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Question 4 Critterhunter & Crazyman About The Sovereign
- Thread starter Will Penny
- Start date
I prefer the Etrac to the GT on the wet although theres not much in it especially on clean clear beaches, once you get in amongst trash, canslaw etc the etrac shines brighter, in heavy iron infested the sovs just not in the running in my oppinion, especially as you have the same tone ID in all metal as in disc on the etrac, you can hear and tell the iron by the sound and also whatevers next to it rather than a null and chirp of a maybee next to it
Critterhunter
New member
There are some who say that FBS machines (Explorer/Etrac) just don't work as well at the beach for some reason while the Sovereign (BBS) runs smooth as silk. I've also heard of this being said at certain high mineral land sites. I plan to test that theory when out with two friends who just bought Etracs. I'm anxious to see how the 12x10 on the GT compares to the Etrac in both separation and depth.
As for the pace of hunting goes, I always seem to do better when I take things slow, and I'm not talking about because the Sovereign wants things slow. The majority of sites I hunt are of course pounded out spots, which means I'm about 30 years too late in trying to be the fastest/first person to swing over a patch of ground. Now it's down to taking your time and working a patch of ground from various angles, sniffing at "junk" from odd angles trying to reveal coins mixed in with it, or just listening for that ultra deep signal that might be a deep coin.
I don't like the concept of competition hunts myself. Not just the ones were items are planted (they seem pointless to me), but also group hunts at private locations that have been secured for the group. Metal detecting to me is something that is supposed to relax me, so if I want competition and a hurried up pace I'd be running marathons or competing in some other form of sport. When I hunt I want to smell the roses, listen to the sounds of nature, and soak in the feeling of freedom it gives me.
That being said, my main first love and probably what I do most of the time is hunting the woods. In that case I'm traveling for miles some times without hearing a signal, up and down ravines and ridge spines, acrossed creeks, and so on. In that situation the stock GT was just too heavy and wore me out. That's why I dropped close to a pound and a half off it's weight with my custom shaft and lipo. I tried hip mounting but it through off the balance and made getting through brush harder in the woods. Anyway, in the "scouting mode" I do hunting woods I probably prefered my QXT Pro over the GT when trying to quickly scout over as much ground as possible in search of signals to zone in on. That's where a fast sweep machine can be handy, but I'd for sure not considered the spot hunting out until I've re-worked it with my GT. On the other hand, there is something to be said about taking your time even when trying to scout the woods. I can't tell you how many nice silvers I've dug in the woods that, had I not slowed down and gridded out a spot, would have been missed by me. That's the way I think of it- The Sovereign forces you to do what you know you should do despite the fact that you don't want to. (Say that ten times fast!)
We all want to "get there from here" as fast as possible, but most of us know deep down in side that taking short cuts or speeding things up is the wrong thing to do. That's my point about fast sweep machines. Many of them need that pace in order to maintain optimum depth/response from targets. Try to slow the coil down and work an area listening for those deep or hidden whispers and they start to lose performance. In a sense they won't let you do what you need to do in order to work the area like it should be.
As for the pace of hunting goes, I always seem to do better when I take things slow, and I'm not talking about because the Sovereign wants things slow. The majority of sites I hunt are of course pounded out spots, which means I'm about 30 years too late in trying to be the fastest/first person to swing over a patch of ground. Now it's down to taking your time and working a patch of ground from various angles, sniffing at "junk" from odd angles trying to reveal coins mixed in with it, or just listening for that ultra deep signal that might be a deep coin.
I don't like the concept of competition hunts myself. Not just the ones were items are planted (they seem pointless to me), but also group hunts at private locations that have been secured for the group. Metal detecting to me is something that is supposed to relax me, so if I want competition and a hurried up pace I'd be running marathons or competing in some other form of sport. When I hunt I want to smell the roses, listen to the sounds of nature, and soak in the feeling of freedom it gives me.
