After the AT Pro Upgrade...

[marcomo]

That's an extreme loss of depth you're talking about, Marc.

Something as new as a Chuck E Cheese token sinking over 11" deep in what you describe as your very bad soil which ground balances in the 90s is pretty hard to fathom unless your soil has been disturbed.

It surprised me that in your initial post you were asking other users if you should even send it in.

If I had happen what you are saying you did, I would have had that unit back to Garrett for repair immediately.

I know for sure that if someone at Garrett told me they would have a tech internally turn up the sensitivity on my machine, I would have gotten the name of that person.

Good luck on getting your unit repaired, keep us posted.

 

[Goldmanjace]

I am sure the person on the phone from Garrett just said what she said so he would send it in so they can look at it first hand.

If he found a token that deep and in his yard, it is quite possible that it was tilled at some time and it being disturbed is very possible. I am sure he know what his detector did before and after he sent it in. I see his point and I can understand if one does an air test, I know air tests do not say much on dept in ground but the air test should yield the same results everytime tested, and gets 14 on a quarter then only 6 with the same settings and everything then something is wrong and thats a fact. From the problems he is talking about sure seem abnormal and something is wrong with it. Send in your detector and when you call them give them the facts and tell them what you want checked, also tell them to call you back before the send it out to you. That way you can see if the things you wanted to be done were done. At this point you can even talk to a tech. Are you sure you got the same detector back that you sent in? Did you write the serial number down?

 

[Marc-Montana]

@Goldmanjace I checked my original service form copy that I sent in. It's still the same detector serial number. You are right that the token was tilted, at about a 45 degre angle, as deep as it was in the ground.

The biggest thing that I noticed is that my air test results were about twice as good as before. Being a former computer technician, I beleive that they may have made some type of software change on the device. It's possible that the technician could have not checked the device for depth after upgrading the software. I look at it as this: I sent it back to them for them to go over the machine and both coils, just to ensure proper operation. I have a lot of money invested into all the new detector gear, and I have been impressed since I bought the unit back in Febuary. I know what good machines Garrett makes, that's why I bought this machine. I don't mind having to send it in, I would rather send it in while it is covered under warranty.

The way I see this thread ending is I think that next Wedensday or Thursday: I will get my detector and coils back, and they will work better than they ever have, or at least as good as they did before. Most of the targets in my areas average 2"-6" deep, but I want my machine to get those deep ones, because all the land in this town has had fill-dirt added over the years to keep the ground level with the curbs. Few of my targets are going to be 10"+, but I want to be able to pick up a portion of those, That's where the really good stuff is here (Southeast Montana).

 

[coin hunter]

Wish I could find the thread I read about a week ago,on another metal detecting forum. From what the AT pro owner posted was he sent his AT Pro back three times with a clip of his air test on a Quarter only 6 inches max, each time they sent him back a new detector.Not sure how he sent a clip of the test and didn't really think I would have to reference this thread. I'll keep looking for the thread if its something that I'm going to have to verify for all you non believers. I'm not sure why someone would make false claims on that forum but I believe it.

 

[Jerry-Wi]

I suspect some of the problem here is lack of experience. That is not meant to be derogatory in any way but much of what is said points that way. You either have it or you do not and the only way to get experience is to go out and hunt with your detector. The At Pro does have some user control over sensitivity. I find that the optimum setting is something less than maximum. I find plenty of deep targets at two or three bars less than max. A simple test for this is set the detector for maximum sensitivity. It should have a tendency to chatter slightly when put on the ground as if you are digging a target. In areas of EMI it will chatter a lot. If your detector already exhibits this behavior then already have as much sens that is usable. "turning up the sensitivity" will only make that worse.

If I may make a suggestion, take the detector and use it hunting for a few weeks and see what you think about it then. Even better take a friend along with a similar detector and compare targets. For example if an Ace 250or 350 is consistently finding things deeper than your machine will hear you might have a problem. You will not get the best out of your machine unless it is ground balanced properly. Do not place too much faith or make judgements based on air tests, you will always be disappointed.

Good luck with your At Pro.

Jerry

 

[Steve Keppel]

I haven't noticed any changes in performance. I am, however testing different battery brands, using the chronometer on my watch, to see who gives the most useful amount of time, and if any exceed 20 hours [ If other people get higher amounts than 20, What are their detector serial numbers?, Just in case the numbers are related.

