12x10 SEF Coil Field Tests & Trials. Is She A Keeper?

[Critterhunter]

Went out with the 12x10 for about an hour and a half yesterday, mostly digging anything above iron in hopes of a ring. Popped another button of some sort and posted the pic in the More Of My Finds thread. I wasn't really looking for anything deep as there were plenty of potential gold signals fairly shallow. However, I did run acrossed a deeper copper penny signal. At about 6 to 7" deep I popped a wheat. That's not exactly something to brag about but a few things did make it worth mentioning. I had the sensitivity set at around 2PM due to a nearby heavy power source and the ground had some hot rocks in the form of gravel on top of it. They were causing a lot of nulling here and there. The gravel right over this coin would cause my Pro Pointer to go off if I scanned the rocks, and there was also a good bit of iron in the ground all around this coin. I was very impressed with the machine and this coil's ability to sound clearly off to the wheat despite all these negative factors. In fact, at first I was thinking this coin must be a false coin hit off the gravel, but once I got past that and into the dirt looking for it I started to have higher hopes. It gave a perfect signal both ways before digging, yet I could hear the threshold null out during the sweeps due to the hot rocks/iron.

 

[Critterhunter]

Now tell me true....which coil is better a 15" W.O.T. coil or a 12"x10" SEF Coil?

No Bovine Excrement now!
I want the truth. Maybe you can't handle the truth.

In my medium to high mineral soil the 15x12 didn't go as deep as the stock coil, but it sure did go deeper on the beach. For the same reason I doubt the WOT would get better depth than the stock coil due to seeing too much ground matrix in my soil. If your soil isn't highly mineralized then either coil might get deeper for you. The 12x10 thus far looks like it gets deeper on land for me than the stock coil, but I still need to test that more to confirm things. I think it's due to this coil seeing less ground with it's ultra tight detection field in the right/left perspective, and so I suspect that even if say a 12" coil or even a 10" coil doesn't get better depth for some people than an 8"...that they might very well get deeper with the 12x10.

 

[Critterhunter]

I was looking for a really "SHARP" knife like seperation of targets like you explained in your threads ..... Either your coil is different than mine, or it runs differently on a GT than it does the original Soverign , but I get good seperation , but not knife like ..... I would say that it seperates about the same as my S-5 ,but no better .....STILL a great coil ...It runs a LOT more quiet than the stock coil , and I think it may go a bit deeper ....I need to spend more time with it ..... I think that it ID's a lot better than the stock coil too .......

In response to this remark in another thread from Synthnut about the 12x10...

The sharpest portion of the 12x10 and the 15x12 is the last 3 or 4" of coil near the tip or tail. Separation in the middle of the coil doesn't really seem quite as good due to the hot concentric (or at least it feels that way) middle to it, but still feels better than a conventional DD to me. I only use the middle of the coil for of course general searching, but once I find something to check out I'll back up and use the last 3 or 4" of the tip to check it out. For really tight targets near each other I sniff things out with the very tip of the SEF. That's where it feels razor sharp (the last 3 or 4", but even sharper as you get closer to the tip). Thus far I've only found a few super deep targets that the tip of the coil didn't see quite as well as dead center did, so keep that in mind if you sweep over a real deep one with the tip and the thing seems to null like iron. Get dead center over it and make sure it's not that the center is just seeing it better. Really I can't say that the center has saw targets better at fringe depth for me than I could with the last 3 or 4" of the coil, but just the same I'm always cautious about that just in case. I was never one to use the center of a DD coil for pinpointing or checking out targets. I always back up and use the front portion of the coil most of the time to check things out.

All that being said, I feel the 12x10 at least separates better dead center than the 10" Tornado (which is a real good coil at that), but things get real precise if you check things out with say the last 3 or 4" at the tip of the SEF. I've hit many coins with the tip that dead center would just null over due to nearby trash, yet I could isolate and get a great coin signal from any direction sniffing around with the tip. I just try to remember that- Perhaps slightly more depth dead center (though I doubt it) and with real good separation, but for sure more laser like target separation using the front or back 3 or 4" of the coil.

