Metal detecting on TVA operated public beach acess points?

[KinTN]

Yes Tom, I have since talked to a former TVA officer who said there were 2 recent confiscations and charges on Douglas Lake during drawdown. Apparantly those 2 guys were actually doing what TVA claims it is worried about- carrying/using a MD as a sham while hunting indian relics. Sucks that people that aren't even MDers are used as an excuse.

How did it get this way? Not enough clout in the MD community + goobermint employees that believe they are better than everyone else. We (the MD community in east TN where TVA is hq'd) spoke often and at length to everyone who would listen at TVA, but it was obvious that they had decided internally well before the review period was over. (if you didn't know, TVA had a permit system in place, allowed all outstanding 2 yr permits to expire, then ruled No More). If you are asking how the permit system came to be, I don't know. l left the state for a couple of decades and it was in place when I came back- and before that I never detected TVA lands.

One other point that I don't think you know: these relic cops are LOW. There are stories everywhere of them hiding in the bushes along the banks, shadowing people walking along a drawdown and watching for them to pick up a pebble and not put it down. If you put it in your pocket, they pounce and god help you if its an arrowhead. In theory, you are not even allowed to keep it if its a fn pebble! Now think about that for a moment..........................and realize that the local Knoxville Rock and Mineral Club holds at least 2 formal hunts a year on drawndown lakes to gather mineral samples. Well publicized, and never a peep from TVA about it. I don't have all the answers as to Why except that Its The Damn Government and they do what they please. Stop asking me to make sense of it.

As for local exceptions occurring when intelligent detectorists ask permission from sensible park managers, I have already answered with my opinion on that so I see no need to repeat myself. Reread my posts if you actually want to know instead of just xhitstirring.

And my offer to show you around the TVA lake hotspots that are verboten stands. Otherwise, please stop encouraging strangers to break our laws and stir up more crap here. We're fighting (our MD community here hasn't quit on this) an uphill battle as it is.

 

[KinTN]

I know, Grunter. Hopefully by continuing intelligent discussions between TVA and detectorists, we can influence the right people and show them we are responsible stewards. Harder to do when you have inbred outlaws illegally digging/leaving huge holes in parks and internet rabble rousers that don't have a dog in the fight egging them on.

[size=x-small](btw, my name isn't Ken)[/size]

 

[Fletch88]

KinTN is right on this one Tom. I have a friend in TN who happens to be a metal detector dealer. It's all OFF LIMITS. Land or water

 

[goldnugget]

They used to Issue a Permit about 5 or more years ago., I think it used to cost about $ 5.00. Now all TVA Water Area are closed off. Its a shame because the TVA flooded alot of small Towns. Maybe they don't want you to find any Arrowheads.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

And what does that tell you about "permits" ? MD'rs eyes alway seem to wax romantic in favor of permits. On the surface, permits sound like a GREAT idea, don't they? They conjur up images of being able to detect nilly-willy, blah blah. If anyone gripes, you just whip out the "permit", and they slink away embarassed for ever having questioned you. Right ?

But NNNEEOOOHHH. They're always riddled with silly things like "yes but you can't dig", or "not within 10 ft. of a tree", or "digger tool shall not exceed 3", blah blah blah blah. And any place that ever had or has permits, is always-ever-more at risk at having them revoked permanently. Why? Because the mere fact that there is a "permit" involved (as if it needs someone's princely blessing and permission), simply means it is ever-more on their radar continually, as something that needs scrutiny and review. Eg.: every year, at their annual meetings, when the various permits, revenues, etc... i'ts re-considered. Ever-more in front of their review. And sure as sh^t, you can bet that some archie is going to put in his .02c and wonder "gee, do we really want all these yahoos running around taking/disturbing our cultural heritage?"

So as you can see, it was/is as I said before: The LESS attention, the better. Not the MORE attention, the better.

 

[KinTN]

And what does that tell you about "permits" ? MD'rs eyes alway seem to wax romantic in favor of permits. On the surface, permits sound like a GREAT idea, don't they? They conjur up images of being able to detect nilly-willy, blah blah. If anyone gripes, you just whip out the "permit", and they slink away embarassed for ever having questioned you. Right ?

