PERRY STONE--RAPTURE

[C.J.M.]

PERRY STONE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ei0jsEQ7cSA

 

[Missouri--Ma Betty]

Thank you for posting this about Perry Stone and the Rapture of the Saints! He is very anointed and I listen to him on TV, but his sermons aren't as long and this one is really good! I have studied the Bible and his godly wisdom reveals God's Holy Word by the revelation and guidance of His Holy Spirit within Perry! He has studied and is more knowledgeable of the Bible than I am, but I know what he says is true by the revelation of God's Holy Spirit within me and brings even more depth to the Scriptures than what I am able to comprehend! I praise the Lord for preachers like him who stand by Jesus in faith and keep preaching the true word of God without watering it down or changing the true meaning of it! If we know the Word of God that it is Truth, than the truth will set us free! May God Bless and may Jesus come and redeem His own to be with Him forever in His beautiful and glorious city of gold! I pray everyone is saved and ready to meet Him in the air to forever be with our Lord! Amen! Ma Betty

 

[donlor4u]

Hi,
I was saved in a pentecostal church (42 years ago) that had it’s own bible school & a high regard for rightly dividing the word of God. Since I had a family & was working I never attended the school but did a lot of studying on my own.
One important “doctrine” I could never find biblical proof of was the so-called “second baptism” & actually, quite to the contrary, scripture taught that there was but ONE baptism. This started me on carefully comparing what I heard or read from what the bible taught. I only ascribe to what the bible clearly teaches us to be & do as there is more than enough there to keep me busy for the rest of my earthly life! I will be called to account for what I have accepted to be truth & therefore believe. This is the clear responsibility of all believers.
The internet has proven to be a great tool in that I can do a quick check on most peoples ministry in a few minutes. I typed in “critique Perry Stone” & found some very interesting information on some of the dangerous things he affirms to be truth. I am not against anyone but only for the truth as that is what is scripture is.

 

[Missouri--Ma Betty]

There are two baptisms....one in water where a person goes under from being a sinner and comes up a Christian, as a Child of God! The other is in the Book of Acts where by faith, we are baptized with the Holy Ghost! There were many saved but had not the baptism of the Holy Ghost for they had not heard of it, so in Jesus' name they received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost! It takes the Spirit and the water be born again in Christ Jesus, but it takes the Baptism of God's Holy Spirit to give us the power to endure and overcome all things! There is a difference and I truly know by the Word of God and His baptizing me with the Holy Spirit! I have studied the Bible for many years, as I thirsted after the word when I was truly saved in 1986, although I had known about Jesus since a baby old enough to know and understand, but I didn't know Him, personally, as my own personal Savior and Lord....I was baptized in water and then through prayer by my Sister-in-Law, Wanda, I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost...Who has made a big difference in living my life and in studying God's Holy Word, for He guides and leads us into all truth!

Those who don't believe in Perry Stone's teachings and preachings..just have not studied and sought God's wisdom to understand and have the revelation that Perry has after his years of study and dedication by studying not only the Bible but what others have written and has learned the meaning of Hebrew during that time! If others don't believe or understand where Perry Stone is coming from....do not condemn him for He is an anointed servant of God and so am I, but not to the depth of his biblical and spiritual education! What others cannot understand is ascertained as foolish and dangerous but God is mysterious and miraculous in all His ways and to know Him is to learn of Him in the name of Jesus, so we can worship Him in Spirit and in Truth!

I know Bill understands where I and Perry are coming from by the Baptism of the Holy Ghost rec through faith and prayer many times after water baptism, but some people rec both and the speaking of tongues all at one time...I didn't but after believing faith and prayer, I rec. the Holy Ghost and many of the gifts including speaking in tongues and giving interpretations along with laying on the hands and praying for the healing of the sick....sometimes they were healed; sometimes not....only God knows why some are healed and some are not! I post on FB and those who don't have the true revelations of God's Holy Spirit, sure do persecute those who post the true words of the Bible....but just believe God loves us and all will go to heaven by having eternal life, but not so, for Jesus provided a way of salvation and that is submitting to Him in humbleness and seeking and serving Him, faithfully, unto the end of mortal life's race! Yes, we run a race which we must finish with Jesus by serving Him, faithfully, as a true believing Child of God! May God Bless and increase our faith with godly wisdom as we seek, study and pray for God's Holy Spiritual guidance, Who leads us into all truth and not just by hearing others but by our own seeking and finding what is true in the Bible for ourselves by asking God to help us! Amen! Ma

 

[donlor4u]

