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From Fisher CZ to Minelab Sovereign
- Thread starter straker
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
You're going to dig deeper coins with the Sovereign. One thing that took me a while to get used to on the Sovereign is that target response is much wider, making coins sound like a large piece of metal. You'll also find that a locked on target value and smooth sound means it's probably a round shaped object. You can really avoid the junk with the Sovereign by paying attention to this.
Few years ago I used the entire CZ line except the CZ21.Very deep and great silver unit. The Sovereign is the opposite of the CZ which loves iron,yelp I have dug lots of old nails and barb wire at some locations.My favorite model the newer CZ5 but all are great.I don't like to check targets with four way hits to eliminate iron.'Still a contender as a top 10 detector.My friend is a Whites dealer and still hangs on to his CZ as a backup for his V3i.My favorite detectors are the Sovereign,Explorer and 1235 or 1236X-2 for my hunting needs.The Sovereign is deeper coil par coil matched and doesn't even hiccup with iron. HH Ron
JASONSPAZ1
New member
In the late 90's I went from a CZ6a to a Sovereign XS2a. I remember it was a 2a since it had a toggle to turn off the the id. Anyway I have stayed with the Sovereign line ever since. The first thing I was grateful for when going from the ZC to the SOV was the awesome ground canceling and iron rejection of the Sovereigns.
The CZ was to hot on iron and the Sovereign sliced through it.
You wont regret the switch.
HH
Jason
The CZ was to hot on iron and the Sovereign sliced through it.
You wont regret the switch.
HH
Jason
I'm boouncing around with a bunch of different detectors ......I have a love/ hate relationship with my Sovereign's ...... My buddies CZ21 just blew EVERY detector out of the water down at Ocean City NJ this last weekend !!...... I was the looser with my AT Pro hitting a 7.5 grm gold ring at 9 inches in wet , salt , sand ......Next was a modded Excal with a Doc's amp and a 10 inch coil that hit the same ring at 12 inches ......The winner was a box stock CZ21 with a 10 1/2 inch coil .....It hit the same ring at 15 inches very repeatable ...... I'm still VERY HAPPY with my E Trac in the dirt , but I'm getting really happy with my CZ6a on the beach !!...... I didn't run it last weekend as I wanted to test out my AT Pr that I just got back from Garrett for an updated shaft and better waterproffing ....Not to shabby at all for an inexpensive machine ....... You guys that are putting your CZ's in the closet and running Sovereign's now , I'll be happy to by them from you !!......Jim
I think it all boils down to what works best for you and what type of hunting you are doing. I am partial to CZ's since they are my main detector for the last 15+ years and I have had very good results with them. I just picked up a Sov GT for beach hunting and it is a great unit too. If the Sov helps you hunt through sites you hunt that have a lot of iron and you feel confident in it, then that's the unit for you.
One of the things that I had to get used to was the DD coil vs Concentric. Since I know my CZ's, I don't dig much iron, but for a person who is looking for a unit that does well in iron and does not want to put in lots of hours learning a unit's language in iron ( ie, what one would have to do with a CZ to get used to how a CZ 'talks' in iron. A lot more ear training for this) , the Sov is the unit to get.
One of the things that I had to get used to was the DD coil vs Concentric. Since I know my CZ's, I don't dig much iron, but for a person who is looking for a unit that does well in iron and does not want to put in lots of hours learning a unit's language in iron ( ie, what one would have to do with a CZ to get used to how a CZ 'talks' in iron. A lot more ear training for this) , the Sov is the unit to get.
Jim, I agree the CZ is still a great detector.My problems has always been the iron issue. I have seen a lot of good deals on CZs. I don't think these newer detectors can match the CZ on a beach or water and is a bargain.HH Ron
As far as the CZ21 winning the depth test, it's probably because its' coil is a 10 1/2" Concentric/Co-Planar design.
While this design may be deepest, the search pattern (at say 15 inches) may only be the size of a pea... That means a lot of overlapping is required, whereas a DD coil (Sovereign/Excalibur) might not be deepest, but would cover more ground. On a beach, that would be my choice! Just a thought.
While this design may be deepest, the search pattern (at say 15 inches) may only be the size of a pea... That means a lot of overlapping is required, whereas a DD coil (Sovereign/Excalibur) might not be deepest, but would cover more ground. On a beach, that would be my choice! Just a thought.
Mick, in that situation with the CZ-21. I run it in Autotune with max sens. Auto tune is a VCO all metal mode. Has a very wide detecton path like the DD coils. Although not as deep as Disc 0. The 15in ring target was as big as any other mid depth target i tested that day. I was able to pick it up when walking over it. It was crisp and clear.
