Metal detecting in city owned parks

[BlackX]

I don't want to get arrested.

"Regulations governing the use of metal detectors on Massachusetts State Forests and Parks property:

CMR 304 12.11

No Person shall use or offer to use metal detectors on Department property except at the discretion of the area Supervisor on designated swimming beaches and designated campsites. The Director may issue a special use permit authorizing archaeologically-related or geologically related activities."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Magic man, "state parks" aside for the moment (since you direct your comments to city manager, so I would assume you're talking city parks), you say: "Better off checking, then getting a ticket or landing in jail." Can you cite any incidents of this happening, in city parks that are innocuous non-historic monument type places? I mean, for the average Joe Blow city park, not posted, can you please cite me any incidents of tickets or jail? My suspicion is that you can't. There are a few incidents floating around on some internet thread (the Houstan thing), but my response to that is, that 1) it will get thrown out (there was simply nothing suggesting a person should've known, if they were never warned, and it wasn't posted, and they weren't making a mess or being a nuisance). Or, 2) any incidents are so extremely rare, as to be ridiculous. I mean, if everyone reads of the Houstan incident (which, as I say, will just be thrown out anyways), and thinks this means they are in danger of tickets or jail, means you base your life on extreme exceptions, not on norms. That would be like hearing of a driver who got roughed up & jailed by overzealous cops, for a simple tail light infraction, and thinking "oh no! I better not drive anymore!" Or "maybe I need permission to drive now!" rather than see the situation for what it is: an exception that is a fluke.

There was a time, when ... on internet forums, someone would cite fears of jail or tickets, and I'd ask them the same thing: "Cite me an incident of such a thing". And EVERY time, none were forthcoming. Or if they could find something, it was guys night sneaking historic monuments, or persons who couldn't take a warning, etc... Now I do admit, a few odd stories circulate, but as I say, they are the extreme exception. I've detected at parks in any city I come to, and never "ask permission" Yet I've never had a ticket or jail (wow, imagine that). I don't consider myself any different than someone using the basketball hoops, jogging the track, or skipping stones on the pond there. Just as I wouldn't feel the need to ask "permission" to do those things, so to do I not consider detecting any different. If someone has an issue, they're welcome to come tell me. But the minute you or I start asking, is the minute you only caste aspursions on yourself, or the hobby, that it was so evil, that you had to ask. JMHO

 

[Magicman]

First I want to say that ignorance of the law excuses no one. I rather be on the side of caution, what does it hurt to check? Below is an example of many of what will happen from the

I was reading a story the other night where this guy found some stuff on private property and was featured in the paper for the finds.... He got a letter in the mail from the state that he has violated the law and may face consequines.

I try to be a good stewart and follow a code of ethics. (by the way all the city park rangers help me because I took time out to ask for permission and now they point me where to go)

CODE OF ETHICS by the FMDAC

I WILL ALWAYS CHECK FEDERAL, STATE, COUNTY AND LOCAL LAWS BEFORE SEARCHING. IT IS MY RESPONSIBILITY TO

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Magic-man, you ask: "what does it hurt to check?" The answer is: you may get a "no", when in fact, no one really cared, or would have noticed, until you asked. Like, they'll envision geeks with shovels or something.

Here's a compromise: For those that are skittish, do it this way: Instead of going into city hall or a parks department, asking "Can I metal detect in the park?", (which only puts them in a position of basing the answer on their whims) phrase it this way instead: "Is there anything in the law or codes here that prohibits metal detecting?" See the difference? The latter puts them in a position of having to cite something specific that disallows it. And very few if any cities have something like that. Or better yet, rather than asking, DO YOUR OWN sleuthing to see if anything is said about detecting in city codes. A lot of cities have their laws & codes on the web now, with word searches, so it shouldn't be that hard. If the existing laws & codes are silent on the issue, then go! Just be discreet, neat, etc...

 

[Magicman]

I agree....

I will tell you this, I am sure that by the time my daughter is out of school, most everything will be off limits. Last week 12 workers were taking a break and played some soccer at the park (NY) they all got tickets. The park rules, stated something about not disturbing the grass, someone called the police. Stuff like that happening more and more

 

[JM*StL]

New to detecting, just received an SE several days ago and checked out the ordinances for our local suburban park system (pasted below). Seems like they have included the retrieval part of metal detecting on the list of prohibited activities. I am considering going to the park with the detector only and no digging tools to see if I am noticed.

The part of the ordinance that refers to confiscating equipment got my attention. I wonder if they would confiscate just the digging tools or the detector as well, if they were inclined to confiscate anything.


