Cibola is all over the place

[Stoof-tabsallday]

So I took my Cibola out today because I was sad it just sat for a while. Man that thing is all over the place!!! Tabs ringing from at the foil line (below 5 cent which on mine is where nickels go out ironically) all the way past tab. Not cool.
Aluminum ringing in as same as a copper penny.
I don't have these issues with my compadre. ..
It's funny because I love my compadre and it's usually right on the money (pun intended) but my Cibola is all over. Unless I'm digoing everything above a certain spot (which is hard to even pick a spot because of how wonky it is) then I can't thumb to find out what anything is. Battery still had 5 beeps when u left and 4 when I got home.
It is GBing weird and pretty positive for my ground, but I don't remember having this issue.
Grrr. I want to like this machine, but it's irritating. Only 3 of the areas are even marked.
Anyone know why they did away with the actual foil spot and the penny/zinc line?
Maybe I'm too used to my compadre, but I don't know.
Maybe the coil is out of whack which would explain why it's GBing weird.
Yes it's modded but no damage was done inside and it behaved this way before as well, besides the GB thing because it was preset.

I'm reading the tejon/vaquero book but it says nothing about how weird the disc circuit it on this thing.

Sorry just had to vent.

Anyone else notice a difference in their cibola/vaquero circuit Co pared to their other tesoros?

 

[REVIER]

Tabs can actually come in at a pretty wide range sometimes, nickels are weird too and thick aluminum could come in really high but you might have an adjustment problem with one or more of your settings internally.
My Vaq does not work all that different than my Compadre over all...a little on the disc but not as much as you describe.
If a previous owner got inside and attempted to "adjust" something they might have screwed it up.
Sounds like your disc is off a bit, the GB might be screwed up even but just adjusting the sense I would not believe could cause these kind of problems.
Do zinc cents hit at exactly 3:00...they do on both of mine and that is exactly how I like it and my benchmark.
You might want to consider sending it into Tesoro if you haven modified it, paying $50 and shipping to get it working perfectly will save you a whole lot of frustration in the future.
If it is nodded they might not touch it so you might have to try to adjust it back to normal yourself...a dicey proposition but you aren't happy with it now so not much to lose.
I would call them and see, couldn't hurt and all they can say is no.
Those pots are fragile and it doesn't take a lot to get them out of kilter.
Sven might know how to do this or others around here may be able to help.
Good luck.

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

Tabs can actually come in at a pretty wide range sometimes, nickels are weird too and thick aluminum could come in really high but you might have an adjustment problem with one or more of your settings internally.
My Vaq does not work all that different than my Compadre over all...a little on the disc but not as much as you describe.
If a previous owner got inside and attempted to "adjust" something they might have screwed it up.
Sounds like your disc is off a bit, the GB might be screwed up even but just adjusting the sense I would not believe could cause these kind of problems.
Do zinc cents hit at exactly 3:00...they do on both of mine and that is exactly how I like it and my benchmark.
You might want to consider sending it into Tesoro if you haven modified it, paying $50 and shipping to get it working perfectly will save you a whole lot of frustration in the future.
If it is nodded they might not touch it so you might have to try to adjust it back to normal yourself...a dicey proposition but you aren't happy with it now so not much to lose.
I would call them and see, couldn't hurt and all they can say is no.
Those pots are fragile and it doesn't take a lot to get them out of kilter.
Sven might know how to do this or others around here may be able to help.
Good luck.

Thanks for the input!
Besides the Cibola internal GB, there are no other preset trim pots that I saw.
I'll have to do some more bench testing. Maybe a previous owner moved the set spot on the disc knob.

 

[steve1357]

I have a buried nickel in the test garden. Dunno if it moved but depending on which direction I sweep, it varies greatly where it hits on the discrimination setting.

Air tests may not be the end all.

I think to get a confident start, you need to take your Cibola out with your Compadre and try them both on targets you come across.

Keep in mind, the discrimination reading is based on the phase change of the interruption of the field created by the coil. The detector really doesnt know if its aluminum or gold or iron, etc, it only knows the phase change and amplitude. It doesnt know the difference between a piece of can slaw or a ladies gold ring if both are causing the same change of phase.

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

Very true. I understand the limitations of the circuitry and that it's a fact of this hobby to dig trash.
I'll do some work and figure out if I need to recalibrate the disc knob. At the top end, the white dot gets all the way to almost 6 o'clock at the end.
I'll have to choose my benchmark setting. Also I'll see where a zinc falls out. If it's at 3 o'clock like you said yours is. I might leave it. Nickels go out at the line before 5 cent.

