Question 4 Critterhunter & Crazyman About The Sovereign

[jbow]

will ignore a lot of the small iron and hit on larger iron which is usually RR spikes, flat iron, horseshoes, or something good like a big ol' padlock or a gun. Personally I prefer the latter if I have to deal with iron. The E-TRAC is better than either except for sometimes at some sites that are infested with small iron, the Tejon and some other Tesoros can make finds easily where other machines can confuse the heck out of me. I am interested in trying the AT and possibly the G2 at one of these sites.. I have two site that fill that bill very well.

I dig way too many cut square nails, crowncaps, bottlecaps, washers, and other jusk with the Sovereign... now, that isn't to say that the Sovereign does not tell me it is junk... it is that it doesn't convince me. If I get a one way good signal and number.. I simply cannot stand it and will fill my pouch with canslaw and cut square nails... I just can't stand it. The E-TRAC will tell me that I have a masked goodie with a one way hit... and it will usually actually be what the CO number says it is, even with the one way hit... the ET is amazing at unmasking good targets, and giving a good TID, at "hunted out" sites.

There is more than one reason to have a stable of detectors... IMO.

Julien

 

[jbow]

On this subject... sniffing out a good iron masked target, the E-TRAC is head and shoulders above the Sovereign. It will do it faster, almost effortlessly, and will also give a correct ID once you learn the machine. The GT may get some of them, but in my experience, not nearly as many masked targets as easily as the ET... and, like I mentioned. The ET will not only quickly unmask an iron masked target (especially in FTT and I totally adamantly disagree with those who say to use no disc with the ET)... it will ID the target... i've seen it too many times, moving quickly in FTT... BAM.. there is that high tone from one direction, only that one direction... with a steady TID number. FAST recovery, good depth... target recovered where it should not be. I dug two chewed carbine bullets in Kingston park one day last year, right across from the site of the first Confederate hospital, the park where the RR depot once was, where Sherman had his HQ after the fall of Atlanta and befor the "march to the sea"... the park that has been hunted regularly since detectors came out... they should not have been there... about 7" down but to the E-TRAC they were obvious... impossible to ignore... CO number just like a minnie laying on the ground.. from one direction. The FE number skewed by the iron but not WAY off, still off a bit... but the CO number holding steady is RELIABLE... that is the strength of the ET and it results from Minelab engineers moving most good targets to the 12 FE line and STRIAGHTENING the CO line so that it does not jump around... the CO jumps but it jumps straight on it's axis so that the number does not change... where the Explorer jumped upper left to lower right. One could learn to read that and make an educated guess and it would work well with no disc... the ET just holds that CO number... locks in on it like a bulldog... but you HAVE to use a little disc with the ET. The ET software is written to signal and give the TID of a target that is not nulled or discriminated out.. and not signal on a target that is discriminated out... that is why it is important, with the ET, to use a little disc like the Relic pattern or my favorite Jason's relic pattern... then the machine will see the iron and the bullet... it will 'know" that the iron is discriminated out and not signal it. It will "know" that the bullet is accepted and it will signal it and correctly ID is with the CO number (though the FE number may be more or less skewed by the iron). Also IIRC, on the E-TRAC using the settings Fast=on and Deep=on actually employs fewer filter than if you turn Deep and Fast off, but I could be misremembering that.. however I don't think so.

So... the E-TRAC, in mineralized ground is an unrivaled relic hunter excepting maybe the machine in the hands of those who have put in mega hours on a suitable machine like the V3i (if they have it set right), the Nautilus, or T2... the Teknetics team has been winnig some hunts... and at a good site that hasn't been pounded to death.. I might choose a T2 or (though I have yet used one an AT-Pro).. however at any "hunted out" site... i'll take the E-TRAC everytime, unless the AT really surprises me... and I have to give honorable mention to the Omega-8000 which has found me some old coins at olde sites that have been hunted so much that they should not have been there...

Julien

 

[jbow]

You have helped me decide that I need to get an AT-Pro.. your comments and the fact that our friend Keith Southern has taken such a shine to it and the shine is still there...

I never thought i'd sell my Sovereign GT because it was my first detector... and frankly, it will be hard to do... but if it is replaced at the beach then I probably need to let it go... heck, I have good results in the dry sand with a T2, forget it in the wet sand though... but I have rarely ever found anything in the wet sand anyway.

