Legend vs Manticore

[hodr]

If I recall correctly, the intro video for the Manticore stresses that the amount of power for transmitting the signals into the ground is substantially greater than any other detector allowing for greater depth and target id.

Can't beat physics. Inverse square law means that for any appreciable increase in depth they will need a LOT more power, and then they blow out the shallow targets.

They would be much better off claiming to have tuned their filters or found a better multifreq technique (now powered by AI!) or enhanced the design of the coil or really anything other than "we turned it up to 11".

 

[pulltaboo]

Inverse square law means that for any appreciable increase in depth they will need a LOT more power

You had me in the first half here. Inverse square law means that measured intensity decreases proportionally to distance squared. So to double the reach, you've to quadruple transmitting power… in theory, in vacuum. But when it comes to the real soil and VLF transmissions, we're not dealing with vacuum. It's more like a dense fog, which absorbs and distorts the energy. To make matters even worse, it tends to bounce it back, figuratively speaking (back when I was making my own detectors, I used to call this phenomena "shining void").

We're way past the point where sheer power of transmission could gain any measurable depth increase on coin-sized targets, especially in the trash. It's mostly about signal processing nowadays. Which also means that pretty much any modern detector has a potential to go deeper with the same hardware, once new algorithms get invented and implemented – if the manufacturer would dare to update the firmware instead of pushing for sales of slightly rehashed machine.

 

[DigDog]

Can't beat physics. Inverse square law means that for any appreciable increase in depth they will need a LOT more power, and then they blow out the shallow targets.

They would be much better off claiming to have tuned their filters or found a better multifreq technique (now powered by AI!) or enhanced the design of the coil or really anything other than "we turned it up to 11".

Kind of reminds me of the Tejon just a supercharged Vaquero. Great for those deep relic hunters in the woods but try running full sensitivity in a trashy park.
I agree something with a improved filters, frequency use, etc. details I’ve been trying to find out other than just a 2d screen and more battery power.
50% more battery but less run time than anything comparable? Is it just using the low frequency 4khz for the depth? No real explanation on anything other than 2d. A bit puzzling.

 

[jkline]

Wow... pre-order requires full payment? Hard pass, especially how unhappy I was with the nox. I'll wait for some user reports first...

 

[erjtej]

Thing is I already have the Legend and will keep it as i like it. Adding to the collection as i was hoping for a ML as well is the other story.
Pre order is a bit confusing as the release date is uncertain and from what i read not until 2023.
On top of that payment is required right now in full. Now i have been told not everyone is requesting payment up front. So is the reservation the same?
Do people who actually pay get them first? Many uncertainties.
But even before that point is the final decision of if it’s worth the price.
Here lays where the the questions are being asked.
I understand some are just those that automatically get the latest what a company puts out.
Take IPhone for example, i know those that wait all year and get the newest IPhone as soon as it comes out every year. My phone is 3 years old, I haven’t seen enough of a change in things worth it for me to upgrade. As soon as i see one with some cool new features that is different i will. Hope this clarifies where i am coming from.

i can privately message you a dealer that does not require a payment until he ships. I am # 20 on his list, but I would rather be #2o there than having my money tied up with another dealer. He is a very reputable dealer also.

 

[Hank68]

From what I seen from the manticore, my V3i was way ahead for its time , my 11 year old machine I believe I can give to a run for its money, I don't think it can notch like the V3i can

 

[MattBullSummerville]

Yeah I’m trying to figure out what the extra $1000 is for

It's called profit to keep coming up with more detectors for more profit!

 

[CoinRobber]

You had me in the first half here. Inverse square law means that measured intensity decreases proportionally to distance squared. So to double the reach, you've to quadruple transmitting power… in theory, in vacuum. But when it comes to the real soil and VLF transmissions, we're not dealing with vacuum. It's more like a dense fog, which absorbs and distorts the energy. To make matters even worse, it tends to bounce it back, figuratively speaking (back when I was making my own detectors, I used to call this phenomena "shining void").

We're way past the point where sheer power of transmission could gain any measurable depth increase on coin-sized targets, especially in the trash. It's mostly about signal processing nowadays. Which also means that pretty much any modern detector has a potential to go deeper with the same hardware, once new algorithms get invented and implemented – if the manufacturer would dare to update the firmware instead of pushing for sales of slightly rehashed machine.

I am sure it will be a deep

It's called profit to keep coming up with more detectors for more profit!

Minelab make the most profits on detector sales by far. Metal detectors are cheap to manufacture and the profits are massive for the manufacture. I think most of the cost to the manufacturer
is in designing and developing the detector. The circuit board inside the manticore won't have cost much at all to make. Most of the other parts are plastic too. So i guess $100 to make the manticore.
maybe less. Then sell for $1000 a detector profit. Nice.

