figuring out Tesoro sounds

[MarkCZ]

Well said

Okay, it would have been even better if I could get it straight!

Well, you still have the problem of good and bad sounds with a multi-tone detector, just because it breaks down the target range into three or four groups doesn't mean that when a target falls into one of the groups that its a good target.
I had a Whites XLT with the option to turn on tone ID or turn it off (single tone) It worked better for me as a single tone detector, my other multi-tone detectors are fine.

Mark

 

[BillF]

I still have and use Tesoros. They have their place for different uses, but when I had my Vaquero as my main machine I found myself NOT enjoying hunting anymore. I came home angry and frustrated more often then not.
My suspicion is that will be what happens to cdsmith46 in time. Its a shame.
No detector is foolproof but I will say that the detector I use now is a tone and meter machine. I can go into the most trash infested areas and pick coins out by the tone,every time. I have dug every signal I get for 9 months now and only get fooled by crown caps that are folded over. I could never do that with the Vaquero.
I am happy for those that like the V, more power to you. But dang, don't tell me or others that you can tell trash from treasure just by the sound, then bash a tone machine and say its missing good targets because it isn't correct or because relying on the numbers makes you skip good targets, you're doing the exact same thing by saying "this sounds like trash" and deciding not to dig.
I will keep using the 2 Tesoros I have, and will enjoy hunting.
I hope cdsmith46 is able to enjoy his Cibola but if not I hope he dumps it and gets something he can use effectively.

 

[Hombre]

Ok BillF.......

Exactly what trash targets are you avoiding with your metered detector? If you are in the right location, pulltab range signals are sometimes gold rings, even had a choice Indian wars Cavalry Crossed Sabre hat pin come in at the pulltab range. A pair of cival war Infantry eagle buttons dropped out past pulltab range one time. How about zinc penny signals, you going to pass those? I dig every one of them and I am sometimes rewarded with a Indian head penny or one time an outstanding Allis Chalmers tractor watch fob.. even a large men's class ring. Ok, how about foil, most of the time it is foil, but sometimes it's a thin gold ring if in the right location. The thing I'm trying to convey here is.......Location is the key to finding the good stuff. In the old home sites, I dig everything above iron nails. By the way I do have metered detectors too, but they are used for cherry picking in the manicured lawns of older occupied home sites. And last but not least, rusty, crimp on, crown bottle caps, I found a pair of Indian head pennies under one of those one time, remember to re-sweep your holes. Just my observations over the years and my biased outlook on trash hunting.

 

[square_nail]

I think some are over-thinking the sounds. I hope I can help in that regard. Here's what I found with my Vaquero.

After locating a target, cross over it from side-to-side and front-to-back (I tell my kids to remember "North, South, East and West").

If you get a nice, solid beep from all 4 directions, it's a good target. Dig!

If the signal is not repeatable or breaks up from any one of the 4 directions ("North, South, East and West") you have to make a decision. The machine is telling you that there's a good chance that target is trash or at least of a conductivity level below your disc setting. Being a stat-geek, I started digging all iffy signals and recording my finds. If a signal is not a good solid beep from all 4 directions, there's an almost 95% chance the target is junk.

You might ask, "What about those 5% of iffy signals that turn out to be good?" By all means dig them, BUT ONLY AFTER CLEARING OUT ALL THE "GOOD" SIGNALS. Think about it. If you're hunting a new site, you want to make the best of your time there by digging as many high percentage signals as possible. If you're digging iffy signals that will pay off only 5% of the time, you might not even get to one good signal before the end of the day. Plus you'll end up with a pouch full of junk. I think that's where some people get frustrated.

While it's true that many experienced Tesoro users can tell subtle nuances in the tones, I can't. I have hearing damage and am pretty much only able to tell a good beep from a scratchy, broken up one. But that's all you really need to know if you use the "North, South, East and West" method.

Another tip; if you're having trouble picking good targets out of old iron-laden sites, don't turn your disc up more. Turn it down. Seriously. When the disc is set just above iron, enough to make nails crackle, the detector can do a better job of picking out higher conductive targets from the iron. Try it yourself by surrounding a dime with a bunch of rusty nails and cross over it with different disc settings.

