Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

12x10 SEF Coil Field Tests & Trials. Is She A Keeper?

I just did some more test comparisons of the stock 10" Tornado to the SEF 12x10 and the results look even better for the 12x10! This time I headed off to the woods and chose a spot where there was loamy soil, containing black soil mixed with fine decomposed leaf litter and other stuff, though mostly it was black soil. Not extremely black soil, containing from the looks of it slight clay content, but still much better than the first test done a few days ago that was heavy in lime stone clay. Not only would this spot provide a good comparison of the two coils in low mineral content (as evidenced by both coils being able to run stable at full sensitivity), but the area is devoid of RF activity which would allow both coils to "run free" in terms of what they were able to do without influence from outside forces (EM fields).

I began the test with the 12x10. I buried a silver Rosie dime at a measured 7.5" deep and then packed the soil to mimic as much as possible original ground matrix, though we all know that Minelabs do not like disturbed soil and depths suffer greatly when it has been freshly altered. The soil was damp but not any where near what I would call wet.

I first started off sweeping the 12x10 around the site to insure a clean area where the spot was chosen for the silver dime. As I did this I wanted to see how high the sensitivity could be run. As expected with the soil conditions and lack of EMI or RF interference, full blast manual sensitivity was perfectly stable. I then swept over the dime at full sensitivity and was able to achieve a 181 (silver in the way I tweak the meter) ID and good coin audio.

OK, if this target didn't give me trouble at IDing at a somewhat lower sensitivity setting then I would have to stick it further into the ground to put things right on the edge for comparison to the stock coil. I soon found by ranging up and down the dial that around 1:30PM (just above the "C" in the word Noise Cancel on the face plate) provided the easiest stability of the ID, meaning that it wouldn't try to roam off on me when at rest between short sweeps over the target. I then wanted to see just how low the sensitivity could go before I lost it. At 3PM the target was easily heard, though the ID was roaming in the 140's and 150's, showing that sensitivity was dipping down into too low of an area to be ID'd properly. Good, while I was at it I flipped over to Auto to see what that would do and the target could no longer be heard or any response (even a null) achieved.

Alright, I've got some baselines to judge the 10" Tornado by. I threw that coil on and first swept around the area to see how high sensitivity could go and still remain stable. Full blast sensitivity was also able to be ran with this coil. However, I have found the 12x10, like the 15x12, can be run at higher sensitivity settings at some sites than the stock coil. Just the same, this area would be a good comparison of both coils running all out.

At full blast sensitivity the stock coil could achieve 181 on the target. It might have been a little harder to acquire than the 12x10 at full blast but it was really too close to tell. Ranging the sensitivity down to where I preferred with the 12x10 at 1:30PM would be the true comparison here, and I'm happy to say that the stock coil was having a much harder time to reach 181 despite intense effort with this setting. It's audio also wasn't going "COIN" as much as it tried to get there, but I feel I still would have dug this target with this coil as well. All I can say is that the 12x10 made things easier and with better audio more of the time. The stock coil mainly would range in the 170's and would only go 181 perhaps one out of ten sweeps while the 12x10 was doing a 181 in say 4 or 5 sweeps less time.

Alright, looks like the 12x10 just like the other day is providing easier ID. Let's range sensitivity down to 3PM and see if the stock coil can still at least sound off at that setting like the SEF was able to. Nope! I couldn't get any kind of audio response from the stock coil at this setting, where as the 12x10 was as said sounding off fairly easy and getting into the 140's and 150s. What a contrast! It appears the SEF reaches down further than the 10" coil at the exact same sensitivity setting! That was impressive!

I then threw the 12x10 back on to compare the results one more time to insure things hadn't changed. Once again it was a good bit easier to hit 181 and with better audio while getting there than the stock coil, and once again at 3PM it would at least sound off fairly well to the coin and manage a mid range ID where as the stock coil was silent as a church mouse.

So what can we conclude with this test in low minerals/low RF noise? That the 12x10 is able to achieve hits on targets at a much lower sensitivity setting than the stock coil, and that it once again was able to achieve easier target IDs at a certain setting (1:30PM) than the 10" coil with the same setting. It also illustrates that the 12x10 appears to be hotter (reach deeper) in low minerals, even if both coils would remain stable at full blast sensitivity. This is a good comparison of both coils when related to both tests from the other day in high minerals and today. Obviously due to the better soil with less minerals and RF noise both coils were able to go deeper (7.5"), where as the other day 6" was max target depth for on a freshly buried target in high minerals. So we can probably draw a few conclusions here thus far, although perhaps too early to set in cement....

