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Holy Frijoles! bad ground

D

Downdeep

New member
Hunted here near Orange, VA today for about 9 hrs. I knew the ground was bad, but holy cow! I did a ground probe and in most locations, the ground vdi was a -92..not too bad, but the percentage came back at 50% plus or minus!! I had no way to filter that out and still use discrimination. I tried every ground filter but that didn't seem to make any difference. If anyone knows how, let me know, I'd give you my first born child. So, I ran mixed mode all day and dug what you see in the picture below. Also locked tracking and rebalance any time the machine got noisy and unstable. About 4 of the bullets came up in the discrimination mode while the others came up exactly like the 400 nails I dug. Oh, that and the 3 horse shoes. Dang they weigh down a finds bag!! Regardless, the V3i and I outhunted a LOT of the guys there with many different machines. I can't say it was the V3i as much as it was my tenacity to dig an unbelievable number of holes. One of the hunters found two us plates 10 feet from each other, a sweet find. Back at it tomorrow, but I believe day 3 will be a wash out. That might be ok with me because I'm not sure I'll be able to move by then. :detecting:

Let me know if any of you can suggest something different for the ground down here.
 
Thats a good haul for your first time in that crazy dirt. I would not change anything keep doing what your doing. Just go slow.And check other peoples covered dig holes I found as much stuff in dirt piles as i did in the ground
 
That sounds like some very tough ground and sorry I can't help you with that. You did find some nice stuff though......... go day two.......:thumbup:
 
I know you'll find a bunch more today man, keep after it....awesome job! I am sitting here waiting for my v3i to get delivered by fedex.....tick tock.....tick tock....I will probably be their last stop of the day....lookin forward to pictures of todays finds....how is Bill doin?
 
Hello there Deep !

Interesting report there regarding ground conditions.

-93 VDI and 50% strength is surely a tough location.

That's more like a cinder track than a natural field....and possible a wet one as well !

Can you recall your gain settings?.....for they relate to the % factor and need to be quoted for any later comparative purposes.

What was you minimum level of discrimination acceptance?.........I'm interested because of the amount of nails you referred to.

Of course nails can pop up as acceptable depending on their orientation.....vertical nails can be a 'pain in the bum'., especially if the soil is damp.

As you well know, in such tough ground, numbers don't particularly mean what they indicate, so do a four point scan and then dig anything above +15.

Don't forget to give Correlate a whirl, if you have the chance, for that will ease some of the burden.


I like kids, so I'll be happy to baby sit whilst you do the detecting !!!

Hope the next trip brings in a few special finds................Tex.
 
As stated, the 50% reading doesn't mean much without the RX reading. As the detector is run hotter the % will go up. In my soil running in the RX 12-13 range my soil is in the 20 - 28% range.
 
Hi guys
Here are the settings I ran most of the two days.

Gain 8
disc and AM sensitivity 85
ground filter 7.5 high (didn't notice any difference with any filter so just let it there)
recovery speed 80
autotrac off and had to rebalance about every three minutes
single frequency 7.5
mixed mode
discrimination accept down to -30

Let me know what I forgot and I'll tell you where it was set.

Very very few of the bullets gave a repeatable discrimination single. I was using mixed mode and dug any sound that gave me an AM signal. That included nails, big hunks of iron, bullets, buttons etc. My flower button today came up as a perfect discrim. signal in the bad ground but was within two inches of the top. If it had not been for using mixed mode I would not have gotten more than maybe 3 bullets and one button. I talked to guys today that had found nothing using a wide variety of machines. In talking to them I found there were using full discrimination.


here is todays finds, 3 round balls and one two piece flower button. Not as good as yesterday but still passable in this ground. A guy dug a US belt plate 15 feet from me. Lucky son of a gun!
 
Would it be beneficial to you to turn down your Rx to lower the percentage, then turn on the TX boost to give you more depth???
 
I had tried to run a lower gain and did notice a loss of depth on some signals. In other words, I would get a signal and adjust all kinds of stuff to see if I could make it better..or what would make it worse. The very first thing I did when I got in the field was to bury a quarter at 3". I knew it was bad when I could not pick the quarter up in discrimination mode. I got a null tone. Switched over to mixed mode and did get a solid all metal tone. That ground was BAD! In some areas I did run tx boost but found that the machine ran much more unstable than without it so opted to leave it off the majority of the time. There were a few fields I was in that had good topsoil and I was able to run as normal. Too bad everything wasn't like that.
 
That ground pushes the limits of machine and hunter, no doubt!!
Here is my final pic, assuming we don't decide to hunt in the snow tomorrow :stars:
 
Downdeep said:
Hi guys
Here are the settings I ran most of the two days.

