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Rusty nails ID as coins.....

A

Anonymous

Guest
I have been using the Explorer II for several months. I initially had great results, pulling many new coins out of areas I had been over multiple times with my Sovereign. Now most of what I dig is rusted iron and it seems to ID as coin in the upper right of the smartscreen. I currently set my Iron mask at -14 and conductive tones. I don't have many problems with shallow targets but experience difficulty when the depth reaches six inches or deeper. The coil I am using right now is the 7.5".
I will be looking through the archives to see if there is any information on the subject but in the meantime would like to hear from anybody who might have a tip to share. Thanks in advance for any information.
-Neil Crowley
 
Neil,
Not much you can do about that. I still get fooled by deep rusty nails, especially square ones. It is almost impossible to discern them (IMO) from coins buried next to iron, and sometimes just plain deep coins in mineralized soil. In both cases the target icon can jump from extreme left to extreme right and anywhere in between along the top on any given sweep over the target. Sometimes you'll see that the icon falls a little from the top when it bounces to the right(silver/copper area) side, but I have had coins do this too.
In virgin areas or if you are trying to make time you can ignore some of the iffier signals, but in well hunted parks those are the ones that often turn out to be the best coins that the others have missed over the years.
I have a periscope probe that you poke in the ground to find the targets. It is a metal detector built into a 3/8 diameter probe that can easily discern ferrous targets from non-ferrous. Lets you check all the iffy signals without digging. Only drawback is that it is a spendy unit; 500+ clams.
Chris
 
I hunt pretty much the same as Neil with an IM setting at -14 and in conductive. All my sites are nail infested but I still don't dig them even running high man. sens. and using the stock coil.
Here is what I don't understand...
When you're hunting in iron using conductive nails will give a high false sound but will always give you a hint it's a nail. Usually that hint is a null being mixed in directly with the tone. You guys say it's the deep nails that are fooling you. Well how can you be fooled by a high false (as nails always are) when a deep coin does not give the high pitch which is comparable to a nail. So what I am saying is if it's a high pitch and not a true sound (nulling) it can not be a deep coin so why chase it?
In the last two months I Easily dug 1000+ targets but did not get surprised once buy a rusty nail fooling me at the bottom of the hole.
 
I am still having trouble with rusty nails. I rarely use the digital mode, but I will use it for a reference. I dig targets that would read about 25 to 30 on the conductive scale, but would be in the range of 27 or lower on the ferrous scale. I have dug quite a number of silver dimes in the 6 to 7 inch range that fall into this category. Sometimes I find one or more nails in the same hole. Sometimes I find no nails in the hole. Sometimes I find only nail(s) in the hole. How could a rusty nail have this low a ferrous reading? What explanation would you offer here?
Presently I do not dig targets that have a ferrous content greater than about 28 because I too feel that there is not much chance that there is something good down there. Of course, there could be a nail at 3" and a silver dime below it at 7". What are your thoughts about this?
What do you mean by the following?:
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">Usually that hint is a null being mixed in directly with the tone</span>
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">if it's a high pitch and not a true sound (nulling) it can not be a deep coin</span>
Thanks for your thoughts,
Glenn
 
Hey Glenn,
What I mean is, to me a coin in iron may have nulls on either side of the tone but a piece of iron will null during the tone or atleast fade a little in the middle. If a piece or iron sounds ok from one direction hit it from another way and it is sure to sound like crap.
The last part of what you have highlighted I'm saying that a very deep coin does not whistle like a 3" or 4" one therefore if you're getting the high pitch of iron maybe it's a coin maybe it's not (for those who have trouble) but if you don't hear that faint warble through the nulling and falsing it is not a *deep* good target.
When you chase these nails does the detector give a sound even once you take some dirt out? That's my second step at the really pounded sites when I'm getting desperate to dig something, anything.
The secret for me as far as I'm concerned is having lots of time using my gain at ten. It's even harder to explain than what I have said already, but when I'm at site with quite a bit of iron/nails my detector is quite noisey but what guages my ears is hearing the processor going off through what is just the normal target sounds. With the sound of the processor in conjunction with the tone it better helps me determine whether it's iron or not. Maybe my settings aren't the best for everyone but I have so many hours logged on them my explorer really is an extention of my arm. I hunt fields not parks but Imagine if over the past 3+ years you have no less than 50 parks that all had many targets to find (talking thousands upon thousands), you were able to use a shovel and not have to be real neat, and you dug every tone in each place until it was quiet. Also, each place had targets deeper than the detector could see so you were digging items at the explorers limit on a regular basis. Well, that's how if has been for me, only it's fields.
PS I know I would have not learned near as much if I continued to use my screen. Most times it's too covered in dirt to see it anyway. <img src="/metal/html/smile.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":)">
Hands on is so much easier to explain everything I'm trying to say but that's how it goes I guess.
 
