Spectra V3 Microprocessor Sales to US Blocked by ITC Order?

[Erik in NJ]

I was very impressed by White's transparency on their choice of microprocessors and much more, so much so that I have a V3 on order! This same technical document states that they are using the Freescale ARM-9 with built-in DSP. As a professional software developer I am quite interested in reading up on the capabilities of this chip and so I called Freescale today to try to obtain some documentation as I couldn't seem to find any on their website or on the internet...links to the documentation that I did find no longer work.

I was surprised to hear from the rep at Freescale that answered the phone that because of patent issues the International Trade Commission has blocked the sale of these chips to the US. I would imagine, if what I heard from Freescale was true, that this does not bode well for White's and the V3 in that there's the possibility that they may have to move to another microprocessor. The rep told me to search for "ITC order" on their site, but I have not bothered to drill down deeper yet.

I hope someone from White's will weigh in here and add some color to this. I will still be buying my V3 by the way because I think they made many innovative design decisions and as an engineer and software developer I am impressed and want to try this machine even though I have a brand new E-Trac backed up by an Explorer SE and two Explorer XSs at home.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Because of an order from the United States International Trade Commission (ITC), certain BGA-packaged products currently are not available from Freescale Semiconductor for sale or import into the United States until 24 September 2010. The ITC order does not prevent Freescale from marketing or selling affected products outside of the U.S.

Freescale apologizes for any inconvenience this may cause you as we address the requirements of the order.
For more information about affected products and alternate solutions for your design needs, please contact your Freescale sales representative.

Background on the ITC Order
On 20 May 2009, the ITC issued a ruling indicating six companies, including Freescale, infringed two U.S. patents relating to chip packaging technology. The Commission

 

[magicpsn]

That must be why they had to switch microprocessors...hence the 1.2 firmware revision! 1.1 and 1.3 had to do with sound/phasing/headphone issues and the 1.2 for "internal microprocessor change". I have to hand it to Whites for taking care of the issue quickly!!!

 

[Erik in NJ]

Where do you see "internal microprocessor change"?

ak_1234, their lead developer, states in two separate posts that 1.2 has to do with supporting memory chips from a different manufacturer. The White's document that was just released states that there is no memory on-board the microprocessor.

v1.2 was to put in the necessary software for the change in our memory chips (nothing other than a different manufacturer)

There was a needed change when we ended up changing to different memory chips (the same, but different for programming. Works for either chip).

My post has gotten a lot of reads, but only one reply (yours) - I'm surprised that no one seems to care about a potential major suppy chain issue unless White's has stockpiled as many of these processors as they'll need for the next few years or US distributors have them.

 

[CROCK of COINS]

>>I'm surprised that no one seems to care about a potential major suppy chain issue<<

;-) I have mine! No need to worry :-| for 20 years...I hope LOL

Jerry

 

[robertk]

I'm surprised that no one seems to care about a potential major suppy chain issue unless White's has stockpiled as many of these processors as they'll need for the next few years or US distributors have them.

I'm not even sure they're affected. The order was very specific as to the type of processor packaging which was affected:

The order from the ITC specifically affects certain Freescale BGA-packaged products (except flip chip, package-in-package, or tape based products) having a solder ball pitch of less than 1.27 mm, at least 36 solder balls (at least one of which is located under the die), and a die attach modulus of less than 3.5GPa.

I don't know if the processor used in the V3 uses an affected packaging type, whether it's one of the excepted types, or some other packaging entirely. And even if it is one of the affected types, there's nothing stopping them using the same chip in a different packaging. That might require changes to the circuit board, but everything else (software, etc) would still be the same. It is also possible that Freescale could win or resolve the patent dispute and the issue would just go away. It's also possible that White's already has enough of the processors on hand to carry them through for a year (until September 24, 2010, when the order expires).

 

[Erik in NJ]

I don't think that the ARM9 processor comes in any other type of package than the one that is affected. Well I was just impressed by the transparency on White's part with their technical document - do don't see that from Minelab - no one even knows what processor they are using as far as I know. I have my V3 on order, but I just thought White's team would address this question, but so far they have remained quiet on the issue.

 

[Larry (IL)]

I will wait to hear from White's before jumping to conclusions. Magic could probably back me up that things are not always as they seem. .....

 

[CROCK of COINS]

LOL...They will wake up in an hour or two. It s only 6:20 AM here ;-)

Jerry

 

[magic]

I agree Larry, things are not always as they seem! At least in my world. I dont know anything about this topic but I am following it as well.

 

[CROCK of COINS]

From: http://www.eetimes.eu/semi/218400065

>>The ITC's order actually went into effect May 20. However, it is under a standard 60-day Presidential review until July 20, and affected companies can post a bond allowing them to import infringing devices during that period<<

I know nothing :-(

Jerry

 

[Erik in NJ]

Hi Larry,

My primary concern is that there is the possibility that they may have to move to another processor, and if they have to do that, it's probably going to be a better and faster chip than the Freescale ARM9. As an aside I'm curious why they didn't choose one of the Intel RISC processors - especially since they're touting "Made in the USA", but this is really somewhat outside of my domain and I'm not up on the capabilities of the various manufacturers' RISC processors.

Magic could probably back me up that things are not always as they seem.

Have you been reading Alice in Wonderland again?

 

[Larry (IL)]

I sent Carl a PM asking for some input from White's, (If he can).

That's a good book Eric.

 

[jbow]

Computer guys are constantly tweaking their computers. I wonder what the possibilities are for swapping the chip for a faster one. Could someone do it? Would it improve performance? Not that I am in any way unhappy with the performance of my Spectra, I think it is awesome but as these type detectors become more and a "Computer" they should bcome more and more user upgradable. I wonder if you can overclock these chips without possible damage from heat. Then again, if you can swap for a much faster chip, you could underclock it and have greater speed with less heat. Then again, I don't know if these type chips are the same as in a computer.

Hmmmm....


J

 

[Erik in NJ]

Jule,

The ability to replace a processor in a metal detector would be very cool, though I doubt we'll see that for a while. I'm not really up on RISC processors so I'm not sure how well established the lineages are or if they keep coming out with faster and faster clock speeds. Maybe we'll get lucky and White's engineers will weigh in on this as it would be amazing to swap out the processor every year or so for a faster one.

 

[robertk]

Why would you want to overclock your metal detector? Trying to get up to that 96" per second swing speed?

 

[Erik in NJ]

No, not a faster swing speed, but the DSP algorithms eat up a lot of horsepower and we're just scratching the surface of what can be done - more speed = the ability to add more advanced algos. Even on the Explorer - the cursor in SmartFind is really not as snappy as it should be - I'd imagine a much faster processor would rectify that.

 

[Carl-NC]

Not quite sure why anyone outside of White's would be concerned about something like this, but... there is no concern. We are well-stocked for the long haul, even with better-than-expected sales.

- Carl

 

[robertk]

We are well-stocked for the long haul, even with better-than-expected sales.

That is good news! Twice!

 

[Erik in NJ]

My only concern was that if White's were forced to change processors, if I buy a V3 now, I would want to ensure that my unit were upgraded to the standard processor later. I guess I was also naturally curious whether this would have an immediate impact on production, but I think you answered that question. Thank you for the clarity.