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Minelab just released the X-Terra 70
- Thread starter JW
- Start date
Doug[Manila]
New member
Jbow,
As for me, I already have a Vaquero and don't see that I would get a Tejon. I have two Minelabs - a Quattro and a Sov XS2aPro. I think ML makes some of the best detectors.
But I agree with what you said...
"I do think in a hobby as small as metal detecting Minelab could have, and should have let everyone know that the 70 was coming. It would have cost them some XT50 sales but the good will among the community would have been something that money cannot buy. It would have fostered a trust."
Some people bought the XT50 because they wanted the higher model. If they knew there would be a XT70 that would be coming out in a few months, some would have liked the added features and waited to buy the top of the line. Keeping the dealers in the dark also shows a lack of transparency...if I had just purchased a XT50, I'd be irritated myself and this move by ML would have placed their dealers in bad light.
As for me, I already have a Vaquero and don't see that I would get a Tejon. I have two Minelabs - a Quattro and a Sov XS2aPro. I think ML makes some of the best detectors.
But I agree with what you said...
"I do think in a hobby as small as metal detecting Minelab could have, and should have let everyone know that the 70 was coming. It would have cost them some XT50 sales but the good will among the community would have been something that money cannot buy. It would have fostered a trust."
Some people bought the XT50 because they wanted the higher model. If they knew there would be a XT70 that would be coming out in a few months, some would have liked the added features and waited to buy the top of the line. Keeping the dealers in the dark also shows a lack of transparency...if I had just purchased a XT50, I'd be irritated myself and this move by ML would have placed their dealers in bad light.
Mike Bearden
Member
Of course this is only my opinion but I think the way Minelab began it's introduction of the X-Terra line was pure genius in more ways than one.
Not only did they put their newest detector out there for testing in the hands of folks like Andy Sabisch and other tech-no type testers, but also gambled and put them in the hands of many others not so well known, and in larger numbers than I've ever seen a manufacturer do.
With the overall results they got and we constantly see posted on the forums ... well, it turned out to NOT be such a gamble on their end at all.
The X-Terra series are now one of the hottest selling detectors on the planet, and for good reason, they are well designed, easy to use, and extremely potent.
I have YET to take the X-Terra ANYWHERE that it wouldn't perform admirably, matter of fact, it usually performs better than detectors that cost much more and without the weight factor.
Now we have the X-70 show it's face, guess what ? It has everything that most posters have wished for that the 50 didn't have.
Well almost everything, I can appreciate why some folks have asked for a back-light but also understand why Minelab didn't offer it too.
Battery consumption and the extra weight factor for batteries needed to run it, plain and simple !
Job well done Minelab
Mike
Not only did they put their newest detector out there for testing in the hands of folks like Andy Sabisch and other tech-no type testers, but also gambled and put them in the hands of many others not so well known, and in larger numbers than I've ever seen a manufacturer do.
With the overall results they got and we constantly see posted on the forums ... well, it turned out to NOT be such a gamble on their end at all.
The X-Terra series are now one of the hottest selling detectors on the planet, and for good reason, they are well designed, easy to use, and extremely potent.
I have YET to take the X-Terra ANYWHERE that it wouldn't perform admirably, matter of fact, it usually performs better than detectors that cost much more and without the weight factor.
Now we have the X-70 show it's face, guess what ? It has everything that most posters have wished for that the 50 didn't have.
Well almost everything, I can appreciate why some folks have asked for a back-light but also understand why Minelab didn't offer it too.
Battery consumption and the extra weight factor for batteries needed to run it, plain and simple !
Job well done Minelab
Mike
As far as what JBow said, I couldn't agree more. An announcement such as "X-Terra 70 Coming Soon!" would have satisfied people who wanted to get the latest and greatest. If folks knew it would cost $200 more than the X-50, then they could have made the decision as to whether they wanted to spend the extra money on the added features or not. When X-Box announced the 360, sales of the original X-Box increased. That is documented fact. The buzz of the 360 picked up lagging original X-Box sales. I bought my 50 two weeks ago, and I'm happy with it. I'm still using the original batteries. If I had known that the 70 was coming out, I may have waited. Now, that's another $200 Minelab will never get from me. Great machine, but I'll never spend another dime on a Minelab. To kind of sum up what Andy said, all the detectors are pretty good, and no company wants to put out a bad one. I've owned Tesoro's for years, made a tough decision to buy the 50 over a Tesoro, and now I realize I made a huge mistake. The X-50 may be the holy grail of detectors for all I know, but I appreciate a company, such as Tesoro, being straight with me. The Tejon came out---and then the Cibola and the Vaquero. That's the way to do it. I don't like getting screwed, but I guess some of us do. I grabbed my Tejon yesterday, and it didn't let me down. The X-50 was still sitting on the deck of my boat when I got home, and it'll sit there until Monday, when I move it to hitch up the boat to go to a tournament.