Hi,
first, let me start by saying I am not trying to be contentious. I only adhere to what scripture clearly teaches - not that which man propounds to be “revelation.” there is enough truth & exhortations in matt 5, matt 22:37 & 1 cor 13 to keep me engaged with doing these things for the rest of my life!
I find it presumptuous for you to state “Those who don't believe in Perry Stone's teachings and preachings..just have not studied and sought God's wisdom to understand and have the revelation that Perry has...” you have no idea of how much time I have spent studying to make sure that whatever I believe IS sound scriptural truth because this is what God calls all believers to. It is interesting do a word search & to look at what is taught about adhering to doctrine & sound teaching. I personally keep away from anyone who claims to have “revelations.”
Any sound student of scripture knows that you never use history to prove a doctrine (i.e. - the second baptism) but that historical passages are only used to support a clearly taught truth.
As for Acts 8:14-17 look at http://www.thevillagechurch.net/the-village-blog/dealing-with-difficult-texts-acts-814-25/
http://www.desiringgod.org/messages/what-does-it-mean-to-receive-the-holy-spirit
you have not given any scripture that CLEARLY teaches of the need for a “second baptism”
there is ample clear scripture that teaches that there is only the need for ONE baptism in the spirit. John 3:3-5, Romans 6:3-4, Romans 10:9-13, 1Corinthians 12:13, Galatians 3:26-27, Ephesians 4:4-6
One thing to do when searching for the true meaning of scripture is to find out what the tenses of the words are because this explains much about the particular scripture. Also, a good expository dictionary of the greek is invaluable.
As for perry - I have not listened to him or read anything by him - what I said in my first post was just to alert you that he might be somebody to be careful about.

 

[C.J.M.]

HMMMM-------plain and simple------------GODS word does not say you have to be baptized TWICE for the salvation of your SoulThis is just confusion between protestant denominations since foreverHave you ever WONDERED why there so MANY denominations in the CHRISTAN so called religionWHY,WHY,WHY------------because MAN brought it on himself its either our way or the highwayEither you believe our church believes or else
TO start off GOD did not bring religion to this world he brought ''A WAY OF LIFE THROUGH HIS SON JESUS".Without JESUS you are lost and separated from heaven and bound to Gods word says "The baptism of the HOLY GHOST WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES IS THE SIGN TO THE LOST ,JUST LIKE WHEN THE APOSTLES WHO WERE IN THE UPPER ROOM WAITING,AND THE HOLY GHOST FELL ON THEM LIKE TONGUES OF FIRE.GUESS WHAT HAPPENED ,THEY ALL BEGAN TO SPEAK IN DIFFERENT TONGUES AS THE HOLY SPIRIT GAVE THEM UTTERANCE.So you SAY why did this happened ,because there were all kinds of dialects being spoken from all over the COUNTRY---AND THEY ALL UNDERSTOOD AND THEY THOUGHT THE APOSTLES WERE DRUNK
DO not get this confused with the baptism of water----UNLESS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE THIS BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT ,YOU CAN ARGUE UNTIL YOU TURN BLUE IN THE FACETHE speaking in tongues are for those who desire a deeper experience with the lord-----AND "NO'' YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE IT TO GO TO HEAVEN ---LIKE SOME WHO PREACH IT.!!!YOU have to seek it ,but do not believe GOD CANNOT FILL A PERSON IF HE CHOOSES!
THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY GHOST, STRENGTHENS YOUR SPIRIT FOR THE GLORY GOD AND AT TIMES THE LORD WILL FOLLOW IT WITH A CERTAIN ANOINTMENT FOR HIS GLORY!!!This are gifts of the holy spirit found in the Book of Corinthians.IF get a chance seek books of a SMITH WIGGLEWORTH FROM ENGLAND ,Seek how the LORD used SMITH you would never believe the miracles this man of GOD done in the name of the LORDThis man started in the coal mines of England at the age of SEVEN:yikes
WE as some Christians doubt what MIRACLES GOD does everyday and miss them because we just do not believe,I JUST RECEIVED A HEALING MIRACLE THAT STUNT MY DOCTORSGOD is still in the MIRACLE BUSINESS FOLKS.

 

[donlor4u]

