still looking 52
Well-known member
I'm going to predict that Duracell Optimum is going to be our next king of the mountain.
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.
aa Battery's Race To 0.8v How Much Interest Is There?
- Thread starter MarkCZ
- Start date
Mark, I like your work here, but, whats the significance of 0.8V volts? Can you share photos to help us understand the test? Are AA batteries the standard battery for machines and are they used in same configuration? i.e. all 8 added in series?
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Thanks for dropping by, but give me some time to adjust to this forum's new format, this is the very first time I've seen it, so, I'm in a foreign land????
Okay, my test is testing single battery in groups of four for an average of them. Each battery has its own 4.7ohm resistor wired into the battery's positive and negative leads for a FIXED constant load.
Each cell is inserted into its holder numbered 1-4, each cell has its own manual stopwatch which is stopped when the cell's reach the target drain voltage of 0.800v (800mv).
The why the .800v? well when I first place the batteries into their circuit to start draining they have an out of package of will say 1.61v (not under any load) well as soon I as put them into the circuit and meter
the voltage under the load is drops to around 1.44v so, I know that for a 1.5v rated battery to actually be DEAD in most devices they have to get down around the 1.0 to 1.1v range. Well, what I found out is that
the no load voltage vs the under load voltage carries the same offset all the way down to DEAD! which will say is close to 0.2 (tenths) of a volt offset. So the target goal of 0.800v leaves the battery with right at 1.02volt off load (DEAD in most devices)
And every battery has the same task, from FULL capacity to 0.8v the better the battery, the more reserve power it has the longer it takes to drain to the target drain voltage point.
All the resistors are brand new and ordered at the same time from the same place and metered checked!
The terminal barrier strips are NEW and matched!
The battery cell holders are NEW and matched!
The wire end connectors are NEW and from the same box!
All the parts after they were assembled were checked (metered) for resistance from each connection point through the entire circuit! (ZERO Resistance Throughout)
The goal was to eliminate as many variables as possible.
I'll try and get some pictures unload in this post, but I've got to figure that out as well!
Here is the setup!
Well that wasn't bad LoL!
Now, this test measures the batteries independent ability to store and discharge its energy as compared to other brands or even the same brands made in different countries.
Like the case with the Energizer MAX (made in USA) at an average drain time of near 10hrs, vs an Energizer MAX (made in Poland) that barely made 5-hrs & 40-min!!
In these test every battery has to carry its own weight with the same test equipment, doing the same job, and many of them hold up really WELL! others NOT so well.
I landed on testing the aa's because they are probably the MOST common used in metal detectors these days.
And these test only include Alkaline's!
I'll try for another picture upload here of the last spreadsheet I had loaded on the old Findmall forum. I hope this helps everybody have a little better idea of what
Monte and me are trying to do.
And for the others that have been following this thread on the old forum, today I FOUND a Ray-O-Vac heavy weight 10 HOUR contender!!!!
So, I'll get my latest results uploaded pretty soon!!!!
One brand of battery I'd really like to find in a 4-pack is the Interstate's, anybody got a source for them, I mean I found a GREAT buy on a bulk 200 cell pack, but still $50.00
is to much money for me to spend just to get four batteries to test!
Also, Monte is mailing me some more batteries to test and they're ON THE WAY!
Stay Tuned, More To Come!
P.S this is my very first post on the forum's new format, so, I'm not sure what to expect??
Last edited:
MarkCZ
Well-known member
"brauem" it looks like you may be a new member here! if so then Welcome To The Forum!
Here are some pictures of what things looked like on my bench when I was just starting the test!
Last edited:
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Low Drain, High Drain, and My Drain!! How this breaks down and how does what I'm doing compare to real world devices?
To a power source (battery) an electrical device even a flashlight is a "Load" and current going through the load of course can be measured, and the 4.7ohm resistors
I'm using in my test is a "Load". But, how MUCH?
How do they compare to other electrical devices that operate on a single aa battery cell??
Lets start with a 5-LED aa single cell flashlight that I just so happen to have thanks to my big brother. So, how much current does this light consume when its on? and when its on it
is a CONSTANT fix load!!! (my resistors are a CONSTANT fix load)
lets try some pictures again, here is the flashlight, its actually a screwdriver light, but the bit driver is NOT motorized!
Its a pretty bright light for a single aa cell battery!
And here is its insides.
So, how much current does this light (load) use when its turned on with a FRESH battery??
That is 166.0 ma.
Now how about a VERY low drain device, like lets say a Quarts aa single cell wall clock!
As you can see from the below picture there isn't a lot to one of these things except for a LOT of plastic.