 

[Marc-Montana]

Good advice Jerry. Thanks for your tips. I've just noticed that even if the depth wasn't a problem, the 3d sound of the pro mode seems to be a little off. Then add the problem with the depth. I'm at least sending it in for them to go over it and make sure everything is working properly. If the detector and coils come back with a clean bill of health, than I will assume that I must have just not used it enough since I sent it in the first time. I would say that I have about 280 hours worth of hunting in, so I am very familiar with how the machine "should" work.

I'm registered locally at my GPAA chapter, and there are a lot of other detectorists there. One guy has an E-Trac, and another a Whites DFX. I'll see if I can coordinate a hunt with these friends after I get the unit back. What seems to have changed in the detector since I sent it in the first time is that it seems that the sweep speed is lowered quite a bit. I could swing before at 2-3 ft per second. I have been having to use a slower sweep speed to pick up targets with Pro mode.

With as much money as I have into it, it's worth the $25 to send it in and get it inspected.

 

[Marc-Montana]

I use energizer max batteries in mine. I average about 16 hours hunting to 1 set of 4 AA batteries. I bought my detector in the first 3 months the AT Pro came out.

 

[Jerry-Wi]

What seems to have changed in the detector since I sent it in the first time is that it seems that the sweep speed is lowered quite a bit. I could swing before at 2-3 ft per second. I have been having to use a slower sweep speed to pick up targets with Pro mode.

I think I read earlier that you also had the 9X12 concentric coil. Just wondering if you have compared the DD and concentric coils regarding the sweep speed?

I have the 9X12 but have not done a back and forth comparison with the DD yet. Too busy having fun with it

Jerry

 

[Marc-Montana]

I would say the DD coil is a faster swing than the larger 9x12 concentric coil, in my experience. Perhaps that could be just because of the additional weight of the larger coil! They're both highly responsive, but I think that with the DD coil you can actually swing the coil faster and get cleaner audio response out the speaker/headphones on deep targets in Pro mode than with the larger concentric coil. What I'm saying is that you do have to swing the 9x12 a little slower than the smaller DD coil to get the cleanest audio response.

 

[Marc-Montana]

[size=large]I just sent an AT Pro back myself. I had the same symptoms as you are describing. Sometimes when I would push the ground balance button it would just start beeping real fast, non stop. At other times the detector would act like it would be working normally but it would get no depth or would not detect any targets at all. One time I dug what sounded like a real deep dime and it was a surface find. Sometimes the display would just go crazy and start flashing random numbers and the depth meter would go crazy too. This was not emi as it happened at any site I went to. It was not battery related, I tried several different sets. I reset the detector many times but it did not help. This was one that Garrett had upgraded also.[/size]

The thing that happened with the ground balance was disturbing. I switched out the coil that day. The only way to get the machine to ground balance that day was to completely remove the batteries, let the machine sit a few seconds, put them back, then power on the mahcine. The batteris weren't low either. That is exaclty why I started inspecting the performance of the machine, and found that it wasn't going nearly as deep as it had before. Good luck to you Bill, I HOPE they must have a fix for this issue.

I know they must have a fix for it, because I remember how the machine worked when it was brand new. I took it up to the GPAA claim in Zortman Montana this year 2011. I ran the machine over a pile of rocks and got a 43 TID solid. Since this was a group event, we weren't allowed to dig nuggets out of that pile, but later in the hi-banker we foud a .4 gram nugget, which ain't too shabby. I have no idea how deep it was, but I told someone to dig there and then ran the detector over that spot later with no signal whatsoever.

I just want it to work that good again!

 

[Marc-Montana]

@Goldmanjace Thank you very much for the tip about calling their support department to speak to the technician. I will be calling them Thursday when the unit is supposed to arrive, and ask them to schedule a callback before servicing the unit. This was the single most helpful tip in this thread. I was worried because I didn't note on the repair form the thing about not being able to ground balance properly(intermittenly). Knowing that I can call and speak to the technician is like finding a 24k diamond-studded gold ring!