but when I'm at site with quite a bit of iron/nails my detector is quite noisey but what guages my ears is hearing the processor going off through what is just the normal target sounds.<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">
Normal target sounds is likely a bad way to put it. More like hearing the processor click in through the noise, and listening to the sound that triggered it. </span>
 
Hey CC,
Also read your post in reply to Captain Kirk and am having a hard time visualizing(hearulizing?) what you are saying.
I almost always run ferrous/open screen except crown caps, sensitivity manual as high as can stand it and gain 8. Many of the sites I hunt any iron mask means constant null. I don't like the constant nulls and you can't hunt open screen in conductive. Perhaps need to try conductive again with some IM a bit more, see if I can hear what you are hearing. I've heard from others that in conductive nails will be higher pitched than coins.
I confess that still get fooled on occasion. Dug a half dollar yesterday that sounded much like iron falsing. Really suprised me to find that. There are times when I'm bored that I'll check out any iffy falsing signal just to see what I might be missing. About 90% of the time can guess correctly but get fooled just often enough to continue checking most signals with the probe.
Are you very confident that you are not leaving some coins mixed with iron behind?
chris
 
I am not CC but I do know what your struggling with... To ME an iron false has a screech/scratchness to the tone... it kinda sounds like the Explorer is 'struggling' to make the sound. Coin hits are very repeatable even when their deep where as iron it may make a sound 2 out of 3 sweeps. I've been trying to teach my hunting buddy to work in iron mask but he digs too many nails. I'll suggest to you what I've told him. Try crossing both ways (N/S E/W) to help initially. You will get to a point where you'll know a good hit before you switch directions. An iron false won't usually hit from both directions (N/S E/W). Once your confident that you know what an iron false sounds like you can start digging the one way coin hits. Once you master one way tones you will excel in all kinds of trash. I've dug some nice coins that would only hit from one direction but I knew purely from the tone that it was a good hit. I also keep my variability at 8 which is supposed to be the best when your in iron. I would also recommend trying to get away from looking at the LCD and go totally by sound. Only then do you really start to excel with the Explorer like you read in the forums.
-Bill
 
This is what I'm looking for. It's a lot of new information to assimilate but I printed it off so I can read it at my leisure and perhaps understand it better.
Thank you to all who responded.
-Neil Crowley
 
Well if you're having success and only digging the odd nail changing to conductive is quite a drastic change. I think how you swing is very inportant too. In clean ground I sweep maybe 2 feet but really get alot tighter when I'm in an area with fairly heavy iron. One of the most common mistakes someone can make with the Explorer hunting iron is gridding an area (even from two directions) and thinking you have it all. (keep in mind the main target I look for is small buttons which may be masked easier) Last week I was hunting a few sites that are all in the same field and my first swing over them I just did a nice slow grid one way digging every signal in the process. The next time I went over the same spots hitting them from many angles I dug just as many targets as I did the first day. The second day was sort of gridding too but what I do is only walk about 6 feet each way taking very short swings( only a few inches) and constantly change the direction of my path. My goal is to cover each little area of my grid every way possible before I move on. It usually takes me along time to hunt a place because when I'm done my little circle grid I reallly don't expect to find much or anything at all when I go back. In this field I dug 40+ of those very small bird shot BBs to give you an idea when I say digging all targets.
As for your question...
"Are you very confident that you are not leaving some coins mixed with iron behind?"
I used to wonder that myself so over the last year I started digging some of the iffys I thought may be fooling me. Not once do I recall it being a coin. (usually the sound is gone once I cut the plug, the X-1 tells me the rest) Even now when places are beat I do dig quite a few empty holes but I fully expect them to be. The odd time I do get surprised but it is never a coin, just a very small low sounding target that was deep and just breaking through my threshold.
PS I have 9 friends (not internet) that all hunt relics and old coins at the same type of places I hunt and every one of them runs conductive. That still doesn't prove anything but it must be working well for them to keep doing it.
 
And not coming with an attitude just what I believe.
I have used conductive sounds and no ID for basically the entire time I have used the explorer. Now that I know the tones/detector I have no problem running ferrous and it makes 100% sense to me. (I just don't prefer it) There are alot of guys on here that only use ferrous and I would bet not one of them could run high conductive sens. in a nail infested area and know what the detector was saying. (I mean feeling confident) I have always believed ferrous was easier to learn but still question if it is better, and of course that all depends on the person, site, targets etc.
 