That being said, my main first love and probably what I do most of the time is hunting the woods. In that case I'm traveling for miles some times without hearing a signal, up and down ravines and ridge spines, acrossed creeks, and so on. In that situation the stock GT was just too heavy and wore me out. That's why I dropped close to a pound and a half off it's weight with my custom shaft and lipo. I tried hip mounting but it through off the balance and made getting through brush harder in the woods. Anyway, in the "scouting mode" I do hunting woods I probably prefered my QXT Pro over the GT when trying to quickly scout over as much ground as possible in search of signals to zone in on. That's where a fast sweep machine can be handy, but I'd for sure not considered the spot hunting out until I've re-worked it with my GT. On the other hand, there is something to be said about taking your time even when trying to scout the woods. I can't tell you how many nice silvers I've dug in the woods that, had I not slowed down and gridded out a spot, would have been missed by me. That's the way I think of it- The Sovereign forces you to do what you know you should do despite the fact that you don't want to. (Say that ten times fast!)
We all want to "get there from here" as fast as possible, but most of us know deep down in side that taking short cuts or speeding things up is the wrong thing to do. That's my point about fast sweep machines. Many of them need that pace in order to maintain optimum depth/response from targets. Try to slow the coil down and work an area listening for those deep or hidden whispers and they start to lose performance. In a sense they won't let you do what you need to do in order to work the area like it should be.
Unless you got into All Metal mode on the Sovereign , which does NOT give you any VID to double check your target , you cannot hear any iron ....it just nulls as a built in feature of the Discrimination setup on the Soveriegn .....On the E Trac, you have VID in the Quick Mask mode , AND you can adjust just how far you want to discriminate your iron !!.....Not only that but if you are in a trashy area , and you get tired of hearing the null all the time , you can run your E Trac in 2 Tone Ferrous , which will STILL give you a deep tone , for the iron complete with a VDI both Ferrous and Conductive , and a high tone for your non Ferrous objects like coins .....This way you don't even have to discriminate if you don't want to , and you never have to wait for the recovery of the detector ....
This only one featrure when dealing with iron with the E Trac ..... As time goes on , you weill realize that the one factor that everyone looks at first ( DEPTH ) is not nearly as much of any issue , as how a machine can seperate targets , and how well it discriminates iron out of the picture , or how well it brings iron into the picture WITHOUT driving you crazy with a milliion tones !!.... I have seen the masking issues of the Soveriegn as opposed to how the E Trac handles iron ....There is no comparison ....Sometimes you can go slower , or move in a different direction , or mess with your controls , or do a number of different things to get the Sovefreign to identify a target , when the E Trac does all this work in the background and gives you instant results !!..... You can double , and triple check just about EVERYTHING !!..... As far as depth goes, I would call it pretty much a toss up , that is IF and a big IF , you can even hear certain targets with the Sovereign , that you can easily hear with the E Trac .....it's RARELY a depth issue .......If the target has iron laying a certain distance or a certain angle to your target , all the depth in the world is NOT going to help you !!...... The E Trac has the depth , but also has other features that in a lot of cases helps you a LOT more than just depth ..... BOTTOM LINE ( and I can prove it !!! ) There is NOTHING that the Soveriegn can do that the E Trac can't do , but there are many things that the E Trac can do that the Sovereign can't !!......
When on the beach , the Soverieign most of the tme is all that's needed .....Thats why I keep an Excal today !!!.... If I'm hunting the dry , and want to hit the water , I can do so with my Excal ..... Same technology as the Sovereign ..... One thing I can do with the E Trac and the AT Pro is that the VID is different enough that I don't have to continue digging Copper Pennies like I did wtih the Soveriegn ...... My last hunt , I WANTED the Copper pennies because I was hitting nothing but Wheats !!!.... I also hit a 1943 Siver Half , and a 1906 Barber Quarter , not to mention a bunch of Buffalo's and Mercs !!......No , it was not with a Sovereign ...... and NO it was not with my beloved E Trac ......It was with my AT Pro !!!......and I was moving faster than a rabbit and my pockets were full !!..... Now THAT little machine can handle iron pretty darn well , and fast too !!!.... Don't get me going on that one !!.......
