Nice day at the park turns bad!!!:(

[Josey Wales]

Well first of all, I'm not sure whether or not this is the proper place for this thread, but i wanted to post this here because I have been a member for a while and have read allot of post on the Minelab Explorer forum that people have written on here over time and kind of feel like Ive got to know some of you guys and just wanted to vent a little. Me and my son was off today to one of are favorite parks, one that we have hunted probably a zillion times. Its a nice park and real close to are house, which makes it nice. We live in the country so parks and towns are quit a distance from one to the other. We have meet allot of nice people at this park over the years, talked to the policemen cruising by, they would sometimes ask if we had done any good. Several years ago we were hunting and had the pleasure of talking to the grounds keeper. He was a elderly man who had taken care of the park for many years, very nice gentleman who even told us allot about the history of the park and gave us some tips to where some good spots should be, which over the years we have done really well, finding seated coins, indians, barbers and the like! And so comes today, a beautiful day to be spent doing something me and my son so dearly love. We have always practiced and taught proper metal detecting etiquette. If we see trash laying around the park we pick it up and put it in the dumpster, always use a ground cloth and fill in are holes. That's another thing I really don't like saying "digging a hole", its more like a plug, were not removing any dirt, we don't have piles of dirt all around! Anyway were at the park enjoying are self, we had been there around 20 minutes when I'm down recovering a target when I see someone in a van pulling up right beside me, driving right up in the grass, when i look up he is yelling something out his window but i cant understand what he is saying until i pull my headphones down, and this is what i head! YOU NEED TO STOP NOW! AND TAKE YOUR TOYS AND GET OUT OF HERE! I said excuse me sir? And he said we needed to get out of here immediately. I asked him what his name was and he told me and said that he was the person that mows and takes care of the park. I asked him were Mr. Forgrave was, he was the elderly gentlemen I was talking about who previously took care of the park. He said he retired and that he was the one in charge of taking care of the park. I tried to show this gentlemen as I pulled out a bunch of can slaw and pop tabs that we were helping by picking up the trash and disposing of it properly. He did not want to even try to listen, he was just rudely saying that we were leaving bare spots in the grass! I wasn't going to argue with him, this is southern Ohio and its spring time but I did point down where there was two big ruts about 10 feet long from a vehicle that had drove through the grass when it was muddy, but that didn't matter! It kinda just leaves you with a empty feeling or maybe better yet that feeling like you just got punched in the gut! Its hard to say much more.There's nothing in the city ordinance about no metal detecting, no signs at the park, nothing about it on the web. Just someone that doesn't like metal detectorists, I guess. I think maybe it would have not been so bad if the guy wasn't so rude. I can understand peoples concern about keeping the park nice, I'm one of those people! I could keep rambling but I just needed to vent, and I hope Bryce leaves this post on here I would like to here your guys thoughts, thanks Bob.

 

[sgoss66]

I would politely take your concerns to the Parks department of your municipality, and if that doesn't work, the city council or whomever the governing body is. If you respectfully present your case, and show that you, like others who use the park, are using public land to pursue YOUR hobby, and have done so for years and years with no issues. You can talk about your relationship with the past groundskeeper, and can show them some piles of junk you have picked up from there...

If you do this all respectfully, and ask that they permit you to continue your hobby, leaving them your cell phone number, etc. so that they can reach you if there is a problem, you may get somewhere. I'm sorry you were abused by this rude person.

Steve

 

[MNCoinhunter]

Sounds like someone who does'nt know or make the rules. I would call him on that and go over his head, not a shred of doubt in my mind.

