SEF 15x12 First Hunt! She's A KEEPER!

[Tony]

CH,

I now firmly believe that so many different variables with (similar) equipment and (different) environment must give totally different results to different people.
When all of these factors, both unknown and known come together then sometimes it all makes sense !!!

What is important is knowing what really is the optimum setup for the individual for their location.

I think this is something you have definitely done for your area and equipment with the end result of everything "tweaked" as best as possible.

Tony.

Tony, I've tried setting the ground tracking for AM mode in the same way you do (pumping coil, then throwing it in fixed) just in case PP would use the ground setting in some rough way (though the manual says ground balance is disabled in PP), but still that seems to make no difference. Even setting the ground balance a bit hot and then throwing it into Fixed seems to have no effect on PP's depth. However, I will still play with doing that to confirm all this. I need to anyway because I'm still testing AM Fixed (set on the hot side) to see if it can match or beat discrimination. So far no dice, though.

 

[Critterhunter]

Agreed, all I can say is there are too many people offering different opinions on what is deepest. In my tests (at least for the GT and my very limited experimenting with a friend's Excalibur 800) PP is not nearly as deep as discriminate, but I have to believe that if others were seeing what I am then there would be no debate. For me discriminate is much deeper, but I'm still going to toy with PP and All Metal Fixed to firm things up for me in my areas.

Crazyman, the 12x10 from what I've dug up on the web is deeper than the 10" Tornado and much better in other respects as well (separation, solid target hits, stability, and so on), but that's not to say the 10" isn't a great coil in those respects either. Same deal in the Etrac/Explorum forums- people think the Pro Coil 11" is an awesome coil but that the 12x10 is just a bit better in many respects, including the above and even unmasking shallow coins that are on edge or masked by trash that somehow the Pro Coil missed. On the other hand, I'd say most say the 15x12 is just as good as the 12x10 in all those respects but also gets even deeper on coin sized targets. The only depth advantage the 12x10 has on depth that I've found ANYWHERE is on a cut quarter penny, which by the looks of it is roughly half the size of an American half dime. I'd expect any small coil to get best depth on something that tiny. It also appears the 15x12 in the FBS version is a bit heavier than the BBS version. I don't find mine to be heavy at all, and I'm telling you the size will not seem as big as you thought when you hold it in your hand and after a few hunts with it you'll wonder how you hunted with anything smaller all these years. My 10" now looks like a tiny 8" to me. Kind'a wierd how impressions change on things when you've been exposed to something over a little time. Since I would guess you the stock 10" with your GT then PLEASE get the 15x12. You WILL be let down by the 12x10 in relation to the 10" in size comparison. The 15x12 laid over the 10" only looks slightly bigger, though the size (measured it) is correct, unlike TVs.

Also, since I know you hunt some pretty minerilized ground....You'll be shocked how well this coil smoothes out the detector and allows for higher sensitivity settings over even smaller coils. I think this is due to the tighter (though deeper) width of the DD detection line. It's seeing even less ground than say a 10" coil which I think has a wider detection line width than this thing. Other factors can be involved too, such as shielding (RF noise), winding alignment, and so on. All I know is she's smooth as butter, even more so than any coil that I've used on any machine over the years. Audio and target ID also seems improved over the stock coil, which I though was great to begin with.

 

[Critterhunter]

Crazyman, also one thing I never counted on was coverage helping me. I always read posts on any larger coil where people said they wanted it for the coverage. I never really cared about that myself. However, after using a larger coil I can say it's a big plus. I'm willing to bet at least a few of the old coins I've found (in both large and small open areas) may not have just been due to the unique abilities of this coil, but also due to the fact that it "caught" them in it's "net" where as I might have just missed them using something smaller. I think (from memory) that my friend using his 6000 Pro XL might have walked right by the seated quarter. Now, even if he did swing over it I'm not sure he would have heard it, not so much because of depth but because this coin was standing on end. That's one of the few targets I didn't have him swing over before I dug it because he was already too far down the trail to bother.

