Tesoro Vaquero or Cibola?

[christian_99]

While recently scanning the threads, I noticed some individuals trying to make a choice of "which machine would be better"? The Vaquero or the Cibola? Which goes deeper? Can the Cibola really get a quarter at 24"? Let me answer some of those questions for you, I have used and own both of these machines and can they BOTH get great depth? The answer to that question is YES. Do you have to adjust the GB on the Vaquero often? I do- in fact I urge anyone who has this machine to do so- as you will find coins and artifacts VERY deep. Do you have to slow down with them while you are sweeping the ground? YES- if you go too fast you will lose many signals and waste your time. If you slow down, you will be amazed at how much you will find that others just walked right over. When I go digging I bring both machines and in fact I have harnessed them and carry them both to the site that I am digging at. Once in the site, I will review the area, and based upon this review will use either machine and just lay the other machine down to be used later. Or carry the machine on my back and switch machines when needed. I will normally use the Cibola with a 5.25 coil to go over old iron, black ash, area's and pull up buttons, bullets, and percussion caps. With the Vaquero- and the standard coil, I will use it to see if I have missed anything that the Cibola didn't find on the initial scan. Both are so light that you can do this and have both machines at your beckon to search any area- very well. I have the top of the line machine from another MFR. It has so many frequencies and supposedly can "see through" iron as if it wasn't there. However, where I hunt- in iron infested area's, this isn't the case. I would get a great signal and dig down a foot or more to find an iron nail. One hole would take me about 10 to 15 minutes to dig- and with trying to pin-point the find with the soil disturbed was quite another adventure. And the end reward for a about a foot deep hole an iron nail? Sure, some may say- its the user- etc. I agree with those comments, but if you want results, real results- both The Vaquero and Cibola are something anyone should have if they are looking for a deep searching detector's that can "look through" iron and go deep. Sure top of the line machines are great and you can "see" what you have detected with graphs and maybe digital numbers. But how good is that when that information is wrong?

Those digital numbers indicate something good is in the ground, or the graph shows a target that is possibly very good. The audio says, "DIG", and when you dig, and dig, and yes...dig. All you find is a nail, over and over again with the occasional good find scattered in with these consistent bad finds. What produces better results? The $1000 machine with all the bells and whistles?

I have recently submitted a find that I made in October 2005, for the "best finds" category in another forum. This one find was made at a depth of over +14" in highly mineralized soil with over 4" of that soil being "disturbed" iron-ized soil. I had searched this one area for over six years with the top of the line machine, which was mentioned earlier. Don't get me wrong, some finds were made with this machine -but say during a seven or eight hour period of digging up many nails and possibly one or two bullets- a change needed to be made. I started hitting the same site with both the Vaquero and Cibola, and in the SAME area's I had detected before with that top of the line machine, finds started popping out of the ground. I could go into areas that other machines couldn't and pull out percussion caps at depths of up to six inches. Bullets and buttons with incredible depths in HIGHLY mineralized soil. Since both machines are light, I could swing all day and in fact if I had to- all night without any fatigue. This is a good thing especially when the temperature is at 100 degree's or it is freezing and you have to break through the soil with your shovel to get to the signal.

So for those of you who are wondering, which machine should I get? Why not get them both? If you want results the choice is yours-

 

[cspene]

n/t

 

[Wirechief]

Great post and I too have realized that bells and whistle type detectors have a place but if you want to get serious and put your experience and know how to use then something like the Vaquero or Cibola will get it done. I have been detecting an area day after day for about 3 weeks now. After using VID and Tone ID instruments I did find a lot of coins but I started using the Tejon and found that the fancy high dollar instruments had missed obvious targets also. But I have always known that the digital instruments are not going to find some targets just because you have some kind of readout. I just wanted to backup Christians post and man are these Tesro's light!