Hi,
first, scripture NOWHERE says that you are to be, or can be baptized twice!
Scripture teaches one baptism but many “fillings” in Ephesians 5:18. These fillings are directly proportional to how completely you yield yourself to the Spirit.
the following is from http://www.christinyou.net/pages/fillingofspirit.html
The verb "be filled" in Ephesians 5:18 is in an imperative mood. It is not an option of the Christian life; it is obligatory.
The verb "be filled" in Ephesians 5:18 is in the passive voice, meaning that the subject ("you all") of the verb is being acted upon by another. The Spirit of God is acting upon us. This does not mean that we are merely passive agents.
The verb "be filled" in Ephesians 5:18 is a present tense. "Keep being filled with the Spirit." This is not a static, once-and-for-all experience, but the dynamic continuity of the Spirit's control. It is possible to be being filled by the Holy Spirit at one moment in time and not the next.
The intent of God is that the filling of the Holy Spirit should commence as soon as the Spirit of Christ comes to dwell in us at regeneration. Many Christians are untaught concerning God's functional intent in mankind. Some, therefore, refer to a "second work of grace" subsequent to regeneration.
Also look at http://www.christinyou.net/pages/fogman.html
when we are converted, born-again, regenerated, saved, baptized in the Spirit - it is a once & never again event. How our christian life progresses from this reality is completely dependent on as to how totally we obey scripture & yield to the individual leadings of the Spirit.
as for baptism - The clearest example that shows the meaning of baptizo is a text from the Greek poet and physician Nicander, who lived about 200 B.C. It is a recipe for making pickles and is helpful because it uses both words. Nicander says that in order to make a pickle, the vegetable should first be 'dipped' (bapto) into boiling water and then 'baptised' (baptizo) in the vinegar solution. Both verbs concern the immersing of vegetables in a solution. But the first is temporary. The second, the act of baptising the vegetable, produces a permanent change. When used in the New Testament, this word more often refers to our union and identification with Christ than to our water baptism. e.g.Mark 16:16. 'He that believes and is baptised shall be saved'. Christ is saying that mere intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a union with him, a real change, like the vegetable to the pickle!

 

[calabash digger]

Not many have went to the level of studying your talking about above my post , when you start quoting tenses and voice that has no meaning . I do understand studied the greek for a few years myself and read alot of the new testament in the greek. I basically turned my house into a seminary and spent 5 years there studying 8 to 10 hours a day sometimes.First and foremost I studied the bible, I was not brought up in a christian home so I had no preconcived beliefs that had been ingrained in me. DOCTRINES Ive studied baptist doctrine,pentecostal doctrine,methodist,catholic, debated jehovah witnesses, mormon doctrine,witnesses and mormons are cults and all kinds of other doctrines. Studied the earliest christian writings out side the bible church fathers, reformation and church history. I found out that when a person holds a belief whether its true or not they most likely will not change it even if you show clear evidence to the contrary! I rarely debate scripture anymore found it to be a no win most of the time. I will give you a prime example the rapture teaching that stone teachs where did it come from? I know most will say the bible thats not what im asking. when did it start being taught in the church?you can go back and study the church for 1800 years and its no where to be found ! That teaching came about in the 1800s when a young girl had a vision of a partial rapture and she told a preacher about it and he started pushing the doctrine or better yet creating it. Then Ci Scoffeild went over to england and done a study bible and he put it in there and the rest is history.Now its one of the most beloved teachings around . Now by this time I can hear people saying hes just not spiritual he doesnt have the gift and so forth BUT i have just one question for you. The pre trib preachers say we will be raptured before the man of lawlessness is revealed (anti christ) correct? Paul penned in Thess 4:16-17 that we would be gathered to the Lord dead in Christ first and then the living would be called up or gathered to the Lord correct? Stone would say the anti christ would revealed now and the great tribulation would start for seven years correct? okay does the bible teach that lets see please turn to 2Thess 2:1-4 okay pay close attention Paul is speaking to fellow believers about them being gathered to Christ that he also spoke of in 1thess 4:16-17 now heres the question in verse 3-4 is the anti christ revealed before or after the church is gathered to Christ? I will take Pauls word he says that day will not come (the day we are gathered to Christ that he spoke of in ver 1 and 1Thess 4:16-17 unless the anti christ is revealed first and the rebellion occurs! That day he speaks of is the day we are gathered to Christ in verse 1.PLEASE answer the question honestly before or after the church is gathered to Christ? My point exactly God bless btw some will say Perry Stone has studied the bible for a hundred thousand hours I would add to that hes probaly made hundred million dollars off Christians too on TBN begging for money birds of a feather flock together ! Someone who read what I just wrote about the beginnings of that doctrine please just google where did the pre trib rapture start. HERE is clear evidence that something fishy is going on with this doctrine now watch what happens!

 

[Missouri--Ma Betty]

I have watched Perry Stone and he doesn't really beg for money, but does say he needs to support his programs, so he sells CDs and etc. for those who would like to buy them! I haven't bought them but I do like Perry, for at least 95% of his teachings I believe and agree with, for they go with what I have studied and learned from studying God's WORD by asking God to help me with what He wants me to know and understand! Perry started when he was saved at the age of 18 and has studied more and more since then! There are a few things that I haven't believed, but doesn't mean I am right and he is wrong.....just haven't reached the full knowledge as yet, for we see as through a glass darkly!
I believe in the mid-rapture because of the 42 months by having studied it out myself! But other preachers I have heard tell it differently about what 1 Thess 4: 16-17 means!

