's site are the Etrac/Explorer FBS version. Perhaps for them it's 12x8 but the old Sovereign version was 11.5x8.5 as a few old threads referenced? Also, I think I *vaguely* remember seeing a picture of the Sovereign version of the Platypus and I think it was solid, not looking like the FBS version below? Not sure about that though...

Either way, never saw much buzz or message traffic in my searches for this coil. Even less than the Joey in fact, and the Joey didn't have much either. That should tell people something. Much more posts about the S-5 or the 5/6 Excelerator coil(s).

I'll not bother to post info or thread links to this coil either. Like the Joey, it has such a unique name you can do that searching yourself.

 

[Critterhunter]

I dug up a quote on this coil from somebody on it's actual size..."I have the Detech 5" Excelerator S Coil. The actual diameter of the coil is 4 3/4 inches."

That's pretty small then because the S-5 is 5.5" and to me looks like a hockey puck, so for even more extremely severe trash people might want to opt for the Excelerator, although the S-5 is one tiny little coil and I don't see how it could get much better separation wise. I did see one review where a guy said the S-5 got more depth for him, was more stable, and that he just liked the S-5 over all better. But, I've never really read any bad remarks about the Excelerator so take that with a grain of salt. The FBS guys for sure seem to love them.

Below is a picture I dug up from Matthias of the Excelerator. I'm assuming it's the same coil the above quote talks about size wise because Matthias called it a 5" coil. However, note the name of the coil in the picture while the quote above called is an "S" coil. The mysterey of potential versions/sizes of the Detech Excelerator trash coil(s) continues. As said, I *think* there might be two Excelerators out there...A 5 and a 6". If I had to guess I *think* they replaced the 5" with a 6" but it might have been the reverse of that, if they ever did in fact make a coil in both sizes? Still not sure about that, but I do believe whichever one was the last (if there were two) is still being made in a Sovereign version and Kellyco still carries it far as I know. I guess you'd have to call and ask somebody who knows like JW. But with the above "S" coil name and the pic of Matthias's below, now I'm wondering if there are even a few versions of a 5" coil as well too? Either way, the coil below looks like it's probably a 4 & 3/4" coil like the size described above in the quote.

I think I'll shoot off a PM to JW and see if he can clear this up for me to post- were there two size coils, and were there a few versions of each or something...As well as what the current version Detech makes for the Sovereign is.

The pic below I think says "Multiple Harmonic Wideband DD Searchcoil".

 

[Critterhunter]

Welp, a bit of the mystery is cleared up concerning my remarks about a "new" 8" Excelerator search coil at Kellyco for the Sovereign that I saw show up a few months back on their site but never looked into the details on it. I had previously speculated this was either a new DD Excelerator in an 8" size or that it was a mislabled 5/ 6" Excelerator coil(s) for the Sovereign. Nope! Just looked, and it is the 8" Concentric Excelerator coil talked about before! This 8" concentric for the Sovereign had disappeared a year or so ago off their site as far as I know, but then a few months back I noticed a 8" coil again being listed for the Sovereign. Finally looked into it to see what it was. If anybody has used this coil please let us know how you like it and if it's a true 8" coil...

http://www.kellycodetectors.com/minelab/sovereignelite-accessories.htm#!lightbox

 

[Critterhunter]

My memory must have been wrong, as Coiltek shows the platypus for the Sovereign as an open framed coil and not a solid one. I didn't see the Sovereign version for sale on their site but I didn't look well. This is an older pic of all their coils they make for the Sovereign that I ran across...

 

[Critterhunter]

Far as I know the early versions, which were said not to be as good, were called the Penetrators, but I did read where somebody said that was just the name of the European versions of the Excelerators. It might be that the old versions were just called Excelerators and that the new ones are called Excelerator EQ2 coils. In fact, I think that's probably right to tell the old from the new from what I gather. Either way, I have seen more than a few references to there being old versions of this coil that weren't good. Detech still makes them for the Sovereign but I don't think Kellyco carries them anymore. Hardly any press on these coils out there so that should say something maybe, but I have ran across a few threads where guys seem to like them for at least beach hunting, while a few others said there were a bit unstable and too "hot". That might have been talking about the old version of this coil though, because I remember that was the complaint with the original ones and as said the newer ones are said to be better.

I've the 14" Detech Penetrator and the Sunray 12" and they both weigh in at exactly the same weight. Sensitivity edge goes to the S 12 but the Detech is a bit deeper on larger targets.
Sunray build quality is great but the Detech's, though looking O.K. can have slight warps which can effect the performance which could exclude them from being a good buy from E-Bay.

And a thread compared to the S-12 and such