J

 

[jbow]

I think that the E-TRAC will equal or exceed the Sovereign on wet sand anyday but the Sovereign has two things going for it. One, you can chestmount the box on the Sov but not the ET making the Sov a good bit lighter and easier to swing for longer while holding it above the ground. Two, you don't have to worry about lifting the coil above the box when you use the Sovereign. With the ET, unless you take precautions, you better not forget and lift the coil out of the water and above the box. If I were to use the ET in the surf I would cut a dry sponge into small pieces and stuff them into the top of the upper shaft just in case I were to forget and lift the coil out of the water and above the box... it should be enough of a stop-gap to protect the machine. An Excal would be better in the water. A waterproof FBS machine would be a HIT I think.

I forget who posted it but someone posted a few months ago about using the E-TRAC on the beach and it was a very good report, I do remember that.

J

 

[jbow]

I don't like the concept of competition hunts myself. Not just the ones were items are planted (they seem pointless to me), but also group hunts at private locations that have been secured for the group.

I used to feel that way about seeded hunts but i've talked to so many people who have had so much fun at them I may have to try one... as for the private hunts at secured sites... they can be fun because of all the people you can meet but there are also cliques. My main problem with them is that everyone wants to leave the motel before daylight and be at the site before daylight... and well, when I was younger I could do that, these days I may be able to do it one day but the next day... I will be done if I have to be out from dawn to dark... then leave the site... then eat... then try to wind down... then try to get to sleep... then get up well before dawn again... not my cup of tea... I just cannot do it. Driving through Virginia is an experience though!

If you ever go to one with teams... follow one of the top teams like Nauty or Tek at a distance... they wont like it but there isn't much they can do about it... they aren't going to hit you with a shovel. Some teams seem to have a plan and know where to go.

Oh, and another thing about those sort of hunts... they aren't necessarily detecting hunts. Most turn into hut digging and you know I said I had a problem getting up way before daylight and hunting till dark... well, I have an even bigger problem digging a hole 5' deep... not that I don't want to but I don't want to have to ride and ambulance back home either, laff... I knows me limits... a lesson learned. A young man can jump a fence, a little older and it takes one hand on the fence post to jump it, then comes the day that ye catch ye olde foot on the wire and go down hard... then ye learns to go around things... and not be a digging deep holes in hard ground. Me back has betrayed me... arrr.

J

 

[jbow]

When I open a post and I see that it is so long I have to hit the down button twice to get to the bottom.. I just politely back out. When a thread has a hundred long posts... I just can't seem to muster the interest to read it... I may scan some but the long ones only get a scan... then again some of my three sentence posts aren't worth reading..

J

 

[Critterhunter]

The subject has been pounded to death since sometime in September of last year when Critter brought it up with over 2000 viewers and a thread with 137 entries. His thread has more words than War And Peace and could qualified for the 2010 Pulitzer. Check it out. Your thread is just a short story compared to that. I say all this with tongue in Cheek. I exaggerate a little. The one I really puked over was EXCAL CHARGER. Another thread of epic proportions that explained everything including the theory of electricity and E=C squared and the theory of relativity. HH

It always makes me chuckle when people complain about long/detailed threads like they are forced to sit down and read them. Use the scroll bar, the back icon, or don't click on the thread in the first place! Simple as that. I really could care less about all the Excal threads. IMO they should be in the beach forum, but I don't bash people for talking about lots of things that I have zero interest in. My secret? Using a mouse. I even go so far as to block posts by certain people on my computer when they start to get personal or are just out to cause a flame war. Simple as that. And, for every complaint I've had I can count ten people that have in PMs, Emails, or over the phone thanked me for things like the Excal thread or the 15x12 and 12x10 reviews.

One of the things that motivated me to do the Excal thread was the constant bogus information that better batteries meant better performance, or the constant posting of "great chargers" people should buy when they are two or three times more expensive than something like the Accucel 6 and won't even do 1/4th the number of things that excellent charger has. I hate seeing people waste there money on things just because they don't have better information. That was the motivation behind that thread. That along with trying to kill for good some of the myths about batteries that keep popping up out there. It seems the hobby of metal detecting is about twenty years behind the RC plane crowd in terms of battery and charger technology. Just driving to bring some people up to speed.