We are saved unto Jesus and His eternal life by believing faith in Him and sincerely turning from committing sin willfully and we can escape temptation to not sin by leaning on and trusting in Jesus by God's Holy Spirit, Who gives us power to endure and overcome all things! I know Perry Stone is whom I like to hear, because he believes more of how I believe than many other preachers, but I like John Hagee, too....but haven't heard him for awhile! If others don't agree and have problems with what he says, then they have their own views but we must be careful about what we say about God's anointed ones called to preach and etc., for He says not to harm His anointed ones, and they are when saved and doing what God Word says....but may differ in some views that many don't understand or haven't come to the full knowledge of God, as yet...doesn't mean it is wrong or right! What is the problem is when preachers don't preach the truth and don't teach against sinning and so many now think that anything they do is okay, for God gave them life and loves them....not understanding or admitting that Jesus died to save us from our sins and give us eternal life in His Kingdom! God is love and He is also a God of Wrath and gives each sinner a chance to repent of sin and accept Jesus as their own personal Savior and Lord but if they mortally die with unforgiven sins and unbelief in God's Holy Spirit they will be cast into the Lake of Fire where the worm (tormenting of the conscience) never dies! You see those who do not have the anointing just do not understand what God can and will do to Bless them and make His own Children's lives better! He has done so many things in my life to prove Himself to me that there is no way I can ever deny Him and He has performed miracles to reveal Himself to me and, therefore, I have no doubt in Who He is.....The King of kings and Lord of lords Who loves me with an everlasting love and I love Him so much I don't want to deny or shame Him in any way! Amen! God Bless you all! Ma

 

[donlor4u]

Hi,
I have never studied greek but do know the great importance of tenses and placement in the greek because this is what “flavors” what is written & allows for a completer understanding of what God has chosen to reveal to us.
http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/inter-tense.htm
http://ezraproject.com/id27.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/Greek-Hebrew-Bible.html
http://www.ibiblio.org/koine/greek/lessons/noun2dcl.html
as for the tribulation teachings, I have read on them but never really bothered to study them as I found the subject disinteresting. Accordingly, I consider myself a pan-tribulationist - that it will all pan out in end according to God’s purposes. Whether it is pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib is less important to me then how one’s life will be lived during such times.
I personally consider most all of the “preachers” apostles” “bishops” “evangelists” etc. that are on tbn to be wolves in sheeps clothing who are fleecing the flock! Take for example the insidious “faith healing” garbage they promote. what a disgusting catch-22 they have - if you are NOT healed it is because you did not have enough faith.
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1454-6-tricks-i-learned-as-faith-healer-for-scamming-you.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-healers.html
I was saved & started out in a pentecostal church that honored the bible & had a good bible school. The senior pastor would always admonish us not to believe what he preached but to search the scriptures ourselves to make sure that what he preached was an accurate exposition of scripture. This I did. At the time I was a private contractor & took 2 things to work with me - a radio & cassette player. I would listen to christian radio or tapes of scripture or sermons. This is all I listened to for about 5 years. Over time I acquired an extensive personal library & spent too much time reading. During this time I studied the “second-baptism” & found it to false as it was presented. But, since the church majored on personal sanctification I could continue my fellowship there.
After moving I went to an evangelical church for about 7 years & then to another pentecostal church for another 7 years. They were both good, sound churches. When the second pentecostal church began to major on the “second-baptism” & prophetic ministry I engaged in written dialogue with the pastor about this. (My wife was the worship leader & I ran the sound at this church) I transcribed all that was “prophesied” & never came to be.
We ended up leaving & going to another evangelical church where again my wife was the worship leader & I again ran the sound - this also was for about 7 years until the pastor moved on & another pastor took over who was more of a ceo than shepherd so we left & moved on. Why all this digression - I don’t know - but since I typed it I will leave it.
Back to my original assertion - the “second-baptism” as it is promulgated is NOT true & nobody can give scripture that proves it to be something valid to seek after or aspire to.

 

[calabash digger]

I will give another example my brother above quoted touch not the Lords anointed when that was written who did it refer to? Modern false preachers like to apply to themselves to protect themselves. Heres my question how do you know im not the Lords annointed? Let me guess because I dont believe what you believe. I can pluck scripture from the bible and apply it to myself and make it say about whatever I want it to but I want do that because I fear God, These guys are trained experts in greed and fleece Gods flock their end will not be good. once you start believing these guys have special revelation your in trouble! The bible is not a riddle book only to be understood by a few thats what the catholics did and took it away from the people and once they did that they had control. I have the Spirit myself and can read and understand scripture some text are harder than others and where the trouble starts is when they take the vague scriptures and start putting their own spin on it like they got some kind of special revelation. Some fellowships have done away with the bible all together because of the new prophetic movement thats right done away with the bible. Hagee preachs tithing will make you prosper and his ministry was 12 million in debt thats kinda ironic to my brother above who said they wovles you are correct !