Mike Bearden
Member
I use a GT and it's the best Sovereign ever built as far as I'm concerned. You are absolutely right about the Sunray coil too. When you get one and use it for the first time it's going to feel like you are almost having to push the coil down to the ground compared to the 10". BIG difference in weight and balance improvement, it's the perfect coil for the GT IMO. You won't suffer much depth loss either, that much I can promise you.
H.H.
Mike
H.H.
Mike
Doug[Manila]
New member
BarnacleBill,
Agree about the secrecy but this is more than just about the competition but the trust connection with their customers which I think is a more vital bond than protecting their first-to-market strategy.
I'd fully agree if this was just like buying candy...where you can buy a different flavor or brand the next day but we are talking about spending $600 for the XT50...and have a higher model with more features come out in a matter of months.
Dealers know their customers' needs and they would have been in a good position to recommend the machine with the best fit.
Those who have been burnt from this will hold out on their next ML purchase...wondering if marketing thought this through enough and saw more upside to this
Agree about the secrecy but this is more than just about the competition but the trust connection with their customers which I think is a more vital bond than protecting their first-to-market strategy.
I'd fully agree if this was just like buying candy...where you can buy a different flavor or brand the next day but we are talking about spending $600 for the XT50...and have a higher model with more features come out in a matter of months.
Dealers know their customers' needs and they would have been in a good position to recommend the machine with the best fit.
Those who have been burnt from this will hold out on their next ML purchase...wondering if marketing thought this through enough and saw more upside to this
Andy Sabisch
Active member
Mike,
You are right in that Minelab took a gamble sending out dozens of test units for the X-30 and X-50 release to people that had NO tie to the company and were given free reign to post anything about the units . . . could have been a real negative PR opportunity but is was not as we all know from the forums.
As far as people being upset that they were not told about the pending release of the X-70, when should that have been announced? When it was being developed with no firm release date? I can think of several detectors that were announced yet took months or years to actually hit the market. The X-70 has a number of additions which took far longer to iron out than the engineers had anticipated.
Even the X-30 and X-50 were released well after they had planned to be. The first plans were laid in 2004 and I for one had the 1st model in the field in early 2005 . . . . . months before they were released which was well after the original planned release date.
I do not know of any manufacturer that has announced a model months in advance expecting to release it months down the road. If it is announced, it is because it is expected soon. And then no matter when you announce it, someone will have bought a model it is replacing or building on that will feel they were slighted.
How about cars? You buy one and the next week they come out with a mid-year redesign???? My MIL was looking at the Toyota Camry and yesterday saw the newly designed 2007 at the dealer . . . . she's glad she did not buy the '06 but what if she had? Fair . . . . I'm sure the person that just bought the old one would not think so but unfortunately that is business.
Several people have PM'd me wanting to know why I did not say anything - even indirectly - on the forums about a new unit coming out. First of all, I signed an agreement that said I would not do that. Second, when I am asked not to say anything, I tend to keep my word and not make posts. Mater of fact, two club members recently bought X-50's . . . wondering if they will have anything to say at the next meeting!
Just a side-note . . . . several people posted an observation a few weeks ago about the X-70 possibility. Go do a search and see . . the boxes for the X-Terra's had been reprinted in preparation for the X-70 release an on the side, it had all three models listed with check boxes for what was inside ...... a few observant users raised the question but no one seemed to take notice.
Again, I'm more than willing to answer any X-70 questions based on my time in the field with it over the past months . . .
Andy Sabisch
You are right in that Minelab took a gamble sending out dozens of test units for the X-30 and X-50 release to people that had NO tie to the company and were given free reign to post anything about the units . . . could have been a real negative PR opportunity but is was not as we all know from the forums.