If you want to spend time investigating a target , and trying to find out what the target is and listen for tell tale signs of whatever and you have the time to do all the what I call , The Sovereign Rituals , then the Sovereign in the machine to have !!...... If you want a machine that has a longer learning curve, but has more features than you can shake a stick at , and you can learn to set the machine up for the area that you are hunting in , and make a simple preset that all you have to do is hit the preset , do a noise cancel , and your off and running without having to deal with the rituals every time you hit an iffy target , then the E Trac is your machine ..... I STILL think that the Sovereign and the Excal are one of the sexiest sounding detectors on the market !!.....They really do have a very telling tone , and yes , moreso than the E Trac and moreso than the AT PRo , but when it comes down to features , and the ability to discriminate , and the ability to seperate with a GREAT VID , and the ability to deal with iron masking , both the AT PRo and the E Trac have it over the Sovereign ..... Come Spring , if anyone is in the NY/NJ area that would like to do a comparison test of ANY of the detectors out there , and just spend a day checking each others targets , I'd be more than glad to spend a day or two doing just that ....This way you can check things out first hand , and see for yourself what I'm talking about ..... It was this kind of testing that openned my eyes ......Jim
This only one featrure when dealing with iron with the E Trac ..... As time goes on , you weill realize that the one factor that everyone looks at first ( DEPTH ) is not nearly as much of any issue , as how a machine can seperate targets , and how well it discriminates iron out of the picture , or how well it brings iron into the picture WITHOUT driving you crazy with a milliion tones !!.... I have seen the masking issues of the Soveriegn as opposed to how the E Trac handles iron ....There is no comparison ....Sometimes you can go slower , or move in a different direction , or mess with your controls , or do a number of different things to get the Sovefreign to identify a target , when the E Trac does all this work in the background and gives you instant results !!..... You can double , and triple check just about EVERYTHING !!..... As far as depth goes, I would call it pretty much a toss up , that is IF and a big IF , you can even hear certain targets with the Sovereign , that you can easily hear with the E Trac .....it's RARELY a depth issue .......If the target has iron laying a certain distance or a certain angle to your target , all the depth in the world is NOT going to help you !!...... The E Trac has the depth , but also has other features that in a lot of cases helps you a LOT more than just depth ..... BOTTOM LINE ( and I can prove it !!! ) There is NOTHING that the Soveriegn can do that the E Trac can't do , but there are many things that the E Trac can do that the Sovereign can't !!......
When on the beach , the Soverieign most of the tme is all that's needed .....Thats why I keep an Excal today !!!.... If I'm hunting the dry , and want to hit the water , I can do so with my Excal ..... Same technology as the Sovereign ..... One thing I can do with the E Trac and the AT Pro is that the VID is different enough that I don't have to continue digging Copper Pennies like I did wtih the Soveriegn ...... My last hunt , I WANTED the Copper pennies because I was hitting nothing but Wheats !!!.... I also hit a 1943 Siver Half , and a 1906 Barber Quarter , not to mention a bunch of Buffalo's and Mercs !!......No , it was not with a Sovereign ...... and NO it was not with my beloved E Trac ......It was with my AT Pro !!!......and I was moving faster than a rabbit and my pockets were full !!..... Now THAT little machine can handle iron pretty darn well , and fast too !!!.... Don't get me going on that one !!.......