 

[Missouri--Ma Betty]

Just wanted to say that I don't listen to TBN and don't agree with their prosperity teachings, either! I think and study for myself and as far as I know John Hagee and Perry Stone have their own TV stations and programs and only appeared on TB on certain occasions! I know what I know by God's Holy Spiritual leading and according to His Holy Word His truth has set me free! If you want to believe different than I do or other preachers...good for you as this shows you are studying to show yourself a workman approved of God! We are all human and have different interpretations of what the Word says...but I know when His Holy Spirit moves upon me and I know when He does that it is true and I can rely on it! I know the difference between my own thoughts and the thoughts of God, for His thoughts are higher than my thoughts and often my selfish flesh gets in the way, and that is when I ask God to help me to understand and if I am wrong from what others say or they are wrong then He shows me by my asking, seeking and finding! Do I err? Oh yes, for I am human and cannot remember like I used to, so though I know the word from studying it, I can't always quote exactly what I mean or the scriptures without looking them up and I don't always do that with the health problems I have and it takes longer to do anything that I used to do in a lot less time!

I am sure you have studied and know what the Lord says more than me, most likely....so I won't argue with you! As long as we know the basics of Jesus' virgin birth, death and resurrection and have accepted Him as our own personal, Lord and Savior and keep following Him in His path of light by studying and learning the truth of His Holy Word, we shall be okay and ready for being caught up into the air and to forever be with our Lord! I know that when we serve the Lord as He would have us do, we will be persecuted and I am on FB, for I am not above my Master, Who was persecuted more than any of us will ever be!

I hope and pray all of us have our faith in Jesus and He is the One and Only God, Who is Savior of all sinners, but we must believe and accept Him to be a Child of God as an adopted Jew into His Kingdom! I only wish each of you well in Jesus' name and since we are baptized in water when we are first saved and then some of us rec the Baptism of the Holy Spirit afterwards, to me that is two baptisms, but the only One that really saves us and gives us the power to endure and overcome all things, along with a way of escape when tempted by satan, is God's Holy Ghost (Spirit)! May God Bless us and keep us on His straight and narrow road leading into new Jerusalem City where His faithful saints live and reign forever more! Amen! Ma Betty

 

[calabash digger]

MA im not arguring but True teachers dont share the stage with the false ones they expose them ! Paul exposed the fasle brothers he didnt share the stage with them on ocassion and he surely did not raise money for them, the problem with wolves is they are great speakers if they were not they couldnt fool anyone. The bible says contend for the faith earnestly and thats all im doing and trying to open my brothers and sisters eyes to these people but like I said above people have their beliefs and most of the time hold them so dear that they wont change them even if they are shown evidence that they are wrong and thats why I dont debate scripture much anymore.Sorry if I offended anyone. The bible says in 2 Jn 10-11 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. (We should be very careful of who we support according to this text)

 

[Justme]

Im interested to know where the Bible mentions a rapture. What do you suppose is going to happen? I read in the book of Revelation that there will be a great crowd which no man was able to number coming out of a great tribulation. This can be found in chapter 7. Go back a few books to Matthew 24:21-22 where Jesus mentioned a " great tribulation" which was to be cut short so that some flesh could be saved. Read it for yourselves please. Now remember Revelation mentioned a great crowd coming out of the great tribulation? This apparently occurs on earth. Revelation also tells us how many go to heaven in ch 14.
One of the signs of the last days is found at Matthew 24:14. Its very interesting how Paul was inspired to write in his letter to the Ephesians ch 4:5. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Last I recall there are some 41+ thousand different Christian denominations. Which one of these is endeavoring to fulfill Jesus command to preach the good news as he instructed prior to his departure to heaven found at Matthew 28:19-20? Mind you this is a direct command. To tie this in we can find out what Gods will is at 1 Timothy 2:4. Basically all sorts of men come to an accurate knowledge of truth. That would entail great organization along with translation into many languages. Which organization is doing this?