So, what does the meter hook up look like on the LOAD?
Now metering the current through this little quarts motion motor was a little bit of a trip because it actually PULSES and in such short duration's (One second)
that it didn't give the meter much time for a SOLID stable reading,
meaning each pulse gave a slightly different reading, but this is as high as I observed it, that is 1.44ma.
Now!! this brings us to what the load is with the 4.7ohm resistors in my battery drainers and they compare to the above LOADS.
Drum Roll Please!!!!!
That's 188.3ma!So, my drainers are really a pretty good load choice for these test, I'd say it would match the load of say a aa single cell 5-watt flashlight, in fact I think I could come
up with a much brighter single cell aa flashlight if needed?? My drain test is the same thing as loading a battery into a flashlight and turning it on and leaving it on until
it pretty much goes out!! except I have a target drain voltage of 0.8v under load, and the voltage reading as soon as I remove them is about 1.04volts which in about ANY electronic
device would be considered DEAD!
I'd sure like to get some more input or even suggestions, or questions??
More test to come!!
To a power source (battery) an electrical device even a flashlight is a "Load" and current going through the load of course can be measured, and the 4.7ohm resistors
I'm using in my test is a "Load". But, how MUCH?
How do they compare to other electrical devices that operate on a single aa battery cell??
Lets start with a 5-LED aa single cell flashlight that I just so happen to have thanks to my big brother. So, how much current does this light consume when its on? and when its on it
is a CONSTANT fix load!!! (my resistors are a CONSTANT fix load)
lets try some pictures again, here is the flashlight, its actually a screwdriver light, but the bit driver is NOT motorized!
Its a pretty bright light for a single aa cell battery!
And here is its insides.
So, how much current does this light (load) use when its turned on with a FRESH battery??
That is 166.0 ma.
Now how about a VERY low drain device, like lets say a Quarts aa single cell wall clock!
As you can see from the below picture there isn't a lot to one of these things except for a LOT of plastic.
So, what does the meter hook up look like on the LOAD?
Now metering the current through this little quarts motion motor was a little bit of a trip because it actually PULSES and in such short duration's (One second)
that it didn't give the meter much time for a SOLID stable reading,
meaning each pulse gave a slightly different reading, but this is as high as I observed it, that is 1.44ma.
Now!! this brings us to what the load is with the 4.7ohm resistors in my battery drainers and they compare to the above LOADS.
Drum Roll Please!!!!!
That's 188.3ma!
up with a much brighter single cell aa flashlight if needed?? My drain test is the same thing as loading a battery into a flashlight and turning it on and leaving it on until
it pretty much goes out!! except I have a target drain voltage of 0.8v under load, and the voltage reading as soon as I remove them is about 1.04volts which in about ANY electronic
device would be considered DEAD!
I'd sure like to get some more input or even suggestions, or questions??
More test to come!!
Last edited:
MarkCZ, a very nice explanation, with good display samples to get you message across.. Hopefully readers will understand what's being done, and why it's important to measure the individual battery voltages for 'drain-time' when under a load. It sure is interesting to see how the voltage drop when under stress conveys useful information to help those shopping for quality batteries t use and have on-hand as a 'back-up.'
I know I appreciate the time & effort.
Monte
I know I appreciate the time & effort.
Monte
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Thanks Monte!
And just to let you know I have those Energizer Industrial's draining right now, but its early yet for them!
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Okay, let me see if I can illustrate what the difference is when a battery's voltage is tested without being under a load, and then what the reading is once the same battery is placed under a load.
Now in the next picture I've got the same battery inserted into a spare battery drainer with one 4.7ohm rated resistor in circuit, so the meter reading is displaying the battery's voltage under a load, notice the voltage drop! The best I can do to describe this effect is that the no load has NO diverted voltage, and under a load some voltage is being diverted.
What I've discovered is that this offset voltage difference happens at any point during the discharging process, and this is the reason for my target drain voltage of 0.800v and that is while the battery is under the load. The target drain voltage under the load leaves the battery at or near 1.04v when removed from the load, I felt that any aa 1.5v battery is considered depleted by most every electrical device at 1.1v and below!
So, I named these test a battery's race to 0.8 except the longer its takes the battery to get to 0.8v the better the battery, or at lest the more reserved energy the battery has.
I started these test doing only one battery, but my friend Monte twisted my arm LoL! and convinced me to do the test using 4 batteries and then average the times for a more accurate test results!
Currently I've murdered near 130 aa batteries and the body count is still going up!
Later this evening I'll be posted another screen shot of the updated spreadsheet with some very interesting results you won't want to miss!