 

[DigDog]

. Then sell for $1000 a detector profit. Nice.

I wish it was $1000 that would still be little too expensive but somewhat reasonable. But its $1600

 

[BobOso]

I wish it was $1000 that would still be little too expensive but somewhat reasonable. But its $1600

you can get it close if you are a vet, then apply for one of the new credit cards that offer a $300 rebate if you spend over $1000. Bingo you just got a manicore for $1100

 

[DigDog]

you can get it close if you are a vet, then apply for one of the new credit cards that offer a $300 rebate if you spend over $1000. Bingo you just got a manicore for $1100

Sounds good Bob but still not close.
You figure after taxes about $1700
And those cards that usually have those promotions if you don’t pay it off right away are like 18-29% interest.
I haven’t seen one give you $300 back but still deduct $300 from $1700 and its still around $1400 if you know of one that gives $500 + let me know
I always thought $1200 would have been more of a fair price for it nowadays.
When I bought the excalliber II i paid $1250 now the same exact detector with no changes at all is $1600.
Not so sure all the parts to make it went up $400, when it probably only costs $200 in parts to actually make it if that.
Profit margins have gone up thats for sure. You think it costs $50,000 in materials to make a car or $300,000 in materials to build a house

 

[BobOso]

Sounds good Bob but still not close.
You figure after taxes about $1700
And those cards that usually have those promotions if you don’t pay it off right away are like 18-29% interest.
I haven’t seen one give you $300 back but still deduct $300 from $1700 and its still around $1400 if you know of one that gives $500 + let me know
I always thought $1200 would have been more of a fair price for it nowadays.
When I bought the excalliber II i paid $1250 now the same exact detector with no changes at all is $1600.
Not so sure all the parts to make it went up $400, when it probably only costs $200 in parts to actually make it if that.
Profit margins have gone up thats for sure. You think it costs $50,000 in materials to make a car or $300,000 in materials to build a house

buy out of state,no taxes,free shipping, fix your budget to pay off in the 18 months.
I and many others did our patriotic duty and served 15% off minelab machines.
1600-240-300= 1060
I'm retired on a fixed income and can still pay it off in time, I paid my home off long before I retired, worked my ass off for 50+ years, started working when I was 14, my first new car cost $2500, my new Tacoma was in the $40k range, inflation yes, I worked at a Toyota dealership in Tampa for years and remember what a new PU costs. If not wanting to buy out of state to save on taxes, N.H. and Oregon have no state sales tax.

 

[synthnut]

It's called profit to keep coming up with more detectors for more profit!

Whatever the market will bear (bare) ?

 

[DigDog]

buy out of state,no taxes,free shipping, fix your budget to pay off in the 18 months.
I and many others did our patriotic duty and served 15% off minelab machines.
1600-240-300= 1060
I'm retired on a fixed income and can still pay it off in time, I paid my home off long before I retired, worked my ass off for 50+ years, started working when I was 14, my first new car cost $2500, my new Tacoma was in the $40k range, inflation yes, I worked at a Toyota dealership in Tampa for years and remember what a new PU costs. If not wanting to buy out of state to save on taxes, N.H. and Oregon have no state sales ta

, I worked at a Toyota dealership in Tampa for years and remember what a new PU costs.

Sales?
I worked at Honda, Nissan, Chevy and Ford in Tampa areas

 

[Picketwire]

So i guess $100 to make the manticore.
maybe less. Then sell for $1000 a detector profit. Nice.

The cost of the parts may be small. The cost to develop and test the parts, assemble, and warranty them is not. Rent on the building costs money. Engineers cost money. Management costs money. Assemblers and their health insurance are expensive. Testing, cost of plastic molds, shipping and many other items go into the final price. Go ahead and try to find parts and time to make one for $100. Then you can make that tremendous profit too.

 

[synthola]

