Looks like AT Pro equals the T2 and F75....

[SteveP(NH)]

Air tests are worthless indicators of how machines will do in the ground !!

I don't agree. My experience has been that an air test is a good indicator of a detectors POSSIBLE depth ability. Of course ground conditions determine the final depth, but you can get a basic idea from an air test. I've done air tests on every detector I've ever owned and WITHOUT exception, an air test gave a general indication of the depth you might expect in the ground. Of course I do have fairly mild soil, but never the less, it was accurate enough that I could estimate fairly closely what to expect in the ground from an air test.

An air test is simply a best case scenario. Only under very special condition will you ever get better depth in the ground than in the air.

The point that I was making is that an air test only tests about 10% of the factors that determine how good a machine will perform in the ground. If your air test results are the same as your test garden results then you have never tested a cheap detector. You can get good air test results on those cheap ebay detectors but they won't get much depth in ground with any appreciable mineralization. The air has no response, the ground has a response that totally dwarfs a target signal. A good detector can pick the tiny, tiny target signal out of the roaring huge ground signal, which is what gives it depth, a less capable detector doesn't have the signal to noise ratio that allows it to pick out that tiny target response from the overwhelming ground response. But none of that is tested in an air test thus an air test is not a good test for a detector's depth in the ground. You are lucky to have such mild soil but most of us do have to deal with more mineralization and a good detector can handle that, and a cheap one can't.

Perhaps a quote from Dave Johnson about the T2 he designed would also help to illustrate my point. Dave said and I quote, "The really hot machines out there (many of which I had a hand in) air test well past 10-inches, but lose a lot of targets in the ground. So rather than go for broke on air test, we decided to make it merely ruthlessly competitive on air test, and concentrated our efforts on pushing the state of the art performance on things that matter in the ground like target separation, iron rejection, and stable target ID."

But back to the title of this thread - which stated that the AT PRO equals the T2 and F75 - it very well might just do that, which is why I have pre-ordered one but an air test isn't going to provide the data to see if that statement is true or false.

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Intellectual B S...

Naah just common sense and Brad is full of it! (common sense that is)

I hear the Ace 350 is a pretty darn good performer. It sure is nice to see another made in USA detector giving the made in Malaysia stuff some competition.

HH Tom

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Explain to me how an air test is going to test the ground filters in the machine? Or do you think that ground filtering isn't an important factor in metal detector performance?

Explain to me how an air test is going to test target ID stability in mineralization? Or do you thing that have a stable target ID in mineralization is important?

Finally answer me this - those cheap chinese machines you can get on Ebay can air test a dime to 12 inches (so I am told, I have never owned one) - Does that mean those $50 ebay machines are as good as an AT PRO?

 

[NM5K]

Air tests are very valuable. As you say, they give a good indication of what
is possible with the machine. Air is a less lossy media than ground, so usually
air tests do end up being a "best case" test. The thing that counts, is the air
test will always be in direct proportion to the ground results. The ground quality will
determine the ultimate depth you will get, but that lower real life depth will always be in
the same proportion as the air test for the various objects.
IE: say a machine air hits a quarter at 10 inches. And a dime at 8 inches. And so
on down the lower conductivities in the scale..
If for instance the ground caused a 20% loss in performance, you will see that
same 20% loss on all targets. So the quarter would end up hitting down to 8 inches,
and the dime would hit down to 6.4 inches in the real world with that particular ground.
So the air test is quite valid as long as you keep in mind that it's usually a
best case scenario. But you can measure all the various objects and check
the depths of each. That data, with the ground loss included, will tell you the
actual real life performance to expect off each object.
The ground loss generally effects each object equally, and in direct proportion to the
air results.

 

[joe dirt_1]

I sure hope someone does some testing real soon to compare the garrett detector against some of the best machines out there right now. It gets old reading what the new garrett detector will do when the detector is just being shipped to the consumers and there is nothing to back up all the wild claims being tossed around. Before some guys jump my ass and call me a garrett hater... I'm not..actually owned 3 garretts in the past. They were well made detectors but just didn't meet my expectations in a detector. I use what works for me and a fisher cz5 and a tesoro silver

 

[Keith Southern]

but for a dang 300.00 or little less detector that thing really opened my eyes in bad dirt ....Only machine I have used that would I.D. item's correctly under hot rock's and red clay hand fired brick's....

That's what got me interested in the AT-Pro ...

if it retains the see through funky dirt the 350 has with the tone break ability and Ground balance ability thats sweet for a 600.00 buck waterproof machine...

for those that dont know the 350 can put some remarkable airtest number's up on the board also...

Airtest are nice and usually the higher the freq the better they airtest especially low conductor's and even get less eletrical interference than a low Khz nmachine will but usually suffer in the ground by as much as 50 to 60% and even more in some dirt's..

Airtest at great depth's are great tricks for seller's to compare other machines to in show rooms setting's you know look how deep this will go against brand xyz...another trick some company's use it large speakers with real loud audio ...it works better in showroom comparison's against say a small box machine with small audio...

What has really changed the game lately is the advent of new coil design's

And I must commend Garrett on the DD coil it's a nice light weight coil with some serious thinking incorporated into it...Just like the Tek's Bi-Axial coil makes there machine perform I am leaning towards the new Garrett coil making the Pro perform...