So long as we are voicing complaints I fall into the camp that feels there isn't enough detail when people overview, compare, or give opinions. Such-N-Such Coil X sucks compared to Coil Y? Great, you've made your opinion known...But how about some content and specific reasons why to back it up? That's my beef. I WANT MORE DETAIL!

 

[Critterhunter]

Jbow, have you tried a 12x10 on your Sovereign? I can tell you that it's ability to separate targets is GREATLY improved even over the excellent stock 10" Tornado. It's like a different machine in that I feel like I've got a surgical knife under the coil. I will be doing a lot of head to head comparisons of the GT with 12x10 to the Etrac in terms of both depth, unmasking, and coins on edge...So YOU CAN ALL LOOK FORWARD TO LONG/DETAILED/ENDLESS POSTS IN THE 12X10 THREAD COME SPRING! Not kidding here, either. If the Etrac shows me that it can get coins that the GT & 12x10 can't then I'll buy one. I have my doubts but am willing to keep an open mind about it. Everybody else try to do the same thing.

 

[dbsmokey]

Critterhunter,

I agree. If a post is too long for one's patience, he or she should just skip over it. Why complain about it? I think detail is good. We live in the "want it now" generation. Varying opinions are good and, in my opinion, help keep us away from the "follow the popular opinion sheep mentality" we have been so programmed to swallow in public school, etc...

 

[jbow]

I couldn't justify the cost of a 12x10 for the Sovereign. I have one for the E-TRAC and it may be slightly deeper than the stock Pro coil but I am not sure. I also have an 8x6 for the E-TRAC and it is only slightly better in trash, IMO. I am a big fan of the Pro coil... I was distracted most of last season by the V3 and Omega... and F75 LTD... but plan to spend more time with the E-TRAC again this spring and summer, not giving up on the V3 (am going to upgrade the V3 to the V3i soon... I consider the V3 to be the only machine I have that is on par with the E-TRAC... but the ET does it easier. I have a suspicion that if I spend enough time learning the V3i, it's tweakability may enable it to trump anything... but i'm not there yet and the ET and O8K are Sooooo easy to use and get excellent results with). In testing known deep targets the ET and V3 were the only two machines that would stop me in my tracks while moving at regular hunting speed. Some other machines would hit known deep target, but only because I knew it was there.. the V3 and ET were the only two to give a stable and correct TID too. I have not tried the T2 on same target and don't remember if I used the GT, but I think I did. In any case my friend is using my GT right now and he has access to said target, so I will know soon how it does. In fact I will try to get out there next week (not this week... too cold and messy) and try every machine the two of us have and make notes. The target is a minnie at 10" buried for 20+ years... i'll test everything and make notes. If you want me to do anything in particular let me know.
Sorry to ramble, shooting from the hip...

Anyway... Critter, in my opinion the E-TRAC is more of an improved Sovereign (with FBS) than it is an improved Explorer. It is absolute simpicity and a pleasure to use and it usually dominates in the field. There will always be sites and days when for some reason one machine will work better than another... but to me the ET set's the standard for detectors. You know it has "pitch hold" audio available so the thresold will reset to the last target tone, like a Sovereign... It moves much faster with better results and unmasks like nothing I have ever seen... all that with an 11" coil.

I am going to ask for an AT-Pro for my birthday... gotta try one... I am hopeless...

Julien

 

[jbow]

Hurry up... I don't have all minute!



Julien

 

[Neil]

I couldn't justify the cost of a 12x10 for the Sovereign. I have one for the E-TRAC and it may be slightly deeper than the stock Pro coil but I am not sure. I also have an 8x6 for the E-TRAC and it is only slightly better in trash, IMO. I am a big fan of the Pro coil... I was distracted most of last season by the V3 and Omega... and F75 LTD... but plan to spend more time with the E-TRAC again this spring and summer, not giving up on the V3 (am going to upgrade the V3 to the V3i soon... I consider the V3 to be the only machine I have that is on par with the E-TRAC... but the ET does it easier. I have a suspicion that if I spend enough time learning the V3i, it's tweakability may enable it to trump anything... but i'm not there yet and the ET and O8K are Sooooo easy to use and get excellent results with). In testing known deep targets the ET and V3 were the only two machines that would stop me in my tracks while moving at regular hunting speed. Some other machines would hit known deep target, but only because I knew it was there.. the V3 and ET were the only two to give a stable and correct TID too. I have not tried the T2 on same target and don't remember if I used the GT, but I think I did. In any case my friend is using my GT right now and he has access to said target, so I will know soon how it does. In fact I will try to get out there next week (not this week... too cold and messy) and try every machine the two of us have and make notes. The target is a minnie at 10" buried for 20+ years... i'll test everything and make notes. If you want me to do anything in particular let me know.
Sorry to ramble, shooting from the hip...