The only slight drawback which *might* be true of the 12x10 to me so far (every other aspect of this coil has been a huge improvement to me over the stock 10" Tornado) is it *seems* like I have a little less ability to tell oddly shaped small trash targets like bits of aluminum from something round in shape. The audio seems to have a little less telling traits at these types of targets than the 15x12 or the 10" Tornado. Now, I'm not sure if that's the case yet because I'm still learning the language of this coil. And, it for sure hits harder on tiny bits of stuff like aluminum, so that might be why I'm getting fooled a bit more and has nothing to do with any less ability to provide those audio details. It could also just be that I'm not used to the higher pitch targets put out and haven't tuned my ears for that properly yet, so I'm still learning how to speak it's language.

One thing for sure is that it seems to peek my interest more on real deep coins with it's slightly higher pitch than the stock coil, so I would gladly trade off a little tiny target audio ability in terms of what it is if it means I'm getting deeper on coins with this coil (which it appears to be doing thus far but with more testing to do). If anything, for sure you need to learn how this coil speaks. It is not the same as the stock coil and somewhat more different to it than the 15x12 was. To me the stock coil and the 15x12 have a more deep/rich sound to targets, while the 12x10 has a crisper, sharper, more focused report on what it's seeing.

It might be that for some reason my hearing with this coil isn't quite as good on tiny trash items versus good round ones (this is just a vague impression so far), and if that's the case then one might want to use the 15x12 or stock 10" coil for gold ring hunting if they are the type who really has built up a skill to hear gold rings versus trash. I'm not saying the 12x10 lacks this ability, but I am saying that I'm still learning it's language in that respect. Like I said, it might just be that this coil for sure hits harder ton tiny bits of stuff, and so I'm thus digging more bits of junk that sound half way decent where as the other coils don't have as good of ability on them and never produce a strong enough signal to bother with.

 

[synthnut]

I'll check out the 3 to 4 inch mark that you speak of for a sharper seperation ....I am so use to hitting a target , and then crossing it again at 90 degrees , and using the center of my coil to do that on every coil that I use ....About the only time I use the tip of the coil is when I am at the beach and I want to cover as much ground as possible .... I can be a little bit off on my digging , but it really doesn't mantter much in the sand ..... The Concentric area in the middle of the coil pretty much acts like my other DD coils as far as left to right target ID .....

Pitch is a funny thing .....Some like the lower pitched tones, and some like the pitch higher ......It's all up to the individual ....I'm going to keep adjusting mine until I can come up with the PERFECT PITCH for me .... I know that where it is now is much better than the way it was when I first got this machine working ..... The pitch and tone now seem almost effortless compared to what tone it had before which would make complete sense ....It takes less amplification to push higher pitched sounds , than it does to push lower pitched tones .... If you look at stereo speakers , or guitar or bass amplifiers , you will notice that it takes more power to push lower pitched tones than it does higher pitched tones ... If you look at stereo speakers that are bi amped ( 2 power amps in one speaker cabinet ) you will notice tha the amp for the lower end of the material that is being reproduced is more powerful than the higher pitched materials amplifier ...... Mid and High tones are pushed more easily in the detector too !!.... This situation , plus the fact of how Silver sounds on ANY machine , and you have a Silver tone that will SCREAM at you when you have your pitch adjusted for your ears ...... Try it !!....You might just like it !!.....Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Never thought about that- high pitch being amped easier. Interesting.

The SEF detection field gets sharper and sharper at it moves out toward the tip. You'll start to notice it's pretty tight at about the last 3 or 4" to the tip, but it gets even sharper in the last inch or two, and is very surgical in the last .5 to 1" right before the "V". Using that spot to sniff between targets I swear it feels tighter than my S-5 or any coil I've ever used, regardless of size. The last 3 or 4" to me feels better than say an 8 or 9" coil, while dead center feels better than a 10" to me too.

 

[synthnut]

I do notice it being more sharp towards the tip which is nice for pinpointing ......I don't really notice it being any more sharp in the middle than the stock coil .... I was hoping it would be since the coil that I am comparing it to is not the Tornado , but the BBS 1000 coil ....I'm not sure which one has a sharper center area, the Tornado or the 1000 ....?????........ I don't have a Tornado to compare it to .... I KNOW that the 10 x 12 SEF is sharper than a CoinSearch coil , but then again ANY coil is sharper than the CoinSearch .... I have to say though that the CoinSearch does not talk to you like any other coil ...It YELLS at you !!....LOL !!.... Jim

 

[kered]

As a side note be carefull with the CoinSearch as they are not waterproof like the others.