As far as people being upset that they were not told about the pending release of the X-70, when should that have been announced? When it was being developed with no firm release date? I can think of several detectors that were announced yet took months or years to actually hit the market. The X-70 has a number of additions which took far longer to iron out than the engineers had anticipated.
Even the X-30 and X-50 were released well after they had planned to be. The first plans were laid in 2004 and I for one had the 1st model in the field in early 2005 . . . . . months before they were released which was well after the original planned release date.
I do not know of any manufacturer that has announced a model months in advance expecting to release it months down the road. If it is announced, it is because it is expected soon. And then no matter when you announce it, someone will have bought a model it is replacing or building on that will feel they were slighted.
How about cars? You buy one and the next week they come out with a mid-year redesign???? My MIL was looking at the Toyota Camry and yesterday saw the newly designed 2007 at the dealer . . . . she's glad she did not buy the '06 but what if she had? Fair . . . . I'm sure the person that just bought the old one would not think so but unfortunately that is business.
Several people have PM'd me wanting to know why I did not say anything - even indirectly - on the forums about a new unit coming out. First of all, I signed an agreement that said I would not do that. Second, when I am asked not to say anything, I tend to keep my word and not make posts. Mater of fact, two club members recently bought X-50's . . . wondering if they will have anything to say at the next meeting!
Just a side-note . . . . several people posted an observation a few weeks ago about the X-70 possibility. Go do a search and see . . the boxes for the X-Terra's had been reprinted in preparation for the X-70 release an on the side, it had all three models listed with check boxes for what was inside ...... a few observant users raised the question but no one seemed to take notice.
Again, I'm more than willing to answer any X-70 questions based on my time in the field with it over the past months . . .
Andy Sabisch
Mike Bearden
Member
To each his own, I've only got a few hours on the T2 but it needs some issues addressed that shouldn't take the user 300-400 hours to overcome or work around right out of the box.
It's noisy, and the big coil is so sensitive that it'll take some time to get use to. I don't like to re-set everything on it when I turn it ON due to no memory incorporated into a high end detector.
And personally I don't like high coin readings for nickels or care for the overall tonal quality or lack there of is more accurate.
Remember this is only my opinion and I PAID for the T2, it wasn't free, but I doubt my mind set will change after 300-400 hours, I've been detecting to many years to not know what I like or don't about a detector.
The Tejon is a piece that will take some time to master too, it's gain is set so high that it's almost unstable ... it is potent in the right hands though. But it's a battery hog and I've never had much luck with running rechargeable batteries in it either, even the 2500 nihms, and, I prefer a metered machine.
This new digital technology has solved the battery hog issue for the most part and there is allot to chose from in the market place. Yes, some offer a lifetime warranty, some don't. It's all a matter of what works for the user, how well they understand it's language, and the price they are willing to pay for what they think matters to be successful.
For me, I have confidence in Minelabs electronics, they have never let me down in the field and they simply find the goods so it's a easy decision that I can live with.
H.H.
Mike
It's noisy, and the big coil is so sensitive that it'll take some time to get use to. I don't like to re-set everything on it when I turn it ON due to no memory incorporated into a high end detector.
And personally I don't like high coin readings for nickels or care for the overall tonal quality or lack there of is more accurate.
Remember this is only my opinion and I PAID for the T2, it wasn't free, but I doubt my mind set will change after 300-400 hours, I've been detecting to many years to not know what I like or don't about a detector.
The Tejon is a piece that will take some time to master too, it's gain is set so high that it's almost unstable ... it is potent in the right hands though. But it's a battery hog and I've never had much luck with running rechargeable batteries in it either, even the 2500 nihms, and, I prefer a metered machine.
This new digital technology has solved the battery hog issue for the most part and there is allot to chose from in the market place. Yes, some offer a lifetime warranty, some don't. It's all a matter of what works for the user, how well they understand it's language, and the price they are willing to pay for what they think matters to be successful.
For me, I have confidence in Minelabs electronics, they have never let me down in the field and they simply find the goods so it's a easy decision that I can live with.
H.H.
Mike
I think you're being lumped into 'field testers' in general. There are alot of field tests I read in magazines that very little (if any) in the negative side is ever mentioned. That is where some people (including me) get disgusted. But, I have read your field tests in the past including your M6 review and you're not afraid to point out negatives in a machine. In the M6 review you pointed out several negatives. I think you do a good job in your reviews. On a different note... Personally, I don't think people realize what you go through when you become a pre release or prototype tester. You give up alot of time documenting plus dealing with a less than perfect machine can be annoying. So hats off to you for that commitment!