 

[Critterhunter]

Today's hunt makes it 12 silvers for this great coil. I was hunting an old picnic grove when I came across multiple good coin signals that were about 3 to 4" deep. As I've been doing I calibrate the meter to 181 on a clad dime and then bring it down just enough to be 180. I feel that silver dimes, clad or silver quarters, or any other larger silver coins or even large cents will then read 181 at least here and there. Thanks to the outstanding separation of this coil I noticed two of these coin signals were bouncing up to 181 while the others were staying at 176 to 179 for the most part. Turned out I had 4 or 5 wheats and two mercs, a 1930 and a 1942 in the hole, all fairly close to each other. I bet a concentric or even most other double D coils (at least those on lessor detectors) might have been seeing these coins as pennies, or at least averaging the entire signal somewhere around clad dime.

Also, I had hit another picnic area prior to this that is pounded hard all the time because of the rumors of great coins coming out of there. While I didn't pull anything old in the short 30 minute hunt I did there, I did pop a clad quarter at about 4 to 5" deep that was in some heavy soil containing a lot of little rocks and pebbles. As a lot of people know, soil containing a lot of little rocks can be hard for some detectors to see through because of the mineralization and disruption of the eddy currents that the rocks can cause, even if they aren't what most would call "hot rocks". The quarter gave me a perfect signal and at that depth I'm sure it's been passed over for the last twenty years or so by many detectors. No way people wouldn't have hunted this spot hard since it's right in a prime worn foot path in the middle of this park and borders a nice little creek.

The spot where I got the two mercs only hunted about an hour or so as I'm saving it for a hunting friend and me to go back to on a weekend and hunt together. It's sad to say but I'm getting a little spoiled to where I'd rather be hunting where I knew for sure older coins than even mercs have come from in the past. I'm that confident this coil is going to unmask coins in junk or on edge that aren't even deep, and also get some real deep ones that other machines can't simply find as well.

 

[Critterhunter]

Was out over the weekend again with this coil and once again struck silver. This time a religious medal about the size of a nickle, but very thick with some decent weight to it.

Also, I'm continually impressed with the separation of this coil. I came across a "176" signal about 4 to 5" deep that I wasn't going to dig because I was being picky, but as is the norm for me I like to walk my coil just past such a target from every direction for two reasons. One, if I'm sick of digging penny signals I'll look for any that are right next to trash or are very deep. Reason being if they are say masked by trash then they might be something good that people have missed over the years, and also the same reason if they are real deep and thus something older than your average penny. The other reason why I'll walk the coil around a target that I don't plan to dig is to see if any other targets are right with it. If I get a "180" or "181" signal at the edges of the "penny" signal then there is a good chance that this is a multiple coin spill and that silver might be mixed in with it. Even if you don't see a 180 or 181 signal with the multiple targets there is a chance the silver is being averaged down a bit by pennies or nickles that are also present.

Anyway, wasn't going to dig that 176 signal until I also got a very smooth 180 signal right with it that I could only see by walking the coil slowly and wiggling fast as I've explained more in detail in the S-5 coil review thread. So, dig down exactly where the 176 signal was first to get that out of the way and it was two crusty old keys on a rotted key chain. Stick the ProPointer into the hole since I knew the 180 signal should be right with it and sure enough out pops a wheat that was at the very most 2 to 3" away from where the keys were and slightly deeper. I've beat this point to death but I'm going to say it again- I am very impressed with how well this coil separates targets. It's detection line seems much thinner/sharper than even smaller DD coils.

On another target signal I got a really smooth 136 signal from any direction at maybe 3 to 4" deep. This is important to note for any coil and the Sovereign because like many say this machine makes an excellent gold ring detector for three reasons- It's expanded "ring zone" VDI scale which allows you to split hairs on tabs versus rings by numbers, It's VDI being very stable and so one should expect a solid ID lock that doesn't change based on direction of sweeping over a target (Unlike trash which tends to not be uniform in shape and so will keep changing numbers based on direction of sweep), and also that good targets that are uniform in shape (round like a ring) should give a nice smooth audio to them that doesn't "warble" or sound harsh, tinny, bangy, and so on. It should sound smooth/warm/round/soft and lock on with it's ID, or at least only change by a digit or at max two here and there (which is not the norm- most rings should lock on to one or maybe two #s).

