Question 4 Critterhunter & Crazyman About The Sovereign

[Will Penny]

I attend 3 of the 4 major Civil War Hunts that is put on by The Treasure Depot. The GNRS,North-South and Mardigras. Each event draws upwards of 100 people for each hunt. I think I saw maybe [ 1 ] Minelab machine at each event. Why don't you two attend these events and show these good old boys what they are missing. You would increase Minelab sales.

 

[candycane]

Good Idea,Go Show Them Good Old.

 

[RELIC_HUNTER]

That Is Not A Good Idea You Two.

 

[fir469]

The Sov is not the best machine for those type of hunts. Yes it will find some goodies, but it's abilities in iron laden sites can at times be down right sad. If one of the events is held at a place previously hunted in the same setting, Sov users may be disappointed, the trick with that many guys hunting and the presence of a lot of iron is to have a machine with a fast recovery speed and a the ability to use a moderate to fast swing speed to cover ground as most of the sites the depot gets are HUGE. I went to the N/S hunt at Fort P. and I'm glad I didn't have the Sov. I would have covered an acre or two swinging it like it should be. The users with T2's and F75's killed it due to the faster swing speed and super fast recovery getting between the garbage and sniffing out what was left. I used a Musketeer and did well I think. I covered a lot of ground due to its swing speed and nabbed a bunch of goodies. The Sov's can get overwhelmed with a lot of iron, they would however offer a nice advantage in hot soil though which could boost your chances. I dunno, just my two cents.

-Jason

 

[chuck ky]

the team hunt always has a lot of explorers on the minelab team and i've seen several explorers at some of then others i've been to.

 

[synthnut]

Yeah, we showed em what the good ole Sovereign can do, and Minelab has responded .............In another couple of weeks Minelab has responded with a $200 increase in the price of the Sovereign to show their gratitude !!....and soon after that they will show you that they are really loving your support and they'll proabably pull the plug altogether once they clear the shelves of all the Sovereigns ...... Then if you want the Multiband Technology , you will be forking out over $1,000 for the cheapest machine ...... That's what happens when a company comes to America !!.....It's the American way !!...... Repair them here in the USA , and have them made overseas !!.... Dontcha just love when a plan comes together ? ..Jim

 

[therover]

I was testing out my Advantage with the small coil, and that sucker was hitting my silver dime down about 7 inches fairly well with a moderate sweep speed, but when I ramped it up a bit, it was more clearer and sharper.

I like that Musky a lot.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Willy,the good ole boys don't bother this Sovereign user if they were closer I would be more than happy to help them on their hunt.To make it more fair I 'll bring the Radio Shack along.

 

[Neil]

I attend 3 of the 4 major Civil War Hunts that is put on by The Treasure Depot. The GNRS,North-South and Mardigras. Each event draws upwards of 100 people for each hunt. I think I saw maybe [ 1 ] Minelab machine at each event. Why don't you two attend these events and show these good old boys what they are missing. You would increase Minelab sales.

 

[Critterhunter]

Most events like that or competition hunts are a "grab it first" type of pace in that you've got to cover a lot of ground fast to beat others to the finds. Since Minelabs are slow sweep machines you probably wouldn't see too many guys using a Minelab at hunts like this. They'll use a fast sweep machine to cover as much ground as fast as possible.

As far as iron goes, I think many Sovereign users look at things the reverse of what I do. They let it bother them that the machine will null out over iron, ignoring the fact that it's doing it's job. Recently on two or three different occasions a friend using a Whites called me over to check a coin signal for him. They were a complete null for me because they were iron targets, and his machine was getting fooled into thinking they were coins. People don't mention that alot- That even with the discrimination turned up on other machines they still get fooled by various pieces of junk, where as the Sovereign does what it's supposed to do and reject the signal. I hardly ever dig iron junk thanks to the Sovereign's ability to ignore it. Sure, I dig the occasional nail but usually I knew it was going to be just that but wanted to dig it up to be sure.