 

[donlor4u]

Hi,
all I know for sure is one thing - that the end times are upon us. How many years are these - only God knows. The end time countdown started with the reconstitution of the state of Israel. I have but one obligation - to be approved as a faithful servant. Matthew 7 is sobering.
Wycliffe Global Alliance is an alliance of organizations united in their desire to see the Bible translated for every language group that needs it. There are currently over 100 Wycliffe member organizations from over 60 countries. Wycliffe Global Alliance is also a member of the Forum of Bible Agencies International. The Forum of Bible Agencies International is an alliance of more than 25 international Bible Agencies and other missions organizations which provides access to the Bible and encourages its use worldwide. The Forum provides standards for Bible translation and opportunities for the collaboration of Bible Agencies in many different countries. The members of the Forum of Bible Agencies International do work in more than 120 countries and are headquartered in five different nations.
The word homosexual is not in the bible. But, scripture it clearly teaches how God judges homosexuality - Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-28, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Accordingly, I do not call homosexuals gay - the nicest thing I call them is homosexual. As descriptive terms for them I call them perverse, detestable, depraved, evil.
I have only one obligation - to be BIBLICALLY correct in what I call someone or something. I despise this political correctness as it has made for mindlessness. What is happening in our institutes of “higher learning is nothing but pathetic - evil masquerading as fair-minded goodness! This is one of the primary reasons this presidential election is SO IMPORTANT. The new supreme court justices will have tremendous sway over the future of our blessed nation. I will vote for trump.

 

[calabash digger]

Rapture comes from the latin word rapio I believe I spelled it correct its in the latin vulgate, and the rapture teaching comes from these verses 1 THESS 4:16- 18 its really the second coming of Christ notice the ressurrection of the dead and the the trumpet of God and cross reference to Rev 10:7 and 11 :15-19 and notice the ressurection in 1Cor 15:52 at what trumpet sound does it occur? (THE LAST ONE HOW MANY LAST TRUMPETS ARE THEIR) .You can google where did the rapture doctrine come from I posted above about it. 2 Thess 2 :1-12 will clear up when this event takes place notice verse 1 Paul is talking about our being gathered to Christ and read down and see what (MUST TAKE PLACE BEFORE WE ARE GATHERED TO CHRIST IN VERSES 3-4) and if you read on farther you will see what happens when Christ returns . notice Christ doesnt come and gather us in the middle either showing the mid trib doctrine to be flawed. I dont use the term rapture ITS really the second coming of Christ and there are not two phases to it either no one can produce a text that says it is either.People take the book of Revelation and twist it all kinds of ways because it symbolic and harder to understand. Heres a good rule take the plain text that are easier to understand and then check your interpretation of the harder text by them. The rapture doctrine is a western teaching were we have it so good because it teachs we are going to escape the suffering but go over to the lands where our brothers are being killed it wont fly there ! We will escape Gods wrath but not the suffering and persercution its one of those teachings thats going to hurt alot of believers because when the trouble starts and their still here well im sure some will doubt because they were taught they were gonna be gone. Jack Van impe likes to quote Rev 4:1 part of the verse and claim its the church being called up go read that verse and you will see the type of twisting they have to do. who was the voice speaking to in that text John or the church? They also like to say that the church is never mentioned again in revelation after that it is true that the word church is not but Christians are in Rev 13 :10 and notice what this text says (HERE IS A CALL FOR THE ENDURANCE AND FAITH OF THE SAINTS) AND REV 14:12 (HERE IS A CALL FOR THOSE WHO KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD AND THEIR FAITH IN JESUS). The book of revelation was written to help us go through this time and so we will know that these things must take place its part of Gods plan. I have some sobering news to my brothers and sisters get ready because we are gonna suffer for the cause of Christ you are not gonna be taken to heaven and watch the (NEW BELIEVERS WHO ARE SAVED IN THE GREAT TRIB GO THROUGH IT AND YOU ESCAPE IT) These modern day teachers have people duped with this teaching and to my brothers and sisters you aint getting no free pass from this event no matter how bad your teachers twist the bible. Ask yourself this question what is the purpose of the book of Revelation and please think on it and then read it.The book answers that question in verse one Rev 1:1-2 all to show us what MUST take place so when it happens we will not be unprepared and notice Matt 24:29 -31 please read and ask this question are we gathered before or after the great trib? Also if you have any doubts go back and read 2Thess2: 1-12 again are we gathered before or after the anti christ has been revealed? NOTICE what JESUS does when he comes he destoys the anti christ and gathers us. NOW you have a timeline of when 1 THESS 4:16-17 will take place. You might not believe what I just said but you cant refute it with any text because those text dont exist. Its another one of those satanic lies that are designed to put us to sleep and take our guard down . Please go research the rapture doctrine and why its not true look at the other side and test what you believe see if it stands up to scripture not just the ones they pluck and twist.( 2PET 2:2-3 and many will follow their sensuality and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed 3 and in their greed they will exploit you with false words.Their condemnation from long ago is not idle and their destruction is is not asleep.) (GREED) that is why these guys teach these ear tickiling doctrines of course its not all their fault either notice this text (2 TIM 4:3-4 FOR THE TIME IS COMING WHEN PEOPLE WILL NOT ENDURE SOUND TEACHING BUT HAVING ITCHING EARS THEY WILL ACCUMULATE FOR THEMSELVES TEACHERS TO SUIT THEIR OWN PASSIONS 4 AND WILL TURN AWAY FROM LISTENING TO THE TRUTH AND WANDER OFF INTO MYTHS) Thats whats the modern day rapture is a myth. ONE more question if anyone wants to answer it where did the modern day rapture teaching start? a vision of a little girl in the 1800s ? I hope someone gets blessed by this. ONE more question IS are all the T.v preachers who push these doctrines ( ARE THEY FILTHY RICH ?) ARE THEY? MY POINT EXACTLY

 

[C.J.M.]

