Just watched vids on a new detector

[Tom_in_CA]

.... that sounded exactly the same and they were all foil wads. so much for telling them apart.

Ok, I'll be the devil's advocate: Perhaps you just need more experience. Eh? You only dug ...

.... Dug 20 more.

Ok. But perhaps you need to dig 40 more. And if you do that, and don't get an additional gold ring, then ... you need to dig 80 more (you're not yet attuned to the sounds after all). And if you dig 80 and still haven't dug a gold ring, then it STILL doesn't mean that gold and aluminum don't "sound different". It simply means you "haven't attained" yet. Continue to 160 targets, and so forth. At NO point can you ever say "it doesn't work". It will always be that you need a little more practice.

Do you see the inability to ever disprove this claim ?

 

[sprchng]

Do it in reverse. Do the cup game.
Take 4 gold rings that sound similar and a piece of folded foil (not pull tab,they're too easy) to the dealer , put each in a covered paper cup and have them pick out the "gold ring" from the foil. They should be right 80% of the time but I'll bet they will repeatedly pick the foil because it's the one that's the most different.

What makes more sense when looking for gold jewelry,,,,using a detector that gives you the MOST information (tone ,VDI , visual representation) or the one that gives you just tone?

 

[amberjack]

science is science, physics is physics etc..

until a detector can excite the atoms of the metal and report back to the user what metal it is as they are all different the only way to find gold is to dig, snake oil tactics work on those that want to believe.

reality is I have dug choppy ugly sounds, faint little whispers, screaming banshees, to mellow yellow and all have been gold and dug the same sounds and have been junk.

sure there is ways of cherry picking to some extent but 90% is left.

my point is that science and only science can fix this problem and my scepticism says even this tech is available will they give it to us? maybe they just put themselves out of a job?

its really quite simple excite the atom report to the screen.

AJ

 

[amberjack]

hey look this is about average or under per gold for me , the plus side is 99% of the gold is still there as its locked up the Al keeps is safe for me until I am ready to dig that spot, so there is a plus to the poor tech we have.

AJ

 

[Electricfrontporch]

Sometimes good targets sound bad and bad targets sound good.
Regardless of the machine you use or claims you believe,
the only way to find out is to dig.
Oh....also don't believe everything you read/see on the Internet.
Here or there

Dig It All

Noah

 

[Tom_in_CA]

In your example of the 4 gold rings that sound similar versus a piece of folded up foil:

a) bear in mind that gold rings have an infinite # of TIDs. And while it's true they may all be "round" (as opposed to an oblong gold pendant or crucifix), yet even gold rings can have one side heavier than the other, d/t the "crowns" that some have. So this can give some rings a bi-metal (flickering #'s) TID.

b) I bet I can take foil and .... given the right bending, shaping, and smunching , I bet I can make it exactly mimic the rings in your example, such that no one can tell them apart with any machine.

c) gold rings with a crown (one side heavier than the other) will tend to be at a tilt in the ground, when in turf. I will comment on this in a separate post.

d) Yes, you're absolutely right: If ANY machine and user is going to try to make any successful case of being able to tell the difference between gold and aluminum, it's NOT going to be a monotone beep-&-dig machine like this. There are machines with full orchestra tones, graphs, etc.... that would have much better ability to weigh in on the debate (although I don't think they can do it either). But you're right: To be making the claim for a machine like this Tesoro, is much less convincing.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

the technology is available. But you'd have to wear lead suits , and get scores of govt. clearances to use in public. And no one can be within 50 ft. of you. And it would cost millions of dollars, and be mounted on a bobcat tractor.

 

[dfmike]

A typical beach hunt last summer. It's like finding the needle in the haystack but once you find the needle it quickly becomes addictive... and the junk piles on.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I knew a guy who did a several month study in a junky park in San Jose, CA. He gridded off a part of a park which had been picked hard for silver over the years. Ie.: everyone cherry picking for high conductors in past years. Hence passing foil, tabs, nickels, etc... My friend reasoned based on the amount of old coins that used to come out of here, there's GOT to be some old nickels and gold still here. So he gridded off a big section. And ..... for the next few months .... forced himself to strip-mine ever single signal. He kept careful diary records of each item. Eg.: type object, depth, location, etc.... In the end, yes.... he did get some buffalos and a V or two (all numismatically worthless orange-ish corroded). And he did get some gold items: A few rings, charms, etc.... But he concluded it simply wasn't worth the strip-mining time that it took. And that his time would have been better spent simply going to the beach, if gold were his objective.

But one interesting lesson his study played out though: When taking meticulous study notes of depth of each item, he would purposefully dig slow for each object. And he noticed that whenever he got a gold ring, that .... IF the ring had a "crown" on it, then it would always be tilted towards the heavy end down. Only the round even bands would be flat in the ground. Hmmmm. So therefore this might be something to consider for those who are trying to discern a ring sound via a "round" sound. To be totally fair, you'd have to be trying rings tilted, not just flat on a table.

Postscript: The dealer fellow in the video never answered my email, asking him to answer the critique. And so goes these claims, eh ? People (even dealers) spout this stuff, but then disappear when the notions are challenged.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well, at least for dry sand hunting the digging is easy

I have seen beach erosion (wet sand after storms erode the beach), that can bring about the following conditions: All the light stuff (like the tabs and caps and foil in your pix) are washed away. Leaving only the heavy items: Coins, keys, sinkers, rings, bolts, etc..... And in conditions like that, you can dig gold rings while getting ZERO aluminum.

In fact, in some very target-thick zones, after storms, we've been in conditions with SO many targets to choose from, that we have gone to the tactic of rejecting everything above zinc (because even the lighter weight zinc coins are washed out). And this ups the odds at gold rings versus pennies/dimes/quarters.

