Digging in parks play grounds?

[396nova]

I have had a MD for about 10 years, but used it mostly to find things I dropped in my yard while working on something, or actually searching my yard. I have gone to local parks a few times in the past, but limited my searches to the surface. I had some success, but nothing to get excited about. Now, with my renewed interest in MDing, and a new MDer, I want to improve my success. This forum has taught me, you have to dig. I have read a few posts where members have had some problems, but most seem to dig without problems. I know about the hinged plug and to respects others property, even the cities or state. I have practiced digging in my yard, and when I am done you can barely tell I had dug. Are there laws or rules against digging? Have you ever been asked to stop? What do you say to an average citizen, if asked, "why you are digging?" I am interested in your experiences when digging.

Thanks
Bob

 

[JimGilmore]

Be honest. I'm searching for dropped coins and removing any other scrap metal dropped into the play ground.. Then show them the handfull of nails and bobby pins I have found .

 

[798hand]

you have to check the local laws for your area stop in at your city hall

 

[Tom_in_CA]

You ask: "Are there laws or rules against digging?"

Yes, in any public location, in some form or fashion or wording, there will be prohibitions against digging. The word "digging" may not necessarily be used in the city, county, state, or federal park rules. But in some fashion, it will be there. Eg.: "disturbing", "molesting", "altering", "defacing" "vandalizing" or something to that effect.

So if the question is phrased that way, you might as well give up metal detecting, and choose another hobby. Unless you intend to only retrieve targets on top of the ground, or stick to private property, etc...

Here's the catch though: In the case of any of the words used above, they ALL clearly imply an end result, DO THEY NOT? In other words: digging what?? HOLES is implied, right? And "holes" clearly implies end results, right? Same for the other words: disturbing, altering, defacing, etc.... are all non-issues, if there is nothing "defaced", nothing "disturbed", nothing "altered", etc..... You left it in the same exact position it was when you got there. Oh sure, this doesn't solve the temporary evil interim process of retrieval. So again, if this is something that makes you feel awkward, you're going to have to hunt private property. I just don't see any way around that. Beach/sand may be an exception to this, but for turf, it's highly doubtful you can ever waltz into city hall and say "hi, can I dig holes in city park??" and get someone to gleefully answer "sure, go ahead".

So for this reason, I do not consider digging clauses, disturbance, defacement, vandalism, and all the other such wordings to apply to us, if you leave no trace of our presence. This won't gaurantee you 100% that someone "won't take issue" with you (even when you have utter and absolute permission from the mayor himself, those things get just as quickly revoked when some busy-body neighbor or gardener calls city hall to complain).

Therefore .......... like nose-picking, you gotta be a little more discreet than to go at high noon in full traffic time at the park. Pick low traffic odd-ball times (like after 5pm's when park people have drifted for the day. Or 5am to 7am, etc.... For me, I've actually gotten to where I simply do most of my park hunting at these odd hours, or even at night. For sure, if I arrive at a park, and see that it's maintenance day (lawn-mowing crews out), or simply too many people, I just choose another location. Not necessarily because I think I'm doing anything wrong, but just to avoid someone else arriving at any connotations, to begin with.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Let me ask you this then, if someone checks for themselves (looking it up for themselves in city park code), and does see something that has words to the effect of "defacement", "disturbing", "altering", etc..... , then do you consider this to be confirmation that a person can not detect there? If so, this has effectively cut off 100% of the parks in the USA. Because gauranteed then, such verbage is in every single park, everywhere. There are scores of parks where you can detect till you're blue in the face, and ......... as millions of forum posts show, it simply goes on, and no one cares. Do you think those people are doing it in parks where such verbage is not there ...... somewhere? No, it simply means they are covering their holes, not leaving any trace, being discreet with their timing (so as not to be "asking for trouble"), etc.....

I can think of lots of parks that have been detected for 40 yrs, and continue to be detected with no problem (even with digging involved). But gauranteed, if someone were to walk into city hall and look to see if there's any prohibitions on digging, he would certainly find it, in some form or fashion.