Anyway... Critter, in my opinion the E-TRAC is more of an improved Sovereign (with FBS) than it is an improved Explorer. It is absolute simpicity and a pleasure to use and it usually dominates in the field. There will always be sites and days when for some reason one machine will work better than another... but to me the ET set's the standard for detectors. You know it has "pitch hold" audio available so the thresold will reset to the last target tone, like a Sovereign... It moves much faster with better results and unmasks like nothing I have ever seen... all that with an 11" coil.

I am going to ask for an AT-Pro for my birthday... gotta try one... I am hopeless...

Julien

the explorer SE has the pitch hold also. the sov/explorer/etrac are all fairly simple to use and are good hunters right out of the box with minimal adjustments.
how in the heck do you come up with its more of an improved sov instead of an improved explorer?

 

[w6pea]

n/t

 

[Critterhunter]

Really look forward to hearing the results of your testing with all those machines! I'm still tempted by the T2 or F75LTD, but am still trying to get opinions on which of the Fishers/Omegas/T2s/AT Pro goes deepest on silver/copper coins in medium to high mineral sites. It's either one of those or an Etrac if I ever do leave the GT, but I'll have to see for myself that it's a deeper machine or able to unmask better. I'll be conducting the Etrac/GT with 12x10 tests against two friends in the field and will report results as they go. One friend just got his Etrac. He's upgrading from an Explorer. The other guy is supposed to upgrade from a 6000 Pro XL to an Etrac this week, but I'm not sure now if he still will. After some exposure to the other guy's Etrac he is kind of scared off by all the settings and such. I told him not to worry about it. That most of that stuff you'll only set once. Told him he won't even need to tweak sensitivity as many guys hunt in Semi-Auto with a plus 2 or 3 setting. Told him that even with the stock coin program many newbies to detecting are going out and digging some nice silvers. I'm sure I can talk him into getting the Etrac and told him I'll research/read about all the settings on it to help explain/set things up for him. Part of my motivation is that I'm sure he'll let me borrow the Etrac to use any time I want so I can really do some comparisons with it to the GT, but we'll be doing that in the field a lot anyway. He's going to keep his 6000 Pro XL to use as his scouting machine in the woods and such where we are trying to cover a lot of ground, then he'll head back with his Etrac to work the area.

 

[therover]

For keeping that XL-Pro and how he is going to utlize it. Itis definitely a great cruising unit, and a great unit overall. If I didn't beach hunt 90% of the time I would have kept mine.

 

[Critterhunter]

Yes, I owned two 6000 Pro Xls and they were great machines. Probably had the best ground tracking of any machine I've ever used, though I rarely used that and prefer a static setting for best depth. My big complaint was no tone alerts and a slow analog dial, which meant I had to keep my face glued to the meter when hunting in heavy trash. That wore me out constantly watching that dial, where as I prefer to listen for tone alerts and then look at the dial. It probably was the most accurate machine I've ever used in terms of telling you if a coin was silver or not, even more so than my Explorers as far as being consistent in that.

 

[jbow]

Between you and me... I would pass on the F75 LTD. Don't know about the T2 SE. The regular T2 is ok. The F LTD is, for me, hard to understand and hard to get any sort of decent TID on a deep target.4" or less and the TID is fine.. 10" it is a guessing game, at least for me and where i've used it.

It may work well wher you hunt though... don't know. I've been to one place where I simply could not use it and another place it was so quiet I had to check to see if it was on... 5" coil and max sens in BP... I've also been to at least one place where the Sovereign trumped every detector I tried and I had all of them with me. The GT just locked on to targets where all the others only gave really iffy signals, both audio and VDI. Targets were deep... gold, silver, and pre-1920 wheaties. Everytime I think I get things figured out something shows me that I don't really know anything for sure.

I think the best FTP detector is the Omega... it really is fun to use.