Also, people also seem to overlook the Sovereign's ability to see good targets that are stewing in a bed of iron. I've dug more good finds that had iron in the hole with them on this machine than the others I've owned. For both this reason and the fantastic iron rejection abilities of this machine many who hunt high iron sites often prefer the Sovereign. Over in Europe where they've had metal working for much longer than in the US there are guys who use this machine BECAUSE of it's ability to not be fooled by iron, and also because of it's ability to see things in iron.

I've said it a thousand times...Sweep speed and recovery speed mean NOTHING so long as you investigate targets at the proper speed. Can you swing the coil like you are launching a golf ball and still separate targets? No, but why would you want to do that in the first place...Unless you are on a competition hunt. With proper coil placement, speed, and investigation there is no advantage to a fast recovery/sweep machine over the Sovereign. Also, if the coil can't see it then no amount of electronics in the control box matters. The coil's field must be able to see each target. That's where DD coils shine above concentrics used on other brands, and also where the 12x10 coil shines even further above the already impressive 10" Tornado.

 

[fir469]

I agree with the coil approach stance Critter, but in some sites the sov can null so hard with such a slow recovery from the null that targets can be easily missed. Have u ever used a mixed mode machine? Like a Nautilus or a Whites in mixed mode? Whole new ball game for sure. I have heard so many targets mixed in a THICK iron strewn patch of woods with my Nautilus that the Sov would never hear. When u hear the iron and the nonferrous target simultaneously you'd be shocked what you've missed. A target like that will cause the Sov to null and possibly give a hiccup of a signal, but most of the time those hiccups are a false on the edge of the iron target and not actually a nonferrous target. Some machines with a fast recovery offer the ability to hear the iron grunt and the nonferrous target tone on every swing whereas you'd be struggling to grasp that high tone with the Sov. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sov and it's iron blocking ability but in some cases it just pays to be the guy with the faster processor in this day and age, or just use mixed mode lol. While some do use explorers and sovs in Europe, most use XP adventis and Goldmaxxs, Red Heats, Tesoros, and other faster recovering machines with the ability to also swing a bit faster.

And as far as the Musky, yes I do sometimes notice a sharper response with the faster swing. The best part about the Musky is that the depth is equal fast or slow and with disc high or low. Killer machine for fields, only thing I don't like is it's lust for hot rocks lol. They sound like deep coins, smooth, quiet, but always pinpoint funny and that's usually the tell tale. Excellent comp machine, lightning fast recovery and not sweep speed dependant. With a multitone or TID option, I would never use a diff machine, but alas it's just the basics with this relic monster.

 

[Critterhunter]

I still say that if you use the coil properly the slower recovery from a null is a non-issue. In fact, just the other day I dug two or three copper pennies that were right up against iron junk. When you hear a null don't just sweep over it a couple of times. Slow down and give the machine time to see the iron, reset from it, and respond to anything nearby. Still, my favorite way to sniff out nearby targets that might be around iron is to do short back and fourth slow sweeps over the null while you walk the coil forward and backward over it and off to the side.

There's a few guys on this forum over in the UK somewhere that have stated some very good reasons as to why they prefer the Sovereign when hunting the high iron ancient sites they have for old coins. From memory they said you can count on the iron rejection to do just that, which is very critical at sites with that much iron where as with other machines they'd dig much more iron junk that fooled the machine.

 

[Critterhunter]

Oh by the way, yea I've used fast recovery machines and ones with Mixed Mode. One of the main things I don't like about fast recovery machines is they tend to reset the audio way too quick, making it harder to listen to the target's traits to sort out say rings from trash for instance. Also, with a shorter report there is more chance you'll miss that very deep whisper from a coin at fringe depth.

But, my main thing I don't care for on fast recovery machines is that I believe they have less ability to "grab onto" and sound off to a deep coin. Sort of like running a SAT setting too high. With a slow recovery/drawn out response machine like the Sovereign I can move the coil slowly over a deep target and draw out the best response I can from it.

Another factor is this...What's one of the most common tips given to people hunting pounded out sites in the search for missed coins? Slow down is what people say, and not just for the Sovereign. Problem is many fast recovery machines are also fast sweep machines. They lose ability if you try to slow down too much, unlike the Sovereign.