 

[D Merc]

I was with my father when this fella approached him today. I overheard the gentleman say that my father would need permission from the head of the park directory. I tried to handle the situation by asking the gentleman for the phone number of the park director, he gave me the number and i quickly called the director; this was the conversation verbatum. I said hi my name is Mr. _______ and i live outside of town, my father and I were doing some detecting in the park today and a gentleman has approached us informing us that there is no metal detecting allowed in the park, he replied no metal detecting is allowed because there are too many areas of dead grass from people metal detecting. I replied My father and I have metal detected very responsibly in this park for years without any problems, he replied there has been no metal detecting allowed in this park for several years, and anything you find needs to be turned into the city because they are items that people have lost. I thought you have got to be kidding me, why on earth would I be detecting if I were not seeking items that people lost, do you wish for me to turn in these cans and this bag of pull tabs I have?!?! But I kept my cool and replied sir I have detected here for years and have not one time been approached by another grounds keeper nor have I seen it posted in the park rules that metal detecting is not allowed. I said sir I have not one objection to metal detecting not being allowed but there must be a sign warning myself and others of this rule. He muttered some reply about there needs not be a rule about digging in the park. And I said thank you for your time and hung up my phone. This is just my opinion but digging and being a responsible metal detectorist are two entirely different things. I have no idea how either of these men can instantly come to the conclusion that the spots of dead grass are from someone metal detecting, when animals (pets), cars, irresponsible adults (alcohol related litter), and athletes (must i mention metal spikes) are contantly in this park daily. And the worst part about the entire situation was how rudely and un-professionaly both of them handled the situation. Isn't it ironic that the person telling us to leave would drive his vehicle onto the grassy area that we are detecting in??? Anyway just telling you guys how it happened from my perspective. Chalk another great spot off the charts for me. I'm pretty beat up about this and I know my dad is very badly, but at least I know that we handled the situation the way a responsible adult should.

 

[TKNE33]

Hi I guess I'll add my 2 cents. I have had this happen to me as well. I called the local police dept. before I went to a particular park in my neighborhood and got the ok to detect. Well while I was detecting a guy drives onto the grass and starts b....ing at me. Well I ignored him using my headphones as my excuse to not hear him .Well he got closer with his truck and was using foul language. I took off my headphones,smiled and said ''hi how are ya.'' He started in again and I said what's the problem? He said he took care of the park and told me I couldn't dig any more holes. He then asked me who the hell I thought I was. i said I got permission to detect here.Isaid I'm doing a nice job retrieving my finds and not leaving a mess. I invited him to try and find a spot where I had retrieved a coin. He didn't seem to like my challenge. He then said how would you like it if I came to your house and dug holes all over. I then said well the city doesn't seem to have a problem with me doing this and my tax dollars keep this park operating. He then said he was going to go to the Police dept. and find out who gave me permission. Never heard from him again. My advice is...as long as it is LEGAL to detect where you are detecting then go ahead and detect. Just because someone does not like what you're doing doesn't mean you must stop. Make sure you follow all the MD'ING rules as far as taking your trash with you,no dirt laying around the holes,etc. This can mean the world to someone [police] if they happen to come upon you. No harm no foul kinda thing. Well this is my story and I'm sticking to it. Goo luck guys and enjoy the hobby. Kill them with kindness and if ever in doubt about a spot...ASK the proper authority. DIGSALLDAY

 

[JAN1]

Sounds like you are having the same jobsworths problems that we have over here.
I am fully expecting them to stop people detecting on the beaches. That would mean that people would stand on rusty nails and catch their feet on discarded and lost fishing tackle.

 

[Markdb61]

Wow sorry to hear this! I would talk with someone above that person.

 

[Critterhunter]

Sad to hear that but it's only going to happen at more and more places, especially when some in our hobby (not saying you, of course) don't see a image problem with using shovels or long handled diggers on public land. Some may feel they have the right to use whatever they want, but good luck trying to argue that with a cop when they kick them out of a place for good.

I was just at a park hunting the other day when I found a large plug that was open. Now, skunks and other animals love to open them back up looking for insects. I flipped it back in place and stomped on it real good. Have to put some good pressure on those plugs or they will open back up when lawn mowers are run over them, or as said animals get into them.

 

[diggingFx]

Definitely the last thing a guy wants to hear. I was scanning a sand playground when a little dried up turd walked by and said I wasnt supposed to be doing it. He kept walking as I asked him who he was and he told me he was the host of the nearby campgrounds. He had no authority. It all depends on the person. This guys job went straight to his head. I continue to scan the beach and sand lot anytime I want until the proper authority tells me otherwise which they wont since there is no law against it. here.The sand was unharmed. Perhaps your park groundskeeper has had problems with others, I have seen these bad detectorist and surely they leave bad impressions in turf. Confrontation especially sucks when your mind is at ease dirtfishin. Very uncomfortable situation. I would get some permission or just check local ordinance or complain about the guy. Sounds very rude, he could have been more polite. I might have just kept swingin.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Josey, you say:

"There's nothing in the city ordinance about no metal detecting, no signs at the park, nothing about it on the web"

Then if you ask me, I'd just avoid him in the future. I mean, certainly if he's a grounds-keeper, then he's probably got a slated schedule of only a day or two per week, for any on-site work? And on other days, shows up only to unlock the bathrooms in the AM, and close them again at night? Since he seems to be (according to what you've clearly said) the only person who says such a thing, Just figure out when his schedule is, and don't be there during those times. Problem solved.

Because, let's face it, our hobby has connotations. And let's face it: some people in authority might simply be "having a bad day". And if as you say there's nothing specific to prohibit detecting, then perhaps he's just a person to avoid, in the future. For example: if someone flips you off in traffic because they're in a bad mood and thought you did a poor lane change, do you stop driving? NO, you avoid that one person in the future. Because gauranteed: if you look long enough and hard enough, you can ALWAYS find someone in authority, down at city or county hall, to tell you "no", if you asked with the right combination of buzzwords ("treasure", "dig", "holes" "cultural heritage", etc...). If this bothers someone that not everyone is going to love them and their hobby, then perhaps they've chosen the wrong hobby.

It's gotten to where I do most of my park hunting a odd low-traffic times. Ie.: after 5pm, etc.... I mean CERTAINLY if I see the maintenance crew tending to a park on a certain day, or an archie convention going on there, I'm going to pick somewhere else to go.

If you choose to fight him, then you may only open up a can of worms which only further entrenches "no's" from even higher up the ladder (when experience clearly shows that ......... aside from this one guy ... no one has cared).

 

[Beyonder]

People make mistakes. Right or wrong, they will usually feel justified for making the decisions that they made. You go into a jail and ask them why they did what they did, 99% of the people there will feel they have a valid reason for doing what they did. Now, if you challenge their decision in any way or, try to justify your actions(they dont really care because their justification is more important than yours in their eyes) the will be on the defensive and then its game over.

I once got thrown out of a ball park with swings, because it was private. The guy came running at me screaming "who told you to do that? I'm gonna call the cops, this is my private property". Nothing was posted, and it was next to a state park, I thought it was part of it. Did I say this? No. I said, "I'm turning off my detector and I am leaving, right now". He said "okay".

So having said this, in your situation, you must realize: this guy is new, he has alot to prove, he really doesn't seem to competent ruining the grass he is supposed to be caring for, he may have been wanting this job for a long time, he may feel he will lose his job if you are there detecting, also, there may be alot of other factors here you dont see.

So whats next? I would mend fences, once people get to know you, and they dont feel threatened in any way, then all doors open. I might of said, "hey you know what, your right. I'm really sorry about this, are you the new grounds keeper here? Ah I see, i used to to know the former grounds keeper Mr. so and so..." He may have stood his ground, or he may have buckled. But don't let it stop there, Get to know him, and be friends. I bet though, that the number he gave you, he called 1st and gave the low down to his buddy.

I hope this helps, one last thing, I always have a back-up place to go.

Bey

 

[Hotcz70]

and for the exact same reasons he states.

Our rights in this hobby are dwindling fast...so why make them worse?

IF there is no ordinance...and IF nothing is posted...and IF there is nothing posted on the web,,,then this fellow has no right to tell you that you can't hunt.

He CAN make it a problem for you only if he sees you hunting there and decides to speak to someone with the proper authority to in fact begin the process of getting an ordinance passed and posted.

Like Tom...I feel you should continue to hunt but only after you try to get his schedule figured out and do your best to avoid him.

By doing this you are not sneaking around in any way nor should you feel as though you are doing something wrong because YOU have a right to be there doing exactly what you are doing. All you are trying to accomplish is avoiding this one person who has caused this problem for you.

All this being said I am a stickler about NOT hunting ANY site without obtaining proper permission from the correct person IF said permission is needed...but in your case according to what you have described....you do NOT need any permission.

PS: I will also need to move this post to the general metal detecting forum shortly...and you will get additional responses there too.

 

[Critterhunter]

If it's public land and there are no specific bans on detecting there or required permits or permission needed to hunt it then the worst thing you can do is ask some authority if you can hunt there. That just puts you in the spotlight and gives them the opportunity to say no. Often people in government say no to everything because they don't want their neck on the line when something goes bad.

I fly electric RC aircraft and a couple years ago we lost access to a large wide open public park to fly our planes. A group of about 20 to 30 of us would arrive early on a Sunday morning. These planes are electric, mind you, so very quiet compared to gas planes. We always flew in a large open corner of the park away from any people. If somebody started to wander our way we'd land the planes before they got close enough to be at risk. We followed strict guidelines with a flight line, only so many people in the air at once (usually 3 to 5 at a time), and so on.

One day a lady who lived in a house near the park came through the woods and started b*tching at us. We never flew our planes anywhere near her house, let alone over it. She just wanted to throw her weight around. Some of the guys in our informal club of RC pilots thought it might be a good idea to approach the park system and secure permission with permits or something to fly there on Sunday morning. I knew this was a bad idea. Never ask a question you might get the wrong answer to.

Sure enough, the park came back and told us we'd have to carry AMA insurance and carry a park permit. AMA is an RC plane insurance company. They are notorious for signing up private and public flying fields to their insurance and then nobody can fly at those fields without paying membership/insurance fees to them. The AMA is an old organization who's rules and structure apply mostly to gas planes of yesterday in my opinion. It's kind of overkill for somebody with a small electric plane that weighs less than a pound to have to pay them such a heavy fee to be covered.

Long story short the unofficial RC group we formed fell apart. Last I hear only 3 to 5 guys show up there to fly these days. The once thriving club message forum is now a ghost town. It's a shame. The sad thing is even the park rangers loved to come watch us fly every Sunday. They knew we didn't put other people in danger and stayed well out of the way of anybody else using the park. And it was a big park, with plenty of open space for all kinds of activities.

So my opinion is NEVER ask for permission to hunt public land so long as there are no specific rules banning detecting there. Just keep a low profile. Show up at slow times. Leave if people start coming around in any kind of numbers. Keep your back to people when you dig to hide the act as much as possible. One of the worst things I've seen is beach hunters zigging in, out, and around people who are sun bathing and trying to relax on the beach. That last thing those people want is you bothering them. It only takes one call to get it banned there. We arrive at a beach at sunrise, and we leave two or three hours later when people start showing up.

The best thing we can do to slow banning is to keep as low of a profile as possible, because we aren't going to win any arguments with the public or city authorities. I might disagree with them, but according to the government you don't have any "right" to metal detect or do a lot of things. Most activities, such as detecting or driving a car, are considered a privilege in their eyes that can be taken away at a moment's notice.

 

[Critterhunter]

Bryce, after my rant now it's REALLY time to move the thread.

 

[Josey Wales]

Thanks for all of the replies fellas. There is allot of things I've been thinking about and I agree with allot of the opinions on here, but one thing that really bothers me is I don't want to have the feeling as if I'm doing something wrong! Trying to detect and enjoy myself but just waiting for this guy or whoever to pop out somewhere and start rattling off again, its crazy! We should be able to enjoy this hobby and not trying to hide! Heck if that's the case maybe, we should just go in the middle of the night! Wait, can't do that, that's against park rules, its after dark! I kinda would like to discuss this in a town meeting, but I could almost tell you how that would go!

 

[Big Digger]

Yes this is sad and unfortunately will probably start happening more often. I recommend hunting at lower traffic hours like some of the others.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"IF there is no ordinance...and IF nothing is posted...and IF there is nothing posted on the web,,,then this fellow has no right to tell you that you can't hunt."