Stay Tune!
In this picture I'm holding a Tenergy new aa battery in my hand holding the meter leads to the battery contacts, with the meter's display in view.
Showing a voltage reading of 1.580 volts! (1580mv)
Showing a voltage reading of 1.580 volts! (1580mv)
Now in the next picture I've got the same battery inserted into a spare battery drainer with one 4.7ohm rated resistor in circuit, so the meter reading is displaying the battery's voltage under a load, notice the voltage drop! The best I can do to describe this effect is that the no load has NO diverted voltage, and under a load some voltage is being diverted.
What I've discovered is that this offset voltage difference happens at any point during the discharging process, and this is the reason for my target drain voltage of 0.800v and that is while the battery is under the load. The target drain voltage under the load leaves the battery at or near 1.04v when removed from the load, I felt that any aa 1.5v battery is considered depleted by most every electrical device at 1.1v and below!
So, I named these test a battery's race to 0.8 except the longer its takes the battery to get to 0.8v the better the battery, or at lest the more reserved energy the battery has.
I started these test doing only one battery, but my friend Monte twisted my arm LoL! and convinced me to do the test using 4 batteries and then average the times for a more accurate test results!
Currently I've murdered near 130 aa batteries and the body count is still going up!
Later this evening I'll be posted another screen shot of the updated spreadsheet with some very interesting results you won't want to miss!
Stay Tune!
Last edited:
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Well, I've gotten several new battery results added to the spreadsheet and as promised here is a screenshot of the latest findings. and I'm not at all impressed with the high dollar Bunny Industrial's, I mean they didn't flop, but they didn't impress either!!
One new battery in the list did impress me and that was the ACE Hardware house brand! they tied with the Ray-O-Vac Fusions for the top spot on the chart!!
One thing that was interesting abut the ACE batteries is that where they're made is quoted exactly the same as the Ray-O-Vac's which read,
Made In USA with USA and Global Materials!
I can't prove it, but I'm thinking that the ACE batteries could be (maybe likely) made by the Ray-O-Vac corporation????? In any case they tested VERY well.
Here is the current spreadsheet! (you may have to click the image to enlarge it)
One new battery in the list did impress me and that was the ACE Hardware house brand! they tied with the Ray-O-Vac Fusions for the top spot on the chart!!
One thing that was interesting abut the ACE batteries is that where they're made is quoted exactly the same as the Ray-O-Vac's which read,
Made In USA with USA and Global Materials!
I can't prove it, but I'm thinking that the ACE batteries could be (maybe likely) made by the Ray-O-Vac corporation????? In any case they tested VERY well.
Here is the current spreadsheet! (you may have to click the image to enlarge it)
Last edited:
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Okay, lets take a look at what would be considered a HIGH DRAIN device for a single aa battery to operate.
I've go this little pocket single cell (aa) flashlight compliments of my other older brother LoL!
(its really nice to have to old brothers to help you along in life)
Anyway, this light has a High, Low, and a intermittent Flash, Well, on high its really BRIGHT and has an adjustable beam.
So, I set it up to check the current draw it has on the battery, and its a LOT!
I had to setup the meter to the 10amp port because it Over Loaded on the the 200ma setting (see picture)
The test load I put on the batteries is 188ma and the drain times reflect more of a current draw that a electronic device might have,
hence the 7, 8, 9, and 10-hr run times I'm getting!
Look at the current draw of this flashlight, and its reading is in amps not ma.!
Someone should not have ask me for pictures LoL!
If somebody has some questions about these test or something else about current draw or "Device Load" just ask! If I don't know then maybe
somebody like Dave_J can be ask to weigh in on the subject, I don't go much farther into this stuff than just a basic understanding.
What to expect over the next few days as far as battery test and results.
Monte sent me some more batteries the other day and so I've got those to still test, and I'm expecting a 24 pack of the Interstate's to arrive
tomorrow and so those will be in the upcoming results as well, I'm really looking for how they turn out.
Here what's next on the list,
Panasonic "Platinum Power"
Albertson's "Signature" These have the same made in country as the Ray-O-Vac's, so I expect these to make the A+ grade of 10-hrs!
Sunbeam "Alkaline Ultra" the Sunbeam's I already test fared pretty good, and if these "Ultra's" do any better then they might score really HIGH!
Interstate, I don't have these on hand yet, so they will likely be forth in their death sentence!!
Also, the upcoming battery list is in likely order to be tested.
More To Come, Stay Tuned.
I've go this little pocket single cell (aa) flashlight compliments of my other older brother LoL!
