Dowsing and Detecting in combination?

[CZconnoisseur]

People are by nature spiritual - created in the image of God. Therefore people are by their very nature religious. We can evaluate their beliefs based on true science and an appeal to logic. Appeals to the 'unknown' and mysterious mind-powers are neither scientific or logical, especially when they fail every rational test - which dowsing does.

While no one can convince someone who has entered the world of irrationality - it is still worth affirming that the truth is not up for sale.

Johnnyanglo

OK you lost me...explain how you evaluate someone's belief in God using science - that's a new one for me. Also, while I don't disagree with dowsing's inability to be proven from a logical standpoint, fact is there are too many people who put it to use and get results - not everyone can or wants to believe in it, much less try it out; just like many people believe (or do not) in God.

But not to get off-topic...If dowsing seems to work for some people, and others not so much, then why discount it? Because it's not rational or scientific? So what...results are results!

 

[AngelicStorm]

People are by nature spiritual - created in the image of God. Therefore people are by their very nature religious. We can evaluate their beliefs based on true science and an appeal to logic. Appeals to the 'unknown' and mysterious mind-powers are neither scientific or logical, especially when they fail every rational test - which dowsing does.

While no one can convince someone who has entered the world of irrationality - it is still worth affirming that the truth is not up for sale.

Johnnyanglo

This is a good point that I can agree on. If I were having this argument, this same point probably would have been made, but in a slightly different way.

Many people do not believe in spirituality at all. Period! Many people believe in many gods. Many can believe in whatever without proof. Many need proof. Science and religion do not intermingle very well unless there is hard evidence or a good bit of logic to back up the theories. In this case like Johnny said, dowsing is mainly driven off of superstition or the same trusting belief in what one can not see or hear. I find it hard to believe something myself unless it is proven to me. An example is someone posting a video of an untampered dowsing session leading them to the "pot of gold" would go in my "book of review" also known as "book of skepticism" until there is a proven method of how it works. Even after it would be shown to be true one time or by coincidence, people can either choose to believe or not to believe. It boils down to the big words Gullible, Trust, or Ideology. Religion has similar influences in the world of ideals as believing the common or rather uncommon belief of dowsing. If it can be proven to me, be my guest. Until then, I remain a skeptical nonbeliever who would still play with some dowsing rods to see what they are capable of.

 

[INSAYN]

Sixth sense.

Everyone has it, not everyone taps into it as deep as others.
Having a hunch, a gut feeling, an instinct or an intuition.
None of them can be clearly explained by science, but they are felt by dam near everyone of every age, race, or religion.
Dowsing is an extention of the sixth sense. It doesn't require bent rods specifically, just some form of tool to get your sensories to extend beyond the body.

 

[DE-Digger]

I

 

[AngelicStorm]

Sixth sense.

Everyone has it, not everyone taps into it as deep as others.
Having a hunch, a gut feeling, an instinct or an intuition.
None of them can be clearly explained by science, but they are felt by dam near everyone of every age, race, or religion.
Dowsing is an extention of the sixth sense. It doesn't require bent rods specifically, just some form of tool to get your sensories to extend beyond the body.

Well I kind of do a have a sixth sense myself. It has been proven over and over rather I wanted to believe it or not. I can discern people. The most proving part comes when I meet a complete stranger and know exactly what they are "about" without being told anything. It happens almost 100% of the time. This is good because I know how to handle complete strangers. For the people I already know, it lets me know how to act at the moment.

 

[surfman]

Now that's funny right there.

I

 

[INSAYN]

Sixth sense.

Everyone has it, not everyone taps into it as deep as others.
Having a hunch, a gut feeling, an instinct or an intuition.
None of them can be clearly explained by science, but they are felt by dam near everyone of every age, race, or religion.
Dowsing is an extention of the sixth sense. It doesn't require bent rods specifically, just some form of tool to get your sensories to extend beyond the body.