The 12x10 gets deeper and achieves easier target ID/audio quality in high minerals, and it also appears to get deeper and achieve easier target ID/audio in low minerals as well. Not only that, but even in low minerals it is still reaching further into the ground than the stock coil. If logic follows by both of these contrasts then this coil should provide more depth with less sensitivity required in both high and low minerals, allowing smoother operation via a lower sensitivity setting and yet still reaching further into the ground that the stock 10" Tornado.

Thus far I'd have to say that my theory on this coil soaking in less ground matrix in relation to it's more tight/cleaner/more well defined detection field in the left/right perspective is proving a correction assumption. More testing will need to be done in order to back up these results, and in varying types of grounds to illustrate the constant in performance of both coils in things like high and low minerals, different soil types, and so on. My next test will be both coils in sand at a local fresh water beach which contains fairly high minerals. I also plan to test their response on coins in various stages of being on edge at this location to investigate the differences in that respect.

Hope you enjoyed the results so far. I wish some other people would post some testing comparisons of various coils in such a way as I love to read this sort of stuff. I'd really like to see the S-12 compared to the stock coil and the 12x10. I'll probably be acquiring a broken S-12 shortly and if I do I will be conducting such tests and comparisons for both my curiosity and the reading interests of at least some of you guys.

I'm off to do some hunting today at probably a known deep coin spot. This early initial results of this coil give me added confidence that I'm probably going deeper than anybody ever has at such a site. That kind of thought really inspires me!
 
A short story about the Sovereign, the 12x10, and a beautiful fall day...

As I entered the woods swarms of colorful leafs fell with every brisk wind gust. I turned on my Sovereign and found that it was stable at full sensitivity. After a few deep targets were dug I saw no need to lower it as they read as they should and were stable. Several clad pennies and screw caps later the wind once again gusted, reminding me of an old saying..."All I need is a tall ship...", or something along those lines. Wonder why the wind would remind me of that? No matter, I never was one for classic literature.

That phrase always seems to inspire me, and as a result my mind wandered off into that direction. Inspirational phrases like "You can never achieve what you don't believe" came to mind to occupy me between targets. It was then that I got the signal. A 180, followed by another, followed by a 181, all very close to each other. I isolated one and at 7.5" deep a wheat appears, followed shortly by it's twin. But what of the 181?

Had I listened to others I would never have believed that a 181 was possible on silver while retaining 180 on others. Had I followed conventional wisdom I would have probably passed by this "signal" as just another large piece of trash, thinking "This machine just can't separate that well on targets this close. It must be junk." But I had confidence in the Sovereign and it's ability. I believed...

As I held the target in my hand on this majestic fall day in nature, I suddenly remembered the rest of that phrase..."All I need is a tall ship, and a wind to sail her by..." Was that how it went? No matter, because my mind had already morphed it into something else..."All I need is a Sovereign, and a tall belief in it's ability...
 
Now if we could just limit some of these strings to less than 100 posts I would smile a little more. I just reviewed past posts and one stands out above all others. EXCAL CHARGER!!!! over ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY INDIVIDUAL POSTS. and 3347 hits on the opening post. Is there really 3347 Excal users out there who have a charging problem??? Are there 3347 Excal users in the USA with this problem? In the world??? Yeah I understand that there are different interests on here but charging your EXCAL night and day, day in and day out. Get a water detector with batteries already. They come in 10, 12 twenty to a pack. And this string is rapidly approaching historic limits.. :cool: Yeah I get it--- the sponsors love it.
 
A little more information in picture form as to why these coils separate and pinpoint better. This also appears why they seem to handle rough ground better and allow higher sensitivity settings, as they are riding on less ground IMO and thus stew in less ground matrix. Higher sensitivity settings, more depth, less target degradation due to mineral content than a conventional DD.

The concentric feel to the center might be a little overstated in the picture. It does feel there, though, just not probably as big. It makes the center of the coil extremely hot and so reduces the chances of just nicking the side and missing a target you didn't fully sweep over.

