I see that the MX Sport has been released to dealers

[Woodstock]

Hey Kemper .... are you seriously accusing me of pointing out the obvious and calling it a assumptions ? What else could it have been except manufactures lack of awareness , either by Whites or by one of their sub contractors that made the parts in question ? First let's be clear here . I have experienced the ISO game in all it's glory . Do you know what a ISO Certification even is ? Let me explain it to you . ISO is a common Worldwide Certification that once given means that the quality standards set by the company seeking ISO Certification are the same as the rest of the world . That sounds good but it's not all what it's cracked up to be . Once the company receives that certification they can some what relax their standards with know one knowing . And UNLESS the company who contracts them has their own Representatives re-inspecting the product again and that seldom happens until problems are found . Don't get me wrong this time because where ever those faulty parts came from America or where ever ... Whites will resolve this and make it right .
That being said , I worked at the Largest Drill manufacture in North America and their quality was top notch and inspections were done every few minutes . But in their need to meet the ISO Standards dropped their inspections to once a hour and in some cases once every four hours ... and our quality dropped from being the best to tied with INDIA at number 8 in the world . Just think of what could be passed as good that was out of spec ? The results were our sales dropped and the company went out of business ... I talk from life experiences seen with my own eyes and your bold enough to say I'm making assumptions ? Well at least your making a attempt to become a active forum member . Just remember your making post a year and at that rate it'll take another 830 years to match me today . Thanks for posting anyways . e'nuff said , Woodstock

 

[Kemper2]

Hey Kemper .... are you seriously accusing me of pointing out the obvious and calling it a assumptions ? What else could it have been except manufactures lack of awareness , either by Whites or by one of their sub contractors that made the parts in question ? First let's be clear here . I have experienced the ISO game in all it's glory . Do you know what a ISO Certification even is ? Let me explain it to you . ISO is a common Worldwide Certification that once given means that the quality standards set by the company seeking ISO Certification are the same as the rest of the world . That sounds good but it's not all what it's cracked up to be . Once the company receives that certification they can some what relax their standards with know one knowing . And UNLESS the company who contracts them has their own Representatives re-inspecting the product again and that seldom happens until problems are found . Don't get me wrong this time because where ever those faulty parts came from America or where ever ... Whites will resolve this and make it right .
That being said , I worked at the Largest Drill manufacture in North America and their quality was top notch and inspections were done every few minutes . But in their need to meet the ISO Standards dropped their inspections to once a hour and in some cases once every four hours ... and our quality dropped from being the best to tied with INDIA at number 8 in the world . Just think of what could be passed as good that was out of spec ? The results were our sales dropped and the company went out of business ... I talk from life experiences seen with my own eyes and your bold enough to say I'm making assumptions ? Well at least your making a attempt to become a active forum member . Just remember your making post a year and at that rate it'll take another 830 years to match me today . Thanks for posting anyways . e'nuff said , Woodstock

I'm just saying that you are making assumptions about the build of the machine without any first hand or relayed knowledge of what the problem is. What you assume is possible but so are many other things.

 

[doc holiday232]

I think the machine was designed by a bunch of newbies who would Not seek advice from old experienced hands and collectively arrived at the "we know Best and the public has to except it." And then along came some old hands who said"Whoa" and the little fiefdom came crashing down-----and they Don't know how to fix it.

 

[Woodstock]

Well Kemper ... glad to see your second post here . May first hand knowledge is from keeping updated with the issues and I haven't assumed anything that HASN'T HAPPENED ! But seriously if you really followed the situation at Whites you'd know what is going on with their MX Sport problems ... so I'll fill you in . First there are glitches in some software . I say some because only some have had complaints . Second some have developed pressure cracks on the screen . And third leaks in a poor fitting "O" ring causing leaks . So now I can only assume you understand and I assume you know how to fix those issues and I addressed only part of that , some of this can be user related and owner paranoia or ruff use and believing something is going to go wrong before it does .
Software issues ... well so have them so those who do need to be updated properly .
Pressure cracks on the screen have two reasons ... poor fitment and a chinsy front glass . That's a hard issues to fix cause of the "cell phone design" but it must be addressed .
And the "O" ring ... only some leak so they either need to find a better supplier and make sure the new ones and their remaining stock has a better fitting ring ...
So now I ask you " What would you do to address these problems ? Any suggestions ? Cause if you don't have anything to ad to this then why are you saying I assume when that's all you can say ? Tell us all about those " so many other things " and stop saying I assumed these things .... e'nuff said , Woodstock

 

[Kemper2]

So now I ask you " What would you do to address these problems ? Any suggestions ? Cause if you don't have anything to ad to this then why are you saying I assume when that's all you can say ? Tell us all about those " so many other things " and stop saying I assumed these things .... e'nuff said , Woodstock[/b]

First of all, I say that you are assuming because you are. You have no direct knowledge as to what the cause of the problems are. Secondly ,I didn't say " so many other things " as you stated. I said- " What you assume is possible but so are many other things. "

I don't believe that an MX Sport has been sold that does not have problems and meets the standards that White's wished for the machine. I think an effort should be made by White's to get as many of the machines back as possible. That is my opinion and I am not saying that is something they have to do.