But NNNEEOOOHHH. They're always riddled with silly things like "yes but you can't dig", or "not within 10 ft. of a tree", or "digger tool shall not exceed 3", blah blah blah blah. And any place that ever had or has permits, is always-ever-more at risk at having them revoked permanently. Why? Because the mere fact that there is a "permit" involved (as if it needs someone's princely blessing and permission), simply means it is ever-more on their radar continually, as something that needs scrutiny and review. Eg.: every year, at their annual meetings, when the various permits, revenues, etc... i'ts re-considered. Ever-more in front of their review. And sure as sh^t, you can bet that some archie is going to put in his .02c and wonder "gee, do we really want all these yahoos running around taking/disturbing our cultural heritage?"

So as you can see, it was/is as I said before: The LESS attention, the better. Not the MORE attention, the better.

Maybe so in a situation where there hasn't been a history. But that's not what is being discussed here. Pls refer to the OP to stay on topic.

 

[hershey1]

All I got to say is I hunt and talk to the TVA police at most areas I hunt. By the way now is a good time because they (TVA) are dropping the water in most reservoirs. I have never heard of TVA taking any property from anyone for hunting, fishing, metal detecting, boating, hiking or anything else that the public enjoys. Maybe I have been lucky. I was told by a friend to keep on doing what I always have done until TVA has some new rules in place. And by the way their permits were free. HH

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Now isn't this interesting? haha. Such was the same thing that happened at a particular fed. beach here in CA. Rumor had always had it that it was off-limits. And .. sure .... I suppose if you looked long enough and hard enough at the minutia, you could probably find something that actually said that.

However, a newbie who simply didn't know any better, went detecting there. He did well enough that he kept going. And going. And going. As he got better and better, his tallies increased to upwards of 100+ coins per day, any-day he cared to go, around/along the towel line. And gold rings popping up now and then.

Eventually he began to wonder "gee, why aren't the locals 'all over this' ?" Because by then he began to be aware that there were/are other hobbyists in his area. So he couldn't understand why the others didn't work this. Even though it was just clad, it was prolific enough, and enough gold rings had surfaced, that it seemed odd. But he wasn't complaining!

This went on for about 6 months. Eventually, he let down his guard and told a few other hobbyists where his "honey hole" was. Imagine his surprise, when they said "gee, isn't that place off limits?". He assumed they must be mistaken. I mean, doh, why would ANY beach be "off-limits"? How can you harm a beach for pete's sake? Besides: He'd gone 1 or 2x per week now, for many many months. No one had ever said so much as "boo" to him. Therefore those who were telling him it was off-limits, must be mistaken.

But the more he looked into it, the more he began to realize that what they were telling him *might* be true. However, even waltzing right by manned lifeguard towers, even having ranger jeeps pass right by him, and going in broad daylight, no one had ever done so much as have a friendly wave to him! So now he's in a dilema: Does he just keep on going, since it's painfully obvious no one cares? Could you blame him if he did ? Doh !

 

[KinTN]

Now isn't this interesting? haha. Such was the same thing that happened at a particular fed. beach here in CA. Rumor had always had it that it was off-limits. And .. sure .... I suppose if you looked long enough and hard enough at the minutia, you could probably find something that actually said that.

However, a newbie who simply didn't know any better, went detecting there. He did well enough that he kept going. And going. And going. As he got better and better, his tallies increased to upwards of 100+ coins per day, any-day he cared to go, around/along the towel line. And gold rings popping up now and then.

Eventually he began to wonder "gee, why aren't the locals 'all over this' ?" Because by then he began to be aware that there were/are other hobbyists in his area. So he couldn't understand why the others didn't work this. Even though it was just clad, it was prolific enough, and enough gold rings had surfaced, that it seemed odd. But he wasn't complaining!

This went on for about 6 months. Eventually, he let down his guard and told a few other hobbyists where his "honey hole" was. Imagine his surprise, when they said "gee, isn't that place off limits?". He assumed they must be mistaken. I mean, doh, why would ANY beach be "off-limits"? How can you harm a beach for pete's sake? Besides: He'd gone 1 or 2x per week now, for many many months. No one had ever said so much as "boo" to him. Therefore those who were telling him it was off-limits, must be mistaken.