-Bill
-Bill
BarnacleBill
New member
It will be released in April 2008 and will have two major new features. A USB port that will allow you to upload up to 50 custom configurations covering disc patterns, sens, tone, threshold etc.etc. And it will have a special docking port for the new GPS module, that will allow you to not only catalog your finds in real time for export into Microsoft Excel, but also include a small type webcam to photograph the finds on site.
Next week, what do you think Fisher, White's etc will be working on?????
Fast forward to March 23, 2008. ML can't get the photo part of the cataloging software to work correctly. Looks like a bug in the IC chip at hardware level that can't be patched in software. This was a custom chip, so they have to go back to the foundry and wait for a fix. How long? Who knows?
Doug's been waiting for two years for the release of this machine since he really really wants that GPS module feature, especially the photo part.
What to do:
1. Don't release machine...Doug's not happy.
2. Release machine without GPS module....Doug's not happy.
2. Release machine with GPS module, but not camera...Doug's not happy.
And oh by the way, Fisher released the Fisher Extreme on Nov 24th, 2007 in time for x-mas, and guess what it had for features? The parent corp of Fisher decided to devote $3M USD to the project to beat ML to market and hired several outside consultants & sub-contractors to do parallel development. Their gamble paid off, Fisher sucked all the oxygen out of this market segment, the X100 is DOA, working or not. Two years of R&D and tooling costs in the tank, and it's not going to be Doug that's going to have to explain this to the president of ML.
All a manufacturer needs to do is go through an experience like this once. If the manufacturer learns from it, they will never pre-announce again, it's just too risky at several levels.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic about this. But I have noticed many posts on several forums from individuals from the US that display true ignorance about the manufacturing process of complex products. Maybe it is because manufacturing is disappearing from this country or our educational system.
So let's everybody have a little fun. Look at your X-terra, or even a picture of one. Take note of all the plastic parts you see. Do you know what the term 4-cavity means? What do you think the machining costs of the plastic injection molds for this machine alone are? How many X-terras will ML have to sell to recover just these machining costs?
I just want to see how many reading this are burger flippers(oops,that is sarcastic), and how many have any manufacturing experience?
Happy R&D
BarnacleBill
Next week, what do you think Fisher, White's etc will be working on?????
Fast forward to March 23, 2008. ML can't get the photo part of the cataloging software to work correctly. Looks like a bug in the IC chip at hardware level that can't be patched in software. This was a custom chip, so they have to go back to the foundry and wait for a fix. How long? Who knows?
Doug's been waiting for two years for the release of this machine since he really really wants that GPS module feature, especially the photo part.
What to do:
1. Don't release machine...Doug's not happy.
2. Release machine without GPS module....Doug's not happy.
2. Release machine with GPS module, but not camera...Doug's not happy.
And oh by the way, Fisher released the Fisher Extreme on Nov 24th, 2007 in time for x-mas, and guess what it had for features? The parent corp of Fisher decided to devote $3M USD to the project to beat ML to market and hired several outside consultants & sub-contractors to do parallel development. Their gamble paid off, Fisher sucked all the oxygen out of this market segment, the X100 is DOA, working or not. Two years of R&D and tooling costs in the tank, and it's not going to be Doug that's going to have to explain this to the president of ML.
All a manufacturer needs to do is go through an experience like this once. If the manufacturer learns from it, they will never pre-announce again, it's just too risky at several levels.
I'm not trying to be sarcastic about this. But I have noticed many posts on several forums from individuals from the US that display true ignorance about the manufacturing process of complex products. Maybe it is because manufacturing is disappearing from this country or our educational system.
So let's everybody have a little fun. Look at your X-terra, or even a picture of one. Take note of all the plastic parts you see. Do you know what the term 4-cavity means? What do you think the machining costs of the plastic injection molds for this machine alone are? How many X-terras will ML have to sell to recover just these machining costs?
I just want to see how many reading this are burger flippers(oops,that is sarcastic), and how many have any manufacturing experience?