WELL, BACK TO COMMON SENSE THINKING AS FAR AS EXPOSING DENOMINATIONS YOU COULD SPEND ALL DAY PICKING THIS AND PICKING THAT------"JESUS IS KING OF KINGS ,AND LORD OF LORDS";SAVIOR OF THE WORLD---HALLELUJAH ---AND WITHOUT HIM YOU ARE HEADED FOR ENTERNAL DAMNATION
THERES NOTHING SAID ABOUT GETTING BAPTISE TWICE FOR SALVATION.BUT YOU HAVE UNDERSTAND THE WORKS OF THE HOLY SPIRITBELIEVE ME I HAVE BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT,THINGS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT THAT HAPPENED TO ME THAT NOT EVEN MY PASTOR OF LONG AGO NEVER BELIEVED,BECAUSE I HAD COME FROM A SOUTHERN BAPTIST BACK GROUND.PEOPLE BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO BE THE POPE FOR GOD TO SPEAK TO A PERSON.I COULD SHARE THIS, BUT WHO WOULD BELIEVE THIS,BUT THE LORD HIMSELVE
THERE ARE LOT OF PROTESTENTS DENOMINATIONS THAT BELEVE IN THE "RATURE OF THE CHURCH". ,BUT THE WORD IS NOT FOUND IN THE BIBLE ,BUT ITS BACKED UP BY THE SAME THING"THE BLESSED HOPE."LIKE THE SNATCHING AWAY,SO YOU SEE THE BAPTISIM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS "THE ACENSION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT" ON AN INDIVIUAL, AND ITS ACCOMPANIED BY THE SPEAKING OF UNKNOWN TONGUES JUST LIKE IN THE UPPER ROOM WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT ACENDED ON THE BELEVERS,ALSO WHERE BELIVERS WERE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES.
HERE'S ANOTHER ONE"PAUL SAID TO BE GONE FROM THIS BODY,IS TO BE WITH THE LORD"SO YOUR SOUL GOES TO HEAVEN OR HELL AND YOUR BODY PARTS STAY IN A GRAVE.NOW AGAIN ITS NOT IN THE BIBLE THE WORD"PURGATORY" WHERE IS THIS PLACE?IT CANNOT BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE ,BUT PEOPLE ARGUE ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME,FROM MY UNDERSTANDING ITS A PLACE OF "HOLDING ONES SOUL" AND SUFFERING UNTIL THE CHURCH PRAYS YOU OUT OF ITSO AFTER THIS WHERE DOES THE SOUL GO TO???SO,I GUESS THE REST OF THE SOULS THAT DO NOT BELONG TO THIS CHURCH GO TO HELL. JUST GUESSING UNDER THIS CIRCUMSTANCES.GOOD DAY

 

[calabash digger]