So I got my hands on one of these machines recently at my local detector shop (Phil's--thanks Phil!) when the ML rep came by for a now product show. It is rather cool and I did want one after trying it out. I was told it would be out in time for the Christmas season. Had she had one available, I might have bought one on the spot, but the lead time gave me a chance to research and do a rational comparison.
First off, they (MineLab) were definitely sensitive to the leaky Nox problems that plagued that line for some time. This time around, the machine is very solidly build and light as well. I took a close look at all the seams, fittings, etc..shook it about a bit even lol. It is solid and stiff to swing, ergonomically very nice. I like the buttons better than the ones on my Nokta Simplex, as they are easier to depress without jamming my finger joints. Despite their easier feel, I am entirely certain the will stay waterproof in the field ( I am primarily a salt-water beach guy, west FL).
So much care was given to the design that there was even something as small as a "bump" built into the handle before the control housing to keep your hand from sliding up when the machine is wet. Apparently this is missing in the Nox? The rep made sure to point this tiny feature out to me. I thought it was pretty cool that details like this were observed.
What I really liked was the 2D feature on the display. There is some confusion in this thread as to what it actually is, and it took me some time (even after her thorough explanation) to kind of get what is was. Essentially it looked like a continuous visual display of a target relative to a line that represented the 0-99 target number. I was able to watch the display change as I swiped over nails, standing libertys and a huge natural gold nugget (!) that she brought for testing purposes. Looked really cool as a feature to use in the field. And, I believe it served a second function in building "masks" for searching. This I really liked as it was reminiscent of the visual masking feature on my old eTrac, which is still my favorite feature on any of my machines.
Will I buy one when they come out? Maaaayyybe. It is a great machine, but the Legend looks like it may drop in price. It looks like a solid machine as well, at almost a third of the price. But the Manticore has the 2D thing. Still, I like the 2D feature on my eTrac better, but I cant get that in the water (dammit). One thing is for sure, that big bright screen on the new machine is GORGEOUS.
If I can find a few heavy gold chains on the beach before Christmas maybe I will buy the new machine instead of a Legend .

ps. Almost forgot. NO MORE EARS ON THE COIL TO BREAK OFF! Like the ones that have broken off on almost all my other machines (thats you, eTrac lol). If you get a Manticore you will never have to buy 3D printed "Ear repair/stiffeners" off of Ebay and glue onto your coil/machine. The ears part is actually built into the lower shaft and is robust..will never break unless you run over it i guess...

 

[DigDog]

So I got my hands on one of these machines recently at my local detector shop (Phil's--thanks Phil!) when the ML rep came by for a now product show. It is rather cool and I did want one after trying it out. I was told it would be out in time for the Christmas season. Had she had one available, I might have bought one on the spot, but the lead time gave me a chance to research and do a rational comparison.
First off, they (MineLab) were definitely sensitive to the leaky Nox problems that plagued that line for some time. This time around, the machine is very solidly build and light as well. I took a close look at all the seams, fittings, etc..shook it about a bit even lol. It is solid and stiff to swing, ergonomically very nice. I like the buttons better than the ones on my Nokta Simplex, as they are easier to depress without jamming my finger joints. Despite their easier feel, I am entirely certain the will stay waterproof in the field ( I am primarily a salt-water beach guy, west FL).
So much care was given to the design that there was even something as small as a "bump" built into the handle before the control housing to keep your hand from sliding up when the machine is wet. Apparently this is missing in the Nox? The rep made sure to point this tiny feature out to me. I thought it was pretty cool that details like this were observed.
What I really liked was the 2D feature on the display. There is some confusion in this thread as to what it actually is, and it took me some time (even after her thorough explanation) to kind of get what is was. Essentially it looked like a continuous visual display of a target relative to a line that represented the 0-99 target number. I was able to watch the display change as I swiped over nails, standing libertys and a huge natural gold nugget (!) that she brought for testing purposes. Looked really cool as a feature to use in the field. And, I believe it served a second function in building "masks" for searching. This I really liked as it was reminiscent of the visual masking feature on my old eTrac, which is still my favorite feature on any of my machines.
Will I buy one when they come out? Maaaayyybe. It is a great machine, but the Legend looks like it may drop in price. It looks like a solid machine as well, at almost a third of the price. But the Manticore has the 2D thing. Still, I like the 2D feature on my eTrac better, but I cant get that in the water (dammit). One thing is for sure, that big bright screen on the new machine is GORGEOUS.
If I can find a few heavy gold chains on the beach before Christmas maybe I will buy the new machine instead of a Legend .

ps. Almost forgot. NO MORE EARS ON THE COIL TO BREAK OFF! Like the ones that have broken off on almost all my other machines (thats you, eTrac lol). If you get a Manticore you will never have to buy 3D printed "Ear repair/stiffeners" off of Ebay and glue onto your coil/machine. The ears part is actually built into the lower shaft and is robust..will never break unless you run over it i guess...

Nice but also comes with a price for the upgrades.
I guess you can get a Nox 800 and two extra coils for the same price
Really comes down to how bad you want the 2D feature, otherwise probably better picking up a Nox 800 with the price drop imo.

 

[JCR TX]

I would expect the Manticore to exceed the overall performance of the Equinox platform. Will it be worth the extra price difference? People will decide for themselves. Will it be worth it compared to the Legend? Not for me at this point. I think Nokta will continue to enhance the Legend. 2D target trace is neat, but just an enhanced form of TID. TID is secondary to the tonal response to me. The Legend's Ferro Check serves the same purpose. Minelab has a marketing department. They are not a marketing company. They are a detector company. and they have & do produce products that perform at the top of the game. They also know how to charge top dollar. You have to figure Nokta has the attention of both Minelab and XP in regards to pricing AND performance.