Now, I'm not talking at the fringes of depth here where any good target might get iffy on a machine, but for the most part a gold ring or other good item uniform in shape that isn't down to China in depth should be good quality in tone and ID. You'll just KNOW that the target has to be something good because it sounds so much better and has a very stable ID.

So, I even remarked to a friend that this one should be something good being a nice smooth/soft 136 signal from any direction. You may forgot over time about just how much better these targets sound compared to any other trash but you'll *know* when you hear one how much better they are. Well, it wasn't anything great, just one of those brass or copper backings for an earring or a pendant. But, it did prove the above things and also showed just how hard and well this coil hits on even tiny targets.

If you are ring hunting parks and are getting sick to death of digging trash then you need to do some air testing on some gold rings versus trash items. You'll quickly hear the difference, even if the VDI is the same for both. I'm fairly good at hearing the harsh/tinny nature of pull tabs but I mostly rely on my notch system (see "Splitting Hairs On Rings" thread) for avoiding those, though I haven't really put that system to the test yet and have hardly hunted with it. Mostly been after old coins for the last few months, but today I'm going out with my S-5 coil and will hunt a heavy trash park area and run that notch. I plan to both old coin hunt and ring hunt around the picnic tables where it's a sea of trash. Still, what to you do with the other numbers that fall outside 152 to 165 (the most common round/square tab VDI range where 84% of them fall based on my testing)? Use your ears and the VDI according to the above criteria and you can avoid the vast majority of trash. Sure, dig everything is still the safest bet but when you are just to worn down and want to increase your odds then look for those smooth/stable targets with a good solid VDI. There is a reason why many feel the Sovereign is the best gold ring detector on the market.

 

[Critterhunter]

The other day I hit a trashy park and dug a Rosie and a wheat in the same hole at about 3" deep and with good audio/id. That brings my total silver coins found with this coil up to 13. I still have my concerns about it's depth. Not that I don't think it's going deep, just that it hasn't found me any deep coins yet and until I see that happen in the field I'll have my doubts. So far the 10" has got me coins much deeper, at like 9 to almost 11" or so. See the test garden thread for more info on this coil and my concerns...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1214791

Also dug a tiny shoe eyelet at 7 1/2" that was very loud and with a good locking ID. If it gets that thing that deep then I don't see why a silver coin couldn't be 10 or 11" deep or more with no problem to ID and hear it, but I need to see that happen. I'm thinking I might be costing myself depth by maxing out sensitivity.

Also, I always hunt with the volume all the way down since I have no volume control on my headphones. I have played with turning the volume all the way up on deep targets just to see what the difference was and WOW I can't believe how much louder a deep coin (air testing) sounds at full volume, though I have no trouble hearing it at the very fringe of detecting with perfect tone (and also getting a good ID). It's soft, but still pleny loud enough for me to notice and hear easily. But, like I said at full volume it sure is loud, like a coin at 6" sounds with the volume all the way down, but I'm talking at double that in air testing depth. It's wierd but I think (?) that the audio on surface targets isn't really getting louder with the volume all the way up, though? I really didn't play with that much so maybe I'm wrong? Need to check that out further. I also have an inline volume control so I could crank up the GT volume and then bring it just low enough via the inline. My main concern is having to learn the depth of targets by sound all over again by maxing it out on the GT. It just seems in my short testing that with the volume all the way down the GT gives me much more "scale" in terms of the depth of the target based on it's audio response, where as with the volume all the way up everything seems about the same, or at least with less difference in volume between targets. Anybody else notice this?

 

[Critterhunter]

Sorry for this re-post from the other thread but I want to try to keep all the SEF info in one place so down the road anybody wanting to read up on it isn't looking all over...