 

[pinenut]

.....Maybe a previous owner moved the set spot on the disc knob.

Not sure where Tesoro sets it on the Cibola, but when it's off/all-metal on my Vaqueros, it's set at the "i" in "disc". My main Vaquero dosen't always disc out zincs right at 3:00; often a bit higher, probably depending on how corroded they are.

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

.....Maybe a previous owner moved the set spot on the disc knob.

Not sure where Tesoro sets it on the Cibola, but when it's off/all-metal on my Vaqueros, it's set at the "i" in "disc". My main Vaquero dosen't always disc out zincs right at 3:00; often a bit higher, probably depending on how corroded they are.

I just checked, and mine disc out a 2014 penny about 1/4 below max line as far as in between that line and the one before. Hope that made sense. Not corroded at all.
So maybe it's just how it is. My compare just seem's a lot smaller window for the circuit. Zinc fall out in a way smaller area than on the cibola. Possibly a difference from the true ED180 on the compadre compared to the ED180 (more like 160 or 160) of the cibola HOT circuitry.
It will come in time. That and remembering my bandidos numbers co.pared to the word of all the newer ones.

I just don't remember it being like that and I think they labeled the disc dial on the cibola that way for a reason. It's got a much widerived mid range and Co pressed low and high range so all the stuff in the middle is separated further. I could most definitely be wrong though lol.
That's what it seems like though. The iron area is very small and so is the higher silver/higher clad coin area and the middle is wiDE open.

I'm sure it's fine, just have to try and keep all these straight in my head I guess.

I see why people say that you should get 1, get good, then move on. I'm learning many machines at the same time lol. But it's a blast!!

 

[pinenut]

...I see why people say that you should get 1, get good, then move on. I'm learning many machines at the same time lol. But it's a blast!!

Yup; they're all fun to play with. I started with the Tejon. Still not "good", but comfortable using it. I have much more time on Vaquero.
I'll start playing with the Eldorados soon, though.

 

[amberjack]

if your detector isn't GB properly the disc wont work properly, that's why the compadre is working better than your out of balance cibola.

AJ

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

if your detector isn't GB properly the disc wont work properly, that's why the compadre is working better than your out of balance cibola.

AJ

No it does balance.
Just in a higher area than my other detectors.
It's just different, that's all.

 

[REVIER]

I still think something might be off and not just the disc knob setting.
My Vaq and Compadre are way closer than what you are describing and the Vaq is stock with the factory 3 3/4 GB.
My Compadre does seem a little sharper in the disc but not a huge amount and as I mentioned both seem to disc out a normal zincoln at 3:00...the Compadre is always dead on while the Vaq might have a little play in that area it is just a hair off and almost unnoticeable but I can because of the large amount of hours spent with both.
I played with a newer 8" coil Compadre for a few weeks and did notice a tiny bit of slop in the zinc area on that one too compared to my older 7" coil model but not enough to really matter except to maybe someone like me.

It sounds to me that yours is way more sloppy than it should be and not just "different".

The only way to tell would be to try to get your hands on another Cibola to compare, I guess, if you don't really know what benchmark performance really is it would be hard to tell how far off yours is accurately.

Many reset the disc knob to hit a nickel dead on but nickels have been weird for me with many coming in slightly above and below my nickel mark on both my units so I would never do that.
Try setting that knob to have a good zinc cent come in at exactly the 3:00 setting as you thumb past and then turn the disc knob back down, more accurate than thumbing up till the target discs out.

Then compare other targets like nickels, several different tabs of different types, (not all are the same even if they look similar), and other things and compare them to your Compadre at the very least if you can get a hold of another working Cibola.

I can hear the frustration you have using this thing the way it is in your posts...it should work better than this.
If you ever decide to give up and sell it in this condition thinking it is normal and you do but to a user that has had prior experience using other good working Cibolas there could be some problems.

 

[steve1357]

Very true. I understand the limitations of the circuitry and that it's a fact of this hobby to dig trash.
I'll do some work and figure out if I need to recalibrate the disc knob. At the top end, the white dot gets all the way to almost 6 o'clock at the end.
I'll have to choose my benchmark setting. Also I'll see where a zinc falls out. If it's at 3 o'clock like you said yours is. I might leave it. Nickels go out at the line before 5 cent.

I have a Compadre, Cibola, Vaquero, and Silver uMax.

What can I test for you this evening?