John T., CET

 

[birdman]

Great post!! I was wondering ,how many more finds do you make when mopping up at the end with the Vaquero? This is some really good info. One of these machines will be my next purchase. I just have to convince the wife that I need another detector.LOL

 

[Richard@BackwoodsDetectors]

around here the Vaquero gets the ...The reason is that the Cibola hits hard on hot rocks... The Vaquero handles them much better... In an area where that is not an issure, a Cibola would be fine... Both are great detectors, probably the best that Tesoro has made with the exception of the Lobo ST...Thanks Richardntn

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[christian_99]

Well, the V also hits hard rocks but to be honest with you, you can normally figure out what they are before you dig them by turning the disc all the way up and if the signal is still there, you can tell that its gonna be a hot rock. (Only do this in area's of hot rocks as you may pass up a coin or plate!!!) The cibola does the same thing with them, but its still a great machine to go very, very deep.

 

[christian_99]

Actually, it wasn't mopping at all. But the Vaquero and Cibola both have increased my button finds for 2005 to a total of 7 one of them being a VERY GOOD BUTTON, as well as Eagle buttons and cuffs as compared to last year with another TOP OF THE LINE MULTIFREQUENCY MACHINE at a total of four, one also being a very good button. So in a six month period, these machines have done VERY, VERY WELL. Its not so much as depth, but being able to get into the iron and see what others haven't been able too.

 

[christian_99]

I am not really knocking them other than the prices that they are charging for their machines, the warranties that are offered and how many times their units breakdown as compared to other companies. With Tesoro's they have a good reputation and one thing they learned from Dr Edward Demmings, is that quality might cost more in the initial production phase, but will have beneficial returns! This has probably kept more customers more loyal to Tesoro then any other company because they stand by their products. Note, I am not a dealer, neither do I sell or barter anything. I think they have truly quality products which show results! And that is what I think everyone is looking for, which would you prefer- spending 15-20 minutes of digging a hole and finding a rusty square nail, or spending 15-20 minutes in a hole and digging up a button or coin and pinpointing within seconds of finding the object?

 

[Ralph Bryant]

n/t

 

[jsamsky]

The Cibola might find a quarter at 24" in the pinpoint mode, but I doubt it. I've got one and it really is deep. I've found that guys with the metered machines spend more time looking at the meter than they do digging. I've owned Tesoro's for years, and my ear gives me as much info as their meter as to if something is good or not.

 

[DavHut]

...surface clutter trash. Given that you are relic hunting on "clean" terrain - aside from iron at depth - I agree that there is little equal to the Vaquero and/or Cib (hot rocks aside).

Also, the much ballyhooed "slow sweep" of the Vaq does indeed exist - like most Tesoro's Ive ever used. They excel in this regard and always have. Does this result in deeper targets being detected? - why yes, because as you slow down you get better coverage with the VERY SMALL field of detection that occurs at depths. Picture, if you will, the often mentioned "sawtooth" detection pattern...
Is the Vaq the only model where going slow results in better, deeper finds? No way.

What Tesoro has done is been able to increase gain by a notch or two over previous units, while keeping circuit noise to a minimum. This is good and does mean a little more depth. Good for us.

Where I see problems is when the Vaq/Cib is offered to the newcomer as the "DO-IT-ALL" machine and to hades with anyone else.

Imagine, here's this newb with nothing to go on but a bunch of commentary from rabid die-hards on a forum somewhere. They plunk down their money on a Vaq and off they go to the nearest park or school, then they crank 'er up to boost ranges. Not that you cant, mind you, but the glorious finds that are swimming in their heads likley wont materialize, amid all the surface clutter...

Can these machines do-it-all? Sure can. I own more than one Tesoro. Always have. My first ever unit was a Tesoro. Thanks, Jack Gifford.

Is simpler better? Often, yes, particularly when the user is experienced.

Are they for the beginner? I'd say no, unless YOU want to be their over-the-shoulder coach. Otherwise you might be doing them a dis-service by insisting they get one.

 

[John in Florida]

I didn't even realize they had heard of Dr Edward Demmings.

Also, I understand being fooled by deep iron with the Aussie unit.

Awesome button. Keep up the good work!!

Where are you located?

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

is a more complex proposal than what most average consumers take it to mean. "I built it so I'll fix it forever" sounds wonderful but it has it's dark side too. Many simply think that a lifetime warranty means all warranty work is "free". In one sense it is "kinda sorta free" to the particular owner as he or she doesn't have any direct out of pocket expense (other than a portion of shipping in this case) owed to the manufacturer to get their detector (or whatever) fixed. When you peel the onion a tad farther, you realize that warranty costs are "payed forward" by the consumer, in other words when a company has data that says their warranty costs are averaging, say $50 per unit, each person that buys a new product from that company is getting $50 less value in the product itself up front in order to cover the ongoing costs of warranty work. Warranty is rework and as such represents waste to the manufacturer and ultimately is a liability to the consumer as a "hidden" charge built into the cost of a new unit. The longer a company warrants a product, unless they can build a perfect product with zero defects initially and forever, the greater this "hidden" charge can and will be. I'm not picking on Tesoro or even just the detector business as this is happening in all industries. I just am amazed at how some people seem to think "free" warranty work is strictly a good thing. Remember the old adages "nothing is free" and "pay me now or pay me later"?

 

[Dig'n in Va.]

I have owned and used most Tesoro models down thru the years and I still have a few including the Vaquero. But Tesoro is not the brand I turn to if going into mineralized ground. I know there are different types & degrees of mineralization, so I can't speak for all. But I can say, in my dirt, a button 4 or 5 inches deep will not be seen by my Vaquero. I have another brand that can go 8 inches for a button and that is at least 2 inches deeper than the next best one I've tried..I'm not implying that you can't get 14" in your area, but in my dirt if I could detect a button at 14" deep I would be spending some serious time digging up piles of CW relics from the private battle field areas that have been detected by detectors that couldn't see more than a couple inches deep because of the mineralized dirt.. I don't mean for this to be a put down of the Vaquero on a Tesoro forum because I do like Tesoro. But I really favor the performance of the older models. The newer T-V-C models have higher gain and more depth than the older ones, but they suffer in performance in other areas compared to the oldies...just my opinion... Dave

 

[christian_99]

As far as either machine detecting a quarter at 24", I really can't say as I haven't taken a measuring stick out to measure the depth. Plus there are so many variables that are involved its pretty incredible to say the least as in one day, it actually could hit the quarter at 24" with disc set just over iron, and the next day it might not even hit the same quarter at 6". Too many variables and that is what I was alluding to in my previous post. With one site, I would hit it every other day, and with each day the ground conditions would change. If the ground was drying out from a hard rain, the mineralization would be akin to detecting in a mineralized soup! Where the signals were hard to discern and the bits and pieces of hot rocks and hut bricks would be making the machine crackle and pop. In going out to the site on a dryer day without any dew condensation in the ground, the same area would yield percussion caps, bullets, and other items- so the soil matrix changes.

In hindsight, I hunted one camp for many years and would walk through this ravine to get to the primary camp. One day while walking through this thicket with the machine on (1266X) my earphones blared with a great signal. I dug down possibly an inch, just removing the top soil and the brass patina could be seen. I had found a cavalry spur at about 1" depth. Just covered over by pine straw! This led me to search this thicket that I had "thought" I had covered with more determination. Needless to say, in an area that I had pounded and searched with this machine, I started getting signals everywhere. It was at a different time of the year, day, and apparently the soil conditions were just right. I found kepi and cuff buttons, bullets, and many other things in an area that truly had been pounded over the years with old "crater" dig holes still left over from the decades of relic hunters who had searched this area. Signals were literally everywhere and again, this was an area that I had gridded out and searched at an earlier time. My final take from this area, were hundreds of bullets, handful of buttons, spur, and other things that were attributed to a major camp. So what this means is that if you have covered or have "thought" you pounded out a site and searched it completely, there are other factors at play to say perhaps on that day, there might have been higher dew points or condensation in the ground. The earths magnetic field might have been stronger on a given day, pressure systems in the atmosphere and many other factors that are not even known. In other words, go back again and scan the area's that you have supposedly "hunted out" and take mental note of signal quality as well as location of those signals, using tree's, or what other landmarks you can to determine where the signals are. Once you have done this, go back later and see if those sounds have changed or have in fact vanished, or turn out to be "better" signals. You might just be very surprised at the results of this experiment and truly benefit by it.

 

[christian_99]

Dave, I am aware of the extreme soil conditions you are talking about and the soil is border to that what you would find in Orange, Culpeper, or Brandy Station. I just posted something that is interesting in regards to different elements which affect soil conditions and the soil matrix. In regards to the brand X machine is it a brand M machine? Just through curiosity sake...

 

[zeb]

Very encouraging post!

I'm new to Tesoro (DeLeon) so I came to this site to gain useable data. What I found for the most part was extreme negativity toward Tesoro. I almost put my DeLeon for sale on ebay without even trying it.

Then I began to wonder why some people love their DeLeons. Could they be mistaken? I finally have had the chance to test my machine some here in northern Michigan. I had to literally chop my way through ground and gravel (frozen) but I succeeded. See, in Michigan's most northern part, our ground is full of hot rocks and many other minerals. I used a Minelab Excalibur last year and sold it because it couldn't cut it up here. One place I tried it couldn't detect a half dollar 4 inches deep!

Anyway, granted--I've just started testing and the ground is very wet right now--however, the depth of this factory set GB machine is amazing! A few days ago I dug the brass part of a shotgun shell down 10 to 13 inches through gravel and rusty iron! This DeLeon handles small iron and nasty soil like nothing I've ever used.

This summer I'd like to take the Deleon and Nautilus VLF DMC II-B into the Iron Mt. area and cut test plugs in the ground for target testings. Cutting deep 6 inch diameter plugs does the least damage to the natural soil composition.

Oh by the way, was the Cibola able to give a signal on everything the Vaquero could detect?

 

[rentasquid]

is because on another Tesoro site, if you post any comment that could be thought of as negative, it is immediately attacked or deleted. So, those people that have used Tesoro, but arent afraid to try something else too, tend to post here. I myself only use Tesoro, and I like the detectors quite a bit. But I dont think that it is bad to have some healthy input as to what experiences other people have. And, to tell you the truth, I dont really remember that many people bashing the DeLeon, before you mentioned that they were!?! Maybe you can give me some examples? I dont intend to come across as a jerk with this post, but I get tired of people saying that this forum is full of Tesoro haters. If they hated Tesoro so much, why do you suspect that everyone on this forum uses one, or has used one in the not so distant past?

J.

 

[zeb]

rentasquid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I
> dont really remember that many people bashing the
> DeLeon, before you mentioned that they were!?!
> Maybe you can give me some examples? I dont
> intend to come across as a jerk with this post,
> but I get tired of people saying that this forum
> is full of Tesoro haters. If they hated Tesoro so
> much, why do you suspect that everyone on this
> forum uses one, or has used one in the not so
> distant past?
>
> J.

Okay, tired, try reading my threads below "The Forgotten DeLeon" pay close attention to Monte's comments.

Now, I don't mind constructive criticisms. But, just imagine you just spent $500 of hard earn money on a machine and then you come to this site reading someone who's being "brutally honest" about your detector!

Actually, I'm probably more a Whites or Nautilus person. I think Nautilus may well be the best relic hunter in the world but I could be wrong.

So, to whomever, go ahead and be critical about Tesoro but don't mess with Nautilus!

 

[rentasquid]

I suppose its a matter of symantics, but I just dont remember anyone saying much bad about the DeLeon, before Monte responded to your message about how neglected the DeLeon is/was as a detector. Monte may have said some pointed remarks about the DeLeon's abilities in response to your comments, but what he said about it in comparision to other detectors on the market is true! Especially when you consider the area that we hunt, the DeLeon/Cortes detectors do not work well! Listen, I want people to buy Tesoro as much or more than anyone, so I guess that we will just have to agree to disagree on this particular issue. Have a good one Zeb.

J.