 

[MarkCZ]

Places that forbid metal detecting will have signs saying No Metal Detecting, Most parks has signs stating rules for the park, you know,
Park closes at 10:00 PM,
Pets must be on a leash,
No bicycles on the walking paths,
ect....
Always check these signs before detecting!

Its the norm here to not use large digging tools in parks,
Always fill in your holes the best you can,
Take your dug trash with you or dispose of it properly (trash Cans)
Ect...

Mark

 

[TerraDigger]

Here's my spin...........posting of signs does not always occur in prohibited areas. You still get nailed for violating the law. It's up to the detectorist to verify individual parks/city/state/federal regulations. Lack of signage don't get you off.
The other is Tom CA's interpretation which is the State of California's interpretation. Which is pretty much a pure ban on metal detecting 'All" state property if CA wanted to enforce it. Example.CA state beaches. Most are OK to detect, no one gets hassled. But technically, it is illegal.
In my city in Idaho, I checked with the City Clerk, who researched the city regulations and found no prohibitions regarding metal detecting in parks/city property. I had her email me a letter staing such. Other local cities allow it with conditions, such as only a max 1/2" wide 8" length tool can be used (screwdriver). Others require a permit and proof of proper extraction techniques per their criteria.
Bottom line. Ya better know a localities laws. And yes, I do see police in their cars watching me sometimes. But I follow the reg's so I smile to myself and keep on.

 

[Goldstrike]

My advice is to look for a local metal detecting club and ask them if m/ding is allowed in the parks in your town. Rather than ask at City Hall and get buried in the laws and bylaws and end up being discouraged, ask those that are experienced m/der's, they will tell you from their personal experience. Like Tom_in_CA stated, you'll find that the local laws are buried in legalese and they are written that way so as to cover all situations.
Metal detecting in parks can be great fun and very rewarding. Depending on how old the park is, you can find very old coins, rarely gold but more often silver and clad. If I was a newbie to the hobby, I would recommend starting in the tot-lots. Some park swings, slides and climbing structures etc; are set in sand and the chances of finding jewellery and sometimes rings go up! so take a sand scoop/sieve to work the sandy areas. Most of them are set in some form of bark/wood chips etc; so a probe is needed as well.
I would prefer using the word 'detecting' rather than 'digging'. People do not understand the methods we use i.e. 'hinging' the plug, using a drop cloth to leave the area clean and looking undisturbed. Taking the ring pulls, screw tops, foil and nails etc; out of the park. All they see is we 'dig' big ugly holes that people can trip up on and the park crews see us as making more work for them...not good.....also if a city official see's you, they will see it as a possible law suit!!! so be as discreet as possible. Avoid a park where city parks and rec; crews are mowing, fixing, maintaining the park. Go after work hours in those cases, avoid close proximity to people, go through the week when most people are at work......be discreet and FILL YOUR HOLES!
Remember, the metal detector is only as good as the operator so it's vital to know your machine and be proficient with your probe to zero in as best you can.
I have found an incredible amount of old coins, jewelry, rings both gold and silver and relics both from tot-lots and parks by detecting and creating a hinged plug to extract the target and leaving the area clean!
Now after all is said, go and have fun, enjoy meeting the 'curious' individuals, answer their questions and be friendly to all you meet and you will enjoy your days!!!

 

[TerraDigger]

I'll agree with GoldStrike. Never open a can of worms like using the word digging. I simply ask "what are the regulations regarding hobbyist metal detecting". That exact sentence. But I still check the laws. I don't follow fellow detectorists recommendations of legality, club or individual.
The "someone said it was ok" mentality doesn't work in most cases. And if someone with a hair up their a** wants to make an example of the poor detectorist, well, you see where I am going.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

terra-digger, you say:

"In my city in Idaho, I checked with the City Clerk, who researched the city regulations and found no prohibitions regarding metal detecting in parks/city property"

Ah but you see, you didn't ask the question in the right way, to that city clerk. You used the euphamism "metal detecting", and left out any mention of "digging" (I suspect). So let me ask you this: If I were to go to that same clerk tomorrow, and ask "Hi. Can I please dig in the grass at the park?" what do you think they would say? Heck, I probably don't even need to ask. I bet there's already a prohibition somewhere in the existing code there, which prohibits "defacing" or "altering" or "removing" or something to that effect.