"It shall be unlawful for any person in a city park to:

Dig, or remove any soil, rock, stones, trees, shrubs or plants, or to down timber or other wood or materials, or to make any excavation by tool, equipment, blasting, or other means or agency.

The park superintendent or any park ranger shall have the authority to eject from the park any person acting in violation of this chapter. The park superintendent or any park ranger shall have the authority to seize and confiscate any property, thing or device in the park or used in violation of this chapter. The park superintendent or any park ranger shall have the authority to issue a summons to any person acting in violation of this chapter. In the event of resistance to action intended to correct a violation of this chapter, either physical or otherwise, the park supervisor or the park ranger shall refer the violation to the police department."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

JM, what you have quoted is just standard boiler-plate language for "dont' disturb the vegetation". I believe that wording (common elsewhere too) was developed to address people pilfering plants. I have actually seen persons to flower gardens and cut thing off, I guess with the intent of splicing and growing into their own gardens? I don't see anything about metal detectors, or metal objects in the list of things not-to-take. Yes, I agree, that the no "excavation" thing could be morphed to apply to us.

I believe things like that, are sort of like noise ordinances: there is no violation, until there is a complaint. If no one complains of noise, no one is ever called to go out and do a decibal complaint, thus .... no violation. So if you're being neat, and leaving no sign of your presense, I haven't seen many problems. I work with street sweepers and back-pack blowers in my company. We have occasionally, over the years, gotten noise complaints, so we have to re-route certain jobs (too close to residential homes) to different times of the night. Now "technically", if they were to take a decibal measuring device and try it on our blowers or sweeper, we might actually be in violation anywhere in the city limits, after 10 pm (or whatever). But "realistically", no police or persons say anything unless it bothers someone. So detecting is sort of the same thing in my opinion. A lot of laws are written in such a way, as to be SO encompassing, that ...... in the event of a moron stealing things, leaving a mess, etc... they have a tool for being able to say "scram". So if you don't stick out, and are neat, I bet most people/places don't care. Just go at off-times so as not to be a sore-thumb.

 

[dcr]

There is no question that metal detecting is usually not unlawful. That is a given, unless otherwise stated in the law. What IS clear is that there are laws that say that you can't, dig or disturb the soil or ANY plant or vegitation. That means that you can swing the coil all you want. You just can't recover a target, unless it's sitting above ground. These law don't care WHY you are digging. They only, and simply say that you can't dig!

You can detect in most California State Parks. Unfortunately, you can only dig with a gold pan, according to the regulations. When I pointed out to my local Chief Ranger that it would do a lot less damage to use my recovery shovel than a gold pan, he agreed that I had stated a fact, but it was still unlawful to dig with a shovel. Does it make semse? No, but it's the law.

 

[Jesse W. McComas]

At Ritter Park here in Huntington, WV., there is no problem with our hobby. The grounds Keppers always ask to see how my luck has been and I always show them what I found. When they clear brush and trees from an area, they always let me know so I can hunt it first.. In fact, I can hunt any property that is owened by the city. It has been that way forever, and I have been in the hobby for 40 years come June. HH to everybody...Jesse.,

 

[kingingkunsan]

Sorry to refresh such an old topic. But it still applies to those new to the hobby. There has been a recent influx of detectorists recently due to a poplular television show. More of a reason to educate all. Here is a list of do's and don'ts that should always be followed. Especially in public areas (Ex. parks, picnic area, etc. etc)

Do.
-Look on internet if there are laws against metal detecting parks in the particular city. Because the laws vary city to city as well as state to state.
-Take trash, junk, unwanted items, etc out with you.
-Refill hole as neatly as possible. You want it to appear as undisturbed as possible.
-Be polite. Share the park

Don't
-should be obvious but DO NOT LEAVE HOLES UNFILLED!!!
-throw trash, junk, unwanted items, etc off to the side/next to a tree
-get in the way of playing children/ yell at children for bothering you

If you can't handle these simple rules stay out of the parks. I have never had an issue of detecting in city parks.

I have been to one park in my life that had a sign that stated "no metal detecting"
Two times I asked for permission to detect a city park/state park.

City park results= I read rules/laws on the internet. Nothing of metal detecting was mentioned. But there were rules as mentioned in earlier posts about not disturbing grass, plants, soil, etc. I lost a set of keys and wanted to find them. I got permission granted (although I was told that metal detecting was not normally allowed in city parks.) and hunted the park for over 2 hours. Not one sign posted for no metal detecting in the park. Hundreds if not more than a thousand cars passed by on the busy streets surrounding the park. Not once was I asked what I was doing. Nor did anyone ever tell me metal detecting was not allowed (aside from the first and only person I spoke with) I know at least 3 patrol cars passed that day.

State park results= again i read rules on the internet. No metal detecting allowed was clearly stated. Not one sign in the park stated "no metal detecting". But I asked the park ranger on duty that day anyways. She said yes. I hunted the heck out of that park. I went every weekend for a year. I always asked her first. Never had a problem. But as stated above.. asking could have prompted her to look into the rules/laws.
So moral of the storys are simple. Ask or do not ask. The choice is yours. Follow the rules above as I did and you should have no issues. Please post if you got arrested, had equipment taken, or given a fine for metal detecting a non-historical city park/state park.

 

[EddieB]

-- moved topic --

 

[togg77]

Exellent post Tom,somewhere some wise man said,"tis easier to beg forgiveness than ask permission".

 

[diggervance]

Hello All,
As I see this hobby grow bigger and bigger I have always wondered why city's haven't started selling licences just like for deer hunting,fishing and so on.Have a written test of sorts with the metal detecting etiquette..This would not only help generate money for cities park and rec departments but maybe detour so of the newbies from destroying our hobby.
Diggervance

 

[kingingkunsan]

Best idea ever.

 

[Doctorcoinz]

Well i used to hunt parks , i am in the uk. I packed in hunting parks after having run ins with police officers. Mostly no one cares providing holes are filled neatly but many parks
are out of bounds because of bye laws these days. They were good sites years back , very good but a lot of stuff has been recovered nowadays.
I have had about 3 hunts on parks that ended with police offiicers or park keepers removing me from the site (verbally removing me). No mess caused just they don't allow it nowadays.
Things change for the worse as time moves on i guess..

 

[Doctorcoinz]

I have seen craters left by other detector users too. No wonder bans get imposed on parks..

 

[Tom_in_CA]

diggervance and kingingkunsan, I know the sound of the word "permits" rolls off the tongue, and sounds so inviting, doesn't it? It evokes images of just showing that puppy to any busy-body lookie-lous, and they leave you alone, right?

But go past that "waxed romantic" image of permits for a minute, and ..... follow through to various logical conclusions. They are not what you think, not what you want, and invariably contain baggage, scrutiny, limits, and ...... simply visibility we DON'T want.

Here's a thread on the subject. Read through, and see what's come of places that had such things:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?18,1863378,1863378#msg-1863378

 

[widebody]

[size=medium]my only point is that i did go to the director of county parks and was told yes by the big guy himself. he even told me of parks they were refurbishing that i might try. so at times you can get a yes from the bosses. otherwise it is a crap shoot.

HH[/size]

 

[ohio fred]

The city has no definite rule but they don't want to see you in city parks,county parks you have to get permit from ranger station.What bother me is you can golf ride your bike skate board park park on lawn swim ice hockey basket ball foot ball soccer jog let your dog poop everything you can think of ask to metal detect after everyone has already wrecked the parks and it is a big fat no,..You are going to deflate the world by putting holes in it.You are going to open gates of hell by digging your a pervert that is not a hobby your unamerican get a football I've heard about everything.Hear at state beach park you can only detect on beach not picnicking areas just the beach don't let him see you at car with it on trying to check batteries they get hot.But and yes i have kids bring a bunch of kids and give them shovels and buckets and they can dig holes where ever they want.some cities near by catch you in park they take equipment and you get ticket.state beach park has a fine if they catch you off beach with it on i mean just on if they want to get nasty.Since there is usually one or two of you they push you around.Take skate boarder they are very where to many to stop so they build skate park basketball to many playing in street better make a court same with soccer swimming ice hockey joggers they are all over street lets make jogging path,then there the one or two metal detector,s don't bother no one don't cause any trouble usually don't litter clean up there messes what the city tell you you are destroying public and city property.

 

[diggersgt]

I am new to the forum, but an old detectorist (33 yrs.). Bought my first detector the day after I got married (to help stay out the house sometimes). I've detected Pittsburgh parks for all of the 33 years and was only stopped one time by some guy cutting grass, never the police. I am a Pittsburgh cop (25 yrs) and could not quote the law forbidding it (however, there might be one) after all, there are still laws on the books that you cannot leave hitched horses unattended for more than an hour (I think), never got anyone on that one. After reading the forum for some time, It is a pleasure to see guys who take this seriously and leave the park the way they found it. I have been horrified several times to arrive at an area and find big gaping holes. Laying dirt on a small towel is a great tip. Glad to be aboard and hope to retire someday and pick up my detecting time.