If you want to spend time investigating a target , and trying to find out what the target is and listen for tell tale signs of whatever and you have the time to do all the what I call , The Sovereign Rituals , then the Sovereign in the machine to have !!...... If you want a machine that has a longer learning curve, but has more features than you can shake a stick at , and you can learn to set the machine up for the area that you are hunting in , and make a simple preset that all you have to do is hit the preset , do a noise cancel , and your off and running without having to deal with the rituals every time you hit an iffy target , then the E Trac is your machine ..... I STILL think that the Sovereign and the Excal are one of the sexiest sounding detectors on the market !!.....They really do have a very telling tone , and yes , moreso than the E Trac and moreso than the AT PRo , but when it comes down to features , and the ability to discriminate , and the ability to seperate with a GREAT VID , and the ability to deal with iron masking , both the AT PRo and the E Trac have it over the Sovereign ..... Come Spring , if anyone is in the NY/NJ area that would like to do a comparison test of ANY of the detectors out there , and just spend a day checking each others targets , I'd be more than glad to spend a day or two doing just that ....This way you can check things out first hand , and see for yourself what I'm talking about ..... It was this kind of testing that openned my eyes ......Jim
Considering the bad press Minelab has been getting lately I'm going in a different manufacture direction. With the new SOVGT pricing structure vs Exp and Etrac I can't see any new hunter wanting to step up in class from say a Garrett, buying a GT. As an old style hunter I liked the simplicity of the SOV and the GT was at the head of that line. You have one thing right--all that depth discussion and comparisons is not the end all of detecting and in my mind not even close to being a major factor in finding good stuff. If some detector company brings out a detector with a two foot guarantee the majority of hunters will be disappointed with it. Of course relic hunters looking for iron cannon balls buried under two centuries of dirt will be ecstatic.. Finally If I read another post on the merits or lack thereof on the 10X12SEF I think I'll puke. Selling my GT will get me far far away from that over discussed discussion. It's giving me forum burnout 
DonNWF said:Considering the bad press Minelab has been getting lately I'm going in a different manufacture direction. With the new SOVGT pricing structure vs Exp and Etrac I can't see any new hunter wanting to step up in class from say a Garrett, buying a GT. As an old style hunter I liked the simplicity of the SOV and the GT was at the head of that line. You have one thing right--all that depth discussion and comparisons is not the end all of detecting and in my mind not even close to being a major factor in finding good stuff. If some detector company brings out a detector with a two foot guarantee the majority of hunters will be disappointed with it. Of course relic hunters looking for iron cannon balls buried under two centuries of dirt will be ecstatic.. Finally If I read another post on the merits or lack thereof on the 10X12SEF I think I'll puke. Selling my GT will get me far far away from that over discussed discussion. It's giving me forum burnout
Sorry my other post is making you puke, Don
regards
Ed
The subject has been pounded to death since sometime in September of last year when Critter brought it up with over 2000 viewers and a thread with 137 entries. His thread has more words than War And Peace and could qualified for the 2010 Pulitzer. Check it out. Your thread is just a short story compared to that. I say all this with tongue in Cheek. I exaggerate a little. The one I really puked over was EXCAL CHARGER. Another thread of epic proportions that explained everything including the theory of electricity and E=C squared and the theory of relativity. HH
Will Penny
New member
Lets all be CIVIL like CritterHunter said before foul language is used.
The problem with the longer threads was more of one having to REPEAT themselves because there was nobody stepping up to the plate to become a moderator , and there was no chance at having "STICKIES" put into place .....The discussion would be over for about a day or two, and someone elee would chime in on it and it would start all over again .....In defense of long winded threads, there is a LOT of good information there even if you have to wade thru a lot to get to it .... ...... After all that went into that thread , people STILL have battery questions and comments .....It's just a hot topic !!.....Jim
My personal opinion and objection is that many of these threads have become long winded oratory and sometimes not even connected to the original subject matter. I can be as long winded as the next and have proved it. I see nothing derogatory in my objection to overlong postings and disconnected replies that leave one wondering what the original subject matter was. Now if I had said that a lot of this is rambling is BS, that would be derogatory. I've never said that. Try a smiley face next time you want to give me advice. 
Will Penny
New member
Long winded and 38,000 words to explain how a coin was found next to aDonNWF said:My personal opinion and objection is that many of these threads have become long winded oratory and sometimes not even connected to the original subject matter. I can be as long winded as the next and have proved it. I see nothing derogatory in my objection to overlong postings and disconnected replies that leave one wondering what the original subject matter was. Now if I had said that a lot of this is rambling is BS, that would be derogatory. I've never said that. Try a smiley face next time you want to give me advice.
can is a little to much to swallow.I get sick & tired of hearing all that talk about the theory and e=c also ..And really don't care to hear about all that bull how they might set it up yes... But all those details that just drives me nuts.............. who cares i hunt treasure .......... I am not a repair man and don't care what makes them tick.DonNWF said:The subject has been pounded to death since sometime in September of last year when Critter brought it up with over 2000 viewers and a thread with 137 entries. His thread has more words than War And Peace and could qualified for the 2010 Pulitzer. Check it out. Your thread is just a short story compared to that. I say all this with tongue in Cheek. I exaggerate a little. The one I really puked over was EXCAL CHARGER. Another thread of epic proportions that explained everything including the theory of electricity and E=C squared and the theory of relativity. HH
Neil
Well-known member
synthnut said:
Stickies would be fine and we do have a moderator, Joe from South Jersey I believe had volunteered to do whatever a moderator does. A day to day moderator would be more useful/needed on a more active forum, such as the explorer/etrac/whites forums, but not here.
there is no defense for long winded posts but there is a solution, I jump right past them, works for me
the search link at the top of the page can help answer alot of questions.