Well I kind of do a have a sixth sense myself. It has been proven over and over rather I wanted to believe it or not. I can discern people. The most proving part comes when I meet a complete stranger and know exactly what they are "about" without being told anything. It happens almost 100% of the time. This is good because I know how to handle complete strangers. For the people I already know, it lets me know how to act at the moment.

My personal sixth sense tap is numbers and time. Not math numbers, I hate math, suck at math and anything to do with it, but test result numbers.
I have been able to predict test numbers on test values at work (for fun). Mine, or anyone elses for that matter. I have absolutely no way of knowing what these numbers could be any other way. It is particle counts from any test, on any tool. Although not the exact number of particles predicted, I usually get within 5 particles of what the actual value is. Note, normal values could be zero particles to several thousand particals.

The other being time, at any time throughout the day if randomly asked "What time is it", I can be within 10-15 mins of the time. I don't wear a watch so I can't even cheat.
My dad discovered this in my while fishing one day. I was running the boats trolling motor from the back of the boat, and he was sitting up in front. He asked me what time it was, and I rattled off a time that felt right to me in a matter of seconds. He asked how I came to that conclusion so quick without looking at my watch. I told him I don't have a watch, and my bare arms reflected this. I told him to turn around and look at the fish finder. There should be a clock on that. He's a big guy and completely blocked my view of it all day. He said, damn you were only off by minutes.

Later in the day while cleaning up stuff, and still nowhere near a clock, he asked me again to test me. Again, I rattled off a time and was dead on. This was at least 6 hours past the last time he asked. Now, whenever someone wonders what the time is, I say "hold on, and let me see if I can guess correctly". Nearly every time, I'm within 10-15 minutes.
I have noticed however for a few weeks after the Daylight Savings time changes, I can be waaaaayyy off.

I see odd things like this with other people all the time, and they may not even notice it themselves. I can comfortably believe they are genuine and not pulling a hoax.
Now those that advertise some skill for profit, or manipulate facts out of someone, I then tend to discount their validity.

Some folks tap their sixth sense, some don't. Some on purpose, some by accident.

When your hair stands up on your arm and put you into a tense feeling, pay attention!
When your gut says no, but your mind says yes, pay attention!
That random twich in your eye, itch behind the ear, odd tingle in your elbow, pay attention!
Your sixth sense is talking to you.

 

[AngelicStorm]

I can do the same thing with time. It can be explained because of some people have good eternal clocks. I believe a tiny portion of a person's brain is capable of calculating time and keeping up with it from any certain point. This can be approximate from experience, oh say like minutes to seconds off.

 

[Johnnyanglo]

To be more precise ... dowsing is an extension of the non-sense.

Something that doesn't exist cannot be the cause of something else that doesn't exist. If the mind had hidden powers to find buried treasure there would be uncovered treasures being revealed by 'mind-power' all over the world. Mind-power people would be rich (instead of huckstering LRLs made out of spare parts in the dowser's garage).

There are no real websites devoted to showing recovered finds based on dowsing ... apparently 'mind-power' with its sixth sense intuition is so little effective that it has a track record of zero.

In fact, selling junk LRL for big dollar$ to gullible people is an offense (if not illegal). I take a dim view of those involved in outright deception and lies.

Perhaps if someone has so little common sense that they believe a bent coat hanger will channel their sixth sense (or some mumbo-jumbo about 'coherent frequency modulation' and Tesla coils) to find hidden treasure (several miles away no less) then it could be claimed "an LRL advocate and his money are soon parted".

But then metal detecting is expensive and hard work, but gets real results ... the weak use a coat hanger that costs nothing, walk behind it at ease, but gets no results. There is no free lunch and no free buried treasure recovery out there.

Johnnyanglo

 

[INSAYN]

To be more precise ... dowsing is an extension of the non-sense.

Something that doesn't exist cannot be the cause of something else that doesn't exist. If the mind had hidden powers to find buried treasure there would be uncovered treasures being revealed by 'mind-power' all over the world. Mind-power people would be rich (instead of huckstering LRLs made out of spare parts in the dowser's garage).