A friend of mine did this tactic one day (because he didn't want to go home with 100+ pennies). He ended up with over 100 nickels, and 5 gold rings for that hunt . Since nickels would have been the only coins allowed in. He did get some dimes and pennies that the surf had tumbled to be thinner, so their TID's came in a tad under penny/dime. But otherwise, mostly nickels were the only coins. If he had gone on a "dig all" mentality, he'd certainly have had 500 or so coins that day, but perhaps only 1 or 2 gold rings, as the incoming tide would have chased him out. Ie.: you're not going to "get it all". Mother nature will sand the beach back in, so the objective is to stack your odds to get the best ratio of gold rings before the beach sands back in.

 

[Sven]

Food for thought, will keep this in mind.
The vintage Tek Mark 1 just modified has some nice notching ability to reject certain items.

 

[After-1-]

As I said in the very first post , New Detector- Looks good to me, and what i said about my hearing , I just proved it on his 4th video , where he was going over 2 different targets to show the different tones, Well they both sound the same to me with my hearing today. I was thinking of picking up a Mojave , I think I will wait to read some more reviews. Thank for the great replies, sometimes we just say the wrong thing at the wrong time.and I pick up my share of aluminum junk , mostly because I feel I have a better chance it being a nickel than a ring------------------------------------------------------after1-----------------------------------------

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The Mark 1 was excellent for its time. Sweet sounds that everyone loved. Still competitive to-this-day in some arenas. However, the depth is not as deep as some of today's powerhouses. Also the Mark 1 wasn't that good in mineralized soils. So for example, it wasn't that good in mineralized wet salt beaches. But for modest ground (most land hunting in most states) it was ground-breaking technology for its time.

As for its ability to notch, so too can a person notch with a host of today's machines. But yes, the Mark 1 made it oh-so-sweet with the tones that it had.

 

[Sven]

The Mark 1 was excellent for its time. Sweet sounds that everyone loved. Still competitive to-this-day in some arenas. However, the depth is not as deep as some of today's powerhouses. Also the Mark 1 wasn't that good in mineralized soils. So for example, it wasn't that good in mineralized wet salt beaches. But for modest ground (most land hunting in most states) it was ground-breaking technology for its time.

As for its ability to notch, so too can a person notch with a host of today's machines. But yes, the Mark 1 made it oh-so-sweet with the tones that it had.

Your right.
In our area works just fine for targets in our schoolyards, parks where most targets are only 5-7" deep. It works surprisingly well locating Canadian clad coins most target ID machines of today have somewhat difficulty identifying. And the tones are a bonus. For me at least this over grown sized detector still has a place.

 

[Southwind]

he concluded it simply wasn't worth the strip-mining time that it took. And that his time would have been better spent simply going to the beach, if gold were his objective.

Exactly my conclusion.

 

[sprchng]

As I said in the very first post , New Detector- Looks good to me, and what i said about my hearing , I just proved it on his 4th video , where he was going over 2 different targets to show the different tones, Well they both sound the same to me with my hearing today. I was thinking of picking up a Mojave , I think I will wait to read some more reviews. Thank for the great replies, sometimes we just say the wrong thing at the wrong time.and I pick up my share of aluminum junk , mostly because I feel I have a better chance it being a nickel than a ring------------------------------------------------------after1-----------------------------------------

This is an excellent point about the differences in hearing from person to person and the resulting irreplaceable value of a detector that gives you the ability to adjust those tones to compensate for those differences. Years of listening to power tools and un-muffled gun shots has seriously eroded my hearing in the higher frequencies and the threshold pitch feature on the etrac and CTX allow me to change those tones to assist my deficient ears . By raising and lowering the pitch of all the tones the audio range of the low and high conductors can be expanded or compressed and , at a pitch level of about 22 to 24 , nickels for instance have a very distinctive tone to my ears , and I can pick them out of the pull tabs with surprising regularity. I often dig more nickels out of heavily hunted parks than quarters , dimes or copper pennies.The Deus has a similar feature although not as useful.

We never know for sure what we leave behind without digging it but , if I was looking for a trashy site gold jewelry detector , an adjustable tone feature would be at the top of my list of requirements.

 

[amberjack]

this debate does get a bit boring as it comes up so much and everyone has their own strategy, mine is about reality and not saying anyone else's isn't , but if you want it all all has to be dug and that's impossible for a few reasons.

so while we are still detecting with stone age detectors and if you think we are not then I am sorry but delusion is a factor of your thinking, we have to detect with a caveman mentality drag the knuckles on the ground grunt a lot and pull out all sounds don't think to much as there is no need in the end a club is a club and until we have other tools nothing left to do but dig

while my post maybe tongue in cheek for the most part my message is real...

heed not oh wise ones, and I get the gold

happy aluminium digging as they say.

I will add as a post script if 99.9% of us were going detecting in the modern world as a job (strip mining) we probably need a carrier change

AJ

 

[Sven]

I dig trash, a lot of it, amongst it is treasure.
Tried strip mining once at the beach with a Gold Bug 1, never again.

 

[Sven]

I'm always surprised when I dig a gold ring, never noticed a difference between them and any other trash target using a VLF.
Only one time when using my Pi, got the weirdest target signal, only time I ever heard it. It turned out to be a big gold ring.

 

[dfmike]

Sven, that ring with the 2 hands and the heart, a real stunner ! To me it's worth digging all that trash for a ring like that. The regular run of the mill plain bands are OK but some are unique works of art. They deserve to be out of the darkness for everyone to see.