I have noticed that some people love to hear [ them self ] talk and in their own mind they are a legend. They know just enough to be dangerous to them self and others around them. 99% of these computer chair jockey's need to stop reading about others who lie about finding a be-be at 12 inches next to a I Beam with a machine that is no better then any other machine on the market. If you think different,all you are doing is blowing smoke out your caboose. 
Just my opinion, I have been detecting on and off for close to thirty years and have been fortunate enough to own many machines over the years. I dont post much but really enjoy reading the forums and learning from them. This is not directed towards anybody but I think to be able to give advice on a certain Machine one should have put some real time in with it. Imagine if there was only ONE machine on the market today, I think we all would learn that Machine so well there would be no need for another lol. The bottom line guys learn your Machine! put your time in,build and utilize a test garden,air test, and enjoy the heck out of this great hobby!
If any of this was directed at my posts, well u can kiss it... I thoroughly appreciate those that make an informative post describing how things work, why they work, and hearing about how a target sounded and why. That's why I threw my 2 cents out there because it may have been helpful to someone. Those who don't wanna hear the tech talk on detectors probably also don't service their own cars, why? Cuz ignorance is bliss in society today and people would rather just pay to play rather then listen to those willing to teach. I drive an old diesel mercedes because it's tried and true, I know what to expect based on others testimonials and do all my own mechanic work because I took the time to listen to someones insight.
Learning your machine is what it does come down too and someone is willing to give tidbits of relative info to help that along, I'll pick their brain all day. Knowing how a detector works and why it works brings in the finds that ignorant users miss... I appreciate all of the members of this forum, go on any other forum and all you will hear 90% of the time is kudos and congrats about peoples finds and how's the weather and who's in office. A bunch of useless talk that doesn't help anyone new or vet to make more finds...
Learning your machine is what it does come down too and someone is willing to give tidbits of relative info to help that along, I'll pick their brain all day. Knowing how a detector works and why it works brings in the finds that ignorant users miss... I appreciate all of the members of this forum, go on any other forum and all you will hear 90% of the time is kudos and congrats about peoples finds and how's the weather and who's in office. A bunch of useless talk that doesn't help anyone new or vet to make more finds...
Fir469. None of my comments was directed at you or anyone directly. I used Critters 10X12SEF thread that zigged and twisted all over the place with endless comments (over 137 posts) and the way too lengthy discussion on Excal Chargers as examples of threads that went way past informative and helpful. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it .I've read your stuff on different forums and it is always informative and helpful as is the one in this thread. I've tried the skipping trick but when you have to scroll down a full page to get past a thread, I draw the line. Wait a minute I'm adding to the length and confusion of this thread by changing the header line.
EXCUSE ME I'm out of here. But before I go please Check the Classified next month for my GT, 3 coils (10in, 8in concentric, 14 In Excelerator). Two Shafts (Stock and aftermarket), Gold headphones, covers.
There I snuck that in AND i'M WAY OFF TOPIC. . HH
Don
EXCUSE ME I'm out of here. But before I go please Check the Classified next month for my GT, 3 coils (10in, 8in concentric, 14 In Excelerator). Two Shafts (Stock and aftermarket), Gold headphones, covers.
There I snuck that in AND i'M WAY OFF TOPIC. . HH
Donthe E-TRAC is an awesome machine. I like the Sovereign for the beach or maybe somewhere with almost no trash but the E-TRAC is really the best. I am pretty well convinced I need to try an AT-Pro too, hearing too much good about it. The V3 will give a good signal and TID on a deep target too but isn't nearly as easy to use as an E-TRAC... FWIW, the Omega with the 11" coil running in AM is no slouch either. However, I am not convinced anything will go toe to toe with the E-TRAC in most situatons... and that Pro Coil is really a great design huh?
J
J