(its really nice to have to old brothers to help you along in life)
Anyway, this light has a High, Low, and a intermittent Flash, Well, on high its really BRIGHT and has an adjustable beam.
So, I set it up to check the current draw it has on the battery, and its a LOT!
I had to setup the meter to the 10amp port because it Over Loaded on the the 200ma setting (see picture)
The test load I put on the batteries is 188ma and the drain times reflect more of a current draw that a electronic device might have,
hence the 7, 8, 9, and 10-hr run times I'm getting!
Look at the current draw of this flashlight, and its reading is in amps not ma.!
Someone should not have ask me for pictures LoL!
Here is what High Drain Looks Like For These Small Batteries!
Yep! that's 1.28amp Even though this is a single LED its still drawing a lot of power for its little size.
Yep! that's 1.28amp Even though this is a single LED its still drawing a lot of power for its little size.
If somebody has some questions about these test or something else about current draw or "Device Load" just ask! If I don't know then maybe
somebody like Dave_J can be ask to weigh in on the subject, I don't go much farther into this stuff than just a basic understanding.
What to expect over the next few days as far as battery test and results.
Monte sent me some more batteries the other day and so I've got those to still test, and I'm expecting a 24 pack of the Interstate's to arrive
tomorrow and so those will be in the upcoming results as well, I'm really looking for how they turn out.
Here what's next on the list,
Panasonic "Platinum Power"
Albertson's "Signature" These have the same made in country as the Ray-O-Vac's, so I expect these to make the A+ grade of 10-hrs!
Sunbeam "Alkaline Ultra" the Sunbeam's I already test fared pretty good, and if these "Ultra's" do any better then they might score really HIGH!
Interstate, I don't have these on hand yet, so they will likely be forth in their death sentence!!
Also, the upcoming battery list is in likely order to be tested.
More To Come, Stay Tuned.
Last edited:
MarkCZ
Well-known member
I've found another surprise 10-hr battery!!! and very SOON I'll be posting another updated spreadsheet so keep a look out for that!
Also, the test are winding down now, I've only got a couple more to test to conclude the test, and I think its safe to say at this point
that the only TOTAL FAILURE battery (two different test) was the Poland Bunnies! and these are supposed to be Energizer MAX batteries,
well they're a RIP OFF!
I should be able to get a screen shot of the updated spreadsheet posted Monday evening!
Stay Tuned!
Also, the test are winding down now, I've only got a couple more to test to conclude the test, and I think its safe to say at this point
that the only TOTAL FAILURE battery (two different test) was the Poland Bunnies! and these are supposed to be Energizer MAX batteries,
well they're a RIP OFF!
I should be able to get a screen shot of the updated spreadsheet posted Monday evening!
Stay Tuned!
'MarkCZ':
I've found another surprise 10-hr battery!!! and very SOON I'll be posting another updated spreadsheet so keep a look out for that!
Also, the test are winding down now, I've only got a couple more to test to conclude the test, and I think its safe to say at this point
that the only TOTAL FAILURE battery (two different test) was the Poland Bunnies! and these are supposed to be Energizer MAX batteries,
well they're a RIP OFF!
I should be able to get a screen shot of the updated spreadsheet posted Monday evening! Stay Tuned!
Monte's Response:
As I have mentioned before, I started doing battery comparisons kind of 'casually' back in the latter '70s, but quite often from the mid-'80s until recently. Most of what I did was just watch for a sale on a decent battery that had been working for me, and if the sale price gave me the needed alkalines affordably, and if they performed well enough and long enough, I was fine with that. But during those years I found some major brand name that was terrible so I quit using them. Then at times I would buy a name-brand that worked well and gave me longer in-the-field performance, but the cost was rather high so I would shop for 'House-Brand' or some off-market or unknown but affordable brand and was surprised at their good performance. Often, better than I got from the more expensive battery maker.
It was good to know where I could go when off on a detecting jaunt and had batteries croak and I had to find some replacements quickly. Some of those were the budget-minded quick-marts, such as Dollar Tree, Family Dollar, Dollar General, etc. There were good and bad reasons to shop at some of these type places. One of the really 'GOOD' things was that some of the batteries they offered just happened to work quite well in the metal detectors I use, and that let me find batteries and get by in a pinch and back to detecting.