 

[synthnut]

Thanks for the heads up Kered ....I'm aware of that ...... I've done as much reading up on it as I can ....I would still like to hear from folks that have used it a lot .....Maybe time for another thread ....Jim

BTW ...They did make the same coil waterproof .....They called it the SeaSearch ......Jim

 

[Coach "D"]

I just used my new SEF 10X12 on my White's M6 yesterday. I was in high hopes after reading all of the previous posts on this style coil. I know our machines are different, but the technology is similar. I was very frustrated that I was not digging my targets easily. I have never dug such big holes before! I assumed the dead center was where pinpointing took place, but that was never the case. Most often, the object was in the top, left quadrant. I made the mistake of only air testing before going into the field, and actually went back to the car to get some coins to practice with. Surface coins do not map out the same as coins in the dirt as fas as I can tell. I was also using my Garrett Pro Pointer, and nine times out of ten, I had to scan to the left side of the hole, even though I was getting the best tone under the assumed center of the coil. I finally had my friend pinpoint a target with his detector, mark the ground, then swing mine over the same place. I was never on his mark, but again to the upper left quadrant. I am not sure what to do, other than call KellyCo. I almost feel like I got a coil that is not tuned correctly. Any advice on the usage of this new coil would be nice. It is an Excelerator coil.
Thanks!

 

[kered]

As far as i can recall the Seasearch was the horseshoe coil on the excalibur

 

[Critterhunter]

Was out Saturday with a friend to hunt a bit in the woods. The 12x10 was stable at full sensitivity and managed a 1936 Merc for me. I had the meter tweaked to go 181 here and there on a silver dime and sure enough I knew this was going to be silver based on both the extra sweet/soft tone and the 181 number with every other sweep. Called a friend over and he swept it with his Pro Xl and sure enough he said "silver dime" too. On our way out we cut through some really thick brush and he just happened to still be sweeping and hit a good signal. Out pops a 1914 barber quarter and a merc! Needless to say I was more than willing to hunt even in that thick of brush and soon popped a deep buffalo and a wheat. Despite us scouring through the brush we didn't pop anything else out of there. Man, what are the chances of us just cutting through that stuff and him hitting that silver right away. I had a feeling we had stumbled onto a long lost picnic grove that had overgrown and was too thick for anybody to hunt until we didn't pull anything else out of there.

One thing I am learning with this coil (& the Sovereign in general using any coil) is that if you get a perfect coin ID from at least one direction then dig that sucker. I don't care if it sounds bad or is a total null from any other way, you'll know it has to be a coin by just how good it sounds from that one very precise direction. I can't tell you how many deep wheats mixed in iron or other junk that I've dug with this coil. Wiggle the tip at it and work your way around that piece of "junk". If it gives a real good coin ID at one spot then I'd say about 60 or 70% of the time it is in fact a coin. They sound just too perfect, where as iron and other junk has telling traits that don't make them quite as "perfect".

So far I'm loving this coil in every respect over the stock coil. Virtually any performance aspect you can think of is a big improvement to me, and that's saying a lot because I consider the 10" Tornado to be one of the finest coils I've ever used on any machine. Much better than the versions of the 10" that came and went on the Explorers IMO. Separation, pinpointing, depth (appears deeper even in my high mineral soil but more tests to do), stability (it's able to run full blast at most sites), and even coverage...Just can't stand the feel of the stock coil in terms of coverage on land any more. The longer coverage of the 12x10 gives me a much more natural walk while fully covering the ground in head of me. I found myself having to constantly hold a step here and there with the stock coil to keep from swinging too fast. The stock coil is my water rig coil for now on, until I try the 12x10 in the water and find out I like that better. Even snags less than the stock coil in the woods due to the webbing helping it slide over things easier.

One thing I touched on before about the 12x10....Unlike the stock coil and the 15x12, I'm often finding that full stable sensitivity with the 12x10 also is giving it best depth. Where as with the stock coil or 15x12 best depth was often when I set sensitivity much lower than what was max stable. I attribute this to the 12x10 taking in less ground with it's much tighter/more well defined detection field, and thus soaking in less ground matrix that might otherwise degrade target quality. Remember I'm talking about in my soil here, which tends to be highly mineralized. For that reason it also appears this coil is getting deeper on targets for me. I know I'm digging more wheats another inch or two deeper in dry conditions than the stock coil or the 15x12 had got for me. I'm still planning some more head to head tests of the stock coil to the 12x10 for depth and other performance factors and will report when I have something.

 

[Critterhunter]

I just used my new SEF 10X12 on my White's M6 yesterday. I was in high hopes after reading all of the previous posts on this style coil. I know our machines are different, but the technology is similar. I was very frustrated that I was not digging my targets easily. I have never dug such big holes before! I assumed the dead center was where pinpointing took place, but that was never the case. Most often, the object was in the top, left quadrant. I made the mistake of only air testing before going into the field, and actually went back to the car to get some coins to practice with. Surface coins do not map out the same as coins in the dirt as fas as I can tell. I was also using my Garrett Pro Pointer, and nine times out of ten, I had to scan to the left side of the hole, even though I was getting the best tone under the assumed center of the coil. I finally had my friend pinpoint a target with his detector, mark the ground, then swing mine over the same place. I was never on his mark, but again to the upper left quadrant. I am not sure what to do, other than call KellyCo. I almost feel like I got a coil that is not tuned correctly. Any advice on the usage of this new coil would be nice. It is an Excelerator coil.
Thanks!

That's a common problem reported about these SEF coils on all the Whites units (MXT, M6, DFX, V3) from what I hear- That they pinpoint off to the side like you found. Are you using the center of the coil or the tip? I would suspect that using the tip might fix the problem for those machines. Wiggle the tip towards the target until you just hear it, then do the same from 90 degrees. It should now be just at the base of the "V" at the tip. That's the way I always pinpoint with these coils, and I also use the tip or tail on other DD coils as well because it's easier for me. From all the research I did on these SEF coils when I was considering one I read all the field reports/messages that I could find on them regardless of what machine they were being used on. Don't expect the same stellar depth performance on the Whites as they give on the Minelabs. For some reason they appear to work better on BBS and FBS machines, and the increased depth reports I read on Whites were not all that outstanding compared to say a typical stock 8 or 10" coil on a Minelab. All that being said, I'm sure they probably are improvements over the stock White coils from the looks of what I've read.

Back to the Sovereign...You know, I'm really starting to wonder if using the tip to investigate targets (when I say tip I mean the last inch or two of the coil, perhaps 3) when they are not masked might be costing me an ultra deep fringe coin. I know for sure that when any kind of trash or iron is present I seem to get the best ID by using the tip, but I'm wondering about those coins at the very outer fringes of depth with no trash around them. I always use the front of the coil to check things out and I am wondering if a coin signal I first hit with the center might be so outer fringe that it goes to a null or degrades the target when trying to look at it with the front of the coil.

Yesterday I was doing some air testing at a site I was hunting. I was able to run the 12x10 at full sensitivity and I figured I'd see just how deep it would hit on a silver dime air testing. I was sweeping the coil back and fourth doing the slow Sovereign wiggle as I brought the coil closer and closer until I just started getting proper ID and tone at least every other sweep. It was impressive. By eye I'd say I had the coil about knee height or so. We always hear that Minelabs don't air test well and I also feel they need to see the ground load in order to show best depth, but still the kind of distance I was getting was pretty darn outstanding.

Anyway, I then moved the coil off dead center of the coin keeping the same height and was using the tip or front 3 or 4" of the coil and the target ID/tone degraded somewhat. That has me thinking the indeed the strongest/deepest signal is dead center with the coil. Now I'm wondering if some of those coin signals I'm hitting that seem to degrade or go away when checking with the tip might be real deep coins that only the center can reach out and hit on. That concerns me, because I've never been one to use the middle of the coil to check out targets and pin point them. Sure, I use the center while searching and will use it to check the target from different angles to derive best ID if no trash is present, but I often go to the tip to investigate further or to pin point. I guess I'm going to need to master using the center for pinpointing, or at least check it out with the center when no trash is around and then switch over to PP mode (or at least not be concerned with quality of signal) when using the tip to pin point where it's at. Hmmmm....maybe that's why the 15x12 wasn't giving me better depth on land than the stock 10" Tornado. I might have been passing up those really deep coins because when I checked them out with the tip they were gone or went bad on me. I don't like that feeling of perhaps having walked over coins because of operator error. I need to do some further testing on this.

Another thing I've noticed with the 12x10 is that when I pin point with the tip some times, in particular on real deep coins, the target can be off by as much as two or three inches or so when checking it from 90 degrees. After digging these and finding only say a wheat and no other iron or junk in the ground (after re-sweeping the hole) I know nothing else was there to throw off the pin point like that. I have a feeling that perhaps some of these are coins on edge in some way and I'm reflecting off the side of the coin, causing pin pointing (in discriminate or all metal PP modes, doesn't matter) to be in two separate spots. It seems this is more common once the coin gets past about 7" in depth. For that reason I no longer use PP as a guide in telling me if it's iron or not, because many say iron will PP in two different spots from discriminate to PP mode. Just throwing that out there for those who might be passing up a coin signal that doesn't show the same spot from two directions. When that happens I just use the two spots as the outer edges of my plug, digging a good inch or two past those two spots to form the outer boundaries of my plug.

 

[Coach "D"]

This is good information, Critterhunter. I was not using the tip, but the center. I was feeling really good about depth as I was digging down past 12" and still getting a signal. After the second deep hole is when I found the item was about 6 " down and to the left. It was a mere shard off of a barbed wire fence, about 1/2" long, 1/8" diameter. I was running 90% Sensitivity, and had my Disc just above nail/foil, leaving nickels and beyond available. Once I realized the left side deal, I tried to pay more attention and give more confidence to the left top quadrant as where I must dig. My next amazing stupid human trick was hearing signals, dig, sweep again and find nothing, not even with my Pro Pointer. I slowly deduced that with 100% Sensitivity, I was actually picking up my finds hanging in front of me in my keeper pouch. I was basically air testing from the ground up to my pouch, I just did not know I was air testing at that point! I moved my pouch to my side and all was well from there on.

I found I was getting quality sounds with 40% - 60% Sensitivity. The deepest coin I found was 8", digging a normal sized plug at first, then moved left (short term memory stinks!) and found it lying totally flat. At that depth I was hoping for wheat, but only found Lincoln. It was a 1965, though. I then dug a square nail at 10" in really soft ground, but found it right away, making me feel a little more competent.

I am going to try your method of using the tip tomorrow. I will be in sand, but the M6 handles it really well with the auto-lock set to beach. Just for clarification, do you mean the leading tip, farthest from your feet, or the trailing tip, closest to your feet? Or could one use either end?

 

[Critterhunter]

Either end works the same. I use the tail of the coil in the water because I can then stick my big toe up against it to guide my scoop. On land I prefer using the tip of the SEF coil, but with the stock 10" coil I like to use the tail on land for whatever reason. If you air test your PP method using the tip or tail be sure to raise the coil high enough to give a realistic signal. If you are real close it can throw off things for you.

I was just re-trying the air test using max sensitivity and may have over stated the depth on a silver dime I was getting. It was at least a foot and a half by looks but that's probably not what I would call knee height. Very impressive just the same, as Minelabs are said to get more depth with an actual undug target in the ground.

I know what you mean about sensitivity of these coils. When I lay my machine down to dig a plug if I get the digger (held vertically in relation to the coil- just pointing the tip of the digger at it) in PP mode the machine has no problem sounding off to it with the digger about just in front of the control box. That's pretty darn sensitive. I just about always flip to PP mode when I lay the machine on the ground to avoid any falsing so I can't say what discriminate does at that distance. It should null anyway.

 

[Critterhunter]

I managed to get out yesterday with a friend for I think my first real serious hunt this year after hurting my finger. I had been out one time before for a light hunt. The 12x10 got me another silver...a 1924 Merc. It was about 6" deep and was great one way but gave a worbly sound the other. I called my friend over to sweep the undug target with his Etrac and he also was getting a funky signal one way. Must have either been on end or had iron in the whole with it. It was nice to get out and also dig some silver. Been too long after a hard winter and my hand injury.

 

[Critterhunter]

I got out the other day to a spot I've worked the tar out of with various machines over the years. It's not real trashy over most of it but the targets tend to be real deep. Over a year ago I dug my two deepest coins ever on any machine using my GT and the stock 10" Tornado coil (This was before owning an SEF). An indian at about 11" and then a v-nickle at about 11" too. Both gave good audio and proper ID and I almost gave up on them they were so deep, thinking I was chasing a large target. I hunted a little over an hour and dug two wheats, both about 8.5" deep. I wanted to post a quick report on how these coins responded and such, which should be useful info regardless of what coil you are using.