EZ
EZ
Critterhunter
New member
Minelabs don't like freshly buried targets for one thing. A better test would be on a coin or ring that has sat in the ground for several months. Also, next time you try the test try lowering the sensitivity on the Excal down. I've found that maxing out sensitivity to the edge of stability doesn't always give best depth. Targets will degrade or completely null sometimes at max stable sensitivity. This was in particular true of the 15x12 coil but I've found on occasion that it's true for the stock 10" coil and the 12x10, though most of the time they want to ride the edge of stability. Much of the reason behind this depends on the soil matrix and any nearby RF noise. That's why I like to stick a silver dime in the ground and play with sensitivity first at a new site. On those occasions where it wanted a lower sensitivity it was often at about the 1 to 2PM position, or right around the "C" in the word noise cancel on the GT's face plate. The other odd thing is that the lower I set sensitivity the faster it wants the sweep speed, while the higher I set sensitivity the slower it wants me to sweep.
" Minelabs don't like freshly buried targets for one thing. A better test would be on a coin or ring that has sat in the ground for several months."
So from this statement , I guess it's safe to assume that the Minelab machines that I own would not be the best choice for hunting fresh drops on the beach, in the wet salt sand , after a weekend of hundreds of people on the beach ...... Sounds to me like the CZ would be a better machine for this kind of hunting ......OldBeechnuts modded Excal didn't seem to have any problem hitting a freshly buried gold ring at 12 inches ...... and that was with a 10 inch coil ..... Now I AM confused .......Jim
So from this statement , I guess it's safe to assume that the Minelab machines that I own would not be the best choice for hunting fresh drops on the beach, in the wet salt sand , after a weekend of hundreds of people on the beach ...... Sounds to me like the CZ would be a better machine for this kind of hunting ......OldBeechnuts modded Excal didn't seem to have any problem hitting a freshly buried gold ring at 12 inches ...... and that was with a 10 inch coil ..... Now I AM confused .......Jim
Critterhunter
New member
Much of the reason why Minelabs don't like freshly buried targets is due to trapped air. Minelabs hate air and that's why they don't air test well. It isn't just about halos around targets and such. If it's a "fresh drop" coin or ring that has only sat in the sand for a few days it shouldn't be a problem so long as nature has taken care of any air from disturbed ground. This is also why Minelabs don't perform at top performance in freshly tilled ground such as a crop field.
Critterhunter
New member
A friend of mine has had a CZ6a for years. When I had a QXT Pro we would often compare targets before digging them and my QXT was deeper. Several times what I knew was going to be a deep silver dime read like a pulltab or iron on his CZ. As deep as the QXT was, it's not nearly as deep by a long shot compared to my GT. There was a day and time when the CZ line set the standard for depth in metal detecting. Nothing could touch them depth wise, but they suffered from getting fooled by iron and also rather poor discrimination ability. He often wouldn't hunt trashy areas that my QXT had no problem with.
Neil
Well-known member
" There was a day and time when the CZ line set the standard for depth in metal detecting. Nothing could touch them depth wise"
The CZ line came out when the Sov did, they were often compared to each other, especially on the beach forums. Just like the Sovs, they still get the same depth today that they did when they came out.
The CZ line came out when the Sov did, they were often compared to each other, especially on the beach forums. Just like the Sovs, they still get the same depth today that they did when they came out.
My CZ will not be taken to the dirt .....It's been established that the CZ has issues with Iron .....After my Sovereign had issues dealing with Masking issues , I will stay with my E Trac in the dirt ..... After this past weekend , I will probably stay wtih the CZ on the beach ..... I might just have another Soveriegn sale ...... I got plenty of cois and Sovereign gear to sell off , and buy a couple more CZ's .......JIm
Critterhunter
New member
Back in the day the circles I ran in didn't have a Sovereign, but everybody was always comparing other machines to the CZ because it set the standard for depth in those days. One of the reasons why I think they had the edge against other detectors was that they almost seemed to be running in all metal past about 6" in depth. That's why I think iron was such a problem for them. They had limited discrimination ability, at least at those depths.
Neil
Well-known member
synthnut said:
Jim I would be using a CZ also at the beach but for two main reasons. One is the concentric coils, at depth, they just dont offer the coverage the sov or etrac does. Did you notice that when you guys were testing? They really have that cone effect.
Second reason is you have to reground balance from wet to dry sand and you dont with the BBS/FBS detectors. Thats a real plus right there alone, what a time saver.
DD coils would have helped the CZs in a few ways, especially the iron issues you always read about. Personally I never found it as bad as I read about. and their ID at depth I found to be very good. They are still excellent detectors that get excellent depth.
Critter: I was just quoting you when you posted nothing could touch a CZ in depth, that the Sov was introduced around the same time and there used to be frequent discussions on which was actually the king of the beach.
Jim a reminder on the beach using a sand scoop the coin or ring can fall back into the hole LOL. Tabdog use to have this effect with his Compadra.HH Ron