The 'BAD' news, however, was that some of the stores also carry a mixture of batteries, some made by one of the big names in the battery business, but what they had made and marketed through some of those outlets was a rather inferior-performing product. Thus, I found the budget-looking battery to turn out to be the better-working battery. The other 'BAD' thing, is that while these establishments have a 'Dollar' reference in their name, and have a lot of great values under their roof, the Alkaline batteries are usually sold in a 2-Pack, and that means it will cost $2.00 to fill a detector powered by 4-AA's, and an 8-AA powered device will set us back $4.00
Therefore, if we use a lot of AA alkaline batteries, because we get out detecting often and use them up, or if we also own and use a lot of flashlights or other devices, then it's good to keep an open eye for both decent-performing Alkaline batteries, and also watch for any 'Average' or 'Better' or especially a 'Best' grade battery to go 'On Sale' so we can inventory an ample supply. Having devices that call for a lot of use will be better served by a battery that provides the best 'Run-Time' .... so better batteries at reasonable prices means more affordable product use-life for us.
You will find a lot of interesting information in the spreadsheet Mark will post later. other than just the Grade rating we used for Fail, Poor, Average, Better, Best and Premium grade battery results. The Run-Times for all the batteries, with 4 of each brand being tested with an identical load placed on them makes the results fair and educational. In addition, look at the Use-By dates for the batteries, and especially look at where they were made. Just remember, there is not only ONE battery maker in the US or in China or in Thailand or any of the other countries that supply product for, or under the names of, big battery manufacturers. Also some quality-performing batteries also originate from outside the USA.
On my end I had been running batteries in one specific make and model detector powered by 4-AA's so I could compare the results I got with what Mark was getting our of 4-AA alkalines of the same brand and source. For the bulk of the testing, I use my Nokta FORS Relic that has a 5" DD coil attached. I ran it in the more powerful Discriminate mode, with the Sensitivity at '95' the Discrimination at '0', the Iron Audio Volume at maximum, the Volume and display Brightness also both at maximum settings, then I had them in my den which has some very terrible EMI and I also had both ferrous and non-ferrous targets swept past the search coil. It was very noisy and talkative continuously with the display brightness 'On' full-time and the segments of the numeric VDI display on the side and in the hand-grip constantly flashing through all the segments. Also, no headphones used so it was blaring out the built-in speaker constantly,. All of this put a full use-load on the batteries..
The Relic is a model that will run until the power level gets too low and then it immediately STOPS ... and it is still 'On' but not sufficient power to work. it displays a battery-shaped image on the side housing display to alert the user that iit is 'Dead' and needs new batteries. I ran the stop watchy from the moment it was turned on until it 'STOPPED' and displayed the battery alert. Right then I stopped the timing.
While this provided me with a loot of Run-Time information, I also did some start-'til-death testing of some of the same batteries in a Teknetics T2 w/5" DD coil, a Makro Racer 2 w/7" Concentric coil, and my modified White's IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric coil. All of these models were also set for full Sensitivity, Zero Discrimination, Full Volume and Full Iron Audio Volume, if that model had it. The results I got from those models differed from each other and from my Relic, which brought something else to light. Something we need to be alert for with regard to our detectors and not simply on the battery power source. I am working on a break-down now of my results so I can do the match and figure out how to correlate it with the results Mark got from his testing.
I'll post my results from AA Battery Detector Testing later when Mark has concluded all his tests and posted the final spreadsheet. And believe me, Mark has been very committed to providing some results that can be very useful to all of us. I know they have been for me, and they help confirm some of what I have found this last few years using certain store-brand and very affordable batteries in my detectors and flashlights and other AA Powered things around home.
A 'Thank You' to Mark for all his Time, Effort and $$$$ he put into this project.
Monte
I've found another surprise 10-hr battery!!! and very SOON I'll be posting another updated spreadsheet so keep a look out for that!
Also, the test are winding down now, I've only got a couple more to test to conclude the test, and I think its safe to say at this point
that the only TOTAL FAILURE battery (two different test) was the Poland Bunnies! and these are supposed to be Energizer MAX batteries,
well they're a RIP OFF!
I should be able to get a screen shot of the updated spreadsheet posted Monday evening! Stay Tuned!
Monte's Response:
As I have mentioned before, I started doing battery comparisons kind of 'casually' back in the latter '70s, but quite often from the mid-'80s until recently. Most of what I did was just watch for a sale on a decent battery that had been working for me, and if the sale price gave me the needed alkalines affordably, and if they performed well enough and long enough, I was fine with that. But during those years I found some major brand name that was terrible so I quit using them. Then at times I would buy a name-brand that worked well and gave me longer in-the-field performance, but the cost was rather high so I would shop for 'House-Brand' or some off-market or unknown but affordable brand and was surprised at their good performance. Often, better than I got from the more expensive battery maker.