Separation across the entire coil is very good, but the last 4 or 5" of length near the tip or tail seems to be VERY sharp. While it was apparent on the 15x12 compared to the stock coil, the 12x10 makes it feel like you could cut a finger on the sharp magnetic field it is generating. Recovery speed means NOTHING. Coil field dynamics are where it's at, and while the 10" Tornado was good the SEF is outstanding.

When it comes to unmasking ability a large portion of a machine's ability in that respect is coil field dynamics, not recovery speed. After that, when overlap of two targets exists then it's up to the machine to sound off to non-ferrous targets while ignoring something like a nail. The Sovereign with Iron Mask ON is the most capable machine in this respect than I've ever used in that respect. As recently just evidenced yesterday by the two wheats, barber quarter, and iron in the ground. I was not only able to see all three coins distinctly that were very close together, but the Sovereign was also able to ignore the iron in close proximity to all of them. Coil placement and knowing how to understand what the Sovereign is telling you is primary in recovering targets like this.

If you don't believe it's possible then you are right, and if you do believe it's possible then you are also right. Perception and belief in one's ability is often the deciding factor in success or failure to anything in life. I know what this machine can do and I believe in that ability. Find excuses or reasons to fail and you will. Explore the hidden strengths of this machine and you will be greatly rewarding. There is nothing I have yet to ask of this machine that it wasn't more than capable of doing for me, so long as I knew the proper way to ask (technique and settings). Instead of putting so much energy in coming up with reasons why things can't be done, I prefer to use that motivation to find ways that it can. As in detecting and other things in life, I find success more often than failure with that mindset.
 
There are certain laws of physics that just can't be bent. One of those pertains to the dynamics of magnetic fields generated by the TX coil in a detector. To the point, if target A blocks the detection field from target B then the detector has no chance to analyze the two. That's were I think most of the credit is due in any perceived performance improvement of the Explorer SE or Etrac over prior Explorer models. The variations of the 10" coil that came and went on the Explorers were probably the worst coils I have ever used on any machine, regardless of size. The stock 10" Tornado pinpoints and separates so much better to me on the Sovereign. However, as improved as it is it's still a conventional DD coil with the pros and cons there of. The Pro Coil is a vast improvement over even that. But, based on numerous head to head tests and comparisons of the Pro Coil to the 12x10 in the field, the 12x10 is an even further enhancement in depth, separation, and ability to hit coins on edge or masked in some form or fashion. Sure, there are some would disagree but as a whole I'd say the majority lean toward the 12x10 in those respects.

So that's were my money is. Any perceived better separation, less nulling, greater depth, or target unmasking of the Etrac or SE in comparison to prior Explorer models and even the Sovereign is just that to me- Coil Ability. I can say that the 12x10 on the GT gives the machine the feel of a much faster processor, easier seemingly "effortless" separation ability without having to get as intense in coil investigation, faster reaction over and between targets, and so on. I can't over state all these things about this coil in comparison to the stock 10" coil and to some extent even the 15x12. It's that much of an advancement in all these abilities and, as said, it is showing me thus far (with still more tests to go to say otherwise) greater depth as well. The audio is enhanced...Crisper, sharper, more decisive in terms of multiple targets being present and such. This may very well be the best coil I have ever used on any machine, regardless of type or size. That may be premature in statement, as fact hasn't totally eclipsed hope yet in terms of my impressions.

Beyond coil ability there is a fine line where the machine's ability to analyze and separate morphed target signals becomes important. This is when two targets are located together in such a way that sweeping over them with the coil causes the machine to take in both items at once. Overlapping targets or ones directly side by side can be in effect "washed" in the coil's magnetic field equally and for all piratical purposes at the same time. When this happens it's now up to the machine to decide what it is going to do with that signal. Most machines will either null it out as iron, or severely average that signal down to something you probably wouldn't consider digging. Not so with the Sovereign in my tests. It's ability to produce coin signals lost in iron, or coin signals from silver dimes laying DIRECTLY under a round or square tab when I've notched that tab out is simply amazing.

No other machine, including my Explorers, has shown me such success and capability in both reporting true target IDs or ones only slightly averaged (by say 2 to 6 digits) when this happens. Sure, there will still be those situations were that isn't going to happen, but what I've seen makes that circumstance far more of a rarity than I have experience on any other machine over the years. The ability of Iron Mask to work it's magic is something to behold if you know what you are looking for. Find reasons to make it fail and you'll taint your results.

