Question about Silver Umax iron discrimination.

[tabdog]

Hay Tab-nabit.

I know what you mean about how nice the Cibola is and how quick it grows on you.

I'm wondering wich works better andfor what the 5.75' concentric coil or the 5.75" widescan

Oh, I got a Bounty Hunter Quick Draw II and a Garrett GTAx 500 which arn't bad detectors but you can see why I'm so happy with my new Cibola.

Now I got a real good machine.

I know there are nicer machines out there but on my budget I just found a keeper.

david

 

[tabdog]

Hay digitaltim.

I did try super tuning. I found that a combination of super tuning and lower tuning can get me through the trashy stuff.

I love the sencitivity of the Cibola and still being able to work in trash.

I must have read the instruction manual 5 times before the Cibola even arrived. I also read several reviews and read some forums. I didn't want to get stuck with another so so machine. I finally got something I can work with and feel good about it.

see ya later

david

 

[tab-nabit]

In most situations, the concentric for me in my area for most of my hunts is the way to go. I think the soil condition needs to be really bad where the widescan might have an edge. Otherwise I seem to do better with the concentric. The concentric pinpoints better too. If I chose to have only one, it would be the concentric. Then again, I have used concentric for years so I'm more used to them.

 

[tab-nabit]

It's a powerhouse of a little machine for the bucks. Kind of a fun one to use.

 

[tabdog]

thanks for the info. I don't run into many problems with soil conditions around here except when it gets really dry.

I have a fealing that the concentric coil would work well 4 me.

 

[digitaltim]

I know exactly how you feel..... That's an awesome machine you have there.

My cortes arrived.....I can see the TID (target ID) will be useful for ignoring some pulltabs, but for the most part the TID works as well as a BH's........its reading almost all my buttons in the foil to pulltab range.... I ran a musket ball under the coil and it reads as a pulltab.

It'll read zincs and Indian head pennies as zincs. it reads wheat cents as copper 1C. So right off the bat i know if I ignore zincs I could be ignoring indian head pennies. I don;t believe depth would help in that scenario, because most of the coins (old and clad) are at various depths...........usually right under the surface too.

I can see how the TID can help and there is other info available to help, but I might be happier just using the cibola, vaquero, or Tejon.

I guess I'll just have to take my own suggestion and dig based on where I'm hunting and not just on the TID

 

[tabdog]

TID's can be helpful, but for the most part they are over rated.

If a greeney, kind a like me, relies on the TID too much, it may cause frustration and a lot of people give up without learning what their detector is trying to tell them.

The experienced user quickly discovers the limitations of the TID and uses it accordingly.

 

[Monte]

n/t

 

[tabdog]

When I got back into MDing a short while back, I staked off a test garden, 6' x 12'. I cleaned everything out with my Bounty Hunter. Before I put any test targets out I upgraded to a Garrett middle of the line detector. I went over the test garden with the Garrett in the all metal mode and the sensitivity turned all the way up and didn't find any more targets. I proceeded to put out several test targets.

Two days ago I got my new Cibola and tried it out in my test garden. I could pick up all the targets in the garden but I was getting false signals all over the place. I was impressed but skeptical about the new Cibola.

The next day I took the Cibola out hunting and it showed me what it can do.

I went back to my test garden and started digging. I quickly discovered that their are several targets that are either too small or too deep for the other two detectors to pick up. Now I got a trashy test garden.

I should have got the Cibola first and then I wouldn't have this problem.

What do you think about that, huh?

 

[Pap]

when in doubt dig it out! I think that pertains to test gardens too!
Pap

 

[digitaltim]

That's exactly what I plan to do.......take the readings with a grain of salt........let them be helpful.

I'll give the detector a fair shot. I'm usually a dig everything (except iron) kind of guy anyways.

 

[Dano123]

I own a Tesoro Silver Sabre U-Max (purchased in the year: 2001). My silver sabre rejects a lot of iron targets. I recently purchased a used Whites MXT,and the MXT struggles in iron infested areas,where my Silver Sabre works awesome in trashy (pull-tabs,bottlecaps,cans,etc.) areas & iron infested areas! When I go to a iron or trashy area I put my discrimination at 7 or 8, and put the sensitivity at: 7 or 8. Try this on your Silver u-max.. I found with my silver sabre u-max,if I put the sensitivity up to high 9 or 10 (orange area,max boost) the detector chatters a lot. When you put the sensitivity at 7 or 8,you'll get a whole lot more coins. Hope this helps. Don't buy the cortes or de leon,my silver sabre rules!!