It was good to know where I could go when off on a detecting jaunt and had batteries croak and I had to find some replacements quickly. Some of those were the budget-minded quick-marts, such as Dollar Tree, Family Dollar, Dollar General, etc. There were good and bad reasons to shop at some of these type places. One of the really 'GOOD' things was that some of the batteries they offered just happened to work quite well in the metal detectors I use, and that let me find batteries and get by in a pinch and back to detecting.
The 'BAD' news, however, was that some of the stores also carry a mixture of batteries, some made by one of the big names in the battery business, but what they had made and marketed through some of those outlets was a rather inferior-performing product. Thus, I found the budget-looking battery to turn out to be the better-working battery. The other 'BAD' thing, is that while these establishments have a 'Dollar' reference in their name, and have a lot of great values under their roof, the Alkaline batteries are usually sold in a 2-Pack, and that means it will cost $2.00 to fill a detector powered by 4-AA's, and an 8-AA powered device will set us back $4.00
Therefore, if we use a lot of AA alkaline batteries, because we get out detecting often and use them up, or if we also own and use a lot of flashlights or other devices, then it's good to keep an open eye for both decent-performing Alkaline batteries, and also watch for any 'Average' or 'Better' or especially a 'Best' grade battery to go 'On Sale' so we can inventory an ample supply. Having devices that call for a lot of use will be better served by a battery that provides the best 'Run-Time' .... so better batteries at reasonable prices means more affordable product use-life for us.
You will find a lot of interesting information in the spreadsheet Mark will post later. other than just the Grade rating we used for Fail, Poor, Average, Better, Best and Premium grade battery results. The Run-Times for all the batteries, with 4 of each brand being tested with an identical load placed on them makes the results fair and educational. In addition, look at the Use-By dates for the batteries, and especially look at where they were made. Just remember, there is not only ONE battery maker in the US or in China or in Thailand or any of the other countries that supply product for, or under the names of, big battery manufacturers. Also some quality-performing batteries also originate from outside the USA.
On my end I had been running batteries in one specific make and model detector powered by 4-AA's so I could compare the results I got with what Mark was getting our of 4-AA alkalines of the same brand and source. For the bulk of the testing, I use my Nokta FORS Relic that has a 5" DD coil attached. I ran it in the more powerful Discriminate mode, with the Sensitivity at '95' the Discrimination at '0', the Iron Audio Volume at maximum, the Volume and display Brightness also both at maximum settings, then I had them in my den which has some very terrible EMI and I also had both ferrous and non-ferrous targets swept past the search coil. It was very noisy and talkative continuously with the display brightness 'On' full-time and the segments of the numeric VDI display on the side and in the hand-grip constantly flashing through all the segments. Also, no headphones used so it was blaring out the built-in speaker constantly,. All of this put a full use-load on the batteries..
The Relic is a model that will run until the power level gets too low and then it immediately STOPS ... and it is still 'On' but not sufficient power to work. it displays a battery-shaped image on the side housing display to alert the user that iit is 'Dead' and needs new batteries. I ran the stop watchy from the moment it was turned on until it 'STOPPED' and displayed the battery alert. Right then I stopped the timing.
While this provided me with a loot of Run-Time information, I also did some start-'til-death testing of some of the same batteries in a Teknetics T2 w/5" DD coil, a Makro Racer 2 w/7" Concentric coil, and my modified White's IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric coil. All of these models were also set for full Sensitivity, Zero Discrimination, Full Volume and Full Iron Audio Volume, if that model had it. The results I got from those models differed from each other and from my Relic, which brought something else to light. Something we need to be alert for with regard to our detectors and not simply on the battery power source. I am working on a break-down now of my results so I can do the match and figure out how to correlate it with the results Mark got from his testing.
I'll post my results from AA Battery Detector Testing later when Mark has concluded all his tests and posted the final spreadsheet. And believe me, Mark has been very committed to providing some results that can be very useful to all of us. I know they have been for me, and they help confirm some of what I have found this last few years using certain store-brand and very affordable batteries in my detectors and flashlights and other AA Powered things around home.
A 'Thank You' to Mark for all his Time, Effort and $$$$ he put into this project.
Monte
MarkCZ
Well-known member
One thing is for sure! Monte puts a lot of effort into his comments! Thanks for the shout out Monte!!
Let me back up just a bit to somewhat of a question that came up earlier on in this thread.
It was brought up about batteries doing a little something different if their paralleled vs series-ed, and different detectors models and brands could be setup either way.
Well, its possible that everybody following this thread knows this, but encase some don't I'll slip this information in here.