There are no real websites devoted to showing recovered finds based on dowsing ... apparently 'mind-power' with its sixth sense intuition is so little effective that it has a track record of zero.

In fact, selling junk LRL for big dollar$ to gullible people is an offense (if not illegal). I take a dim view of those involved in outright deception and lies.

Perhaps if someone has so little common sense that they believe a bent coat hanger will channel their sixth sense (or some mumbo-jumbo about 'coherent frequency modulation' and Tesla coils) to find hidden treasure (several miles away no less) then it could be claimed "an LRL advocate and his money are soon parted".

But then metal detecting is expensive and hard work, but gets real results ... the weak use a coat hanger that costs nothing, walk behind it at ease, but gets no results. There is no free lunch and no free buried treasure recovery out there.

Johnnyanglo

Johnnyanglo,

Allow me to remind you what the question was from the OP that posted this thread.

"Dowsing and Detecting in combination?"

This would include input from those that do both, and not so much on who believes or does not believe in the dowsing side of it. I regret getting drawn into your debate on the validity of dowsing as this has pulled it away from the topic at hand. Furthermore, badgering the concept is not really in the spirit of the question, so please go start your own anti-dowsing thread elsewhere.
Much appreciated.


Now to support the OP here and get back on topic, I know there is a forum dedicated to just this topic exactly on another "Treasure" site.
There is a group of folks there that "Map/Photo Dowse" for folks that have a piece of land or area they are interested in metal detecting, or even prospecting at.
Map and photos are uploaded to the thread for the dowers to review, and then they reupload the maps or photos with areas marked indicating where they felt metal objects or minerals of interest gave them strong signals. They even go so far as to indicate that a particular item is shallow or deep.

 

[Digger]

Opinions vary........take for example the opinion of Albert Einstein, someone who certainly was willing to "think outside the box". Among his many accomplishments was the development of the general theory of relativity...... one of the two pillars of modern physics (along with quantum mechanics). His name is widely recognized for his mass

 

[Welwood470]

I can do the same thing with time. It can be explained because of some people have good eternal clocks. I believe a tiny portion of a person's brain is capable of calculating time and keeping up with it from any certain point. This can be approximate from experience, oh say like minutes to seconds off.

How does one acquire an eternal clock? Sure would like to have one of those. JK, I know what you meant. I think. BTW, really enjoyed your videos. Get busy.

 

[AngelicStorm]

I can do the same thing with time. It can be explained because of some people have good eternal clocks. I believe a tiny portion of a person's brain is capable of calculating time and keeping up with it from any certain point. This can be approximate from experience, oh say like minutes to seconds off.

How does one acquire an eternal clock? Sure would like to have one of those. JK, I know what you meant. I think. BTW, really enjoyed your videos. Get busy.

They are not your average clocks. First you have to tap into your inner self. Second you have to dig into your CTX 3030 finds.......

Now that will be $2,595,000.00. If you can't pay now then I will except your 3030 as a fair trade.

About the videos.....
Rain rain go away and thanks!

 

[JW]

n/t

 

[Johnnyanglo]

="And I believe, as Einstein suggested, the human nervous system can react to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time"

That "reaction" Einstein alluded to is called the "ideomotor effect", something better understood today. Feel free to look it up.

For the curious, here is a link to a double-blind test done in Germany with dowsers and the results: Dowsing Testing

For the less curious, the results were the same as utter randomness. Just guessing would have yielded better results.

I know this will not dissuade the true believer - no evidence can persuade someone who hangs their beliefs on the imaginary.


Johnnyanglo

 

[INSAYN]

="And I believe, as Einstein suggested, the human nervous system can react to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time"

Blah "reaction" blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, "ideomotor effect", blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Dowsing Testing
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.


Johnnyanglo

What???

 

[Digger]

That "reaction" Einstein alluded to is called the "ideomotor effect", something better understood today. Feel free to look it up.