 

[Dano123]

Re: Tesoro Cibola: I own a Tesoro Silver Sabre U-max (purchased new in 2001.) It hits a lot of coins,but my depth is only up to about 5 inches on my 8 inch coil. Does the Cibola go deep? If so how deep?? i s the Cibola easy to use? How is pinpointing with the Cibola? Pinpointing with my silver sabre u-max is great,but I just don't have the depth.. Any advice for me?

 

[tabdog]

I don't know much about Tesoros. My first Tesoro is a Cibola that was delivered to my house 3 days ago.

If I give you some of my history Amby you can decide how good my advice may be. Hope this doesn't bore to tears.

When Technatics founded their company on the development of Motion Discrimination or "MD" about 28years ago they had one detector. It was the first with MD. Now all of the VLF detectors use it. Anyway that was my first detector. Unlike now days it didn't have a micro processor. It gave out a ton of information so fast it would make your head spin. It took me over a year to become moderately productive with it. I finally got proficient with it and did alright. I used it for about 3 years , then it broke, I got married and had kids.

I'm a retired surveyor and for the last 30 years I've searched for property corners using everything from magnets to the top of the line ferrous metal locaters or as we called them "pin finders".

About six weeks ago I got the MDing urge again real bad. Don't have a lot of income so I got a Bounty Hunter Quick Draw II. Its good at finding coins and has a TID, that's "Target ID". But it will only go down about 4". I wanted to upgrade so I got a Garrett GTAx 500 with a TID and bunch of other stuff. To my dismay the Garrett would only go maby one half inch or so deeper and was very unstable when trying to get depth. Both of these detectors have been taking a while to learn.

Then I got the Cibola and I think you read my reaction to it. If I had the money I would probably have got the Tejon. It sounds like the cat's meow.

Now how deep varies, I've got 3 quarters buried at 8". The Cibola can pick up 2 of them but not the other? I have a nickel buried at 8" the Cibola will pick up. I have a dime buried at 8'' . It will pick almost everything in my test garden so I'm impressed.

In actual hunting I've found stuff even deeper. It just depends on "I don't know what".

For some reason the Cibola was very easy for me to get the hang of. In an hour or so I was going to town with it. It's a simple hard working detector.

I don't know if this helps you but it gave me a chance to rattle off at the mouth some. Maby some of these more experienced guys could give better advice.

Happy hunting

David

 

[Monte]

First, I think George Payne was with Bounty Hunter about 28 years ago (1979) when Jack Gifford went to work for Bounty Hunter for a short time. I think George was still there, or he might have just left about that time. George designed the Red Baron with SPD (Synchronous Phase Discrimination) for Bounty Hunter in 1976 and that was the first production "motion discriminator" we had. Later, he teamed up with some others who had been at White's and they formed Teknetics. When Teknetics finally got off the ground and into production they offered a few models based on the fast-motion (4-filter) discriminate circuitry. I know a few people who "wore out" an early 8500 or 9000 Teknetics due to the excessive sweep requirement and

 

[tabdog]

You asked me about how well the pin pointing works on the Cibola.

I've had very few problems digging off center with the Cibola. When I do dig off center it's mostly because I didn't pay attention.

I dug an old fashion, thick pull tab at well over a foot deep. The no motion pin pointer was picking it up just fine. But on very small,deep objects the no motion pin pointer gets very week. Thick objects scream at you. Wide objects are far across like soda cans. You don't have to dig um up with a good pin pointer like the Cibola's. This information given by the pin pointer helps determine the physical size and the depth of the object, the thickness and even some more info on what it's made of. With a few quick sweeps in pin point mode you can determine where other metal objects are located around the target and how this may affect your sweep direction. Knowing a better direction to sweep the coil can help find targets that are close together or close to trash.

And that's Just how it should work. I love being able to own a detector that will do what it should do.

But as far as pin pointing goes, you don't need the pin pointer on the Cibola. When you sweep over a target in the motion mode and shorten your sweep to very short and slow it sounds off right on the target so it's already pin pointed. Then you can use the pin pointer to gather more information on the situation.

Love my new Cibola,

david

 

[tabdog]

Thanks for the information on Motion Desc. You know I was just repeating what Bill at Bill's Pets and Metal Detectors in Little Rock, AR told me all those years ago and I never had any reason to doubt him. Of coarse the way my memory is I could have miss remembered what he told me.