When batteries are "Series-ed" together that's positive to negative the total available reserved current is NEVER more than the total of a single cell!!, but what does happen
is the voltage is multiplied, a single 1.5v cell is (1x1.5) two of them is (2x1.5=3v) three of them is (3x1.5= 4.5v) and on and on, but the total current is still based on the single cell and
doesn't multiply. If you were to take apart a battery from say an 18-volt cordless drill, and the pack is rated @ 2.0amp (2000ma) what you would find on the inside is a bunch of single
cells series-ed together and each cell would be rated 2000ma.
Okay, so how does batteries that are paralleled together work, that's a row of any number of cells that have all the positives connected together and all of the negatives connected together.
In this arrangement the opposite happens, the voltage stays the same and the reserve current capacity multiplies, so the voltage off from a single 1.5v cell would still be 1.5v for fifty of them (X-number)
but the reserve current is multiplied, 1X2000ma, 2x2000ma, 3x2000ma and so on.
Some things to remember! in the above all the math is based on each cell having equal inner workings!, each is based on the cells reserved capacity to do what the total power source is intended to do.
In my test the reserved cell capacity of each should be well established, the A+'s have the most reserved amount of energy available with regards to all that I tested, and that should be in ANY device their used in, or I'll say this, common devices to us!.
But! Its likely that if you and I both had say a Fisher F-70 and we sit out using 4 batteries each from the same pack of 8 and we ran the same settings and we did so until both detectors stopped working, its not likely they would do so at the same time!! Why???
Because there is ALWAYS +/- variables within every electronic component, so as the power travels though these circuits every single variable changes the value of the total load slightly, so that changes our machines total run times.
Now, this isn't a battery issue. Lets say it was your detector that dropped out first, well, if we continued that same test for 20 different brands of batteries in groups of 4 in theory your detector will die off first in all 20 test. Lets say each of our test was a 12 hour test, in that 12 hours any tiny little load difference can make a big show of itself in that long of a time period.
Lets put it like this, if Monte has the other F-70 and he's getting 9.5 hrs out of a set of the Rav-O-Vac fusions, and I'm getting 11 hrs from them, its not anything to do with the batteries!
Now, If he's running the Poland Bunnies and getting 6 hrs and I'm running the Fusions and I'm getting 11 hrs then this is a battery issue!!
I can say with some certainty that NOBODY, WITH ANY DETECTOR is going to get much run time from the Poland Bunnies unless someone does something within the Energizer company to fix the ISSUE!
I'm going to get the screen shot of the completed spreadsheet up some tonight!!
Stay Tuned!
Let me back up just a bit to somewhat of a question that came up earlier on in this thread.
It was brought up about batteries doing a little something different if their paralleled vs series-ed, and different detectors models and brands could be setup either way.
Well, its possible that everybody following this thread knows this, but encase some don't I'll slip this information in here.
When batteries are "Series-ed" together that's positive to negative the total available reserved current is NEVER more than the total of a single cell!!, but what does happen
is the voltage is multiplied, a single 1.5v cell is (1x1.5) two of them is (2x1.5=3v) three of them is (3x1.5= 4.5v) and on and on, but the total current is still based on the single cell and
doesn't multiply. If you were to take apart a battery from say an 18-volt cordless drill, and the pack is rated @ 2.0amp (2000ma) what you would find on the inside is a bunch of single
cells series-ed together and each cell would be rated 2000ma.
Okay, so how does batteries that are paralleled together work, that's a row of any number of cells that have all the positives connected together and all of the negatives connected together.
In this arrangement the opposite happens, the voltage stays the same and the reserve current capacity multiplies, so the voltage off from a single 1.5v cell would still be 1.5v for fifty of them (X-number)
but the reserve current is multiplied, 1X2000ma, 2x2000ma, 3x2000ma and so on.
Some things to remember! in the above all the math is based on each cell having equal inner workings!, each is based on the cells reserved capacity to do what the total power source is intended to do.
In my test the reserved cell capacity of each should be well established, the A+'s have the most reserved amount of energy available with regards to all that I tested, and that should be in ANY device their used in, or I'll say this, common devices to us!.
But! Its likely that if you and I both had say a Fisher F-70 and we sit out using 4 batteries each from the same pack of 8 and we ran the same settings and we did so until both detectors stopped working, its not likely they would do so at the same time!! Why???
Because there is ALWAYS +/- variables within every electronic component, so as the power travels though these circuits every single variable changes the value of the total load slightly, so that changes our machines total run times.
Now, this isn't a battery issue. Lets say it was your detector that dropped out first, well, if we continued that same test for 20 different brands of batteries in groups of 4 in theory your detector will die off first in all 20 test. Lets say each of our test was a 12 hour test, in that 12 hours any tiny little load difference can make a big show of itself in that long of a time period.
