ToneID - Conductive or Ferrous?

[detectorbase]

Hello All

I've been working and trying real hard to get these settings down.. and getting my brain around the tones. Yesterday I was successful hunting in AM for the full 2 hours I was out. I also stayed in Ferrous for the whole hunt. The park that I'm training myself is 'trashy'. I didn't realize HOW trashy until I dedicated myself to AM.. and man.. is it trashy!!

I'm having a real hard time with tones that I'm catching on the edge of the coil. I'll get the fluty tones, but after wasting time pinpointing, etc., I realize I'm at the edge of the target. Once I move the center of the coil over the target, I'll get the true 'junk' tone. Is this just the nature of the beast?

I'm also getting a ton of those 'iffy' signals. I'll get the high pitch in one direction and low tone the other. I'll watch the digital jump from low ferrous/high conductive (0/29) with the high tone, and then go high ferrous/high conductive (31/29). I'm also seeing a lot of 8/22 signals (seems to be screw tops/pull tabs everytime) that almost sound worth digging.

It's starting to feel that I'm going down hill since my initial good finds. I know there are more keepers here, I'm hoping that I'm just not getting the coil over the targets.. and not misunderstanding the signals. I'm back to digging lots of pulltabs (beaver tails) that are fairly deep (3-4").. as long as they're not on the surface or close to it.. I don't mind (I want those old nickels too).

Thanks for any suggestions!
DB

 

[Hotcz70]

This is exactly what happenned with me and you can't let it get the best of you. It isn't etched in stone that you have to choose and stick with one or the other just yet. That's why we have the choice. Yes before long it's better to choose one and stick with it...but you are still learning which of them you want to choose. Neither is better than the other....it's just a matter of preference to the individual. Once you have played with both...then try and make the choice. I personally have played with AM for a few months now...and I have come to the decision that I'm sticking with conductive/IM22. That was pretty much the same as used on my EX2. Whichever you choose...it will come. If you choose conductive...then you have to deal with some nulling. If you choose ferrous...then you have to deal with exactly what you stated above....a multitude of sounds and signals. Don't let it overwhelm you though. This forum is great for opinions and help.

 

[detectorbase]

Thanks Bryce-IL

The conductive/IM25 was where I was at when I found my coins. I think I want to give ferrous/AM a shot, and the only way to do it is to fully commit to it (I think). Yesterday was the first day I was able to stay in AM all day(I've been riding with ferrous for the last few days). I think I just need to know when to draw the line... if things don't work out.

To add salt to the injury.. it snowed 4" lastnight with more to come. Maybe a break might be nice (read the manual.. read more posts) then try again.

Again, I have to say thanks for all the advice given on this thread. There is some really good stuff, and it's made learning my machine much quicker (or at least I think it has.. the proof is in the finds.. and I'm still working on those).

Thanks!!!
DB

 

[swingman]

I've had more time with the Explorers than you, and still experience much of the same as you. I dig a lot of nails, because the sounds are 'iffy'.
And I'm still, apparently, a CONDUCT-first hunter. Maybe 'FERROUS' tones will come later. I think target sounds were much more definitive with my Sovereign XS-2. Hang in there - maybe you're trying to do too much all at once. Those good park targets have been there a long time, so they will likely remain there until you dig them up!

 

[swingman]

n/t

 

[tomtowns]

n/t

 

[detectorbase]

Originally, when I was running conductive/IM25, my sensitivity was at 22 manual. Since switching to ferrous/AM, I had to pull back the sensitivity to 19. Yesterday, I switched it to auto to see if there would be any noticeable change from manual at that level (answer: not really).

DB

 

[James N.D.]