HERES a good text on where believers go after they die Rev 6:9-11 When he opened the fifth seal I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne 10 They cried out with a loud voice O sovereign Lord holy and true how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete who were to be killed as they were. NOTICE they were not raptured and took away before the tribulation began and neither will you be notice what was written the church in the beginning of Revelation 2 :10 Do not fear what your about to suffer Behold the devil is about to throw some of you into prison that you may be tested and for 10 days you will have tribulation (BE FAITHFUL UNTO TO DEATH AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE CROWN OF LIFE 11 HE WHO HAS AN EAR LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CHURCHS. THE ONE WHO CONQUERS WILL NOT BE HURT BY THE SECOND DEATH), They were not raptured either before the tribulation started. C.J.M you seem to like perry stone can you tell me where the modern day rapture teaching started ? teenage girl vision of a partial rapture 1800s ? Is that where the doctrine started and then the preacher she told it to started creating the doctrine after that ? Is what I just asked true or not? I can tell you this doctrine did not exist before the 1800s no bible believing church taught it . Now about this sign seeking stuff going in the church today if its not in the bible im not accepting it holy laughter,people falling out,drunk on the spirit where is this type of stuff in the scripture? SHOW ME! there are text that say stuff like this but wait some will accuse me of blasphemy of the spirit again if you cant find a text to support your events well im not going to accept it. Speaking in tounges is in the bible but when asking a question about believers Paul says do all speak in tounges and in the greek text not like the english version it says NO! the greek shows you Pauls expected answer our english versions choose not to translate it. Ive got a question about speaking in tounges how many are to speak in a tounge in the church? CAN believers speak in a tounge in church if there is no interpreter? 1COR 14:27-28 is very clear! why do then so many churchs violate this clear teaching of scripture? Can a women speak in tounges in church? 1COR 14:33-35 its clear too . can they? This what the scripture says about seeking signs and wonders.( 1COR 1:22 FOR JEWS DEMAND SIGNS AND GREEKS SEEK WISDOM BUT WE PREACH CHRIST CRUCIFIED A STUMBLING BLOCK TO THE JEWS AND FOLLY TO THE GENTILES) . and another scripture says in ( 2 THESS 2:9 THE COMING OF THE LAWLESS ONE IS BY THE ACTIVITY OF SATAN WITH ALL POWER AND (FALSE SIGNS) AND WONDERS. What are false signs I will give an example a man brings his cancer ridden child to church on sunday a so called spirit filled church and and later in the service everyone starts speaking in tounges which violates Gods word and people fall out and holy giggiling starts and people are jumping around and prophesying and claiming the Holy Spirit is there working miracles and healing folks and then the service ends and the man carries his child out and he dies the next day and then the preacher protects himself by saying they didnt have enough faith! That is an evil false sign and wonder ! JESUS the true one does not operate that way he heals and restores and doesnt just tease people with a healing . WHere did the modern day tounge speaking movement start ? anyone know? look it up. To seeks signs and wonders is a dangerous game because there are so many false ones going on we are plague by them and people are saying they are from GOD.You would do much better to seek holiness and love and goodness but being the people we are to day we want an experience that makes us feel good all the time and thats where the devil can decieve us if we dont watch out not everthing that make us feel good is from God , the stuff going on today in the church is heart breaking !

 

[calabash digger]

The text you quoted about the speaking of (UNKNOWN TONGUES) well that text has caused much confusion in the body of Christ. The word unknown is not in the greek text it was put there by translators thats right people are holding a viewpoint about a doctrine on a word thats not even part of Holy writ! You can mark out the word unknown in your king james.

 

[donlor4u]

“YOU SEE THE BAPTISIM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS "THE ACENSION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT" ON AN INDIVIUAL, AND ITS ACCOMPANIED BY THE SPEAKING OF UNKNOWN TONGUES JUST LIKE IN THE UPPER ROOM WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT ACENDED ON THE BELEVERS,ALSO WHERE BELIVERS WERE BAPTISED IN THE NAME OF JESUS WITH THE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES.”
Pentecostals teach that the “second baptism” is in practical outworkings the most important component of spirituality. A purported sign that the “second baptism” has been bestowed is speaking in tongues. This is something that is supposed to be bestowed on all christians who sincerely seek after it. Yet, what says the scripture? 1 Cor is an epistle - TEACHING about what christianity is. 1 Cor 12 to 1 Cor 14 has much to say about spiritual gifts & tongues. If whatever one believes or lives does not comport to scripture then they are believing or living a lie.
1 Cor 12:7-11 is clear & unambiguous - the Spirit distributes gifts to each one, just as he determines. The gifts enumerated here are: wisdom, knowledge, faith, healing, miraculous powers, prophecy, distinguishing between spirits, speaking in different kinds of tongues, interpretation of tongues. It is noteworthy that each gift is separated from the other by “to another.” Also, verse 11 says - these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. This passage nowhere gives a hint that any one particular gift is given to all (i.e. - tongues) - as a matter of fact - it teaches just the opposite! Verses 12-31 elaborate & clarify the truth that the gifts are given according to the Spirit’s purposes. This whole chapter is quite easy to understand.
1 Cor 13 puts tongues (& other spiritual gifts) in their proper hierarchy - that tongues or other gifts are as nothing as compared to LOVE.
1 Cor 14 further elaborates on tongues. It hardly exalts tongues as pentecostalism does. Also, notably - nowhere in these chapters is there any hint of a “second baptism.”
You may fairly ask why I vigorously contend against the “second baptism” teaching. 1) it is totally unscriptural 2) it puts people in the position of seeking something that is not of the Spirit thereby opening them to receive a deceiving spirit 3) it is akin to the “faith healing” travesty - in the same manner in that you do not receive your healing because your faith is too weak you do not get “tongues” because you are not worthy of it, or not spiritual enough, etc.
let me briefly mention another falsity - being “slain in the spirit.” one thing is most noteworthy about this - that the people “fall” backwards in this experience of God’s supposedly touching them. Take the time to find all the scriptural references to when people fell under the touch of God - it is always that they fell on their face! Why does scripture bother to specify how people fell? So that we would have guidance.