I look at it this way...Have you ever tried to read a sign passing it doing 100mph versus going 25? For the same reason I believe a slow recovery/slow sweep machine has much more chance to see and sound off to fringe depth targets.

Also, as said I've dug a lot of coins right up against even large pieces of iron with the GT. The trick is to use the coil properly. On ANY machine if the coil can't see the two targets separately it doesn't matter how exotic the electronics in the control box are, it doesn't even have a chance to analyze the targets. The coil must see them first, period, and much of that ability is proper coil technique. A fast recovery speed doesn't matter at all, and won't help at all, unless the coil can see the targets separately FIRST.

 

[JASONSPAZ1]

n/t

 

[Neil]

I agree with the coil approach stance Critter, but in some sites the sov can null so hard with such a slow recovery from the null that targets can be easily missed. Have u ever used a mixed mode machine? Like a Nautilus or a Whites in mixed mode? Whole new ball game for sure. I have heard so many targets mixed in a THICK iron strewn patch of woods with my Nautilus that the Sov would never hear. When u hear the iron and the nonferrous target simultaneously you'd be shocked what you've missed. A target like that will cause the Sov to null and possibly give a hiccup of a signal, but most of the time those hiccups are a false on the edge of the iron target and not actually a nonferrous target. Some machines with a fast recovery offer the ability to hear the iron grunt and the nonferrous target tone on every swing whereas you'd be struggling to grasp that high tone with the Sov. Don't get me wrong, I love my Sov and it's iron blocking ability but in some cases it just pays to be the guy with the faster processor in this day and age, or just use mixed mode lol. While some do use explorers and sovs in Europe, most use XP adventis and Goldmaxxs, Red Heats, Tesoros, and other faster recovering machines with the ability to also swing a bit faster.

And as far as the Musky, yes I do sometimes notice a sharper response with the faster swing. The best part about the Musky is that the depth is equal fast or slow and with disc high or low. Killer machine for fields, only thing I don't like is it's lust for hot rocks lol. They sound like deep coins, smooth, quiet, but always pinpoint funny and that's usually the tell tale. Excellent comp machine, lightning fast recovery and not sweep speed dependant. With a multitone or TID option, I would never use a diff machine, but alas it's just the basics with this relic monster.

You know your Sovs

When you know your detector you know what it can and cannot do.

Excellent post!

 

[fir469]

I totally agree with the stance that slower is better, as I practice it myself in almost all hunts. I own various machines for various tasks for to accommodate different sites and conditions because no machine is perfect for all environments. My Sov is my go behind machine, I use it to both go behind myself and others at sites moving super slow and trying to eek out a few extra targets that were missed. As you said going slow is key to pulling targets at extreme depth. I use my Musky and Nautilus for fields where coverage is better over slow sweeping. Prime example was a field close by that I started to grid due to the targets coming out with my DFX. I swung slow and recovered all that would chirp, however after doing this for 3 days I only covered about 1/5 of the field, the following day is was replowed and seeded and therefore off limits. By going so slow afraid of missing targets I missed out on who knows how many better targets that could have been recovered swinging faster and covering ground. My Nautilus and Musky will both hit coins at up to 12" deep with a fairly strong signal at a rather brisk sweep speed and will leave my Sov in the dust on many sites. My Sov is the go behind along with the Nautilus to sniff out the fringe targets when I have the time to go slow and focus on the iffy signals. I guess the main issue in a state as small as mine (Jersey) with so many hunters and few sites with great potential, I'd actually rather leave behind those very deep iffy signals at first in order to cover more ground and increase overall find totals to in essence rob others of those easier targets from 1-10" deep. After I feel I've covered the easier signals then I add the site to my B list and come back when time allows it to slowly work the site for extra goodies. An abandoned farm field close by explains this concept wonderfully, I hunted this site with a few others over the course of a few days and recovered almost 3 times the amount of targets using the Musky and covering ground while they methodically worked the same field slowly. We all had great finds but I recovered 3 times the targets. I now go back regularly to slowly work areas of the field with my Sov and Nauty and still pull one or two deep or masked targets each time but all the easy ones are gone and most ended up in my pouch not others... The fast swing speed coupled with the fast recovery speed allowed me to easily scour the field and maximize my finds. Every detector has its place and the Sov in my opinion is a beach hunting/clean up machine, not a main hunting detector... there are just too many other detectors out there with better "overall" capabilties to make a super slow swing speed machine your main gun.