But the more he looked into it, the more he began to realize that what they were telling him *might* be true. However, even waltzing right by manned lifeguard towers, even having ranger jeeps pass right by him, and going in broad daylight, no one had ever done so much as have a friendly wave to him! So now he's in a dilema: Does he just keep on going, since it's painfully obvious no one cares? Could you blame him if he did ? Doh !

Assuming that's all true (no verification method that I can think of here; whereas you can check with TVA or the local Knoxville TN MD club to verify everything that's pertinent to the OP re TVA lands detecting) its a very cute story. Aside from the noob mistake of telling the public of his hot spot, sounds like things worked out for that guy. I honestly hope that continues- our hobby doesn't need anymore legal run-ins. Nothing good ever comes from them,

I've never detected the area you are talking about so I cant have an informed opinion on it. And its important to have an Informed opinion before knowingly breaking published laws. My offer stands whenever you want to detect TVA sites........

 

[GeorgeinSC]

Read It For Yourself Tom.

http://www.tva.gov/river/landandshore/culturalresources/faq.htm

When You take Up Ken's offer I will take you up to Hatteras Island and let you detect the National Sea shore.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

hey there, you and KinTN seem to think that I'm disagreeing that it's not against the rules. Or that I debating that it is, in fact, legal. That is not the point of what I'm saying. I have NO DOUBT that it might, in fact, be illegal. And no doubt, your link to those FAQ's came about by md'rs in the past sending in inquiries to them "Can I metal detect?". And I have no doubt that .... now as you can see, a *specific* "no" came about.

SO TOO was/is it probablyl for the particular fed. beach I'm speaking of here in CA. The ingredients may be exactly the same. SO TOO could anyone probably chastise that md'r, by showing him the chapter & verse of how it's not allowed. My only point was that there are, believe it or not, some places that you can find dire sounding wording, and yet .... well ........

A difference here though, is that perhaps the fed beach I'm speaking of is only supposedly a no-no, d/t "cultural heritage" wording. Versus what you have there, is a specific and distinct "no". And I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind and go looking for trouble. But just found it odd that hershey could detect there, unbothered, and no one ever said so much as "boo" to him.

 

[mudpuppy]

Just be ready you TVA boys when those old dams blow out, which they will eventually do...dont let these laws push you around or waste your time trying to get them repealed...Take your chances and hunt!

That Gary Larson cartoon showing two guys fishing with mushroom clouds in the background also applies to us......"I'll tell you what this means, no size restrictions, and screw the limit!"

Mud

 

[KinTN]

Tom, George and I are still waiting on you to plan your hunts on verboten federale lands. Then you can have some 1st hand stories to tell of how ignoring/flaunting fedlaw works out for you. I will be happy to post the resulting confrontations on Youtube so all can see and make their own INFORMED decision. Unfortunately I wont be able to record inside a federal courtroom, so maybe we can just post the transcripts of the fallout.


Seriously, are you so narrowminded that you don't see the difference between well known/posted federal laws and beaches where there are no specific local regs?

 

[KinTN]

as to Hershey detecting, if you ever bothered to do more than skim my posts, you would have seen that I too have detected a couple of parks on TVA lands.
WITH PERMISSION from the local park manager, as the regs allow.

See, treating managers respectfully by asking permission, AS THE REGS PROVIDE FOR, instead of acting like a confrontational Ahat all the time can pay off.

 

[KinTN]

Mud, that one of my favorite Far Sides! The other is the one where the dog is being taken for a ride to the vet to get Tutored.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

as to Hershey detecting, if you ever bothered to do more than skim my posts, you would have seen that I too have detected a couple of parks on TVA lands.
WITH PERMISSION from the local park manager, as the regs allow.

See, treating managers respectfully by asking permission, AS THE REGS PROVIDE FOR, instead of acting like a confrontational Ahat all the time can pay off.

KinTN,

I just found this, which you would find as ... no doubt .... a clear answer, on this matter.

http://www.tva.gov/river/landandshore/culturalresources/faq.htm

Look down to the 4th paragraph. Clear as day: "No metal detecting". And as you can see, this page is totally in the context of "historical" and "archaeological" and "arpa" and so forth. However, it's making no distinction here for if you were only hunting modern objects. And I have no doubt that such a statement came about .... as this link suggests, as an "FAQ" ("frequently asked questions"). If enough of the same question gets asked, it then becomes "frequently" asked, as the name suggests. And ....... then guess what the safe answer will be? Therefore bless their little hearts, all those that went before us "frequently asking", eh ?

