12x10 SEF Coil Field Tests & Trials. Is She A Keeper?

[Critterhunter]

Well, I don't have the coil in the mail yet and obviously there's going to be a lot of field time before I can see the potential of this coil in both depth and unmasking ability. I have high hopes, though. Just figured I'd put the thread you knew was coming in place so I can post future field hunts with this puppy like I did the 15x12. By the way, might as well post the 15x12 thread's link for future reference. Much of the info in that thread won't be re-hashed here (stop clapping!), so I'd read that thread if you are curious about these SEF coils even if you don't plan to buy the 15x12. Loved that coil. Miss it already, and plan to get another down the road for my beach and open field hunting. The coverage is awesome and it's depth on the beach is unreal, but I'm hoping the 12x10 might even surpass it in depth in the sand as well as beat my 10" Tornado on land (which the 15x12 wouldn't do in my medium to high mineral sites, only at the beach would it's depth really shine beyond the stock coil). Regardless, won't re-hash that stuff as well since it's hammered to death in the 15x12 thread and I'm sure I'll touch on it again down the road in this one.

While I've read the 15x12/12x10 threads in the past on Findmall and across the web, once I made my decision to go 15x12 I didn't do as thorough of a search reading on the 12x10. Sure, I knew it's potential but didn't get into the painful details of each and every thread I came acrossed. I'm the kind of person who dives deep into the details once I decide on something, so the last few days has found me searching and printing out any and all 12x10 (or 10x12) references on this site as well as the web. A lot of the SEF coil info came from the Explorer forum. Just seems to be more of those guys buying these coils than the Sovereign crowd, but I guess when you own an Explorer you need all the help you can get.

Anyway, just wanted to say that after reading about a 3" high stack of print outs (with about another half inch to finish up today) that it's been a fun read. If any of you guys want motivation to buy a 12x10 then I'd highly suggest you do a 12x10, 10x12 ANY WORDS search in the Explorer forum through ALL DATES. Some really inspiring stories of dead sites coming back to life and such. Had I known my soil would not allow the 15x12 to show greater depths than stock I would have went right to the 12x10 for it's potential to see less minerals and thus perhaps go deeper than stock.

Let the trials begin! So get yourself a six pack and settle down in a comfortable chair for yet more mindless and endless chatter to wyle away your life with...

 

[Crispy Critter]

I just started a pot of coffee

 

[kered]

A pity my Wednesday starts before yours, looks like I'll have to wait till Thursday for first impressions

 

[Critterhunter]

Speaking of coffee, I need some bad this morning. Hoping the coil gets here today but if not then I'm sure Thursday it will arrive.

This is a repost from the Explorer forum I did. It's kind of a summary of my 15x12 findings and the reasons why people should make their choice carefully between the 15x12 and 12x10 when it comes to providing max depth on land...

I'm a GT user but I figured you guys might find this of interest. The 15x12 did not go as deep as the stock 10" Tornado coil in my medium to high mineral land sites. It did show greater depths (2 or 3") in the sand, though, well into the mid teens or so on a coin. The thing I can't figure out is why it got deeper in my mineralized beaches than the stock coil but didn't on land. Either way, I figure the 15x12 is just too big to see through the fog on land for me to provide greater depths. Don't get me wrong, it's depth was still decent on coins in the 8 or 9" range but I've dug coins 2 or 3" deeper with the stock coil on land.

Otherwise I loved every other aspect of the 15x12. Better pinpointing using the base of the "V" at the tip or tail of the coil. Using the outer front or back portion of this coil I feel it separates better width wise than coils as small as 8 or 9" on other machines, and I felt it was better than the stock coil in that respect too. The DD detection field of this coil feels compressed in the left/right perspective to give excellent separation and pinpointing. The very center is more like a concentric and puts out a signal roughly the size of a medium soup cap, though it's separation is still excellent there as well. I just prefer to use the tip or tail to investigate targets and feel it gives even better separation that way. The stability of this coil is unreal in high minerals or iron. It runs smoother at higher sensitivity settings than the stock coil and seems to provide better audio as well. Still, as I found with my Explorers and now my GT running at max stable sensitivity in my soil doesn't provide best depth. Often something much lower is where I've found I get the best depth and target ID. My normal routine is to bury a silver dime at fringe depth and then calibrate sensitivity over it to provide best response. Often higher than that (though stable) can degrade or even null out a coin just like too low can.