 

[Goldmanjace]

I suspect some of the problem here is lack of experience. That is not meant to be derogatory in any way but much of what is said points that way. You either have it or you do not and the only way to get experience is to go out and hunt with your detector. The At Pro does have some user control over sensitivity. I find that the optimum setting is something less than maximum. I find plenty of deep targets at two or three bars less than max. A simple test for this is set the detector for maximum sensitivity. It should have a tendency to chatter slightly when put on the ground as if you are digging a target. In areas of EMI it will chatter a lot. If your detector already exhibits this behavior then already have as much sens that is usable. "turning up the sensitivity" will only make that worse.

If I may make a suggestion, take the detector and use it hunting for a few weeks and see what you think about it then. Even better take a friend along with a similar detector and compare targets. For example if an Ace 250or 350 is consistently finding things deeper than your machine will hear you might have a problem. You will not get the best out of your machine unless it is ground balanced properly. Do not place too much faith or make judgements based on air tests, you will always be disappointed.

Good luck with your At Pro.

Jerry[/quote

you are correct to a certain degree. Regadless, his air test should be the same no matter what. If this is not the case then somthing is different and this has nothing to do with expierence. I can air test my etrac every day and after sending it in keep air testing and the air test results should be the same. We all know that air test say nothing of actual in ground targets but still his air tests should be the same if he does them in the same place and under the exact same conditions. This is a fact.

 

[Jerry-Wi]

Well Marc has decided to send his back to Garrett so it does not really matter. If I gave the impression that air tests were of no value, that was not my intention. I build detectors as a hobby so I do a lot of air testing. I even have a machine that swings targets at very precise distances from the coil. However the Ground balance, discrimination and EMI can alter the results of an air test. I agree, that if all the variables are accounted for and everything is the same, the test should be the same. However people often read too much into the results of an air test.

Jerry

 

[Reddog777]

Something tells me they are turning the SENSitivity back to try to avoid the falsing issues the older machines had???

HH,

I agree. Backing off from the the sensitity should have corrected the falsing and with proper ground balance (depending one's soil condition ) good depth still should be obtain with the older units. Therefore, the upgrade is just a quick-fix and not a real fix. IMHO.

 

[Marc-Montana]

Signals in the ground at 6-7 inches being weak is not good though. I can tell a difference while hunting out in the field. I would get strong clear signals, even on very deep targets before in Pro mode. It just seems like the deeper targets arent coming in as strong with the pro audio, and a buried coin past 7" cannot be detected in a quiet area in the field. These are some of the tests I did. I cannot describe what the difference is, but when you've used a machine a lot, you can tell when it's running differently.

 

[goodmore]

Has there been an official statement by Garrett addressing the issue. Did they or didn't they turn the sensitivity down on returned detectors?

 

[Bill_S]

You made me think of something too Marc. I would have to take the batteries out of the detector or at least pull the pack out so it did not make contact to get it to not act up but it would start again in a few minutes. I did call Garrett and talk to one of their techs but he had no clue as to what the problem may be. I hope I get mine back this week sometime so I can see if it has been fixed.

 

[marcomo]

Several expert early users of the AT Pro (510 serial # if I remember correctly) reported falsing issues when the coil would scrape the ground or in some cases even when swept quickly back and forth.

Tom Dankowski was pretty sure coil shielding was the problem, and he still feels that way. If I remember correctly, early users Keith Southern and Synthnut reported that their coils were replaced when they sent in for repair.

Goodmore has a good point about Garrett addressing these issues publicly. When rumors swirl and folks speculate about Garrett intentionally reducing internal sensitivity, no doubt it would be in Garrett's best interest to come out and say no, we're not doing that.

On another forum I visit periodically, the lead designer/engineer posts at times and on multiple occasions has corrected misinformation. Someone from Garrett with strong technical knowledge on this forum would be both a public relations and a financial benefit to Garrett, I would think.

 

[Marc-Montana]

Mine was earlier than even the 510 serial numbers. It was in the 505 series. I called Garrett today and got Sue on the phone. She was very helpful, and explained to me that the software may have been updated when I sent it in for the upgrade. She said that the team there uses hi-tech oscilloscopes and other expensive tools to calibrate the detectors. She said that they will use those tools to make sure everything is in perfect spec. She said that it is possible that if it did have a software update that it may have needed to be recalibrated, or even checked a little more thoroughly. The unit will be back to me by Monday or Tuesday. Too bad though, it's such a nice day out today where I'm at today!

Falsing was never ever a problem for me. When I would wiggle the detector in the air, the machine would bleep. When the coil was on the ground though, I got very stable operation