I never doubted there was probably some rule that could be "morphed", or in this case, specific as heck But now ask yourself: Seeing as how several persons on this thread, yourself included, have detected there ....... how can this be? Some simply didn't know any better, I suppose. In your case you say you "got permission". But how can anyone "get permission" to break a law? For example: If you, right now, went down to the highway patrol office and "asked permission" to break the speed limit, what do you think they would tell you? Or if you asked permission from the police to shoplift? Or asked permission from the IRS to cheat on your taxes? NATURALLY they would tell you "no". Why? Because NO ONE can authorize anyone else to "break laws", can they?

So the mere fact that anyone's "gotten permission" to do this dastardly thing, then ... to me, that tells me right off the bat that this is a little bit more "fluid" than the death-penalty offence you're making it out to be. AGAIN: I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind, or go ask archie's silly questions (where you'll get the text-book "because you asked" answer), I'm just sayin'

 

[GeorgeinSC]

I will throw a little more fuel on the fire. I live just outside of Charleston South Carolina. I discovered that detecting is not allowed in any of the Charleston County parks except the three that are on the beaches. I was researching an old map and found that there was structure located on the property that is now a city park. Structure was there back in the earl y 1800's. Happened to take a look at the park web site and found that detecting is prohibited.

Was talking to a friend and found out that The City Of Charleston also prohibits Metal Detecting on any of the city owned property. Talked to a guy and found out that he had Paid a $50.00 Fine for detecting in one of the city parks.

Yes I had been on City Property detecting but personally have no desire to give the Danged Politicians any more money than what I have to. I no longer detect on Charleston County or City property where detecting is not allowed by Law.

In my area the Archeologists are afraid that we that metal detect might find something and they will not get it. Of course they have the ear of the local politicians.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

...... Yes I had been on City Property detecting ........

What? And no $50 fine ? And the person you know who go that (whopping) $50 fine: what were they doing? tromping around wearing bright orange in broad daylight during an archie convention?

Mind you: Charleston is a .... uh .... bit more "historic" (yes, a senstive monunent type place) . Ie.: a bit more of an eye-sore than boring dreary reservoirs of modern invention and make.

 

[KinTN]

Tom, you can jailhouse lawyer all you want but people get fined and in federal TVA cases have CRIMINAL records for the things you are telling people to do. This is Irresponsible and not an adult thing to do. I have even heard people say that you are some detectorist hater yourself for trying to get hobbyists into legal trouble. [size=x-small](which I don't believe, but you really do need to step back and take a look at your behavior).[/size] You may hate the government or its increasing control of our lives, but even in that case, the smart thing to do is to fight the battles that matter. If md'ing is your idea of that, you Really need some introspection time.

(btw, theres a reason that the term jailhouse lawyer is so fitting- the people doing the 'brain'storming are in or on their way to jail.)

I'll repeat myself once again: come on over here anytime and i'll show you some great TVA beaches and lands you can detect. And I will personally load the results onto youtube for all to see the results. Including if the officers wish you luck.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

As one would suspect there are some Civil War (Recent Unpleasantness) relics to be found in the Charleston SC area. The Archeologists get quite upset when some one with a Metal Detector finds something like a Slave Tag or other valuable relic.

Those in the Archeology Profession have the ear of the Politicians and when they complain Loud and Long the Politicians pass laws prohibiting metal detecting on County/City properties. And since we that Metal Detect do not have the same voice with the Politicians about all we can do is either break the law, risking fines, or find other places to detect.

You should have heard the Screaming from the Politicians and Archeologists when an individual with a metal detector found three slave tags at a closed school. The tags wound up on E-Bay and the furor from the Archeologists and local Politicians was unbelievable.

I personally do not intentionally risk getting fined or losing my detector by "Trespassing" on properties where metal detecting is prohibited. My Budget does not contain enough dollars to be giving money to some lousy Politician.