Open your mind to potential and it will amaze you. Don't listen to those who say things can't be done, don't work as well as brand X, or must be a fluke in some way. This machine is deeper than anything I've ever owned, it unmasks targets better than anything I've ever owned, and it's sound and VDI capability are second to none. I've used machines with more VDI resolution on coins, but that was much more a hindrance than a help at producing stable target IDs at depth or in rough ground.

Believe in this machine and ask it to do things for you that no other machine can, regardless of cost, and you might be surprised to see how willing it is to produce. Sit around and think negative, or look to more bells and whistles and money as your deciding factor in ability, and I guarantee you you'll only continue to search for the ultimate detector. I've been down that road several times over many years, even detouring back to dead ends (machines) where I thought things would be different this time. Only now have I seen, saw, and heard enough to no longer have that doubt in my mind. I'm home...
 
I thought it was over but I see you still want to continue with this I'm right and you all are wrong including Minelab snippets hidden in the guise of coil tests now but that's OK because regardless of our differences I still think the GT is a great detector.
 
Now tell me true....which coil is better a 15" W.O.T. coil or a 12"x10" SEF Coil?

No Bovine Excrement now!
I want the truth. Maybe you can't handle the truth.
 
Better at what ? ......

I have not owned either coil, but I just ordered a 10 x 12 SEF .......This is my reasoning ....

THe 15" WOT is heavy, but it covers more area per swipe .....

I think that they are probably both as deep as each other ......

The big reason I went with the 10 x 12 is not just that it's lighter , I think it will disect targets better, it will have better seperation , and it hits quicker and harder and has it's own signature sound ....

Oh, and i'ts cheaper too !!.....Jim
 
I have both the wot 15 and 10x12, for me the Wot 15 is deeper, covers more area as you also detect well away from the coil to the sides(bleed out or something like that) I don't notice much difference in the weight so its better for me at the beach, the 10x12 smaller, a more focussed coverage and i think would be the better choice in trashy ground like parks etc or a beach with loads of iron but for depth its slightly short(not much) on the Wot.
I had a 12x15 SEF, now that was slightly deeper than the wot, pinpointing was a brease a great coil for beaches, better in trashy ground than the wot too, unfortunately i sold it with the Elite i used it on when i bought the Explorer as with the explorer i bought a new 12x15. Continued to use the 12x15 on the etrac till i swapped it out for the 15x18.(i'm thinking a possible mistake on my part)

I now have the Wot 15 again as it came with a broken xs2apro that i was given free, now fixed. With a recent trade i did, a F75 swop for a GT on a plugger shaft, i got the 10x12, tried it a few times but i have reverted to the Wot 15 on both the sovereigns when not using the Etrac as i mainly do the beaches. I would gladdly swap the 10x12 out for a12x15, any takers :), its almost new, if not i will probably put it on my excalibur once warrenty expires.
 
The 12x10 did well today in terms of seperation. Was able to run sensitivity at full blast with no falsing. Very stable...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1315353
 
Got my second silver ring with the 12x10 yesterday. Along with I think 4 silver coins thus far this coil is doing very well considering the little amount of time I've used it thus far...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1315353,page=2
 
Headed out today for an hour and a half or so and went back to that field where I got the WWI (I think) button a few weeks back. The 12x10 was almost completely stable at full sensitivity but I found the ID was more stable at depth when set to around 10PM on the dial. Ended up getting a loud signal that I thought was going to be a clad quarter (180 signal) at about 4 to 5" because it was so loud. The ID was stable both ways. Dug down 5" and still no clad. Hmmm....Starting to think it was a big piece of junk deeper in the ground. Dug another 2" or so and now I see something the size of a quarter still stuck in the dirt in the bottom of the hole. Pulled it out and it turned out it was another quarter sized button. Wow, didn't expect a coin sized object that deep with how hard/loud it hit. Measured the depth and it was 7.5" deep. I'm impressed it banged loud and clear like it was only 4 to 5" deep and gave a real easy ID. Had it been another 3 or 4" deep I'm sure I would have had no trouble hitting it.

Also dug another button with the same or a very similar face that's about the size of a half dime or so. Pics of both and further details can be found here...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1315353,page=2
 
Hey Critterhunter, you sure you're not working behind the scenes for Kellyco? (ha ha) You're doing a great job selling the SEF coil. Mine (thanks to you) is due to arrive tomorrow. Thanks for all the detailed posts. Can't wait to give it a go....
 
I dug up a few of Wpruden's field reports on the 12x10 for his Sovereign. Thought I would throw them here for easy reference to people looking for more opinions on this coil. All of what follows is his messages...

received my 12x10 sef coil today and went to my test garden and let me say this first, that I have only used the 8" bbs coil on my sovereign before so you know the comparison.
1. The 12x10 is very much more stable than my 8" coil.
2. 12x10 is a very hot coil! I had a concern that I wouldn't be able to get close to small trees (due to the V section) 4" in diameter and less to get those coins, but the V section is hot on the surface any way, further field testing needs to be done in that area.
3. coins on edge with depth I can pick up more easily. some I couldn't pick up no more due to some type of masking. yet I picked up other coins in my garden that the 8" coil did not see at all
4. On depth I could pick out one of my dimes with sensitivity at lowest setting and in auto.
5. Pinpointing: I will need more time somewhat due to the coil being super hot! Like that V section I suppose on targets with depth the hotness will weaken and then use the center line.
Overall on my test garden the 10x12 is deep and will grab those coins on edge more plus at better depth than my 8" coil.
BUT as for those trashy areas I'm not so sure on separation as I now cannot see some targets due to some type of masking.
I made my test garden several years ago with little knowledge at the time, (and did not want to move the coins) so yes it turns out to be more realistic and challenging.
The improvements over the 8" coil: super deep, very stable in higher mineral and more stable than my 8" when approaching electro mechanical fields.
Grabs coins on edge and at depth. I've read the wot does the same with coins on edge. But thats about it.
I will say the 12x10 is smaller than what I expexcted. Smile Critterhunter!!!!

Like I said pinpointing I want to do some actual field testing as I could'nt get bthe results I wanted due to my test garden set up.
As far as separation in my test garden due to the lay out separation was not as good as the 8"fbs coil.
I will give more details on this after actual field results.

Yes, I'm pleased with this coil, being so hot and to be this stable is great.

(NEXT)

I just came in from the field and I will say that the pinpointing is very good, more so than I expected!

Oh one thing I did I had a weak battery in my detector, so that was the issue with my threshold quick change of batteries and all settled out! MY FAULT for rushing to the test garden.

This 12x10 ROCKS!!!!

A larger coil, that is more stable than my 8"bbs non slimline version. sharpe separation and last but not least deeper by size and higher sensitivity settings! You can't beat that! Trust me I've read post where other did not care for this coil but I've found plenty of deep coins in the woods with that coil the deepest being 11" and many coins in the 8" range.

The coil sounds are very rich as I was out again today only in the field listening to clarity of all targets.SUPER TONES! CRYSTAL CLEAR!

It should be a SUPER SPRING.

Even the explorer guys say its super. Over 90% of the explorer guys say its better than the 11" Pro coil. That its deeper and like I said has better clarity on tones, super clear!

This sef coil enhances the detectors like nothing ever seen before.

I may have to get that 6x8 coil and quick.

As far as I'm concerned DDs are a thing of the PAST! sorry but that is my opinion.
These coils are super, ITS LIKE HAVING A DETECTOR STEROIDS, only its legal and heatly!!!

Heck, I wonder how they are working on the single frequency units.
I think detecting has just been revolutionized, it is what it is!

later fellow hunters

(NEXT)

I finaly made it out this weekend with my new sef coil 10x12. It was only my second time out with it and I have owned it for 5 months! Yes I have been busy.
Let me say this: I went to a local park that I use to learn my detectors. Since I did not want to dig anything deep in this particular park I hunted in silent mode. Targets were everywhere. So I went to max disc. I covered a few areas that I had been over with my sovereign before only with the 8"bbs coil, minelab advantage 8" & 10" coils, garrett ace 250, whites xl pro and tesoro silver umax.
I dug 2 quarters, 10 dimes, 5 lincolns and a nickle and skipped all the zincs pennies, all clad in over 1 hour. Here is the catch all coins were in the 1-3 inch range!!!! all on edge!!! I know for a fact I passed over these with my other detectors that MISSED such shallow targets! Even the the sovereign with the 8" coil missed. The coins I found have been in the ground for some time!
This sef coil is incredible! I can't wait to go back to my old sites! This coil should be called the COIN EDGE BUSTER COIL!
The signals are very clear as well! This coil does what they say it does!
I will use this coil in 2 ways
1. shallow targets in silent search.
2. deep targets with threshold and zero disc.
3. AM pinpointing is super on this coil.
 
One interesting thing of note in what he says in that last message...He mentioned he dug quite a few coins very shallow that he plain out missed with his other detectors and even the 8" BBS coil. I've already stated before that I seem to be digging more silvers and other coins on edge with the 15x12 and now the 12x10 than I have on any other detector. Heck, even that silver ring a few weeks back was on edge, and I *know* I had pounded the snot out of that spot with my Explorers and must have passed it over numerous times. I believe these SEF coils have unique eddy current configurations that cause them to hit coins on edge or masked in certain ways that conventional DD and concentric coils have a hard time with for some reason.

Here's the point, and it's a bit concerning to me- Now I have to make an effort to dig those shallow "clad" signals at worked out spots of mine. You just don't know if that's going to be a silver or other old coin that, even though it's shallow, other machines with conventional coils just aren't seeing. Sure, I can calibrate my meter to go 181 on silver and that tips me off, but just the same you should never rely on a meter to tell you what kind of a coin you have under the coil. Many coins can and do read like others do to moisture, minerals, ground content, position (being somewhat on edge), etc. Besides, even if I've got my meter tweaked to go 181 on silver, who's to say that a nice shallow old Indian head or other old copper isn't lurking just under the surface in such a way that other coils walk right over it.

Reason for bringing this up is that I when I was working that spot the other day where I got the two buttons I hit probably 10 or 15 "clad" signals near the surface that I walked right over. While that might not sound like anything interesting, keep in mind that this site has been worked extensively by me and my friends for years. I had thought it curious that I was running into that many real shallow clad signals, which I never seem to do there, and now I'm really wondering if a few of those might have been something special. I know it's hard to dig shallow clads at an old park that is loaded with them when all you want to do is dig coin signals 6" or deeper, but at least make the effort at sites where shallow clads don't exist by the thousands. In particular if you go back to an old site and notice it strange that it seems to have more clad signals than normal, then I'd be highly suspicious that all those are indeed clads.

I'm more of a depth hunter than going by what type of coin I think it is when I'm after old coins. If it's past X amount of depth by sound and I know how deep silver starts to show up at a site then that's how deep I dig and deeper. I've dug enough deep "wheats" or other coins on my Explorers and other machines with the capability to tell coin types apart that turned out to be silvers to know not to trust that kind of resolution at all. In any case, even if soil conditions are ideal I've dug plenty of silver dimes that were worn around the edges enough to read down in the copper penny range on other machines.

Just throwing it out there for people. With these SEF coils don't just expect to possibly find coins deeper than you ever have, but also you've got to respect the unmasking and on edge capability of these coils for those shallow coins too. And remember, because they are on edge it's not just the SEF's seemingly better ability to see them, but I bet even if somebody else was using an SEF on say an Explorer or Etrac they might be apt to pass them over as something other than silver. A coin on edge can slightly drop in VDI numbers just like a worn dime. Dig those shallow clads with your SEF when they aren't floating around at a site by the millions! If you think it's just another copper penny or even a zinc by the numbers don't think that for sure, as it might be a silver reading a bit lower due to the coin's orientation in the ground, or being masked in some way that is very slightly averaging the number down a hair, where as other machines or coils can't even get a good clad signal out of it, let alone a silver one.
 
A note on unmasking ability. Notice that he said that some of his test garden coins were not able to be seen by the 12x10 due to masking, while still yet others were that his 8" BBS coil couldn't see. A few things on this...First, remember that the 8" BBS coil is I believe 7.25" in diameter and not a true 8". I never realized how small this coil was until I repaired a friend's Excal for him. I can see now why some guys prefer an 8" coil (I would assume the 8" Tornado is also 7.25"?) over going to the S-5 or Excelerator 5". That 8" coil is pretty darn small and wouldn't suffer all that much more in terms of masking compared to a 5". Still, my S-5 is 5.5" I think and I'm very impressed with it's depth, so I probably would have still opted for the S-5 in terms of offering maximum separation.

Anyway, while these SEF coils do one heck of a job in terms of separation, nothing that big is going to compete with a 7.25" coil in every situation. On the other hand, there were coins it could see that the BBS coil couldn't. I feel these SEF coils can unmask coins that even much smaller coils have trouble with for some reason, not to mention coins on edge and such. It probably boils down to the morphed hybrid field dynamics these SEF coils seem to put out. There will probably be days when a 5 or 8" coil are going to unmask coins an SEF can't, while on other days the reverse might be true. In terms of left/right separation I don't see how it gets any better than the 12x10. It even feels like the field width on this coil is thinner/sharper than my S-5, but when it comes to length of the detection field of course an 8 or 5" coil is going to do better. That's why I like to wiggle the tip of the SEF at targets to sniff them out. When you do that it's deadly, though still I feel better than the stock 10" coil when using the center on both of those.

Either way, I'm in the camp that any improved separation/unmasking ability of the SE or Etrac is due more to the Pro Coil than anything else. I've read where guys using an older Explorer using a 12x10 or Pro Coil saw no performance advantage to the SE or Etrac in those respects. For that reasons somebody considering going that route might look into buying an older Explorer model and using an SEF or Pro coil on it for a vast cost savings over the SE/Etrac.

A bit off subject. I mainly wanted to cover the 8" BBS coil versus 12x10 thing. The old rule still applied regardless of which machine you own out there. While the 12x10 appears to have much better ability in separation/unmasking than conventional DD or concentric designs of the same size, if you want to sniff out the real tough ones mixed in trash there are still going to be days when you'd want to go to as small of a coil as possible. In that respect the coil size is where it's at, not what the detector does with it. Sure, perhaps an Etrac/SE has some minor improvement over older Explorer models with some software tweaks, but I'd still feel much more confident in the reason for that being behind the coil and not what the machine is doing. You can't bend the laws of physics. The coil has to be able to see the two targets in the ground, and that's where it comes down to coils. If the coil can't see the coin masked by the trash then I don't care if you've got all the programming in the world stuffed into the control box, there is nothing there for the detector to analyze.
 
The other day I headed out to an old school for about an hour of hunting with the 12x10. There were houses very near by so max stable sensitivity without falsing was about 1PM on the dial. I could hunt at around 10 or 11PM but I really didn't want to put up with the random RF unstability here and there as I moved from one area to another.

Managed 3 or 4 wheats, a few of which that were probably around 5" deep and provided strong audio/ID, not that that deep is a real challenge anyway. A little while later I was getting a somewhat decent coin signal that sounded pretty deep. It wasn't that the audio/ID wasn't strong, it's just that I could tell it was deep. The audio/ID wasn't giving me a completely perfect coin signal, but I decided to dig because the area had a good bit of iron and at the depth it sounded something might be causing the ID/audio to roam a bit on me.

If it was a coin I was expecting it to be in the 8 to 9" range or so. Dug down over 8" and still no target. Started to suspect I was chasing a large piece of trash but figured I'd better to another inch or two deeper to be sure. With a little more dirt removed I can see something still stuck in the bottom of the hole. Pried it out and it turned out it was a toy car. It's very thin (smashed) and a bit smaller than your typical hot wheel size. Stuck my Pro Pointer in the ground to measure the depth and it was about a half inch deeper than it's length. Since the Pro Pointer is 9" long that means I hit this thing at around 9.5" deep. Pretty impressive for this coil considering the 1PM sensitivity setting. That explains the ID/audio roaming on me slightly, because hot wheels like this often give a somewhat iffy coin signal. It was a fairly strong signal with loud audio (even with the volume turned all the way down), it's just that it moved around a bit because of the nature of the metal in these toy cars.

While it's not the best indicator of the depth potential of this coil on coins, I'd at least say that I should at least expect silver quarters, large cents, half dollars, or of course silver dollars at atleast this depth and perhaps another inch to three deeper at this particular site using this coil. I'm talking this site here, where there was nearby RF noise, some mineral content, and a lot of iron in the ground. If anything this should be of interest to relic hunters looking for similar sized targets at depth. Thus far I think the deepest coins I've dug with the 12x10 have been a few wheat pennies at like 8 to 8.5", and a barber quarter at somewhere around 8" or so. As the ground gets more moisture in it I expect even better depths.
 
Top