I think you should find a less trashy area in this Park you are hunting at and start there. This way you will get use to hearing the Deeper Iffy Signals and the Good Repeatable Signals without the Junk next to targets. This will help you get an idea of what the Signal will sound like and then you will have an idea what to look for when in Trash. I know that the Signals are going to be a bit different when in Trash, but you need to start off with simple, easy to learn targets and not just jump into the hard signals like you want to. You are slowing down your learning rate the way you are previously doing it. When I first got my Explorer XS back in Fall of 2001, I went to an Old Park called Island Park in Fargo, ND and just started to dig good repeatable targets. At the time I was running in Conduct Tones, 28 Semi-Auto Sensitivity, Deep On, Variability 10, Gain 10, Thresh Hold set where it was a slight hum, Response Normal, and running in Digital Mode while running in 0 Iron Mask. And the finds were unbelievable! Seated's, Barber's, Indian's, and those Old Nickels that you like to find were still here at this Pounded Park. I still use Digital Mode to this day and if you are curious about how well I have done with my machine using this method, then search the archive postings from last year and it will show you that I know how to run my machine to optimal performance to get the goodies that everyone seeks. My new settings are now 22 Semi-Auto, Iron Mask at -8, Fast On unless clean area, and the rest of the settings are still the same. I do know that you cannot run the Explorer SE with a High Gain or it suffers in performance and these settings may not work in your area but you have to find the settings that work in your area to get the performance you want out of your detector. So, you need to first start at the bottom and work your way up or you will no less be another Ex-Explorer user that gave up because you jumped right in trying to make astounding finds without taking the necessary time of learning this beast. And get yourself a Smaller Coil if you don't already have one. So Good Luck and HH and remember to always think positive when out in the field, no matter how the day is going with finds!

 

[detectorbase]

[quote James N.D.]I think you should find a less trashy area in this Park you are hunting at and start there. This way you will get use to hearing the Deeper Iffy Signals and the Good Repeatable Signals without the Junk next to targets. This will help you get an idea of what the Signal will sound like and then you will have an idea what to look for when in Trash. I know that the Signals are going to be a bit different when in Trash, but you need to start off with simple, easy to learn targets and not just jump into the hard signals like you want to. You are slowing down your learning rate the way you are previously doing it. When I first got my Explorer XS back in Fall of 2001, I went to an Old Park called Island Park in Fargo, ND and just started to dig good repeatable targets. At the time I was running in Conduct Tones, 28 Semi-Auto Sensitivity, Deep On, Variability 10, Gain 10, Thresh Hold set where it was a slight hum, Response Normal, and running in Digital Mode while running in 0 Iron Mask. And the finds were unbelievable! Seated's, Barber's, Indian's, and those Old Nickels that you like to find were still here at this Pounded Park. I still use Digital Mode to this day and if you are curious about how well I have done with my machine using this method, then search the archive postings from last year and it will show you that I know how to run my machine to optimal performance to get the goodies that everyone seeks. My new settings are now 22 Semi-Auto, Iron Mask at -8, Fast On unless clean area, and the rest of the settings are still the same. I do know that you cannot run the Explorer SE with a High Gain or it suffers in performance and these settings may not work in your area but you have to find the settings that work in your area to get the performance you want out of your detector. So, you need to first start at the bottom and work your way up or you will no less be another Ex-Explorer user that gave up because you jumped right in trying to make astounding finds without taking the necessary time of learning this beast. And get yourself a Smaller Coil if you don't already have one. So Good Luck and HH and remember to always think positive when out in the field, no matter how the day is going with finds![/quote]

You still running in conduct? I'm currently using a 8" SunRay.. would you recommend something smaller? 5" or 4.5x7"? I'll adjust my threshold.. I think it's running a little loud (got new headphones). I'm not going to give up.. I'm re-al stubborn that way.

The area of the park where I found my coins was a semi-clean part of the park. I was running with Fast on.. maybe I should try Deep on there, and see what's up. You're saying IM -8? How close is that to all metal? Just trying to get a comparison to XS to SE on the IM. I've been running AM all day yesterday, but was running it at 29/30 the days before.

Thanks for the advice!
DB

 

[James N.D.]