The bottom line is this: you know full well that no one gives a durn, so long as you're not being a nuisance. Even if you'd never asked, you've probably never been questioned (forced to show your "permission"), right? So really now, this whole thing is a little like asking if it's ok to pick one's nose. Why ask? Does anyone really care? But sure, if anyone wants to ask the question "is there prohibitions on digging?" and if this really bothers them, then they've probably chosen the wrong hobby.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

terra digger, rather than ask a desk clerk "what are the rules regarding metal detecting" or "are there any prohibitions regarding metal detectors", why not just look it up yourself? I mean, aren't city rules usually posted on the city website somewhere? And if the city doesn't have a website, isn't the municipal rules and codes always available, for public viewing, on the front desk at city hall? If it is silent on the issue (metal detecting not-mentioned), then so be it. Why would you need to ask a live person?

The reason I say this, is because I have heard of persons doing what you suggest. They are careful to word it this way, for example: "Are there any prohibitions or rules about metal detecting?" (thinking that by wording it this way, it puts the burden of proof on the clerk to PRODUCE such an actual written rule). But this has often backfired. For example, one guy got an answer like this: "we would prefer you didn't" (as if the inquirer had been asking permission, rather than for any existing rules). When the inquirer objected and said "but where is that written?", you can guess what happens next: the clerk merely morphs something else to apply (harming earthworms, or anti-collecting verbage, or other such nonsense), and you can guess who's going to win that debate!

The bottom line is this: there have been a lot of parks where detecting is not a problem, UNTIL someone asks. This happened in my town, for instance: The parks here had simply been detected, since the dawn of detectors (as far back as the late 1960s) and it was just considered fair game (it never occured to anyone that you "needed to ask"). But lo and behold someone, one day, waltzes into city hall, and gets a "no" Then the newbie shows up at our club meeting, and hears someone say "found at central park". The newbie objects and says "I thought detecting in the parks wasn't legal here?". Long-timers turn around, look at him, and say "since when?" And then confusion ensues.

So if a person wants to be careful, by all means, check the laws. But do it yourself, not asking a live person, lest the question be construed as seeking their permission. If the books are silent on the issue, then so be it.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

I do not have to ask if I can fly a kite or play catch so why would I have to ask if I can metal detect? I am not damaging the park and I am not digging up the grass. Personally, I use a probe to recover my targets, so if I am aske if I am digging up the park, I say no.

If the park rules that are posted at the entrance do not prohibit detecting, go for it.

Ray S ECenFL

 

[scubadetector]

You probably will NEVER be hastlled by ANYONE, UNLESS you upset somebody OR a police officer finds you that has nothing to do. I was a cop for 9 years. NOT even they know 1/10th of the laws. As per one of my posts in beach and scuba. An accociation park called the police on me. SIX officers and a Seargent said I was totally legal. ONE decided I wasn't and I demanded a citation. It was dismissed. This happened while I was fishing at night also. A Sheriff officer came up checked all my id and told me I was fishing illegaly. I told him I wasn't and he said I was and had to leave. I left, Went to the nearest 24 hour store and got a copy of the rules. I called the sheriffs office and told the dispatcher I was going back and if the officer had a problem he could come and see the rules.

Some ruin detecting for others, especially in New York. In Utah, I took a frisbie and put a hole in it and a string so I could carry it on my belt. Cut a plug, dug to the target and put the dirt on the frisbie. After I found it I dumped the frisbie in the hole and put the plug back in and you could barely tell I was there. I got away with this on a golf course for over 3 years. Along with hundreds of barber coins and seated liberty and others I found this.