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

Very true. I understand the limitations of the circuitry and that it's a fact of this hobby to dig trash.
I'll do some work and figure out if I need to recalibrate the disc knob. At the top end, the white dot gets all the way to almost 6 o'clock at the end.
I'll have to choose my benchmark setting. Also I'll see where a zinc falls out. If it's at 3 o'clock like you said yours is. I might leave it. Nickels go out at the line before 5 cent.

I have a Compadre, Cibola, Vaquero, and Silver uMax.

What can I test for you this evening?

Just where normal clad falls on your disc knob.

For me a very new penny 2014 it falls out between the max line and the 3:00 line. Quarters don't disc out dimes don't disc out silver doesn't disc out. Nickel (90's) falls out at the line before the nickel line. I might try some other nickels. Copper pennies either disc out right at max or get choppy there but sometimes disc out a little below max depending on conditions.

I've done some reading any many people's Cibola disc out a nickel at the line before. Some call this the foil line .
Now that I've had a couple days to play with it, it's not far off. Plus I can try the 9x8 from the 25th anniversary Vaquero I have arriving Monday.

I have a sneaking suspicion that it's the coil that's out of whack. Allen over at Tesoro said that all things considered, besides a component on the board being bad (unlikely) that GB issues with how positive I have to take it to get it to balance points to the coil being wrong.
It will still cost the 50 to send it in, but I wanna check that it's the coil first before spending the cash to send it only to find it is the machine.
They said the would have to restore it to factory setting plus charge for the trim pot, pinpoint button and labor fees on top of the 50 if I want the detector in.
At that point it wouldn't be cost effective.
But he said in the past, models with GB having that issue is from the coil having to be retuned.
He said my Deleon was like that when I sent it in. The coil was so out of whack that it threw the internal GB off. Once rebuilt, he said they barely had to tune the detector besides the small amount from the stock setting for the stock coil to the Troy coil.

So Once my Vaquero comes in, and hopefully that coil is good lol, I'll swap them and see on both.

 

[amberjack]

compadre has the best disc of any Tesoro I have used.


AJ

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

Well when my Troy went in on my Deleon, they had to actually remove all the guts on the coil and redo it. The process involves hooking it up to an oscilloscope and moving the windings for the proper waveform. Most times they just have to remove the epoxy and adjust the windings. Then when it's set properly, they refill with epoxy to set the windings.
It was explained to me that over time the epoxy keeps setting and eventually gets brittle, gets microscopic cracks and breathes with the temp changes.
Over time this can cause the windings to get out of whack. That's another reason why scuff pads are a must for me.
When I return removed the scuff pad from my Cibola to take out the possibility of dirt and minerals in there throwing it off, I did notice a small area that looks as if the epoxy fill separated from the coil housing.
This alone could show that the coil is damaged. Then add in the possibility of the previous owner(s) then getting it wet and it could make it worse.

This is all speculation but when I saw that it entered the possibility of the coil being the problem.
When the car arrives I can try that one.
If it turns out to be the coil that's the problem, instead of paying the 50 for the coil repair, I might kill 2 birds with one stone and just pick up the elliptical one on the lobo.

Again this is all speculation.

Like you and me, most don't know much about these things AJ. People selling detectors, even people who use them and are in the hobby, just assume if it beeps and can disc things out,its a perfectly running detector. The downside, especially with a Cibola with no GB knob, is there's no way to really know if the coil is out of tune as long as it still detects metal and can disc things out.
This was what happened with my Deleon. Internal GB and not the stock coil. It worked, but erratically and not right. When I went it in they were surprised it even worked at all it was so bad. But to me it still worked.
Now that I got it back and it's tuned and the detectors internals are set to that coil, it's like night and day.
I originally sent it in to just have a once over done on it and to check the switches and pots because of its age.

So the best I an do is try the identical coil from the Vaquero. Even if it's not ot perfect and just changes how it balances, I've narrowed it down to the coil. I Ind of deductive reasoning.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[steve1357]

A zinc penny drops out between the Max line and the one below it.

A nickel drops out just a hair above the line before 5c line.

This is using the stock 9x8 coil.

Seems identical to yours.

Sensitivity didnt affect it any.

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

A zinc penny drops out between the Max line and the one below it.

A nickel drops out just a hair above the line before 5c line.

This is using the stock 9x8 coil.

Seems identical to yours.

Sensitivity didnt affect it any.

Woo hoo!!!
Yes exactly like mine.
Thank you sir!!

 

[steve1357]

You bet.

I do have a nickel buried that is all over the place depending which direction you come at it from.

Same thing on my vdi machines.