Gain 8
disc and AM sensitivity 85
ground filter 7.5 high (didn't notice any difference with any filter so just let it there)
recovery speed 80
autotrac off and had to rebalance about every three minutes
single frequency 7.5
mixed mode
discrimination accept down to -30

Let me know what I forgot and I'll tell you where it was set.

Very very few of the bullets gave a repeatable discrimination single. I was using mixed mode and dug any sound that gave me an AM signal. That included nails, big hunks of iron, bullets, buttons etc. My flower button today came up as a perfect discrim. signal in the bad ground but was within two inches of the top. If it had not been for using mixed mode I would not have gotten more than maybe 3 bullets and one button. I talked to guys today that had found nothing using a wide variety of machines. In talking to them I found there were using full discrimination.
here is todays finds, 3 round balls and one two piece flower button. Not as good as yesterday but still passable in this ground. A guy dug a US belt plate 15 feet from me. Lucky son of a gun!
Click to expand...

***********************************************​

Hello again there Deep.

Thanks for the further insight to your detecting set-up for this tough area you are battling with.

You can see from the "Quote" highlighted parts, those aspects which I find interesting.

My comments are just personal thoughts and not 'magic bullet' solutions, because each individual swings his detector differently to the next guy, and that adds a variable to all aspects of matters being discussed.

GAINS:- This is one tough site, so high gain is NOT to be used.

Even theoretically, from the figures you've quoted, a one inch diameter copper coin could be almost undetectable at 3 or 4 inches....depending on the frequency used.

So that leads nicely to me asking, " Why only 7.5 KHz ?".

Why not 3 frequencies, or certainly 2.5 KHz single?

Perhaps you have tried the full gambit and reached the conclusions that 7.5 KHz was the best compromise..?

With 3 frequencies I'd be looking for the best visual correlation/alignment of any two sets of bars, to give me a clue to a target's genuineness.

Using 'mixed mode audio' prompts me to ask/recommend, that you use a fast SAT setting.

The - 30 low disc acceptance is why you are having to dig so many nails....Is it worth it?

All this is 'distant' speculative thinking....but mindful of the fact that you're the guy in the pilot's seat, so I respectfully realise you will have the real experience of what works in your situation.

Keep us up to date with the results of any tests...........Thanks for your feedback......Tex.
 
Deep and I talked, and it seems like he did as good or better than most. This was a BIG hunt with many people and different machines.
 
I talked to George, he used to live in Va.

 
Sounds good. The only thing I didn't think of trying was the salt settings. I tried all the other adjustments to get the machine as stable as I could spending a LOT of time with it. What I had set was as quiet and as deep as I could get it to run compromising a little on both to get the right balance. I did well compared to most as it were so am not disappointed. Whenever you see someone pull a buckle out just a few yards away, it doesn't matter what machine you are running, it gets frustrating. But, that buckle was 3" down and a radio shack el cheapo would have found it.

Texasranger, you asked about why I had my discrimination acceptance set so low thinking that is why I was getting nails. When I say nothing came in with a discrimination tone, I mean EVERYTHING read below -30...everything. Nails, bullets, buttons... everything. The ground was THAT bad. When I buried the quarter at 3", it came in below -30. It was discriminated out in discriminate mode. I believe that I could have taken the time to try to tweak the machine to giving me tones where the good targets came in as negative numbers, but I just ran mixed mode using the all metal part. I think I got one button and two bullets that came up in discriminate side of it, but they were in slightly better ground and still read below a +15...where the .69 bullet I dug should have read in the 60's.

Its tough to describe what it is like there. I thought I'd go down and do better knowing the machine..but it is a different world. That ground will quickly separate the men from the boys and the machines from the toys. Hang7575 can back me up on that one.
 
Well Deep, the final solution is to use the White's eclipse SHOOTER. dd,...Yeah man....


They will all laugh their search-heads off for sure, when they see you toting that little serpent....

But always remember,"He who laughs last, laughs best"

Three Frequencies.....and note the strongest indicator when you pin-point the target.

I imagine that the red 7.5 will be the 'must dig' indicator for non ferrous targets.

If and when you find a 'productive spot, just simply stand still, and work it to death.

So Deep......I guess that's the last offering from me, because I don't want to be responsible for your early demise and a candidate for the knackers yard !!!!!!!

Have fun, just wish I were there with you to enjoy the hunt. ......Tex
 
I have that coil. Do you think it would pick up the bullets at a foot in that ground? I know it hasn't picked up a quarter at a foot in my yard.
 
I lose about 50 to 60% depth with the 4x6 shooter double D on the same coin in my test bed. It does work very well however when you are pulling targets from 7 inches and less in trashy or multiple target areas, like I was this morning. i wonder if he is talking about the 6x10?
 
No that coil sure wouldn't get that depth for me. You'd have a heck of a time covering the fields you guys were hunting in.
 
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