Tesoros are truly great machines. Their discrimination circuitry is amazingly accurate and their recovery time between targets is second to none. If you understand their strengths and weaknesses, and use them to your advantage, I think you'll find they're as good or better than any other machines on the market (No affiliation with Tesoro. Just a big fan).

Happy hunting all,

 

[Fish N Chips]

I also have hearing trouble from a blown ear drum in a dive accident and too much shooting without hearing protection. I went with Tesoro due to the reputation, light weight and simplicity. I read about the Tesoro tone when I got my first Tesoro, a Silver Umax. I started with it by digging everything along with thumbing the knob. I found thumbing the knob was actually very accurate at determining targets and I still use it, but not quite as much. Trouble is my Silver makes a lot of targets sound good, at least to me. I still get fooled by aluminum, tabs and bottle caps, but usually suspect what they are before digging. You just never know when that ring will pop out!

I later decided to get a machine I could ground balance for some mineralized sites, but also wanted the same audio tone as my Silver as I found it pleasant and figured it would shorten the learning curve some. The Vaquero was a close call but I found the lower audio too hard for me to hear. I ended up finding a used Eldorado "Umax" on Ebay which had the same audio, or so I though. My first trip out I found the machine had the same tone but a real language to it. I can not explain it but it was like it just clicked. I suddenly was able to go along and say "that sounds bad" on trash and, that " ohhh, that is a good one!" I am not sure if it just clicked due to my time with the silver, but do believe it is partially the machine. My Eldorado is my go to machine now. I still use the Silver but it is more of a loaner and backup. It is like my brain filters the sound and a little voice says dig. Also looking for the repeatable signals is really key. I sometimes thumb the dial on questionable targets, but I find if it is questionable it is trash. Nails do grunt and crackle a bit, tin is too loud, iron is usually large and overloads a bit, coins are sweet and a nice full sound, Bobby pins tend to double beep/click, gum wrappers ring high but crackle, soda cans sound good but are too large.

I still get fooled, but not as much as I used too. I do set limits so I do not burn myself out by deciding if I am in a dig it all mood or a cherry pick mood. I usually start the hunt by digging everything to get my ears and mind working. As the hunt progresses I start turning the discrimination up. I like keeping it fun and can only dig so much in a day. I have migrated more to older sites now and some of my better finds are iron. I have been able to pull some good high conductors out of square nails and rusted tin just by going slow and waiting for that little voice to yell at me. I was hunting a burned down tack shed with cut nails everywhere. By going really slow I pulled several small brass buckles and leather rivets out of the nails. There is some great advice here, but time on the machine will be your best teacher.

Some day I would like to try a VDI or multi tone machine just to see what they are all about, but really have no complaints from my Tesoros. They are easy and accurate machines and do their job well. I am sure I dig more trash, but also make some really exciting finds, and that is what it is all about. Good luck!

 

[x99]

@Fish N Chips
Nice comment.
I was looking for Eldorado uMax on youtube, but I found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxz6oueP4t0
Could you tell me please, if there is a difference between the "Eldorado" and this one?
Thanks.

 

[BillF]

Hombre,
I'm not avoiding any trash. I hunt in AM, and have been digging everything. Its just that when I get that high tone that says coin or ring, that's what it is.
I found lots of great targets with my Vaquero but I also spent so much time chasing signals I thought were good to find out that it was just junk. I've been at this for 40 years and used Tesoro for 30 of those. I'm not a noobie. I gave the Vaquero a fair shake, it just wasn't for me.
Like I said, I still have and use a couple of Tesoros for different applications. I also use an Xterra 705 which didn't cost me any more than a Tejon. I look forward to getting out hunting, again. That's really what its all about.
I didn't make my comment to cause any issues.

 

[homebre]

Excellent post. I have been using a "V" for over 2 years now, and I will try some of your tips.
Andy from Hillsborough

 

[Fish N Chips]

@Fish N Chips
Nice comment.
I was looking for Eldorado uMax on youtube, but I found this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxz6oueP4t0
Could you tell me please, if there is a difference between the "Eldorado" and this one?
Thanks.