Basically if you put 2 experienced detectorists in a fresh location, the one with the faster swing speed, processing, recovering machine will find more targets hands down. If in a hunted hard location the results may differ. Look at hardcore civil war relic hunting sector and you'll see what machines are most often used for "hunted out" sites... the majority use T2's, F75's, Goldbugs, and Nautilus machines, nary a one I've met or talked with uses a Sovereign. These guys are trying to eek out anything they can from hard hit sites, some overloaded with iron, others not.... The faster recovery allows for better separation while still maintaining impressive depth. Only reason I use a Sovereign for deep hunting at the moment is its versatility in mineralized sites and it functions better in EMI then the T2's and F75's and EMI is a bad problem out my way. Plus the Sov was a cheaper option with better performance n the beach which I'm also close too... I'm saving for an Etrac now just due to the targets I've seen come out of the same sites I hunt that the Sov never heard, whether it was due to depth or mixed in iron, the Sov just never heard em after multiple passes through with different coils and sens settings and the Etrac did... Even after located on the Etrac, I scanned the holes and couldn't hear em. They weren't the cleanest or best sounding targets on the Etrac nor did they ID correctly, but the thing is they sounded off...

 

[kered]

Amen fir169, times move on

 

[synthnut]

" I'm saving for an Etrac now just due to the targets I've seen come out of the same sites I hunt that the Sov never heard, whether it was due to depth or mixed in iron, the Sov just never heard em after multiple passes through with different coils and sens settings and the Etrac did... Even after located on the Etrac, I scanned the holes and couldn't hear em. They weren't the cleanest or best sounding targets on the Etrac nor did they ID correctly, but the thing is they sounded off..."

This was the MAJOR turning point for me when selling my Soveriegn ...... It's hard for people to understand , but when you witness it first hand , it's hard to get out of your head, especially when you're talking area's that are holding some nice Silver !!.....Jim


I also agree that fast recovery machines have their place .....I bought an AT Pro to pick up recent drops in the sand for this Summer's beach goers ........I already know that it will work PEFECTLY for that on targets down to 8-9" in the sand , and hit them quickly, and dead on pinpointing , and do it FAST !!..... When you are hunting these beaches , you better be the first one there , and you better have had your Wheaties , because there are guys that will either beat you to the punch , or come on the beach right after you , and they will be walking like they are walking a marathon !!.....The early bird gets the worm !!......Move it , or loose it !!.....You can always come back later for whatever you missed and bring your Sovereign to hunt in that respect ....Jim

 

[stasys]

Yeah, we showed em what the good ole Sovereign can do, and Minelab has responded .............In another couple of weeks Minelab has responded with a $200 increase in the price of the Sovereign to show their gratitude !!....and soon after that they will show you that they are really loving your support and they'll proabably pull the plug altogether once they clear the shelves of all the Sovereigns ...... Then if you want the Multiband Technology , you will be forking out over $1,000 for the cheapest machine ...... That's what happens when a company comes to America !!.....It's the American way !!...... Repair them here in the USA , and have them made overseas !!.... Dontcha just love when a plan comes together ? ..Jim

 

[Neil]

just to clarify something about fast reset detectors: I dont feel they have to be worked like in a comp hunt at all. The Advantage can be swung slow and also the F75 can be. Fisher recommends a fast sweep for best ID/depth but Ive found it will perform super even with slower swings when trying to weed out targets next to each other.
so "comp type hunting" or " racing around" doesnt have to be directly coupled to a fast resetting detector. But you also have that option