Blank Planet
New member
if they have made a PI machine with VLF discrimination that would be a brake through for sure.
BP
BP
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
New Minelab Coming in less than then an hour and counting... (Just press the Minelab Banner above on forum..)
- Thread starter earthmansurfer
- Start date
Blank Planet
New member
22hrs we will be put out of our misery 
BP
BP
-----I'm having too much fun hearin about the "I heards". 
earthmansurfer
Active member
3D Detector, oh please go on...
We need the title updated Raymo... Every hour please and the for the last hour, every minute and then...
Hoping for a general use machine which was alluded to in the ad.
We need the title updated Raymo... Every hour please and the for the last hour, every minute and then...
Hoping for a general use machine which was alluded to in the ad.
Blank Planet
New member
someone on the xterra forum was sayin that they are hard to find new the 705 so maybe that is a clue and goes with that add earthmansurfer was referring too.
BP
BP
The X.Terra's are out of stock due to the demand for prospecting machines in the gold rush in Africa.
The add that is going on is too big an add for an X.Terra due to the demand for an ET replacement which in Britain everyone is moaning about. If its an X.Terra that will be nice but it will
upset to many and the Deus rush will continue ! on the other hand it may be an entire new breed ?
The add that is going on is too big an add for an X.Terra due to the demand for an ET replacement which in Britain everyone is moaning about. If its an X.Terra that will be nice but it will
upset to many and the Deus rush will continue ! on the other hand it may be an entire new breed ?
earthmansurfer
Active member
I agree Nuke em. By general use I was talking about an E-Trac type machine.
I know Minelab is working on a PI unit but answer this, what would sell more, a new E-Trac type machine or a PI unit with some iron disc? I think as great as the second one is it is still specialized for the relic market. I highly doubt they could invent a PI unit with Disc that also gave accurate VID readings. If they did then it's a whole new game.
They are a company and the Deus and other light units have been cutting into sales for around 2 years now in Europe. If this unit isn't something to right the ship then Minelab made a boo boo, unless it's right around the corner.
I know Minelab is working on a PI unit but answer this, what would sell more, a new E-Trac type machine or a PI unit with some iron disc? I think as great as the second one is it is still specialized for the relic market. I highly doubt they could invent a PI unit with Disc that also gave accurate VID readings. If they did then it's a whole new game.
They are a company and the Deus and other light units have been cutting into sales for around 2 years now in Europe. If this unit isn't something to right the ship then Minelab made a boo boo, unless it's right around the corner.
I started a thread on another forum over a year ago, asking Minelab's R&D people to offer a cut back feature pulse machine....basically take one or two of the more popular timings on the GPX, and the iron disc feature...and put it in an affordable price range pulse detector. They said the market wasn't big enough for that specific of a genre of detectors. If this is indeed what that is....I will be happy and disappointed at the same time. Happy because the depth of a GPX is unequaled in ALL soil types....and sad because they could have at least dropped a private message hint that it was coming down the pike 
That thread generated quite a bit of talk and showed them that indeed people were wanting such a machine.
With that kind of machine, for those that have never used them....they don't have visual ID but have tone ID....high and low tones....basically the high conductive targets give a LOW tone and low conductive targets give a HIGH tone...and iron is a broken up, none smooth signal. Even if nothing else were added to this....what this would mean for you coin hunting people is this....you could still have a form of discrimination.....I.E....tone ID....and be capable of silver dime targets down to 15-20 inches in any ground condition. From my playing with a GPX....anything above pull tab range will give the LOW tone for high conductive targets....i.e. all US coins except nickels. I could still get a silver dime buried at 9 inches with my GPX cut back to a setting of 1 on the gain...which is as low as it will go....with a 6x10 elliptical DD coil...in red Tennessee dirt. Most VLFs here can't do that with gain running near wide open with 11-15 inch coils.....some can get a signal but they all ID the coin as IRON. The pulse machine still gave a low tone, signifying that it knew it was still high conductive.
So a pulse machine like that, AS IS, would be a huge improvement for you coin guys if looking for extreme depth. I'm curious to see what it is myself. We will know in a few short hours. How many want to take bets on how long it takes somebody to buy one and have it listed in the classifieds?