Right: If there's no *specific* prohibitions saying "no metal detecting", then .........doh, there's no prohibitions! No need to ask "permission". No more so than you'd need to ask permission to fly a frisbee. But does this mean that since a park has no specific prohibitions, that you & I can waltz over people's beach blankets and thumb our noses at people who object? NO, of course not. Sometimes in life a little discretion is involved. Because even though that one person may be wrong, yet they can make a flap that brings scrutiny on you and the hobby. So even though you may be in the right (assuming you're not being a nuisance in some other way), there are still persons that, let's face it, we need avoid, or give lip-service to.

I have actually heard of persons who got a single encounter like this, from a single person, at a single location. (who knows? a cop who was obliged to answer a busy-bodies call?) And the md'r gets alarmed thinking "oh no, there's a new rule" or "I can't detect anymore", etc.... So what do they do? They go fight it! They seek clarifications from higher and higher up the ladder. And you can guess what happens: they collect more "no's" from desk-bound bureaucrats, that ... quite frankly .... probably never gave the matter thought before, nor would have ever cared or noticed if they'd passed you on the street. But in-lieu of your "pressing question", give the easy answer. The danger of this becomes: guess what's going to happen when those same persons see other md'rs in the park, thereafter? They'll remember the earlier inquiry, and start booting others! I've seen this happen, in places where no one ever cared before. Then the md'r ends up wishing he'd just avoided *just* that one park, or *just* that one person, instead of getting his whole town with a new rule or "clarification" or policy or whatever.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"one thing that really bothers me is I don't want to have the feeling as if I'm doing something wrong! "

Yes, some people have a problem with this "staying discreet" admonition. They feel that it's like "sneaking around". I can sympathize with this. Everyone has a "caution level" and "risk assesment". We are all different in this regard. Some fear authority more than others (simply can't handle someone telling them "scram"). While others are more carefree and laugh that off. I hate to say it, but if you intend to hunt park turf, you're going to have be of the latter mindset, and develope a bit of a thick skin. Because to think you're going to get "signed off" to hunt at park turf, with permission slips & blessings from the mayors, etc.... is going to be very difficult. No doubt some people have gotten "permission" like that (as if it was needed). But if you ask me, it simply means that they didn't ask with the right combinations of buzzwords. You know, like were you be sure to mention "holes" , "arpa", "treasure", "dig" and "indian artifacts"? So anyone who gets a "yes", simply has not given the full mental picture to whomever they were asking, and didn't go high enough up the ladder.

So ... seems to me ... it'd be hard to be a hardcore park turf hunter (chasing the deepies, going to the older parks, etc...) if you are of the more skittish personality type.

 

[mudpuppy]

Maybe its because I used to trap. You had to get in and out of certain locations early and fast and leave no trace, just to avoid giving the sport a bad name, and having gear get ripped off or vandalized. You dont want folks to see a fox bouncing around along the roadway or things like that. There is no logical argueing with a PETA prone person on the values and benefits of trapping! Even with permission on private land, State land, roadside ditches and culverts, it just makes good sense to never be seen by anyone. I know this is tough to do with our sport, since we are out in the daytime in parks and whatnot, its probably good practice not to stay too long at any given location and time it appropriately. I do however enjoy this aspect of our sport! Timing it to get the hunt in, the goods out, and not be seen. Never let what some stranger thinks about you affect the way you think about yourself!
Mud

 

[Elton]

But Please............ don't let them turn our hobby into a thing we have to sneak around and do..

We need to fight the bans, fight the attitudes from others who think we are doing wrong. Not go into hiding, and crawl in, and crawl out..

It comes to that we all better just quit................ Either that , or while were in the woods "Sneaking" around brew up a batch of Shine.........that requires sneaking in and out, and not getting caught too.

I don't want to feel like I'm doing wrong..looking to see if I offend someone doing my Hobby DO you ??. Stand up, let it be known you want access to parks or what ever and fight for that right.

[size=x-large]Don't become a SNEAK !!!!!!!!!!!!!![/size] [size=large]Don't be a Lilly livered , belly crawling ,sneaking egg sucking Dog..........Stand up, fight for the right........[/size]

Just think....... I'm going to sneak into the park, and sneak out before anyone gets there, and then I'm going to sneak over to the school, and sneak around, Hide what I'm doing, and then sneak out..

[size=x-large]How's that sound?..[/size] Not too good hu ?????????????????????