While I haven't used my 15x12 SEF on the beach much yet, Kered would probably tell you that it's the deepest coil he's used for beach hunting I think, and he's owned a few WOT coils. He also likes it for a few other reasons like small target sensitivity. I'm loving mine, and I have dug some really deep tiny targets with it, but I'm still waiting for it to prove to me that it will get very deep on coins or rings, which I think I've figured out why it hasn't yet (due to me setting sensitivity way too high and blinded out targets). That's going to be true for any coil, though.

What I am hoping NOT to find is that the 15x12 is just taking in too much ground signal and so the effective signal to noise ratio cancels out any depth advantage, maybe even getting less depth than the stock 10" coil. Meaning, the 10" is seeing less ground and so it can handle the sensitivity being set much higher without blinding the machine to targets due to the ground signal. If that's the case then I might step down to the 12x10 coil and that might get deeper than the 10" because it isn't as big as the 15x12. On the other hand, I've read and researched enough about the 15x12 to know that the majority say it is deeper than the 10 or 12x10 on coin sized targets, but again if I don't see that for myself in the field then I'll continue to have my doubts. It might very well be that in my area the moderate to high mineral content eliminates any depth advantage of a larger coil than say the 10" because it's seeing more ground than the GT can handle processing. Some in very bad soils will get more depth with a smaller coil like say an 8" than they would with say a 10", and I'm really hoping that isn't going to be the case for me. Either way, at least at some of my sites the mineral content is very low and so it should still provide extra depth at locations like that. When hunting something worse then I'll step down to the 10" for best depth, and if it's really bad and contains a lot of iron and hot rocks then I'll drop down to the S-5.

 

[goodmore]

I will sell my 15x12 for 549.50

 

[Critterhunter]

That price HAS to be a mistake. Heck, you could buy a new machine for that. Then again gold fever causes people to do some pretty wild things. Sure this wasn't say an SEF for one of the high end Minelab gold detectors? I could see that...

 

[Critterhunter]

Headed out to a pounded old park today for an hour or so. No silver, but I did manage a wheat penny only about 2 or 3" deep that would only give a good coin signal in a very specific spot from any direction. Otherwise it would null or sound warbly. Sure enough, found three small blobs of iron about half the size of a pea also in the same hole, which were masking the coin unless you got right over it. Once again impressed with the ability of this coil to separate targets as well as unmask coins mixed with trash thanks to it's unique hybrid magnetic field.

 

[Critterhunter]

Headed out the other day and managed a 1936 buffalo. Other than that my silver streak has been dry the last few hunts. The GT is sure hot on nickles. So long as I get a 139 to 148 signal (146 seems to be most common) and a locking ID and good audio I pretty much know it's going to be a nickle. It seems about 141 to 146 is the more common number range for them. My nickle count has gone up more with this machine than any other I've owned. Shouldn't be long before I pop my first sheild. I've already dug a few Vs and Buffs with it, not to mention a silver war nickle. I figure so long as I keep popping the nickles when coin hunting even if I'm not really hunting rings on that day a few gold ones should find their way into my pocket.

 

[jbow]

The 12x15 really scares me because of the size and weight... and my age and backpain. You are right though, it is infectious. I really like the 10" Tornado, it is hard to beat but I don't doubt that one of the SEFs might well be better. Personally I don't like to use the sovereign in the woods. I like it best at places like yards and parks where I can skim the coil along the ground to help relieve the weight... then it is absolutely no problem, almost a one finger thing. I guess I should chestmount it more, I always chestmount it at the beach.

Count me interested too!

J

 

[jbow]

I got 8x6s for both the V3 and the ET... I am going to give the V3 about 6 more months and if I don't become more comfortable with it... it will go. I LOVE the ET, it is going nowhere. I have a 10x12 for the ET on order but you know... I think I am going to cancel that and try this.

J

 

[jbow]

I don't think you'll have a problem from the 12x15 seeing too much ground on the beach or anywhere for that matter. You should be able to adjust swing speed and sensitivity to compensate for any problem like that. The larger coil is going to give you more depth and if the SEF gets better seperation you will be in "high cotton" in any case.