 

[amberjack]

Well when my Troy went in on my Deleon, they had to actually remove all the guts on the coil and redo it. The process involves hooking it up to an oscilloscope and moving the windings for the proper waveform. Most times they just have to remove the epoxy and adjust the windings. Then when it's set properly, they refill with epoxy to set the windings.
It was explained to me that over time the epoxy keeps setting and eventually gets brittle, gets microscopic cracks and breathes with the temp changes.
Over time this can cause the windings to get out of whack. That's another reason why scuff pads are a must for me.
When I return removed the scuff pad from my Cibola to take out the possibility of dirt and minerals in there throwing it off, I did notice a small area that looks as if the epoxy fill separated from the coil housing.
This alone could show that the coil is damaged. Then add in the possibility of the previous owner(s) then getting it wet and it could make it worse.

This is all speculation but when I saw that it entered the possibility of the coil being the problem.
When the car arrives I can try that one.
If it turns out to be the coil that's the problem, instead of paying the 50 for the coil repair, I might kill 2 birds with one stone and just pick up the elliptical one on the lobo.

Again this is all speculation.

Like you and me, most don't know much about these things AJ. People selling detectors, even people who use them and are in the hobby, just assume if it beeps and can disc things out,its a perfectly running detector. The downside, especially with a Cibola with no GB knob, is there's no way to really know if the coil is out of tune as long as it still detects metal and can disc things out.
This was what happened with my Deleon. Internal GB and not the stock coil. It worked, but erratically and not right. When I went it in they were surprised it even worked at all it was so bad. But to me it still worked.
Now that I got it back and it's tuned and the detectors internals are set to that coil, it's like night and day.
I originally sent it in to just have a once over done on it and to check the switches and pots because of its age.

So the best I an do is try the identical coil from the Vaquero. Even if it's not ot perfect and just changes how it balances, I've narrowed it down to the coil. I Ind of deductive reasoning.

Hope this makes sense.

your not having much luck with coils, not worth spending money on a coil you can still buy.

something to be said for the coils in solid resin then like the NEL, CORS, MarsMD ones, I like Detech but they have air in them too like a lot of coils, oh well its still cheaper than fishing gear

yeah I am still sore with Tesoro on coils so best we don't even go there I think. safe to say it maybe time to let some of mine leave the flock

good luck with your new V.

AJ

 

[Stoof-tabsallday]

Well when my Troy went in on my Deleon, they had to actually remove all the guts on the coil and redo it. The process involves hooking it up to an oscilloscope and moving the windings for the proper waveform. Most times they just have to remove the epoxy and adjust the windings. Then when it's set properly, they refill with epoxy to set the windings.
It was explained to me that over time the epoxy keeps setting and eventually gets brittle, gets microscopic cracks and breathes with the temp changes.
Over time this can cause the windings to get out of whack. That's another reason why scuff pads are a must for me.
When I return removed the scuff pad from my Cibola to take out the possibility of dirt and minerals in there throwing it off, I did notice a small area that looks as if the epoxy fill separated from the coil housing.
This alone could show that the coil is damaged. Then add in the possibility of the previous owner(s) then getting it wet and it could make it worse.

This is all speculation but when I saw that it entered the possibility of the coil being the problem.
When the car arrives I can try that one.
If it turns out to be the coil that's the problem, instead of paying the 50 for the coil repair, I might kill 2 birds with one stone and just pick up the elliptical one on the lobo.

Again this is all speculation.

Like you and me, most don't know much about these things AJ. People selling detectors, even people who use them and are in the hobby, just assume if it beeps and can disc things out,its a perfectly running detector. The downside, especially with a Cibola with no GB knob, is there's no way to really know if the coil is out of tune as long as it still detects metal and can disc things out.
This was what happened with my Deleon. Internal GB and not the stock coil. It worked, but erratically and not right. When I went it in they were surprised it even worked at all it was so bad. But to me it still worked.
Now that I got it back and it's tuned and the detectors internals are set to that coil, it's like night and day.
I originally sent it in to just have a once over done on it and to check the switches and pots because of its age.

So the best I an do is try the identical coil from the Vaquero. Even if it's not ot perfect and just changes how it balances, I've narrowed it down to the coil. I Ind of deductive reasoning.

Hope this makes sense.

your not having much luck with coils, not worth spending money on a coil you can still buy.

something to be said for the coils in solid resin then like the NEL, CORS, MarsMD ones, I like Detech but they have air in them too like a lot of coils, oh well its still cheaper than fishing gear

yeah I am still sore with Tesoro on coils so best we don't even go there I think. safe to say it maybe time to let some of mine leave the flock

good luck with your new V.

AJ

If you weren't so far away I'd offer to purchase some of those coils.