Those Gold UMax would be a great machine and truly have the multi-tones. The Eldorado is still a single tone machine like the Silver, Vaquero, Cibola, ect.. It just operates at a lower frequency and has the higher audio tone. I read it was the precurser to the V. I like that the Eldorado and my Silver can share coils. The Eldorados can be hard to find and seem to have a following. I Iike its no-motion all metal mode. I found a 1860s curry comb along a foundation wall with it as I could not swing the coil in the rubble. The ground balance also carries over between the all metal and discrimination. A lot of the newer machines seem to have a pre-set ground balance, which actually works well. I find it smoother operating and it runs quieter than my Silver in trashy sites, but theorize it is due to the ground balance and frequency shift switch to eliminate cross talk and EMF, but it may just be I got a good machine. I do find it does not air test much better than my Silver, but it pulls some deep targets out of sites. I pulled a silver cross out from 9-10" the other day, but I am lucky to air test over 6-7". My next machine will likely be a dedicated gold machine.

 

[x99]

Thank you for the answer. You probably saw the video above. Can "Eldorado" notch out pull tabs like the guy in that video with his machine? Is it really working that great in reality (not on the ground, but 1-3 inches in the soil)?
What about bottle caps, or screw caps? Do you have any problems with it?
If the Eldorado/Golden uMax works that well in reality, I will throw my Deus away and buy a Tesoro. I don't care if it's single tone, or multi-tone (I'm using single tone on the Deus, because it irritates me, when a target is positioned between 2 different tones).

 

[Oldguy]

This is an excerpt from the Tejon tips and tricks article I mentioned earlier. I don't know if other Tesoro detectors respond this way, you guys let me know. Hope this helps.

BASIC BEEP ANALYSES
The seemingly lowly "beep" is actually a rich storehouse of information on the
Tejon. It is composed of two principal components---the on/off transients
(i.e., the "b" and the "p") and the longer duration "ee." Both of these
components aid in lDing and estimating target depth with the "b" and "p"
being somewhat more useful in IDing a target and the "ee" taking the lead in
depth estimates.

NOTE: The discrimination circuitry in the Tejon is useful down to about 11"-
12". Beyond that depth, you must use the all-metal mode and are mostly
limited to "profiling" (although depth estimates can be made).

THE 'b' AND "p" ANALYSIS---In the all-metal mode, the information in these
components is minimal and, as noted, limited mostly to profiling and depth
estimates. In the discrimination mode, however, they really come alive and
there are some basic rules of thumb to go by...

1. On targets ABOVE the discrimination level you have set, the rise/decay
time of the "b"/"p" transients will be relatively long in duration. That is, they
will have a "smooth" sound. Shallower targets sound "full" and "smooth,"
deeper targets still sound smooth but can take on a "squishy," "less full"
character.

2. As your target's conductivity APPROACHES the discrimination setting, the
rise/decay time shortens and the "b" and "p" begin to sound more "abrupt."
It may still be a "good" target but its conductivity will be closer to the cut-off
point. For example, if you have your discrimination set to just accept zinc
pennies, the zincs will sound more "abrupt" than higher conductivity coins.

3. Targets EQUAL TO the discrimination setting will take on a "crackle"
character.

4. Targets BELOW the discrimination setting will either disappear or possibly
sound off as "pips" or "chatter."

5. When X'ing from different directions, listen for the "worst case" scenario.
That is, if you get a smooth response in one direction and a more abrupt "b"
or "p" in another direction, consider the more abrupt transient as the most
meaningful. (EXCEPTION: In masking situations you have to proceed to
analyzing the "ee" in beep; see below.)
As an example, steel crown caps with their convoluted rims will often sound
smooth in one sweep direction but you can almost always hear the "ra-ta-tatats"
of the edge in another sweep direction.

So, in summary, the "worst smoothness" of the "b" and "p" in any sweep
direction gives you the best indication of where the target falls in relation to
your discrimination setting.

THE "ee" ANALYSIS---The "ee" in the "beep" is most obviously useful in
estimating the size and depth of an object. But its value extends beyond that.
Similar to the "b" and "p," listening carefully to the "ee" can provide useful ID
info. Again, some rules of thumb...

1. Targets well ABOVE your discrimination setting will give a "full tonality
'ee"' (that will vary in duration depending on sweep speed and target size).