I am really surprised that you haven't jumped on this yet.... Nexus Ultima

 

[Critterhunter]

Dug I think my 14th silver with this coil the other day...1936 Merc. This was at another spot I've gridded with the Explorer. Found two large stones above it in the hole and a small rust stain on both sides of the coin, yet it gave a perfect signal from any direction and was about 5" deep. 1 O'Clock setting for sensitivity doing the dime test was what I was using.

Since then I've thrown the 10" coil back on after I removed the cover and protected the bottom of the coil with 3 or 4 coats of spray on bed liner. The SEF is getting this treatment next. With the 10" back on and no coil cover my custom light weight GT now feels lighter than my friend's 6000 Pro XL. I must say the 10" feels like a 6 or 8" coil to me now after having the 15x12 on for so long. I'm going to do some depth tests with it and the SEF on my coin garden as well as some air tests so I can settle these doubts about which is deeper for myself once and for all. If by some huge miracle the 10" turns out to be deeper due to the amount of soil the SEF is seeing then I'll also be picking up the 12x10 to try. I love the 15x12 and the coverage/seperation/pinpointing is killer, but I'll limit it's use to when I need coverage and keep the 10" or 12x10 on for best depth if it comes to that. I don't like to compromise so the best depth coil will be my everyday coil regardless of which that turns out to be. Still think the 15x12 has to be deeper. Just need to prove that to myself with tests or actual coins in the field now that I've figured out the sensitivity thing was blinding me to targets.

 

[Critterhunter]

The 12x15 really scares me because of the size and weight... and my age and backpain. You are right though, it is infectious. I really like the 10" Tornado, it is hard to beat but I don't doubt that one of the SEFs might well be better. Personally I don't like to use the sovereign in the woods. I like it best at places like yards and parks where I can skim the coil along the ground to help relieve the weight... then it is absolutely no problem, almost a one finger thing. I guess I should chestmount it more, I always chestmount it at the beach.

Count me interested too!

J

Weight is no longer an issue with my lightweight GT, even with the 15x12 on. Really this coil is not as big nor as heavy as I thought by the pics and reading messages. Don't let it scare you. The WOT and even the old BBS 10" or much heavier. Once I remove the coil cover and spray on bed liner the 15x12 will weight exactly what the 10" Tornado does with it's coil cover still on. I also find the SEF easier to skim over the forest floor than the 10".

 

[Critterhunter]

I got 8x6s for both the V3 and the ET... I am going to give the V3 about 6 more months and if I don't become more comfortable with it... it will go. I LOVE the ET, it is going nowhere. I have a 10x12 for the ET on order but you know... I think I am going to cancel that and try this.

J

You've got a list of the top machines on the market you own there in terms of depth and performance. Only thing that doesn't belong is that V3, so I'd get rid of it.

 

[Critterhunter]

I don't think you'll have a problem from the 12x15 seeing too much ground on the beach or anywhere for that matter. You should be able to adjust swing speed and sensitivity to compensate for any problem like that. The larger coil is going to give you more depth and if the SEF gets better seperation you will be in "high cotton" in any case.

I am really surprised that you haven't jumped on this yet.... Nexus Ultima

It isn't that the 15x12 won't run stable at high sensitivity levels. In fact, I think I can run it at a higher level than the 10" at some sites. But, I think there is a *chance* that it's just seeing too much ground and might be causing the Sovereign to miss the coin mixed in with the ground matrix when processing. I have no evidence to back that up, or evidence to suggest it isn't deeper than the 10". What I have is a lack of evidence to show that it IS deeper. Like I said, I dug a small sinker that banged loud and clear with locking ID at 11" so far with the SEF. Also have dug tiny little things the size of shoe lace eyelets at close to that depth. If I'm finding small stuff deep then I should be popping coins well into the teens, but so far my deepest coin has been I think 9" or so, where as I've dug deeper ones with the 10" so far than that.