The golf course was an amusement park from 1860 - 1926. It was a super hot spot for coins in the middle of Salt Lake City. I always hunted at night also. LOL no golf balls to attack me!!

 

[froggy38383]

Very good information..

 

[MarkCZ]

n/t

 

[JimGilmore]

Actually there is a lot of information and the wording is at the heart of the problem.
The first thing is that you mentioned digging in a playground.
Now I am assuming your implying a playground with an easily dig able surface such as sand,bard or grass and not an asphalt or concrete covered pay ground that you think is covering some chest of gold.
The big difference between many of the terms used that some see as rules against our sport is intent.
My understanding of our language has me to believe just like our tax laws that what we do is to the best of our knowledge to be true and honest.
I do not act with the though that anything I am doing is to vandalise,deface,or destroy.
I make a conscious decision to clean as I go remover all trash and leave every sight cleaner and therefor better than I found it.
This past month when I detected in Ca. I remover several large spikes and other metal objects I think were used to hole soccer nets in place and lost in the grass. These are formidable targets that could hurt a child stepping on the end IN the grass with out shoes on. I removed far More bobby pins and nails than I have in a while.
Yet coin wise the count was low.
No what You asked was what do I tell somebody I am doing. I stand by my statement that I am looking fr lost items and removing trash. I have seen no new changes in the town I live in , to the laws but I'm sure the AVTHS would alert me to any changes.
NYC has a website that shows their rules and regulations and I do obey most of there laws. There is a prohibition in there rule that I believe is 100% wrong or just made that is frivolous. That probing with100 feet of a tree is prohibited. The size of some trees makes me wonder whom wrote this and why? It makes me think of the rules some cities use to prevent child molesters from living in their borders......Can not live with in x miles of a school....do the math and you make any living quarter in the town illegal.

 

[TerraDigger]

The City Clerk is not a desk clerk in my city. Her position is to know all the city regulations. And there is no material regarding detecting regulations on the city/park/schools websites. And I did ask if digging a three sided plug was legal. But the digging question comes last, not first. After I get the information on detecting legalities. My city's answer to digging. Permissible, as long as the hole is filled back in with no unsightly mess. I do not fear government employees, nor take the stance of having to dodge questions because I fear a negative response. Actually, in my experience, 25+ years, I have found that the more honest & open I am with them, the better my results are. Maybe alot of the the problems are in the way some folks approach this issue. I don't do this in a half-a**ed manner.

And Tom CA....having been born, raised and detecting in CA for 10+ years, I left.......for good. The state is a nightmare of stupid regulations and is run in a fashion that defies common sense. Thats why its bankrupt and will continue to be that way for the forseeable future. It went from the most prosperous state to one of the most fiscally strapped states......in 3 decades..............really sad.

 

[JimGilmore]

True that the first question is are thereany rules against metal detecting....
And Yes refilling a hole goes back to my statement about intent. One whom replaces and restores the surface to as close to it's original look and condition is not defacing or vandaliing.

 

[Elton]

Is viewed a little different than utilizing the ground areas for running over, etc,etc......... It's a matter of disturbing the land mass more than anything.

Hey I detect too....so I'm not preaching.. But we do have to understand where the boundaries are in our Hobby....... So I think we have to be a little more tolerant of how we are viewed by officials and other park users.

 

[TerraDigger]

I dig my holes like I cut a cherry pie....very, very carefully.........and I defy anyone to walk over the ground and see where I have cut a plug. I take pride in that. Alot of us here are that careful. As Elton pointed out.....we are scrutinized........and I will be preachy. Most videos I see on YouT*be, I would like to kick the person(s) in the a**, because of their sloppy, messy digging techniques. And many of them consider themselves "good??" detectorists. Please......be responsible.....so we can all have a future in this hobby.