I am still running in Conductive Tones and do great with it. I have tried using Ferrous Tones with Iron Mask at -16 but it is way too much to listen to when in Iron Infested areas but it does help if you take the time with it. The little I have used Ferrous, I have recovered Coins and other items but I stick with Conductive Tones and just go SLOOOOOOWWWW. The Iron Mask for All-Metal on the Explorer XS is -16 while the Explorer SE is now -32 I believe. The reason for the more Iron Mask feature on the SE is so you can Fine-Tune it more than the previous models of the Explorer. It depends on what to use for Recovery. If the site has a medium amount of Iron that has pockets of clean ground, then try using Deep On once, but if the ground is full of Iron then use the Fast On feature, then the detector will respond faster over nulls, if you are in Conduct. This is the hard part about this, You are running in Iron Mask 29/30 in Ferrous Tones and I am running in Conduct Tones with an Iron Mask of -8, so if you continue running in Ferrous, then I would listen for the High Tones, Medium Tones, and forget the Low Tones because those are going to be Iron, that is if you run Iron Mask wide open -32. As for getting a 5" Coil, it could very well help since I did try one at a Fairgrounds once and had beginner's luck with it. I was using my Stock Coil and decided to give the 5" Sunray a try over some Trash Infested Ground that I had previously been over the day before and with the first Half-Sweep, I got a signal that was telling me that there was something good. I believe it was either 27 or 28 on Digital (Explorer XS doesn't have the Ferrous Readout like the 2 or SE) and about 6" Deep. So I dug it and when I removed the Plug from the ground, there in the bottom of the hole was a Silver Washington Quarter staring back at me. I was in shock that I had missed this with the Stock Coil. I also found a few Wheat's when I used the 5" Coil so it does work well in Trash. Another great Coil is the 5X10 Joey Coil made by the makers of the WOT Coil. This is my Trash Coil because you can get between targets and into tight spots like Tree Roots and under Bushes. So, I think it would be a good idea to get the 5" Coil because it will help in the Trash. Hope this has been a big help and Good Luck and HH.

 

[Architex]

Hey DB I'm also learning and having frustration but I'm getting there of that helps you at all. Yesterday I picked a silver medal from many pulltabs. It was shallow so the signal was strong but I felt good about it anyway. I am now running ferrous because I think it may help pull gold rings from pull tabs, not sure yet.

Remember, nobodys life depends on this stuff.

 

[detectorbase]

[quote Architex]Remember, nobodys life depends on this stuff.[/quote]

Ha! Well said. I feel good about things.. just need a break in the weather and I'll be back out there.

DB

 

[Steve(MS)]

I was starting to feel like the Lone Stranger! Seriously, I have tried ferrous sounds too but I like conduct better. I think there is a trade off either way you go. If you use ferrous and are in a place with some modern non-ferrous trash then you will have to look at the meter more to see what type signal you are receiving because zinc all the way to thru nickels and even below will all sound similar, that is with a solid lock on signals. You can run ferrous with no disc but I can't tell the subtle sounds of the just higher than nail sounds from nail sounds, with conduct I can. Yet with conduct in trashy areas, you will need to run a minimum amount of disc. All in all, It's whatever you get used to and what works best for you but with conduct you will have to run a little disc unless the ground is very clean. Then there are some ferrous sound users that run a little disc. also.

 

[James N.D.]

learns their Explorer. For me, Conduct is the way to go but I have switched over on occasion to Ferrous just to see if I could find some hidden Coins amongst Iron. You choose what might work good for you and after that the learning process starts and within 6 months, the user should have a pretty good idea on what the Explorer is telling them and after that, for the most part, it's a piece of cake. Just takes time to learn this detector and I think most New User's expect unbelievable results as soon as they take it out of the box but you have to understand the Explorer before you start making those unforgettable finds that last a lifetime. Good Luck and HH.

 

[Charles (Upstate NY)]

Hunting a trash heap is no easy task but you are on the right track with an 8 inch coil. Try this, use the edit feature to black out the entire bottom 70% of the smartfind screen. This will allow in iron and higher conductive coins and eliminate the vast majority of trash with the exception of maybe aluminum twist caps. Tones ferrous. If you really want to dig a nickel or two you can use the learn mode to sample a nickel and open up a small window in the blacked out area for those. Its typically helpful to turn your sensitivity way down when sampling.

I have a high trash program similar to this with windows open for nickels and the smaller gold coins.

Next setup your iron mask screen for all metal, zero discrimination. Now go hunt. When you get a coin tone, sweep it from a few different angles, try to get centered on it with short 2 inch sweeps. Keep an eye on the depth and make note of what you are digging at a given depth. Older coins are likely to be at or below a particular depth once you establish the old coin depth ignore the shallow stuff and pick a day and just dig the deep signals at that depth or greater. What you want to do is fast track the learning curve by digging as many deeper, older coins as you can in a short period of time. It will click pretty soon how the deeper older coins sound and behave differently than your average shallower clad coin.

It also sounds like you are having some issues with the rusty nails falsing. You might read my Getting Started tip in the Explorer Tips section of my website www.detectorgear.com on how do deal with the rusty nails.

Happy hunting.

Charles