J

 

[jbow]

I couldn't justify the cost of a 12x10 for the Sovereign. I have one for the E-TRAC and it may be slightly deeper than the stock Pro coil but I am not sure. I also have an 8x6 for the E-TRAC and it is only slightly better in trash, IMO. I am a big fan of the Pro coil... I was distracted most of last season by the V3 and Omega... and F75 LTD... but plan to spend more time with the E-TRAC again this spring and summer, not giving up on the V3 (am going to upgrade the V3 to the V3i soon... I consider the V3 to be the only machine I have that is on par with the E-TRAC... but the ET does it easier. I have a suspicion that if I spend enough time learning the V3i, it's tweakability may enable it to trump anything... but i'm not there yet and the ET and O8K are Sooooo easy to use and get excellent results with). In testing known deep targets the ET and V3 were the only two machines that would stop me in my tracks while moving at regular hunting speed. Some other machines would hit known deep target, but only because I knew it was there.. the V3 and ET were the only two to give a stable and correct TID too. I have not tried the T2 on same target and don't remember if I used the GT, but I think I did. In any case my friend is using my GT right now and he has access to said target, so I will know soon how it does. In fact I will try to get out there next week (not this week... too cold and messy) and try every machine the two of us have and make notes. The target is a minnie at 10" buried for 20+ years... i'll test everything and make notes. If you want me to do anything in particular let me know.
Sorry to ramble, shooting from the hip...

Anyway... Critter, in my opinion the E-TRAC is more of an improved Sovereign (with FBS) than it is an improved Explorer. It is absolute simpicity and a pleasure to use and it usually dominates in the field. There will always be sites and days when for some reason one machine will work better than another... but to me the ET set's the standard for detectors. You know it has "pitch hold" audio available so the thresold will reset to the last target tone, like a Sovereign... It moves much faster with better results and unmasks like nothing I have ever seen... all that with an 11" coil.

I am going to ask for an AT-Pro for my birthday... gotta try one... I am hopeless...

Julien

the explorer SE has the pitch hold also. the sov/explorer/etrac are all fairly simple to use and are good hunters right out of the box with minimal adjustments.
how in the heck do you come up with its more of an improved sov instead of an improved explorer?

Just my opinion...

Julien

 

[Neil]

I couldn't justify the cost of a 12x10 for the Sovereign. I have one for the E-TRAC and it may be slightly deeper than the stock Pro coil but I am not sure. I also have an 8x6 for the E-TRAC and it is only slightly better in trash, IMO. I am a big fan of the Pro coil... I was distracted most of last season by the V3 and Omega... and F75 LTD... but plan to spend more time with the E-TRAC again this spring and summer, not giving up on the V3 (am going to upgrade the V3 to the V3i soon... I consider the V3 to be the only machine I have that is on par with the E-TRAC... but the ET does it easier. I have a suspicion that if I spend enough time learning the V3i, it's tweakability may enable it to trump anything... but i'm not there yet and the ET and O8K are Sooooo easy to use and get excellent results with). In testing known deep targets the ET and V3 were the only two machines that would stop me in my tracks while moving at regular hunting speed. Some other machines would hit known deep target, but only because I knew it was there.. the V3 and ET were the only two to give a stable and correct TID too. I have not tried the T2 on same target and don't remember if I used the GT, but I think I did. In any case my friend is using my GT right now and he has access to said target, so I will know soon how it does. In fact I will try to get out there next week (not this week... too cold and messy) and try every machine the two of us have and make notes. The target is a minnie at 10" buried for 20+ years... i'll test everything and make notes. If you want me to do anything in particular let me know.
Sorry to ramble, shooting from the hip...

Anyway... Critter, in my opinion the E-TRAC is more of an improved Sovereign (with FBS) than it is an improved Explorer. It is absolute simpicity and a pleasure to use and it usually dominates in the field. There will always be sites and days when for some reason one machine will work better than another... but to me the ET set's the standard for detectors. You know it has "pitch hold" audio available so the thresold will reset to the last target tone, like a Sovereign... It moves much faster with better results and unmasks like nothing I have ever seen... all that with an 11" coil.

I am going to ask for an AT-Pro for my birthday... gotta try one... I am hopeless...

Julien

the explorer SE has the pitch hold also. the sov/explorer/etrac are all fairly simple to use and are good hunters right out of the box with minimal adjustments.
how in the heck do you come up with its more of an improved sov instead of an improved explorer?

Just my opinion...

Julien

was looking for your reasoning but thats ok