2. As a target APPROACHES the discrimination setting, the "ee" will sound
"thinner" and, perhaps, somewhat weaker.

3. Targets EQUAL TO the discrimination setting tend to given intermittent
"eg" sounds.

4. Targets BELOW the discrimination setting WILL GENERALLY LOSE
TONALITY. This latter quality can be useful in masking situations.
Masking---When a discriminated-out target is near a desired target,
sometimes a detector will fail to "see" the desired target. Many times, this
situation will reveal itself as an "ifft/" target, with an uncertain size and
different signals depending on sweep direction and/or speed. If shortening
your sweep fails to differentiate the possible two (or more) targets, listen fur
any sign of tonality. If the target(s) are completely below your discrimination
setting, there won't (in most cases) be any sign of tonality in the "ee." On the
other hand, even an occasional "ee' sound means you should probably dig it.

Exceptions: Sometimes large or problematical items (e.9., rusted iron, fruit
juice seals, washers, etc.) will power past the discrimination setting and give
a signal with tonality...I've yet to come up with a procedure to avoid these
types of mis-IDs. Also, in theory (but rarely in practice in my experience), the
conductivities of two "bad" targets can "sum" or "average" to give an
erroneous conductivity reading that's above your discrimination setting but
I've never encountered this with the Tejon (but I have with my ID machines).

Coins on edge.--Sometimes when you are sweeping a small target that you've
guessed is "good," you'll notice that the fullness (and duration) of the "ee"
may be somewhat less in one sweep direction than in another. In my
experience, a high percentage of the time this is a coin on edge.

Coin denomination---At a constant sweep speed, and with practice, you can
learn to tell with somewhat surprising accuracy, the difference between a
dime and a quarter by listening to the duration of the "ee" (and, therefore,
the size of the target), I can also usually (but not always) tell the difference
between a copper penny and a quarter, but not between a copper penny and
a dime. Zincs and nickels are handled with the dual discrimination of the
Tejon.

So, in summary, besides size and depth estimates, analysis of the "ee"
sounds can tell you how close to your discrimination cut-off point a target is
and can aid in the ID process.

This is already pretty long so I'll save depth estimates, dual discrimination,
etc. until next time.

In closing, let me state that to use the preceding tips optimally, you need a
good set of ears and a good set of headphones. You also will likely need
practice TRYING TO HEAR the cues. If you presently have "untrained ears,"
you may or may not be able to hear some of the subtle cues that the Tejon
provides.

Much like learning a foreign language (which initially sounds like gibberish), hearing these cues
takes practice before things start differentiating themselves and the "light
goes on".

 

[KennyD]

Wow oldguy! That is the best explaination of Tesoro sounds I've EVERY read. Thank you for taking the time to post it.
Much appreciated!

 

[Fish N Chips]

Thank you for the answer. You probably saw the video above. Can "Eldorado" notch out pull tabs like the guy in that video with his machine? Is it really working that great in reality (not on the ground, but 1-3 inches in the soil)?
What about bottle caps, or screw caps? Do you have any problems with it?
If the Eldorado/Golden uMax works that well in reality, I will throw my Deus away and buy a Tesoro. I don't care if it's single tone, or multi-tone (I'm using single tone on the Deus, because it irritates me, when a target is positioned between 2 different tones).

There is no notch discrimination on the Eldorado. While the Eldorado is a good machine is in not the end all, do not toss that Dues. I have read they are a great detector and have seen Pond Guru make some nice finds with his. Mine hits on bottle caps and pull tabs, but it comes down to what you are hunting for. If I am after gold rings, I dig most the good sounding pull tabs and bottle tops. If I am after coins I have no trouble discriminating them out. If I am after relics I dig most everything, and do not have to worry about bottle caps and pull tabs at my old sites, only in the local parks and the beach. If you are asking if it can tell the difference between a pull tab and a ring, the machine may but I sure can't. There are too many pieces of gold bling that run the gambit between nickle and pull tab. I do notice the gold I have found sounds sweeter, but I don't rely on it.

I am a history and relic buff, so for my hunting I do not worry about it as much. My biggest challenge is working through the square nails which often ring high due to the alloys in them. When I hunt parks my chances of finding gold are slim as the area I live is pretty economically depressed. I usually crank the discrimination up in the parks for old and silver coins leaving the zink and pull tabs in the ground. The park across the street I have cleaned so much by sticking to my 30 min dig it all routine, I can really find some nice stuff and not have to worry about trash any more.