Thats been my experience too, sometimes changing the angle of attack by just a couple of degrees can make the difference between getting a signal in trashy areas. Did some living room experinmenting with nails and coins and found that a nail laying on a coin will give a beautiful signal from one direction, and go to iron if you miss it by 5 degrees or less. I'm sure that is the reason that hunted out areas are never completely hunted out.
I use conductive very infrequently and it would be a tough switch. Not because of changing the sound but because you can't run open screen and I'm used to no nulling. Suppose I should just give it a try at some trashy area that I have pounded. At one time had User B set up for conductive sounds, may need to try that again.
Also believe that trying different coils is as important as hitting from different directions. I know you are not a WOT fan, but I am absolutely amazed what it can do in iron trash. It is very slow going and you need to overlap each stroke massively, but it seems to be able to get targets under iron that would be masked to the other coils.
I've also been trying to use the 5" more often, seems to behave a little differently than the bigger coils.
chris
 
I wouldn't say I'm not a WOT fan because I do think it's a good coil and I may even try it again. That said, I also didn't see a big improvement on depth and had to drop the sens a bit while using it. Should I ever try it again my plan would be to close the IM some and try to keep my sens. up to 26 or 27.
What amazes you about the WOT in iron is exactly the reason I do not ever use a smaller coil than the stock. All I need to hear is any part of a signal coming through the threshold and the 10.5" seems to power through the iron to get the deep stuff, as well as separate it well enough to see most of what's there. I find much less using a smaller coil around iron therefore I just don't do it anymore. Again, the short wiggle swing from many angles is what works best (for me). The conclusion I have made (may be dead wrong) why most on here like the WOT is because they are still somewhat dependent on the screen and the WOT even though not much deeper gives a better visual ID. People tend to say the same thing about the 8" in comparison to the stock, that it loses it's ability to ID at a certain depth but that is only the screen. From my experience the explorer IDs sound correctly at very very close to 100% of its depth. Now having said all that it sounds like the 8" would be as deep as the stock because I said I didn't think the WOT was much deeper than the stock. Well I don't think that is the case and likely has to do with a bigger coil seeing more, but I can't really say. To me the 10.5" is absolutely perfect.
Someday I will try the WOT again but would have to change my settings which I don't like to do. I have a friend who uses the stock almost all the time but on occasion takes out his WOT and is happy with the results. He runs a higher IM than I do and can likley keep his normal settings so maybe that is the difference.
 
If someone were to tell me the WOT was 1-2 inches deeper than the stock I could probably accept that. Anything more I would have to be there to see it. I am more sure of a difference between the smaller coils and the stock.
 
Bill,
Thanks for the input. I have very little trouble with deep coins that are not in the hole with a rusty nail. I have dug many silver coins that also have one or more nails in the hole. That target combination hits very near the upper left corner, but just a tad lower than the rusty nail alone (of course this depends upon the position of the coin relative to the nail). The tone of this combination is slightly lower than the rusty nail by itself. But, other iron targets (such a small piece of ferrous wire) hit in that same place. The main reason that I dig as many nails as I do is because I would rather dig a few nails than leave a silver behind.
Thanks again,
Glenn
 
I think it really depends on what kind of ground your detecting in how much deeper the WOT is than the stock. I dug an IH at around 12-13 inches but it was in 'clean' soil with nothing around it. I think the real advantage of the WOT is that it is very good on on-edge coins that are on the deeper side. I had a hit last year than my buddy checked with the stock coil and he could hit it. I dug it and by chance I dug the hole and happen to see the dime completely on-edge down a good number of inches (didn't measure).
-Bill
 
C.C.
You wrote:
<span style="background-color:#ffff00;">what guages my ears is hearing the processor going off through what is just the normal target sounds.</span>
I am not famiiar with the "processor sound". Can you elaborate?
Thanks,
Glenn
 
I will try the WOT again but with a different approach. I was very impressed with how sensitive it was for a big coil and that says something right there.
C.C.
 
Basically I have just become good at picking out subtle sounds in the racket I listen to with the settings I use. What I find very different on the Explorer is you can overpower the iron and the signals will break through if you know what to listen for. Other detectors really seem to have a masking problem when doing the same. Most of my posts are centered around looking for buttons in iron and things have been very good in that respect. Obviously coins and other relics are easier to find so being a button hunter has its advantages I guess.
 
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