Beyond all that, the coil also seems to unmask coins on edge or in trash better than conventional DD or concentric designs. In every respect I feel it out performs the stock coil, and that's saying a lot because the stock 10" Tornado is one of the best coils I've used on any machine. I give the 15x12 a 9 out of 10 and it would have been a perfect 10 had it shown me greater depths than the stock coil on land. It's better depth on my mineralized beaches and it's awesome coverage in wide open areas or at the beach makes it a winner as well in my book.

My only caution to people considering a coil for max depth on land is to go by the amount of mineral content you have. If it's medium to high then I would expect the 15x12 to not show greater depths than the stock coil even if it's running stable at higher sensitivity settings. I've just traded the 15x12 for a 12x10 and I would highly suggest that you put some deep thought into which to buy based on the kind of minerals you have in your soil. Down the road I plan to pick up another 15x12 just for my beach hunting or when covering wide open areas such as open fields. It's a great coil.

Also, an interesting theory I have about size to depth ratio when it comes to rough ground. We all know the fog in headlights theory so I won't re-hash that, but onto my point...As I've said these SEF coils seem to "ride" on less ground than a conventional DD coil of roughly the same size. For that reason even if you feel that a 12" coil is past the point of no return in terms of getting better depth in your soil, you might still want to consider the 12x10. I have a feeling that the compressed left/right signal of these SEF coils have less "bleed off into space" of your typical DD. For that reason it may very well in fact be that the 12x10 is seeing less ground than a 12" or even 10" standard DD coil. If things follow suit then I expect the 12x10 to feel like a 8 or 9" coil to me much like the 15x12 did in terms of it's stability and left/right separation. For that reason maybe you've tried a Sunray 12" coil and found it to not show greater depths in your rough soil, but I'd still consider the 12x10 in that it might be seeing less ground "fog" than coils in this size range (10 to 12" round coils).

If not for anything else even if this coil doesn't show me greater depths then stock I'm sure I'll still be happy with it. The SEF's ability to hit coins on edge or masked in certain ways over conventional DD and concentric designs is something to behold. It's stability at higher sensitivity settings, improved separation, and ability to run smooth as silk in iron or rough ground is also amazing. Just think about which of these coils will probably offer you the best depth. If your minerals are high then I'd lean towards the 12x10. If they are low or you do a lot of beach or wide open field hunts then the coverage of the 15x12 is simply outstanding.

I'll be conducting depth, separation, and other tests on the 12x10 versus the 10" Tornado as well as how it compares to the 15x12 at the same sites. One thing I want to see is just how high I can raise sensitivity on it at a specific site compared to my 10" coil. While I don't run at max sensitivity, it is useful to note it's performance in that respect for those of you who have soil that permits you to get best depth at the fringe of stability. These field trials will be posted in the Sovereign forum over the next few weeks are further down the road as well.

One other minor note about the 15x12- It's sensitivity to tiny little things like earring backings is very good. Also, it's weight was never an issue for me since I got rid of the coil cover (3.6oz) and sprayed the bottom of the coil with spray on liner. With that done it was either the same weight or I think lighter than the stock coil with it's cover still on. You can find a chart in the Sovereign forum I put together with the weights of various coils with and without coil covers and some FBS coils are listed as well. The 12x10 will be riding with no coil cover and spray on liner as well for me.

 

[synthnut]

Pot o' Coffee nothin !!!......I just got back from Costco where I bought 4 large cans of coffee ..... Pot o' Coffee ? ....Who you kiddin Critter ? ......

 

[Critterhunter]

Very funny. When you going to call me about the Accucel setup so I can walk you through it? Any time is good for me.

KellyCo's website doesn't easily show you the 12x10 for the Sovereign unless you go to a very specific spot. When I was on the phone a while back with them I mentioned this and was told that is a problem with several items for various detectors on their site. If you were to go to the Sovereign GT page and then look at the coils under that I don't think the 12x10 is listed, only the 15x12 and others. Yet if you go to this spot I've posted a link to below you'll see the 12x10 listed. Scroll down the page until you see the Sovereign version and then click on that to get more info...

http://www.kellycodetectors.com/excelerator/EXcelleratorMain.htm

 

[Critterhunter]

Also, here are a few links on their site to field tests of this coil. These aren't exactly easy to find either. There are a few other reviews of this coil on there and also on Joann Detector's website in the UK (very good articles on the 12x10 and 15x12), but I'll leave finding those up to you. This first one looks like a Sovereign user based on the picture of his stock coil compared to the 12x10...

http://www.kellycodetectors.com/excelerator/10x12_excelerator_report.htm

Here's several short stories. Some you have to click on to read further. There are others on their site but I don't feel like posting links to all of them. I swear they need to stop hiding related info to products all over their site...


http://www.kellycodetectors.com/Finds/excel/ts-excelerator.htm

 

[synthnut]

http://www.kellycodetectors.com/excelerator/EXcelleratorMain.htm


THIS was the link I was looking for the other day ....It shows a picture of the SEF coils going deeper than the Round Excelorator coils that someone was mantioning .......I bookmarked it now ....I didno't realize that it was the same page that had the 12 x 10 SEF coil for the Sovereign listed ......THanks, Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Man, just lost a message I was almost done writing! I don't know why Microsoft would ever put key combinations in such a possible manner as to some how delete all the work you just done. They should at least give a pop up Yes or No question to whatever code command my mistake in typing caused the text to vanish. Tried paste but it's not there anymore. :veryangry:

Anyway, let's try this again...

I would take the picture Kellyco has on their site with a grain of salt in terms of bigger coils always going deeper. The 18x12 is beyond the point of no return in terms of getting coin sized targets at more depths. In fact, something that big will tend to lose sensitivity to smaller targets and so get less depth on a coin. Those bigger coils are good for cache hunting or for anything say about the size of a silver dollar or bigger, in which case they should provide more depth than a smaller coil. In the case of the 15x12 as I've said it was obviously too big to show greater depths than the stock 10" coil in my medium to high mineral land sites.

In the "official" field test of the 12x10 and 15x12 both were found to get deeper on coins than the stock 10" Minelab coil. However, the 15x12 was a half inch deeper on something roughly silver dollar size than the 12x10 (think it was a bell of some type). On the other hand, the 12x10 got a half inch deeper than the 15x12 on something about the size of a half dime or a bit smaller. In terms of normal sized (dime, penny, quarter) targets both coils matched each other, but as said in any kind of minerals the 15x12 will lag behind in terms of achieving that depth.

As a general rule of thumb a double D coil starts losing coin sized target sensitivity when it gets any bigger than say 12 or 14". Concentrics, on the other hand, probably piddle out in terms of sensitivity to coin sized targets when they approach roughly 11 or 12" in size. Part of this is just do to the nature of concentric designs. They don't retain good small target sensitivity as they go bigger. The rest of this reasoning behind this can probably be attributed to a concentric seeing more in the way of ground matrix than DD coils. With a large concentric ground balancing is harder to achieve than a DD and also the target is more prone to being washed away in the extra ground matrix concentrics are taking in. With any kind of minerals present a concentric is much more prone to costing it's self depth as compared to a DD of similar size.

 

[Critterhunter]

If you haven't already done it, get the coffee brewing or snort whatever you have to in order to make it through my oncoming messages on the 12x10. I just got the 12x10 in the mail today. And so it begins...

Initial impressions of the coil when holding it in my hand is that, just like the 15x12, the 12x10 is not nearly as big or as heavy as I had pictured in my mind. In fact, without having the 10" Tornado around to compare it to right off the bat the 12x10 looked smaller to me in some respects. That's probably a trick of the eye due to the dimensions of this coil.

I've got some pictures to show in terms of it compared to the stock 10" coil. First and foremost let me apologize in advance for the nasty foam I had them sitting on to take the pictures. That happens to be a work table I use when hot wiring out foam parts for planes. As you can see, I often test the heat of my hot wiring equipment on this piece of junk foam to insure it isn't too hot for the perspective plane part I'm about to cut out. Also, the garage floor is due for a sweeping, so please no wise cracks about the Q-Tips sitting on the floor in the picture.

When I had them sitting together the 12x10 didn't look as small as my initial impression gave me. It was a trick of the eye because it measures to true 12x10 proportions. These pictures as follows are in the following sequence...

The first is of course of the 12x10 by it's self. The second is of it and the 10" Tornado side by side to give an overall view of them. The third one is of both coils side by side again but this time with the coil mounting holes lined up to show where both coils balance.

As you can see, the 12x10 is pretty much even with the 10" coil in terms of how far they both extend out from the shaft at the tip. However, the extra length of the 12x10 is placed at the tail of the coil with the way the shaft mounts. That's important because not only does this keep the balance better, but it also keeps the the extra length of the coil out of the way of the tip where it might otherwise get in your way when working around objects with normal sweep techniques. No need to change your normal method of swinging, nor having to change the length of the shaft to get things to feel right again. I believe the 15x12 was also set up in this same manner, so I give them high points for not just sticking the shaft mount dead center. Extra length out towards the tip would wear on your arm more as well.