 

[Critterhunter]

One quick thing about the 10"...I use the top of the coil on the SEF at the base of the V to find targets. With the 10" the front of the coil seems too hot, but I find that if I use the tail of the 10" coil in the same manner as I use the SEF then it works pretty good. Not quite as precise as the SEF but better than trying to pinpoint with the center of the coil for me.

 

[Critterhunter]

Been using the Tornado 10" for the last week or so but miss the heck out of my 15x12 for it's coverage. The 10" just feels so small to me now and it really bothers me for coverage. The 10" had been painted with spray on bed liner and that is holding up great. Looks just like the bottom of a coil and isn't even getting scratched or dinged up despite abuse. The 15x12 has been waiting for it's spray on bed liner and so that's why I haven't been going back to it yet. Today I finished taping it up with painter's tape and put the first coat on it. Another 2 or 3 coats about 2 hours apart today and then I'll let the SEF cure for a good day in the sun before I can strap it back on.

While I was hunting with the 10" this weekend I hit a public spot that is producing wheats like crazy. While I'm sure it has been hunted before, the amount of deep wheats coming out of this location (6 to 8" deep) tells me that not only has somebody not done a good job of hunting it (sometimes deep silvers can read like wheats on any machine), but this spot is so obvious that I think most people have overlooked it. It's not a park but it is public property and I just really think by the looks of the building most people would think there wasn't much to find there, but I know this place goes back to the 1800's. After only about an hour and a half between a friend and I we probably dug close to 15 REAL easy wheats. In fact, I got so sick of digging them after a long day hunting elsewhere before trying this spot that I must have skipped over another 20 deep ones that I was pretty sure would be wheats. I'll dig those on another day. It's been a LONG time since I've found a public spot that produces wheats like this that weren't even super deep or masked by heavy trash. With them coming out this easy I'm sure there is going to be a lot of silver laying around. Nice rich black soil with some heavy clay spots where targets are more shallow than the black soil, so it's got it all. Got a good coin signal at about 7 or 8" that turned out to be a 1941 merc. That's my first silver coin with the 10", though I have dug one or two silver rings and a sterling antique thimble with the 10" thus far, along with an indian and a V. Also, the other day I dug what I thought was either a fishing lure spinner swivel or a cuff link. Wasn't sure which but it did have some fishing line on it, yet it looks like a cuff link. Thought it looked like either stainless or sterling and sure enough my loop tells me it's stamped sterling. I think years ago some fishing lures were made from silver but it kind'a looks like a few antique cuff links I've dug in function. It would work either way so I'm still not sure about it.

I'm so happy with the separation, stability, unmasking ability, and coverage of the 15x12 that I'm going to get a used 12x10. I'm still not sure (still have to do some tests) if the 15x12 is deeper than the 10". Like I said, I have dug some tiny real deep stuff and a fishing sinker at 11" with it on land that makes me think it will easily hit coins real deep but as of yet the 10" has got me a V and an indian deeper than any coil or machine I've ever used over the years. It may be that the 15x12 is seeing so much ground that the target gets washed away with the matrix, not really giving me increased depth, but that's only a suspicion that I want to either prove or disprove with more field use and testing in my garden. Either way, just like the 15x12 I've heard most say the 12x10 is deeper than the 10" and even the 11" Pro Coil for the Explorer/Etrac, and I'm so pleased with the 15x12 that I want to have and compare the 12x10 to it. It may be that the 12x10 *IN MY GROUND* (which averages moderate to heavy minerals) gives more depth on coin sized targets than the 15x12, but all that is pure speculation. In any respect even if the 12x10 isn't as deep as the 15x12 I just can't stand the feeling of no coverage that the 10" Tornado gives me anymore after using the 15x12, so I figure the 12x10 will give me more coverage and should also get a bit deeper than the 10" based on what I've read, not to mention it's better separation and unmasking ability.

I'm looking to trade off my Sunray S-5 5.5" coil for a 12x10 SEF for the Sovereign. If anybody wants to work out some kind of trade and/or cash deal then shoot me a PM.