Lets put it like this, if Monte has the other F-70 and he's getting 9.5 hrs out of a set of the Rav-O-Vac fusions, and I'm getting 11 hrs from them, its not anything to do with the batteries!
Now, If he's running the Poland Bunnies and getting 6 hrs and I'm running the Fusions and I'm getting 11 hrs then this is a battery issue!!
I can say with some certainty that NOBODY, WITH ANY DETECTOR is going to get much run time from the Poland Bunnies unless someone does something within the Energizer company to fix the ISSUE!
I'm going to get the screen shot of the completed spreadsheet up some tonight!!
Stay Tuned!
Mark, thanks a lot....and Monte for your batteries and input. The results are very informing and somewhat surprising. I never thought there was any battery better then Duracell Originals. And while they are right up there, I am surprised at the Ray-O-Vac and Ace Hardware ones. Good job! Know some hours went into that endeavor. My hats off to you. HH jim tn
MarkCZ
Well-known member
We're going to have to remember that this new forum format has a LIKE button at the lower right of the text body box!
Back to the battery test, there is another little thing that is usable in my spreadsheet and that is all the physical dimensions listed. Here is a case in point.
I've got a mini crane scale and it uses 2-aa batteries, well when I got it and went to put batteries in it it was more than just a tight fit between the spring and
the positive button contact, I had to FORCE them in, the batteries I had on hand at the time were the Amazon Basics, well the other day I looked at my chart for the BEST
shortest battery on the list which was the Duracell (USA) Copper tops! and so I switched the batteries out and the Duracell's did fit better, they were a little tight, but I didn't
have to force them in. Some manufactures can UNDER SIZE their battery compartments to the point where it feels like something is going to break just putting batteries in it.
Back to the battery test, there is another little thing that is usable in my spreadsheet and that is all the physical dimensions listed. Here is a case in point.
I've got a mini crane scale and it uses 2-aa batteries, well when I got it and went to put batteries in it it was more than just a tight fit between the spring and
the positive button contact, I had to FORCE them in, the batteries I had on hand at the time were the Amazon Basics, well the other day I looked at my chart for the BEST
shortest battery on the list which was the Duracell (USA) Copper tops! and so I switched the batteries out and the Duracell's did fit better, they were a little tight, but I didn't
have to force them in. Some manufactures can UNDER SIZE their battery compartments to the point where it feels like something is going to break just putting batteries in it.
Mark,
Most excellent.
Thanks for doing all of that work....I did the same thing for rechargeables some years ago, and yes, It's very time consuming.
Your results on the non-rechargeables pretty much match mine, with one major exception:
Your starting voltage of the Duracell Optimum don't match up with a fresh package of 6 I have sitting on my desk right now.
Every one in the package measures a nominal 1.72 volts, which IMO is starting to ask a bit much of some voltage regulator circuits in larger AA packs.
(Where I've seen similar problems with the higher starting voltage of the Lithium Ultimates.)
The Optimums actually caused my Fisher/Tek pulse pinpointer to act quirky, until I put 'normal' Duracell Coppertops back in....which immediately cured the problem.
(So, I might decide to use them in something like flashlights, but they won't go in any of my 40+ detectors, LOL)
Your Ray-O-Vac results have convinced me to buy a bunch next time I stock up.
Thanks again for all the work,
mike
PS - I would never have thought of testing Albertson's and/or Ace Hardware batteries....let alone expected to see how well they performed....great to know.
Most excellent.
Thanks for doing all of that work....I did the same thing for rechargeables some years ago, and yes, It's very time consuming.
Your results on the non-rechargeables pretty much match mine, with one major exception:
Your starting voltage of the Duracell Optimum don't match up with a fresh package of 6 I have sitting on my desk right now.
Every one in the package measures a nominal 1.72 volts, which IMO is starting to ask a bit much of some voltage regulator circuits in larger AA packs.
(Where I've seen similar problems with the higher starting voltage of the Lithium Ultimates.)
The Optimums actually caused my Fisher/Tek pulse pinpointer to act quirky, until I put 'normal' Duracell Coppertops back in....which immediately cured the problem.
(So, I might decide to use them in something like flashlights, but they won't go in any of my 40+ detectors, LOL)
Your Ray-O-Vac results have convinced me to buy a bunch next time I stock up.
Thanks again for all the work,
mike
PS - I would never have thought of testing Albertson's and/or Ace Hardware batteries....let alone expected to see how well they performed....great to know.
Last edited: