2-Tone Ferrous

[Gaz]

......no probs CT.

I'm coolwith that.

Gaz.

 

[CT Todd]

cheers for sure

 

[doc1964]

I've been running 2-tone ferrous a LOT lately at sites that used to have old houses and are full of iron (local, modern schools and a park that used to be a fairground). I've found some old stuff ('65 and '76 injun, '68 2-cent piece, civil war store card) very close to the iron that other machines have missed over the years - and only 5 or 6 inches down.The other day I was hunting in front of a 1924 school that used to have trolly car barns and before that fairground buildings - needless to say, there was a TON of iron. After getting nulled to death in conductive mode I switched to ferrous and immediately nailed 4 wheats from the teens and twenties that came in loud and clear.
What I've found is that you have to move super slow or you will get a high tone false jumping off of a low iron signal. The slower you go, the less falsing occurs.
I use the "extensive nail reject" pattern to get rid of the biggest iron (only the bottom/right blocked out). I also look at the TID a lot and depend on my conductive number.
Other than that, it's smooth sailing and fun to pick off good stuff while other guys with other machines get blown out by the iron.
I'm going to use it this week at an old lumber camp that I hit last summer with my Fisher and got iron falsed to death. There should be little or no modern trash and anything that comes in solid with a high conductive tone will get dug!

Doc

 

[Barry NY]

Would love to see a head-to-head competition in an undetected farm field with two E-Tracs - one running a FE 2 tone w/open screen and the other using CO multi w/typical discrimination pattern - use a one hour time frame and hunt 2 different defined sections. Compare finds. Then switch sections and hunt for another hour.
See who comes up with more stuff on each side.

Then do this in a typical schoolyard or park setting.

Would make for an interesting discussion.

 

[Goes4ever]

Would love to see a head-to-head competition in an undetected farm field with two E-Tracs - one running a FE 2 tone w/open screen and the other using CO multi w/typical discrimination pattern - use a one hour time frame and hunt 2 different defined sections. Compare finds. Then switch sections and hunt for another hour.
See who comes up with more stuff on each side.

Then do this in a typical schoolyard or park setting.

Would make for an interesting discussion.

while this sounds interesting, not sure what we would find out, there are times when a buddy and I hunt an old farm house and when we arrive, he picks one side, I pick the other, some days I might get several coins and he gets none, then we switch sides, and I still find nothing on his side. So in the situation it was apparent the most activity and lost items was on the side I started on.

What would make an interesting study would be to have a guy hunt an entire front yard of a farm lets say, while he is in coin mode with conductive sounds, and then have another come in and go across the exact area with 2 tone ferrous to see what was missed because of the iron masking it.

 

[LabradorBob]

I agree,this reminds me of the old park.I had been over this one spot,several times in conductive.
This spot was 40'wide and probably 25'the other.
But,it was perfect for ferrous because of all the nails.
In ferrous i picked out the two quarters,two dimes,and three pennies i think it was.
I was surprised.
Ferrous is great if it is really trashy,by trashy,i would say if your in conductive and are getting
a complete null,even when going slow.
This is a good spot to try out ferrous.

LabradorBob

 

[moseng]

I think what we've learned here is that the E-Trac can be adjusted for different conditions. Mostly though, I think we've learned that it is a matter of preference.

I have used ferrous in areas where nulling due to iron is really bad. I found some goodies too. Would I have found them if I were in conductive, probably. Ferrous as described by Gaz and others does seem to make it easier to pull out the good sounds if they are mixed in with tons of iron. I am not so sure though of the theory that "hearing" the iron (open mask) over nulling (discrim mask) makes the E-Trac "recover" faster? I mean nulling IS telling me that it knows it's iron and a tone in between that nuling is something else. Don't know if I'm explaining it right but IMO I don't believe an open screen and ferrous does any better than discrimination and conductive as far as the separation capabilities of the E-Trac go. Just my opinion from testing and in the field so far. Of course I could be wrong and that rare seated coin amongst all that iron is still there... just need to choose the right settings!!

 

[Digger]

Would love to see a head-to-head competition in an undetected farm field with two E-Tracs - one running a FE 2 tone w/open screen and the other using CO multi w/typical discrimination pattern - use a one hour time frame and hunt 2 different defined sections. Compare finds. Then switch sections and hunt for another hour.
See who comes up with more stuff on each side.

Then do this in a typical schoolyard or park setting.

Would make for an interesting discussion.

while this sounds interesting, not sure what we would find out, there are times when a buddy and I hunt an old farm house and when we arrive, he picks one side, I pick the other, some days I might get several coins and he gets none, then we switch sides, and I still find nothing on his side. So in the situation it was apparent the most activity and lost items was on the side I started on.

What would make an interesting study would be to have a guy hunt an entire front yard of a farm lets say, while he is in coin mode with conductive sounds, and then have another come in and go across the exact area with 2 tone ferrous to see what was missed because of the iron masking it.

One guy hunting in ferrous with an open screen compared to another guy hunting in coin mode with conductive tones are two totally different approaches. Different detectors, different sweep speeds, different techniques and different experience levels, to name a few. Not to mention that, no matter how many tones you're using, we seem to agree that ferrous mode does a better job of ID'ing iron at these old farm sites. I think we'd also agree that having an open screen is bound to get more "hits" due to the masking effects of the discrimination of "coin mode". What I find interesting is to hunt an area of a farm using multiple tone ferrous, removing those conductive targets I would typically dig, and marking those I chose to leave behind with a wooden golf tee. Then I hunt the same area again, going the same direction using the same sweep speed, digging all the conductive targets. Those that I marked and those that I might have missed. This way I am able to see if what I left behind the first time was really worth the additional time I spent digging all of them. By making these types of "head to head" comparisons, same detector, same coil, same technique etc., each of us would recognize what works best for us, in the sites we hunt. And that is the beauty of this hobby! Different styles, different treasures and different techniques, all customized to our personal prefererences. JMHO HH Randy

 

[Gaz]

I think what we've learned here is that the E-Trac can be adjusted for different conditions. Mostly though, I think we've learned that it is a matter of preference.

I have used ferrous in areas where nulling due to iron is really bad. I found some goodies too. Would I have found them if I were in conductive, probably. Ferrous as described by Gaz and others does seem to make it easier to pull out the good sounds if they are mixed in with tons of iron. I am not so sure though of the theory that "hearing" the iron (open mask) over nulling (discrim mask) makes the E-Trac "recover" faster? I mean nulling IS telling me that it knows it's iron and a tone in between that nuling is something else. Don't know if I'm explaining it right but IMO I don't believe an open screen and ferrous does any better than discrimination and conductive as far as the separation capabilities of the E-Trac go. Just my opinion from testing and in the field so far. Of course I could be wrong and that rare seated coin amongst all that iron is still there... just need to choose the right settings!!

Mos.....thanks for your comments mate.
As I say, it's just theory but I think it's quite sound. The basic principle is that when a detector is programmed or set up to reject iron, when it hits iron, it needs a certain amount of time to recover, sort itself out and be ready to pick up another target. All detectors do this, some faster than others but they all do it.
Norfolk Wolf's video's on YouTube are a prime example of this. At the end of his detector test video's, he tests the recovery speeds.
Now....the theory is.....by not telling your detector to ignore or null over the iron and to give you a tone instead, it doesn't need that time to sort itself out again. This is why this setup seems to be so great at winkling out small non-ferrous targets inbetween ferrous objects.
It's not the only way to do things but it certainly seems to do the business in the right environment.

Gaz.

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

I tried the Two Tone Ferrous mode for the first time the other day at an old house that burned down approx. 15 yrs. ago - this site was really loaded with iron !

Bottom line ... I like it ! A non ferrous metal target really stands out ! I'm planning on using this mode on a lot of older sites in the future.
Also, what you guy's are saying about this mode having a faster recovery time seems to make sense - less target sorting time for the E-Trac's processor.

Thanks for all your informative posts on this topic !
HH --- Mark

 

[Bilko]

I'm going to give this a go. One thing that conductive multi does is make you aware that you could be on to a piece of silver without having to look at the screen. If I hear a possible silvertone, I am always more careful of not scraping it....should it be silver in the first place

 

[OhioCoinHunter]

Sounds like many of us learned a lot about 2-tone ferrous in this excellent thread. I know I sure did. It's just great to know there is another excellent option for hunting iron-infested sites. By the way, Gaz mentioned Norfolk Wolf's Youtube videos where he tests different detectors. I love watching those videos. They are posted by RegtonDetectors. However I haven't seen a new video in a long time. I'd love to see more dealers post videos like that - where they test different detectors in the same test garden, demonstrate the lag in recovery times and simply share their opinions about the strengths and weaknesses about the various detectors they test.

I'd love to see how different detectors do in an iron-infested test garden where various good targets are placed. That would be something different and new. Then we could see how well the E-trac performs in 2-tone ferrous compared to the competition. It would also be a great way for a dealer to do some advertising. wink-wink

 

[Digger]

Here is part of an interesting article written by John Lynn (aka Norfolk Wolf). Enjoy! (Some will laugh and others should brace themselves).

Ferrous, Nails, Coins, Metal Objects and your coil.

I find it amazing the number of times that I read on different forums around the world about detectorists claiming that they can find coins under nails. I read one recently where he altered the number of filters on his machine and hey presto, it was as if the iron wasn

 

[Goes4ever]

I hunted a farm today that the farmer said was hunted already, we started hunting and I knew right away there would be stuff here because my etrac was in constant null, iron overload! So once again flipped it into 2 tone ferrous, picked up a wheatie, a buffalo, and a small spill with 2 nickels 1941, 1946 and a 1942 silver merc dime. I never would have got them if I had stayed in coin mode. I called my buddy over a few times to check signals, he has an etrac too and nope in coin mode it was just a null out.

 

[Digger]

Good to see you recognized that the level of discrimination you were running was too high, and opened up the screen. I'd suggest the reason you found targets that your buddy couldn't confirm has much less to do with ferrous/conductive mode or the number of tones than it does the level of discrimination you were each using. The Coin Mode of his E-TRAC was set to reject over half the possible targets(ferrous/conductive content) that he swept over. If a detector is set to reject certain ferrous and/or conductive properties, it still detects them. It just doesn't send the user a definitive tone. Instead, it blanks out the threshold until the detector resets. If he would use the same levels of discrimination that you are, (open screen) he would have heard the same targets using how ever many tones he choses. And quite possibly which ever mode (ferrous or conductive) that he preferred. What caused him to miss those targets is because he had the discrimination set to reject many targets that were apparently adjacent to those you found by running an open screen. The target blanking created by their rejection, masked out the good stuff.
Again, good to see you made the adjustment. You've demonstrated again that you don't get target blanking when you use all metal mode. I'd bet if you were running Auto-Sens, it was quite low at this site as well. Again, based on your description of constant nulling over iron. JMHO HH Randy

 

[RetiredVeteranTH]

The Ferrous audio mode (2 or 4 tone) is now my main hunting mode and my favorite mode I've used on the Etrac. When I first used it and understood the basic concept behind it's use, I thought it would only be good in areas like farms with little non-ferrous trash but for me that is only true to a degree. In fact I use it in parks as well. , After some time actually using Ferrous audio I realised that by listening to the audio for the level of ferrous content (high to low) AND glancing at the screen for the conductive # I COULD HAVE THE BEST OF BOTH WORLDS!
1) I don't have to waste what can be a considerable amount of time digging high tone falses in Conductive from deep iron that can really cut down on your productivity and enthusiasm.
2) By voluntarily responding to only the higher tones (above 17 ferrous) and then looking at the screen I can see whether the target looks like it is a copper/silver OR a nickel/aluminum type signal, knowing it IS likely a coin object if it is above 35 Co.
3) Even in many parks I hear lots of ferrous targets not just non-ferrous trash, so it stands to reason that if one can tolerate the high audio trash signals on a constant basis this audio/technique will work in parks as well.

In my whole experience detecting I have never found much in the 20's era parks in my town. I used the Etrac early on in one of these parks with my friend Jan and his F2, in approximately 14 hours in Conductive with the Andy Sabisch pattern , the only old coin I found was a solitary 30's wheat. Later in two really short hunts in Ferrous audio ( 20-45 minutes) I have found nearly 10 wheat pennies as deep as 9 inches and as shallow as 2. The 8"-9" wheat registered as 11-38 in the ground and 11-40 out of the ground: now that's some pretty awesome VID accuracy! My last hunt which was barely 20 minutes before a storm rained me out, I found two wheats and the one at 2"! In this same park about a year ago, an out-of-towner with an Etrac found a Barber Quarter and a Standing Liberty in the same 8" hole with a rusted iron key (the VID was STILL 12-45!) so I'm thinking there are still some good targets here. The video is on youtube...can't find the link just yet.

So I hope to finally get a longer hunt in and check out the finds...there is a pull-tab carpet there that may warrant further investigation: I may use Conductive on that with a smaller coil though..we shall see.

 

[Prep1957]

One of my main points for 4 years that I have told people and have trained new minelab hunters it is all about the nulling it is one of minelabs great flaws,ignore what people are telling you about patterns,programs,ferrous or conductive.It is all about the nulling whether you do it by smaller coil,slower sweep speed,2 tone ferrous,all metal mode etc.2 tone ferrous is still not peak to get rid of the nulling effect.If you can run all metal ferrous or conductive is the best to control the null and find more targets.If you do not believe me clean out an area with 2 tone ferrous then hunt it in all metal conductive or ferrous multitone.The CTX 3030 does a lot better job of controlling the null and will work the Iron better than the Etrac,Safari,Explorer I personally do not think it is worth the money myself and get to borrow a friends when he goes out of town and only found one or too coins in areas that I thought was cleaned out with Safari or Etrac I expected much more.What it boils down to is we are hunting these trash laden,junky spots,because we do not have a better spot to go too or because it is close enough to hunt without going to far from home.This is a good thread that shows it is the operator and what he can do with his machine, given not Ideal hunting conditions.

 

[robertj298]

I do run in Ferrous tones with an open screen at many of the old farmsites I hunt. I call it my all metal mode, with ferrous tones and both ferrous and conductive TID. But I run multiple tone mode instead of the two tone mode you guys are talking about. Seems to me, if I were running two tone mode, I'd spend much of my time looking at the screen. With multiple tone mode, I am able to better ID the iron with the low Ferrous tones and sort the conductive targets "by ear", to a certain degree. Maybe I'm missing something. But what is the advantage of using only two tones instead of the multiple tones? HH Randy

I think listening to all those tones using little discrimination would drive you nuts. 2 tone ferrous is best used where most of the trash is iron. I listen for the higher tones and then just check my meter. If you have a lot of non ferrous trash it isn't quite as effective.

 

[Idprospector]

Hey John, I appreciate your enthusiasm but dont like the name calling, Clowns for one and saying a fellow detectorist is a waste of space for another. Lets just assume no one else is as smart as you and stop calling the people on this forum names or being rude about folks not sharing your opinions. The folks here are my friends and hopefully yours as well. CODY