Happy R&D
BarnacleBill
Andy Sabisch
Active member
Very well put! Not surprised if Minelab (or another manufactuer) uses it themselves!
Andy
Andy
Doug[Manila]
New member
BarnacleBill
I liked your Excel & Xterra comparisons and know that R&D (not marketing) is your strong point. Do reread my post as you gave me far too much credit for what I said
. Its not nice to put things in other people's mouths.
I know where we disagree as we are working on different points - you on the advantage of competitor secrecy and I - on consumer trust and dealer who's goal is customer satisfaction. They are totally different issues but both equally important. Notice I asked whether ML saw an upside...after all this saga isn't over yet. But the negatives for disregarding what I said are real and you can read it in other people's posts as well.
I liked your Excel & Xterra comparisons and know that R&D (not marketing) is your strong point. Do reread my post as you gave me far too much credit for what I said
. Its not nice to put things in other people's mouths. I know where we disagree as we are working on different points - you on the advantage of competitor secrecy and I - on consumer trust and dealer who's goal is customer satisfaction. They are totally different issues but both equally important. Notice I asked whether ML saw an upside...after all this saga isn't over yet. But the negatives for disregarding what I said are real and you can read it in other people's posts as well.
When ever a new detector has a field test in one of the magazine the first thing I look for is who wrote it. If it was Andy's I read them first before any thing else. I find them to be a fair test and one that covers more then most and gets to the point. I also notice many he let someone else with him on his test try the detector too which make it interesting.
One thing I would love to see is in field test is what Minelab did with the X-Terras only a little different.After a few with the proto types has used by people like Andy first to check for little quirks to see they are OK.That is let these different people try a new detector and not say anything until everyone has sent in their reports to a central location, then all be published at the same time. No one knows any good or bad others are having problems with so we get a actual persons field test and not one that is more of a copy of another's. I think this would give you an idea of what the new detector would be like.
Until then I feel Andy's field test to be the best there is, but they will not all be perfect as he can see things different then we do sometimes with the same detector.
One thing I would love to see is in field test is what Minelab did with the X-Terras only a little different.After a few with the proto types has used by people like Andy first to check for little quirks to see they are OK.That is let these different people try a new detector and not say anything until everyone has sent in their reports to a central location, then all be published at the same time. No one knows any good or bad others are having problems with so we get a actual persons field test and not one that is more of a copy of another's. I think this would give you an idea of what the new detector would be like.
Until then I feel Andy's field test to be the best there is, but they will not all be perfect as he can see things different then we do sometimes with the same detector.
BuckeyeBrad
New member
I agree with everything you said! Any others that have this experience understand a lot more of the goings on "behind the scene" and would probably do the exact same thing the manufacturers do despite of our interpretations of how it would be in a perfect world. The consumers and their dollars simply do not have total control of products available and the timelines thereof.
I looked at my X-50 box when it arrived, having heard the rumors of the X-70. Nothing but 30 and 50 check boxes on the side flap. I agree with Andy that he certainly should not have passed on the info of the impending release of the X-70. But Minelab didn't just say one day, "Okay, we're shippin' 'em out tomorrow. They knew well in advance of when it would be released. They had to build the finished product, didn't they? You can't relate this to the automobile industry because new models are released every year, and everyone knows that, announced or not. I've got a number of Ford F-150's and they're all different after 1994. Let's not support Minelab on this. They took advantage of their loyal customers. I'm sure they'll sell plenty to people who have to have the latest model, but not to me, not ever. And I metal detect with many guys. They have asked me about the X-50, and I've given it a great review. Yesterday I was asked why I wasn't using it, and I told them. Customers lost there, and it's not like 10 or 20 non-buyers won't make a difference. We're not talking Ipods here. Detector sales by comparison are tiny.
Mike Bearden
Member
It has it's niche, time and place, one of those things where it's not costing anything for it to sit in the closet until I get the itch to use it. It's pretty hot on small brass, lead, and jewelry but I wouldn't trade my X-Terra for it if I was in the market for one. But to each his own, I do like the dual disk for playground sweeping with the 5.75" coil.
Mike
Mike
time will tell. Sounds like some people want ML to stop coming out with new detectors. I have an old TR machine from Whites from the 70's ,but guess what,they did not stop either. I'm not mad... Where is the guy that was going to sell his x-terra 50 CHEAP if ML came out with the 70.......I might be interested..