I know I put a concentric coil on the 350 and it was just dead at lost it's ability to see though mineral...


Hey Tom mine will be here Tomorrow we'll see what she does in the next few day's

Heck it's supposed to rain the rest of the week Wait a minute that don't make no difference
at least it might have some attributes !!Other manufacturer's ought to be considering...

Gott'a love competition

Keith

 

[ToniSteve]

Minelab Sovereign GT does not air test well, yet is a contender for depth among many of the top rated machines, same for the Excalibur. If you have one air test it and see.

So i am waiting for some real on the ground (or sand) testing, looking forward to both Willee's test and Grave Digger Max's test, both trustworthy testers indeed!

Steve

 

[jackintexas]

We all hope what you say is true. But to never hunted with one or much less never had one in your hands and then making a statement like that is foolish. I live near Garrett. Know several people that work for Garrett. I hope what you say is true. But time will tell. When my dealer gets one on the board I intend to play with it. I have several coins buried near my dealer for testing.If it is better than what I have I certainly will buy one....Jack

 

[BuckeyeBrad]

with the new DD, is the field similar to "traditional" eliptical DD's that have a rounded toe and heel, of does the depth fall off some under the flattened toe and heel of the Garrett coil? I saw a post from someone that had a 350 awhile back and something that they said made me wonder about that. TIA Bud!!

 

[Jackpine Savage]

Yours are one of the reports I always look forward to reading Keith. I know you well tell it straight and how it compares against the competition in that dirt of yours

Coupla things, how well does it do in iron at high sens and the all important recovery/response speed.

Oh yeah, the audio better be descriptive without being too noisy.

Rain??? man your lucky at least it ain't snow!

Tom

 

[dld]

I saw all the video's from Pyledriver and read all John"s post reguarding depth test, so I did a search on Youtube for "air test with F75" and "T2". I saw a few and in disc mode's results are the same.

The F75/T2's beat the AT only in all metal mode but only by an inch.

A Minelab Safari beat all of them only by an inch/half - 2 inches.

These were all air test....stock coils.

Results to me? Well the AT PRO equaling the T2 and F75 is awesome results to me because those are $1000 plus machines.

Only difference? The AT PRO doesnt have an all metal mode....BUT it has Pro Mode, which is close, per the design Garrett has in that maode.

There ya go...

Alan

if what you are looking for can be found in the depth range of the detector you are using, great, but if it is 1/2"-2" deeper than your machine will reach then it is as good as not there.
Thats where the better machines come in to play

 

[ivanll]

n/t

 

[bearkat4160]

I dont need to explain all that because the statements I made are that the AT PRO equal the T2 and F75 in AIR TEST. This is funny how my post gets all discombobulated...hahahahaha geez.

Most post didnt say ANYTHING about depth results in the ground.

But you are correct Steve about your statements reguarding in ground results...cant answer because I'm a professional air test researcher...hahaha, Nuts!

 

[SteveP(NH)]

Lets hope both of us have a good time and good luck with our AT PROs once they show up - Hope you nail a piece of Spanish silver first time out with one.

 

[bearkat4160]

Yep my Excal would not do air test well, same as my Infinium, but both would punch deep in the dirt.

 

[bearkat4160]

Good post N5K....The more minerals, the les depth.

Example: My Ace 250 will hit a .1 gram gold nugget in air at 1 inch.
If I put it on the ground here where I live..it is very HOT DIRT. (11.60 on GTI scale, 12.75 max) The 250 will not detect it, due to the mineralized ground.

Cant wait for those real world results....funny how air test have got all these people here all wound up.

 

[bearkat4160]

Good post Steve...Dave Johnson is a detector design GENIUS...! I wish Garrett would put out machines as fast as he does! WOW.

Alan

 

[Willee - Texas]

I would not say the AT PRO is equal to those detectors ... I would go farther and say because of the waterproof features it is better.
Depth is not always the only deciding factor in what makes one detector better than another.
I have had a F75 LTD and now own a AT PRO so I can say this ...

Quality ... The construction of the AT PRO is the same as the F75 LTD (aluminum and plastic) except that the F75 has two controls and menus.
The AT Pro has push buttons with an excellent tactical feel. Both feel solid and not wobbly.
Both use a black and white LCD display showing VDI numbers.

Air tests ... AT PRO wins this one hands down.

Shallow water hunting ... dont drop your F75 in the water or its toast
AT PRO ... good to 10 feet underwater.

Audio ... AT PRO has 3 tones with tone roll and Iron Audio ... F75 has 4 tones.

Both have good adjustment options.

Now for the killer.
New cost ... AT PRO under $600 ... F75 LTD over $1200 (new KellyCo prices)

 

[bearkat4160]

I like that report from someone whos has both...I rest my case...

Alan

 

[SteveP(NH)]

I have a F75 myself and have about 150 hours on it, and before I had a T2 and had about 300 hours on it. I plan on putting my AT PRO up against my F75 in my test garden and in a recovery speed test and record the results on video. Depth and Recovery Speed are the two most important aspect to me. I am anxious to see if the AT PRO can hit the silver dime at 14 inches like the F75 can in both discrim and all metal modes and correctly ID it both by sound and by the target ID number (jumps around a bit in discrim but locks on good in all metal).