That thread generated quite a bit of talk and showed them that indeed people were wanting such a machine.With that kind of machine, for those that have never used them....they don't have visual ID but have tone ID....high and low tones....basically the high conductive targets give a LOW tone and low conductive targets give a HIGH tone...and iron is a broken up, none smooth signal. Even if nothing else were added to this....what this would mean for you coin hunting people is this....you could still have a form of discrimination.....I.E....tone ID....and be capable of silver dime targets down to 15-20 inches in any ground condition. From my playing with a GPX....anything above pull tab range will give the LOW tone for high conductive targets....i.e. all US coins except nickels. I could still get a silver dime buried at 9 inches with my GPX cut back to a setting of 1 on the gain...which is as low as it will go....with a 6x10 elliptical DD coil...in red Tennessee dirt. Most VLFs here can't do that with gain running near wide open with 11-15 inch coils.....some can get a signal but they all ID the coin as IRON. The pulse machine still gave a low tone, signifying that it knew it was still high conductive.
So a pulse machine like that, AS IS, would be a huge improvement for you coin guys if looking for extreme depth. I'm curious to see what it is myself. We will know in a few short hours. How many want to take bets on how long it takes somebody to buy one and have it listed in the classifieds?
Critterhunter
New member
First, the big "D" isn't a replacement for a Minelab. It's depth (compared to a Minelab) and VDI reliability isn't all that stellar from what I've been reading. It's only read strength is being a fast machine so you can swing faster in heavy iron without as much risk of missing targets, but unmasking is a non-issue with slow machines so long as you keep your sweep speed slow like you should. Besides, there are plenty of fast machines on the market for 1/3rd the cost. Yea, it's light...But other than the wireless headphones I don't really see much of a perk with being all wireless. I mean, how many times have you been hunting and said "I sure wish there wasn't a coil cable going from the coil to the control box because that would make my hunts so much more enjoyable"? Besides, being wireless in that respect just adds to the cost of the coils and also brings up the big question of just how waterproof the coil is since you have to charge the battery. I doubt it's really hurt Minelab sales that much at all.
Anyway, back to the topic...I was skimming over the patent information and if I'm reading it right (??? Didn't read it all...Just skimmed, so I could be very wrong) it sounds like the machine's main ability is handling extreme mineralization that even the current Minelabs sometimes have problems with such as the red iron rich clay in VA and such.
But here's my main point about those specs...Again, if I'm reading what I skimmed right...It sounds like the machine has a very unique ability to compensate for severe ground minerals that no other machine I'm aware of has. It looks like it makes reference to having the ability to analyze the ground minerals via the received signal, and then ADJUST the nature of the output (transmitted signal) that's being projected into the ground to get around penetration issues and the "glare" or reflection that would be generated by the wrong frequencies being used.
If that's true then that is indeed a leap in technology, because the transmit signal on most machines is pretty much static an unable to be changed...Other than a few machines out there that can change the power of the signal being sent into the ground (which is a highly suspect ability in my opinion. Never heard of any benefits to being able to do that). As most people know your sensitivity adjustment on most machines doesn't effect the transmit signal, but rather adjusts the gain (amplification) of the received signal from the coil.
The specs for this thing, however, seem to imply that it changes the very nature of just what type of signal (frequencies) are being projected into the ground. As we all know certain frequencies penetrate certain ground minerals better than others. As a general rule of thumb, the higher the frequency the more trouble it has with penetration or potential for reflection off of certain ground minerals, which can cause ground "glare" or that fog in the headlights blinding thing theory that's often talked about in detecting circles. If it has the ability to turn off certain frequencies and turn on others by seeing which ones will penetrate the ground matrix better than that's very unique and would be a big step up in detecting technology.
As far as I know even the Noise Cancel function on Minelabs doesn't change the nature of the output signal, but rather it changes which frequencies the machine pays attention to on the receiving end of things. It also doesn't pick those frequencies to watch based on their reaction with ground minerals, but rather it picks the frequencies that have less EMI (Electrical Mechanical Noise) on them. That's why Minelab says to keep the coil a foot off the ground when noise canceling, because it's weeding out the channels with noise on them rather than analyzing the ground content to select which frequencies work best for the minerals in that soil.
It isn't just about the general rule of higher frequencies being more prone to mineral reflection, but also that certain frequencies (high or low) have trouble with certain types of minerals in the soil. Being able to change the very nature of what is transmitted would be deadly, at least in certain rare situations where the ground matrix is so bad.
Anyway, it's all in good fun to speculate, and I'm probably wrong and inferred the wrong thing from those patent specs...But that's my best stab in the dark.
Again, I'm thinking that there won't be any real need to sell off your current Minelab in most moderate to even heavy mineralization. It might be that that machine's abilities only show themselves in the worst of the worst in terms of very rare sites and soils that even current Minelabs have trouble with. Where as in most soils (mineralized or not) the current line up of machines will get just as deep and ID just as good.
Anyway, back to the topic...I was skimming over the patent information and if I'm reading it right (??? Didn't read it all...Just skimmed, so I could be very wrong) it sounds like the machine's main ability is handling extreme mineralization that even the current Minelabs sometimes have problems with such as the red iron rich clay in VA and such.
But here's my main point about those specs...Again, if I'm reading what I skimmed right...It sounds like the machine has a very unique ability to compensate for severe ground minerals that no other machine I'm aware of has. It looks like it makes reference to having the ability to analyze the ground minerals via the received signal, and then ADJUST the nature of the output (transmitted signal) that's being projected into the ground to get around penetration issues and the "glare" or reflection that would be generated by the wrong frequencies being used.
If that's true then that is indeed a leap in technology, because the transmit signal on most machines is pretty much static an unable to be changed...Other than a few machines out there that can change the power of the signal being sent into the ground (which is a highly suspect ability in my opinion. Never heard of any benefits to being able to do that). As most people know your sensitivity adjustment on most machines doesn't effect the transmit signal, but rather adjusts the gain (amplification) of the received signal from the coil.
The specs for this thing, however, seem to imply that it changes the very nature of just what type of signal (frequencies) are being projected into the ground. As we all know certain frequencies penetrate certain ground minerals better than others. As a general rule of thumb, the higher the frequency the more trouble it has with penetration or potential for reflection off of certain ground minerals, which can cause ground "glare" or that fog in the headlights blinding thing theory that's often talked about in detecting circles. If it has the ability to turn off certain frequencies and turn on others by seeing which ones will penetrate the ground matrix better than that's very unique and would be a big step up in detecting technology.
As far as I know even the Noise Cancel function on Minelabs doesn't change the nature of the output signal, but rather it changes which frequencies the machine pays attention to on the receiving end of things. It also doesn't pick those frequencies to watch based on their reaction with ground minerals, but rather it picks the frequencies that have less EMI (Electrical Mechanical Noise) on them. That's why Minelab says to keep the coil a foot off the ground when noise canceling, because it's weeding out the channels with noise on them rather than analyzing the ground content to select which frequencies work best for the minerals in that soil.
It isn't just about the general rule of higher frequencies being more prone to mineral reflection, but also that certain frequencies (high or low) have trouble with certain types of minerals in the soil. Being able to change the very nature of what is transmitted would be deadly, at least in certain rare situations where the ground matrix is so bad.
Anyway, it's all in good fun to speculate, and I'm probably wrong and inferred the wrong thing from those patent specs...But that's my best stab in the dark.
Again, I'm thinking that there won't be any real need to sell off your current Minelab in most moderate to even heavy mineralization. It might be that that machine's abilities only show themselves in the worst of the worst in terms of very rare sites and soils that even current Minelabs have trouble with. Where as in most soils (mineralized or not) the current line up of machines will get just as deep and ID just as good.
Critterhunter
New member
By the way, I've got a suspicion to share (Again, probably totally off base)....Many of us have been awaiting anxiously for many weeks for Bryce's update on the new 13" coil and his comparisons of it to the 12x10 in terms of depth and separation. I think he said he's been busy with his job as well as working out at a gym if I remember right? Now I think what he's really been up to is field testing this new machine. Anybody else suspect the same thing now?
What I "suspect" that is hardly ANYBODY knew much about this new machine (including dealers) until lately as it was kept under such "tight wraps".-----It will be field tested soon (by several people).-----Also we will all know much more about the "product" this evening.-------Relax a little Critterhunter---if you can. -----------Del
-----------Del
Critterhunter said:
Critterhunter
New member
Read the links to the patent, if indeed that's the machine coming out. Probably totally wrong in what I said since I only skimmed over it and it's rather technical but who knows? But yea, I should probably tone it down a little. Sorry. It is fun to speculate, though, and read other's stabs in the dark about what they think too. 
It is fun to speculate, though, and read other's stabs in the dark about what they think too. No apology needed my friend, I was just pokin a "funnin" at ya! ------Totally agree with you in that it's an exciting time when any "top of the liner" comes out.---That's why the manufacturers put out these "teasers"---to fuel the excitement, speculation (AND INTEREST). 
------Totally agree with you in that it's an exciting time when any "top of the liner" comes out.---That's why the manufacturers put out these "teasers"---to fuel the excitement, speculation (AND INTEREST).
Critterhunter said:Read the links to the patent, if indeed that's the machine coming out. Probably totally wrong in what I said since I only skimmed over it and it's rather technical but who knows? But yea, I should probably tone it down a little. Sorry.