Based on your suggestion that the ideomotor effect is better understood today, indicates you may have confused Albert Einstein with James Randi, a Canadian-American stage magician and scientific skeptic .(Wikipedia's description, not mine). Since Einstein wasn't born until 1879, his suggestion that the human nervous system can react to certain factors which are unknown to us at this time" was made many years after Carpenter came up with what he termed the ideomotor effect . I find it interesting that, although many "unexplained" circumstances are dismissed as being an ideomotor effect.........the actual definition is, in and of itself, not thoroughly understood or explained either. From Wikipedia....."The ideomotor effect is a psychological phenomenon wherein a subject makes motions unconsciously; for example, the body produces tears in response to powerful emotions, without the person consciously deciding to cry."
An unconscious motion.............a circumvention of the conscious mind, if you will. Or to put it yet another way, a physical reaction resulting from unexplained communications with your subconscious mind. Unfortunately, skeptics find it more convenient to come up with a name for something mysterious or "unexplainable", rather than solve it. And in the case of divining or dowsing, even though it is mentioned in both the Old and New Testaments, skeptics have categorized it as an ideomotor effect. I view this discussion as being similar to a discussion folks might have regarding Evolution vs. Creation.....neither will be resolved on this (or any other) forum. As I said initially, I've not made an effort to combine dowsing and detecting. I simply stated my experiences with dowsing rods.

In closing, since I was the one who brought Albert Einstein into the conversation, I will leave you with a few of my favorite Einstein quotes:

"Most of us are using only ten to fifteen percent of our natural ability, 99% of the time."

"All our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike - and yet it is the most precious thing we have."

"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a [person] does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses their intelligence."

 

[Southwind]

It's a no win argument. Like the people who believe in UFO/Alien/Bigfoot and those who think they're nuts. You'll never convince either to change their minds all you can do is disagree/argue.

I remember when the 10" coin was thought to be imaginary by many, Some still believe so today.

I saw what I saw and nothing is going to convince me otherwise.

 

[Johnnyanglo]

Evolution vs. Intelligent Design is fundamentally a discussion between two theories, both based on the same evidence, and which best explains the evidence. The collected body of evidence is not debatable. These are the facts. But the assumption that some rock is a million years old or some skull is a proto-human, these are interpretations. Interpretations are subject to the facts and the laws of science. Thus, the theories can be shown to be unlikely or invalid because they oppose the facts and the law.

Likewise, if we say two coat hangers can find a buried gold coin two miles away based on the power of the brain, then we can test this. Is the theory based on the known facts and the laws of nature (and nature's God)? From this we can conclude if the theory is unlikely or invalid.

When we subject evolution to the facts and the laws of science it is in strong opposition. Therefore, it is an unlikely or invalid theory. Yet, people believe in spite of its flaws because they reject where the opposing theory leads (to God). Likewise, people believe in dowsing, astrology, faith healing, crystal energy, and many other things that oppose the known facts and laws of science. People are subject to their bias and will behave illogically based on their false facts and false science. Hence, we are stuck with unfounded wild explanations for things that can't actually occur and have never been seen to occur.

Now, as for Bigfoot - there is some evidence for this animal, which makes it more likely than unlikely. When someone captures a Sasquatch the debate will be over. When someone passes a double-blind test with their dowsing rod - then the debate is over. The probability is more in favor of Bigfoot being discovered in the wild than someone with a dowsing rod finding a pot of gold.

Ya know, Einstein is said to have believed it was impossible to tame the atom to produce safe energy. He was wrong. If Einstein really believed in dowsing ... he would be twice wrong.

Johnnyanglo

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I watched my late father dowse water with a fresh cut peach tree limb and he could hold it so tight that the bark would peel off in his hands as it dipped down . Hard to fake that not to mention the great wells that were drilled . I have found numerous buried water/sewer and power lines over the years with a couple of bent wires as well .Once located a buried water line and the city man told me no line was there on their maps but when they dug found an old water line long abandoned by the city ......

Scientist discover "new truths" every day that were previously considered unlikely if not impossible ....