In Bounty Hunter and Garrett's defence, we were in a drought and the ground was hard packed until three days before I Got my Cibola. It started raining and I didn't go MDing until I got my Cibola and now I'm not as interested in using the other two metal detectors.

If I took the Bounty Hunter and the Garrett out with the moist ground we have now I would probably get better results.

The soil conditions around here are very good in most areas. The biggest problem, as I see it, that we have around here is dryness in the summer time. I believe that does effect the depth at which most detectors will go.

It is very interesting about how Motion Desc developed, but I was not able to find information about it til now. I did read some info on the engineers who developed it but I was never able to determine what dates were associated with different developments and so on.

 

[tabdog]

Hay Monte,
I have three quarters burried at 8" and I can detect 2 of them. I have 1 quarter burried at 5" that I cannot detect.
I have nickels at 6" and 7" I connot detect but I have one at 8" that I can detect.

Is that kind of inconsistancy sound normal? Ive checked to make sure that the coins were not turned on its side.

You was talking about people wearing out thoes old Tecnatics by swinging them so fast. Thats what happen to mine. I left in the atic of a house we lived in.

I wish I still had it just to say "that was my first detector and doesn't it look dorkey".

Your the first person I"ve taked to that knew anything about the first Technetics metal detectors.

Thanks for the post Monte

 

[Monte]

In Bounty Hunter and Garrett's defence, we were in a drought and the ground was hard packed until three days before I Got my Cibola. It started raining and I didn't go MDing until I got my Cibola and now I'm not as interested in using the other two metal detectors.... Yes, there can be some pronounced differences between very dry ground and very wet ground. Usually ground that is only wet to a portion of a target's depth might not be enough to make a difference, and sometimes can have a negative effect. Once a person realizes some of the weakness of some TID models, and the pleasure of working a good-performing lightweight detector it's tough to go back.

If I took the Bounty Hunter and the Garrett out with the moist ground we have now I would probably get better results.... Possibly. maybe better than they had done before, but I doubt that they would do as well as the Cibola.

The soil conditions around here are very good in most areas. The biggest problem, as I see it, that we have around here is dryness in the summer time. I believe that does effect the depth at which most detectors will go.... Yes, but in addition to the 'dryness/wetness' issue is the matter of how the turn-on-and-go models Ground Balance is set. I haven't checked a Cibola for that in a while, but I know the Garrett's have all had too negative a GB for many of the more mineralized sites I hunt. If you're in mellower ground they might do better.

It is very interesting about how Motion Desc developed, but I was not able to find information about it til now. I did read some info on the engineers who developed it but I was never able to determine what dates were associated with different developments and so on.... George Payne is the guy who made the first good advances in motion discrimination when with Bounty Hunter, and White's was licensed to use their concept until most manufactures started to have their own engineers work up new circuitry.

Those early SPD Red Barron's required a very deliberate whipping speed, and the early White's and Teknetic

 

[tabdog]

Thank you very much for taking time to respond to my post.

I got some good info out a that. I've been trying to figure out when I got my first MD. From what you told me I can now narrow it down to about 25 years ago. According to the dealer I got my Technatics from it was brand new and their first MD in production.

The info on test gardens is very helpful and helps to answer some of my misconceptions. I have found the test garden is not very useful but preparing the garden is a good way to learn things from your MD. When I put my targets out I didn't want to dig holes so on most, but not all, of them I drove a one and one half inch pipe into the ground and put the targets in the holes. A few of the targets I retrieved and replaced and disturbing the natural ground to different degrees. Under extreme dry conditions the disturbed ground may not have packed evenly. Also there is a ton of metal debris in my yard. after the rains and and getting my Cibola I'm getting signals in the test garden that weren't there before. I'm not going to clean it out again but I have dug up some small pieces on aluminum foil and rusty remnants of nails.

Thanks about the heads on ground balancing. I've not had any experience with GB. Didn't think I needed it. I'm beginning to understand how it could be helpful.

on a different note,

I lost my wife a few years ago and now I'm disabled, on a small retirement and still have two boys in high school. I've felt isolated and didn't have anything for me to but raise kids. Metal Detecting gives me a life back. I'm the old guy in the park with a MD. People want to come up and talk to me and I've met some nice people MDing.

I like what I'm doing more now and I want to thank you again for being so helpful.

david