Depth I usually dig targets between 6-8 inches and the discrimination works well at those depths. I have gotten a few deeper finds, but they are rare. Most my sites have a hard pan or lava flow so I am not sure if the items can get any deeper? My curry comb I dug at 11 inches but that is a big piece of iron. I hope that answers your questions.

Oldguy, great post. That is an fantastic run down on the machine.

 

[square_nail]

Great post Oldguy. Will be saving that one. Lots of great information in that article.

 

[mojotrout]

dontcha just love a 4 page post with good conversation and good information?

Its the stuff that gets many of us through the winter.

After reading this, I might not wait for a Cazador and just jump on a Tejon!

 

[x99]

Thank you "Fish N Chips", you helped me a lot. I did not realise, the Eldorado had no notch feature.

I need a detector for parks. I was yesterday in an area, where I dug out trash only - about 20-30 different pull tabs in 50-80 VDI range. No coins, no rings, nothing. This place (like almost all parks in my area) was already hunted many times. "The others" are always throwing junk back into the hole.
Deus makes no difference. If you want good targets from the 50-80 range, you have to dig all. There is simply no way, to discriminate pull tabs. Sure, you can go by the numbers and notch a specific window, but you can say good bye to other targets in that range. If you listen to the sound, the Deus will not tell you any difference between trash and a good target. Pull tabs or foil are sounding great.

I was hoping that Tesoro could solve my problems. I don't like the Deus sound at all. Funny thing happened yesterday, as I was watching a video on youtube. It is not about chickens, but they are in the background. At 0:33 s. one chicken makes a noise exactly like the Deus! D) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MpOHcZcpho

Now I at least know what I can compare it to. The Tesoro on the other hand has a very nice noise (at least on video) (and to "my" ears). I know that one of the Tesoro machines will replace my Deus. I don't know yet, which one it will be. I was thinking about Tejon, because of the best depth, but now I'm not sure anymore. I'm also waiting for the Caz.

P.s. About finds. The location is the key. In some areas you can make many great finds even with the cheapest detector. In my opinion there is simply to much hype about some brands.

 

[oneguy]

I was yesterday in an area, where I dug out trash only - about 20-30 different pull tabs
.

You need a notch machine like my old Golden Sabre II......that thing doesn't even know what a pulltab is. Of course you also won't find any gold or nickels. I LOVE that notch and for coinshooting it can't be beat....!!!!!

If you want a Tejon....pm me

 

[ScottBuckner]

In terms of "sounds" that various targets make and how you read them, I'd say that's something that you'd need to learn by finding and digging the myriad of various things out in the field. The same thing might sound different to different people, and I don't think you can base the sounds you get from the detector you're using by comparing them to the detector you're not using. It's all a learning curve, and you pretty much learn the idiosyncracies of a detector by doing. Eventually, you do get a read on the different sounds, but it does take awhile ... so give yourself a good season or two. Pretty soon, you'll know what your detector is saying (pretty much) without even thinking about it.

 

[x99]

You need a notch machine like my old Golden Sabre II......that thing doesn't even know what a pulltab is. Of course you also won't find any gold or nickels. I LOVE that notch and for coinshooting it can't be beat....!!!!!

If you want a Tejon....pm me

Thank you, but the coin range is not problematic. I would sometimes like to hunt for different targets (like rings for example). But it is simply impossible in the area where i live. Even the cleanest park is full of pull tabs, foil, and screw caps. In a "better" place where I have a permission I simply can not dig all targets for the obvious reasons. My goal is to get rid of my biggest problem (pull tabs), without discriminating gold targets. I don't know if it is possible. It seems to work in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lxz6oueP4t0
I would like to know, if the Golden Umax is "the best" Tesoro for this kind of work.

 

[ScottBuckner]

This is the sort of environment where a metered detector would be more of a tool of choice, IMO -- because you'll get a numeric value on your target and you'll be able to see right off whether you're over aluminum junk or something closer to gold. Saves you a lot of trouble because it narrows things down when you want to hunt places in low/no disc. Metered detectors aren't *the* solution to everything, but they are *a* solution.