In answer to your question-- " What would you do to address these problems ? " I can't speculate as I am not in their position. It seems like the best route would be to get the machines back and test each one after needed improvements are made. I don't know the cost of that compared to manufacturing new machines that meet their standard so I am only saying what seems to be the best solution.

As for your statement-- " First there are glitches in some software . I say some because only some have had complaints . " I don't think that ( complaints) should be used as an indicator of the amount of software problems.

 

[Woodstock]

OK Kemper ... I think we can agree on the software problems as long as they are just complaints .. but someone who reads this might want to weigh in on what the problems with the software is . And I believe the best way to address other issues is fix all on the production line and repair every one with problems returned to them for a complete inspection . New cases when needed , new screens when needed and the leak's fixed just like Garrett did when theirs failed . There hasn't been a recall because if they did they would have to re-inspect units that are not faulty and their cost would bankrupt them .So the software is a open issue but everything else is and will be addressed by Whites so every updated unit will be great . And those with issues will be fixed ... and as far as I not having direct knowledge ... your partly correct . But I have 42 years of production knowledge with a handful of major company's and seen tons of quality issues and resolved many as well . But I have all the knowledge this forum has given me about the MX Sport issues and at least I can understand what they really need to resolve them ... again what have you offered except rebuttal ? And congratulations on your seventh post . Happy Trails , Woodstock

 

[Sneakyweasel]

With the updated software, audio modulation that, when turned on, doesn't do anything and an extremely weak pinpoint mode.

 

[Kemper2]

OK Kemper ... And congratulations on your seventh post . Happy Trails , Woodstock

Thank you I have talked to White's both on their forum and on a technical forum. My concerns are the issues of people being sold an MX Sport and the future of the fact that these machines will be in the detecting community.

I am not aware of any MX Sport that has been sold and is not defective. If there were any such item more could be made like it. I'm really not concerned in telling White's what they could have and should have done in regards to the manufacturing of the machine. I don't know if there is anything ,in their control, they could have or should have done. You seem to think you have some answers in that department and as I've said it is possible that you are right.

 

[Woodstock]

OK thenplease ask those in the said forums you checked who has bought a good one ... cause I know there was quite a few . And take note that just because some have issues that doesn't mean ALL are faulty . Happy Trails , Woodstock

 

[Kemper2]

OK thenplease ask those in the said forums you checked who has bought a good one ... cause I know there was quite a few . And take note that just because some have issues that doesn't mean ALL are faulty . Happy Trails , Woodstock

As I said-
" I am not aware of any MX Sport that has been sold and is not defective." if you know there are quite a few you should be able to furnish that information.

 

[Woodstock]

And as I said ... many owners have no issues . But your eyes are closed so tight you refuse to see them . Saying all of them have issues without proof is a assumption that your making based on your vast assumption knowledge , right ? When your pointing a assuming finger at me ... just remember when you point your finger at me that three are pointing back at you ... Your saying that Whites knowing fully well that all the MX Sports were defective sold them anyways to their customers and you know this based on your vast assumption knowledge ? Stop assuming and read all the threads about this on every forum before you give accusations on anyone Else's comments and then correct your comments and your own assumptions .... I know I can assume that your not willing or capable to do that ... prove me wrong . Woodstock

OK then please ask those in the said forums you checked who has bought a good one ... cause I know there was quite a few . And take note that just because some have issues that doesn't mean ALL are faulty . Happy Trails , Woodstock

As I said-
" I am not aware of any MX Sport that has been sold and is not defective." if you know there are quite a few you should be able to furnish that information.

 

[Kemper2]

Your saying that Whites knowing fully well that all the MX Sports were defective sold them anyways to their customers and you know this based on your vast assumption knowledge ?

I didn't say that at all. Where did you get that from ?

 

[UtahRich]

Hard to say what the FACTS are with the introduction of the MX-Sport in relation to the factory. Up to this point, I've not read a detailed explanation directly from White's Electronics as to what happened and the detailed chain of events. As for responses on the forums, it has been messy. Lots of accusations, assumptions, finger pointing and emotions running high. Such drama over a metal detector.

I think the simple point KEMPER is trying to make is that making EDUCATED GUESSES is still making GUESSES. It may be a good guess, it may be a great guess, but in the end, without KNOWLEDGE from White's, it is still a guess.

Hopefully, all the wrinkles can get ironed out with the MX-SPORT and we, the detector users of the world, can get back out detecting and sharing stories back here at FINDMALL of our adventures.

Best to All of you.