First, unlike the 15x12, the 12x10 seems more often than not to want to run at max stabile sensitivity. With the 15x12 my buried dime test often gave best response with the sens at say 2PM (for instance) where as the machine might still be stabile at max sens. I do my buried dime test with all my coils, sticking the silver dime deep enough for that spot (this changes due to soil conditions) to where I can just muster proper ID with the right setting of the sens dial, and some times (even with the stock coil or 12x10, but more so with the 15x12) it wants sens set much lower than max stabile. Going higher would null out or destroy the response, making it much harder or impossible to get a good ID.

More often than not the 12x10 wants max stabile sensitivity. So any way, this was the case the other day and this ended up being about 10PM on the dial. Set there the threshold would reset about every ten seconds due to interference or riding the edge of stability. That's fine, as I can easily tell if it's just resetting or if I passed over something and can always re-sweep the spot to be sure where it changed.

So along I'm hunting and I hit a deep sounding target. Often the first response will be junky or lower on the scale on deep stuff until you get over it more and sweep short back and fourth sweeps or wiggles over it. The signal then goes to 180 with a nice coin tone. Checked it from 90 degrees and it was much harder to go 180 as I've found many deep coins will even null at one angle due to orientation or nearby iron. That's why I don't rely on that or seeing if it moved in PP to see if it's iron. The response one way was way too good so I knew it was a coin.

I mainly PP in discriminate these days amnd just use PP mode as a backup to sort things out, and I like to use the tip of the coil to do this. Problem is at depth you might only be able to see the coin with the middle of the coil. From the easier direction the tip got it in one spot, but from the other direction I couldn't get a coin response with the tip in the same spot...due to it not going coin until the middle of the coil was over it. When the two differ I go by where the tip says it is from the easiest to ID direction I found when just sweeping over the target.

Just saying be forewarned that if you use the tip like me it may only be seeing it from one direction that way and moves from the other due to only seeing it with the middle. There may also be times when only the center of the coil hits it from any direction, so I guess I need to practice PPing using the center of the coil.

Don't be fooled by it PPing in two different spots and thinking it's iron. Don't pass up those iffy coins that won't ID from 90 degrees. Many coins won't. Rely more on the audio and how often the ID goes negative to see if it's iron. But you are going to have to dig some iron to get those fringe coins that act similar. Also, the best way to learn how deep coins respond is to stick them in the ground deep enough to where you have to work to get a good ID from them. A little deeper still yet and they still respond but won't be able to climb to 180. The will linger lower on the scale but the response is unique to. Practice and learn fringe coin responses.

8.5" might not be deep in your soil but it is at some of my sites due to the minerals.

Also, the fact that at depth some coins will only give a proper response with the center of the coil means it's important to overlap your sweeps with a DD coil just like a concentric. Go slow and overlap them by like 2/3rds if you expect deep coins. Dig those ghostly deep ones and learn what is what.

 

[Critterhunter]

Forgot the important part...When I hit on one of these deep wheats I tried lowering the sens from about 10PM, which was a little unstable, to noon and the response went away! This is one of the few times running at the edge of stability was needed to get a coin. The 12x10 wants me to max it out to the edge of stability at most sites. Also, with a high sens setting the machine wants me to work it real slow, where as it seems it wants a little faster with a lower sens setting. Also, you must get right over that deep trash signal and wiggle or use short somewhat faster before the proper ID comes through. If you are ignoring the first response as junk you are passing up coins.

 

[Rick(ND)]

As I see you are learning something new all the time which is good. Some are so set in their ways they wont learn something new with the Sovereigns, it took me a while too and some was by accident, but with the higher sensitivity you will go deeper, but you will have to go slow and listen closer too. Myself I have heard many little tone changes that unless you are listening close will walk right over them. These are the ones with that you do just a slight wiggle on to see they are repeatable and the tones are trying to climb like the meter readings , but may never make it to a decent number, but sure is trying. If you were swing fast or lower sensitivity you would never hear them, but this is something I don't recommend until you know your Sovereign well as it would be harder to learn it if you don't know it.

I am glad you are starting to see what the Sovereign can do once you know it.

Rick

 

[Critterhunter]

Bumping this thread up because there has been a lot of talk on the SEFs lately.