Rich (Utah)

 

[Kemper2]

Hard to say what the FACTS are with the introduction of the MX-Sport in relation to the factory. Up to this point, I've not read a detailed explanation directly from White's Electronics as to what happened and the detailed chain of events. As for responses on the forums, it has been messy. Lots of accusations, assumptions, finger pointing and emotions running high. Such drama over a metal detector.

I think the simple point KEMPER is trying to make is that making EDUCATED GUESSES is still making GUESSES. It may be a good guess, it may be a great guess, but in the end, without KNOWLEDGE from White's, it is still a guess.

Hopefully, all the wrinkles can get ironed out with the MX-SPORT and we, the detector users of the world, can get back out detecting and sharing stories back here at FINDMALL of our adventures.

Best to All of you.


Rich (Utah)

Well said and I agree.

 

[doc holiday232]

Many MXSport owners Don't Know they have issues---hence Whites tried to keep this hush hush,but was smoked out.

 

[Woodstock]

Well doc ... I agree will everything your sayin' too . And I've based everything from what I read that has been posted by everyone who's posted a problem . So far there has been three major issues and I truly still believe that not every unit is faulty . And I truly time that those who have not had the problems noted will not find those issues in the future except one , that being the "O" ring issues with shrinkage . So basically all should have them sent back and replaced . And if they don't fully submerge their unit deep enough to create water pressure it probably won't leak and they won't notice anything . Whites by it's own admission said that the "O" rings were tested by age simulation . That would basically be heat and freezing hundreds or thousands of times to mimic conditions and apparently that proved nothing or some that weren't in spec slipped by manufacturing inspection . In those cases if one is found in a case the whole case should be scrapped and those units that were assembled with those "O" rings from that case should be inspected rather than take the chance of more getting by .
Screen cracks are either developed from poor fitting from the injection molding or warps developed during the process and missed by inspectors . Then while being assembled forced into place causing pressure on the screen were every small movement on the case (even pressing buttons) stressed the screen enough to crack it , even shipping can cause this to happen .Maybe a better cushion between the body and the screen would have been the best way to avoid screen cracks and then maybe not . I think the whole cell phone type design although pleasing to the eye suck in real world conditions . Other than that the causes of screen cracks could be caused by abuse , but I doubt this because detectors aren't bought to abuse out of the box or at least mine weren't .
Software issues need to be addressed on a one on one basis because may things can cause operator issues , from bad chips to bad boards and bad button membranes ... but as I said before not all have software issues and like all noted problems .. not all have them .
So Doc your correct on just about everything and I agree with you except for one thing you said " Many MXSport owners Don't Know they have issues---hence Whites tried to keep this hush hush,but was smoked out " . I just can't wrap my mind around that a major detector manufacture like Whites would continue to sell known faulty units until they were caught or like you said " Smoked Out " cause some do and some don't . Happy Trails , Woodstock

 

[doc holiday232]

Hi WoodStock--good summation,but Whites Didn't put out ANY communication until the public became so loud that they had to acknowledge "that a Few people had a few questions". This worked Until the outcry couldn't be ignored and they pulled the machine.
I currently have 5 Whites detectors and am happy with all and wanted a MXSport. Glad I held off--I have a mountain of "stuff" that I have eaten over the years because I HATE the return hassle.

 

[Woodstock]

Hi Doc, Again I'm on the same side of the fence you on . And in reality would you really expect any company to announce anything that puts them in a bad light to their customers ? Major auto manufactures are aware of safety issues and also remain tight lipped as long a possible , and those issues can and have cost lives . This isn't life threatening by a long shot . And not unlike those manufactures Whites held off until they couldn't anymore . I noticed that Kelly-co lists them as "out of stock" now so it looks like maybe Whites recalled the remaining stock back for updates , if any other dealers can weigh in on if their MX Sports in stock were called back then I'll call it a re-call .
But for right now Whites is between a rock and a hard place .. any changes in design and they might have to buy the old ones back and / or replace them for free .
I've had many Whites and I'm using a MX5 now and really like everything about it and get tired of MX5 bashing myself only because of it's design looking like other Whites before it . But to me it's a different beast and one of those sleepers in the Whites line up . I'd really like to try a M6 and maybe I'll get the chance to make a trade with someone next season ... who knows . I'm glad I didn't sell it or trade it in for a MX Sport myself . And like you I HATE the return hassles as well . I haven't changed my mind that Whites are great machines BUT I not as confident about future trust in their quality . Happy Trails , Woodstock

 

[doc holiday232]

WoodStock in the ideal world companies Would inform their customers of real or potential problems with their products,but we are in Reality not Ideal. Hence the companies don't inform and the customers don't Trust--see the connection?

 

[Justme]

Lots of whining and going back and forth about this issue and that issue. Ive contacted whites and sent my unit back twice, once for firmware and I noticed some screen cracking. Most of us have more than one unit. If you have an issue contact them and send your machine in. They will take care of it.