The next picture (#4) is of the stock coil on top of the 12x10 to show size perspective. Notice that both coils are the same width dead center, yet the 12x10 retains this distance in width over a wider length from tip to tail of the coil. I believe that might provide additional uniform depth across the entire length of the coil, but I feel with these SEF coils that the depth is judge by the larger dimension (12"), where as the width is more related to separation. In fact, as I've said a thousand times before, based on my use of the 15x12 I feel the width of the detection field on these SEF coils is compressed, or at least has less "bleed off into space" or maybe just a more well defined (tighter tolerances?) DD detection field. In addition, while this doesn't cost you coverage or depth compared to a conventional DD (I believe it's just as deep and probably deeper than a coil of similar size, and it's still uniformly as deep across the entire length of the coil like any other DD), it does I believe enhance both the pinpointing and separation of these fantastic coils.

While on the subject, while I think length equals depth in this design and width equals thickness of the detection field (even better than that dimension), I'd say most remarks I've seen from people on the web even equate the unique morphed coil dynamics (part concentric, but mostly Double D) to even greater depths than a conventional DD coil design in terms of size. In other words, (wow, that was one long mouth full) many people believe the depth is in a sense greater than your typical round 12" coil, while it's separation and stability is better than coils smaller than it's other 10" dimension (perhaps that of an 8 or 9" coil in terms of these respects). There are other unique traits to these SEF coils. Whether one or the other equates to it's awesome smooth as silk stability, better separation, great pinpointing, enhanced audio dynamics, ability to hit coins on edge or in trash better, higher sensitivity levels while maintaining supreme stability, is all up for grabs as to the where and why. I just know they work, and you can give the credit to anything from better construction (tighter tolerances), the unique field dynamics these coils put out, or any of these bonuses could be hung on probably a number of other points in order to give credit where it's due.

In a nutshell, one could also argue that the slightly bigger coverage of these coils enhances your chances for hitting on targets that you might otherwise just miss with a round coil of similar size. One could also argue that the coil holds it's depth across a much larger portion of the coil length due to it's shape. Whatever, you get where I'm going with this. Onto to picture number 5...

#5 shows the coils on top of each other again, but this time with the coil mount holes more or less lined up. This picture better illustrates what I was talking about in terms of the balance issue. Again, cheers to them for putting this kind of thought into it. Even if this coil is slightly heavier than whatever you are using now, you can see that balance can mean more about arm fatigue than actual weight. At this time I don't feel holding this coil in my hand that it is any heavier than my stock 10" coil. However, posting a more precise weight with and without coil cover will have to weight until I get my digital scale back from a friend, who by the way has been selfishly using it to weigh all the gold rings he's found with his Excalibur. You'd think he could at least throw me one of those rings for the 3 month rental fee by my way of thinking in terms of hoarding my digital scale. At the very least he could sell off one of those rings and buy his own scale. Of course I'm joking here, he's more than welcome to have used it this long, but I do need it back now.

Enough of that, onto picture #6...This one is just the 12x10 over the stock coil this time. I didn't line up the coil mount holes but rather just tried to center both coils evenly to show size perspective.

That's it for now. I've got to perform surgery on the SEF to night to fix the short in the coil connector that the previous owner warned me about. Shouldn't take more than twenty minutes to solder things up and heat shrink some tubing over it for that nice factory finish look again.

Expect some weights of this coil and cover, along with an updated weight chart for all the Sovereign coils and such. As an added bonus the previous owner already had sprayed truck bed liner onto the bottom of the coil to save weight, so I get to go commando (coverless) with this coil right off the bat for added weight savings. By the way, just a thought...If you were to hunt a nudist beach would that mean that you aren't supposed to use any coil covers? Really bad joke, sorry about that.

Can't wait to try this puppy out tomorrow. That is, so long as the problem turns out to be a simple short in the cable. Did I mention these SEF coils just look plain out mean and nasty and that alone should scare off the competition?

 

[Critterhunter]

Oops, forgot to post the link to the old 15x12 thread for easy future reference...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1166419

Also, here's some pictures of the 15x12 over the stock 10" Tornado, as well as the WOT over the 15x12. This kind of visual information is useful in making judgements on which coil might be for you. That along with the coil weight chart I posted a while ago, which will be updated and posted here for people to use in making determinations as to just how heavy a coil will be for them.

I really need to update this chart with the Platypus and several other coils for the Sovereign. I'd also like to find somebody who can give a review of the 8x6 (think that was the size) SEF coil for the Sovereign that was only available for a short time over in Europe or something. I'll have to dig back into some old threads and see if I can locate the guy who was claiming he purchased the last one available. Apparently they didn't make these coils for too long and then decided they were not really needed in the Sovereign line up of aftermarket coils. Probably due to the S-5 as well as the large assortment of 8" (and 7 & 1/4") coils available from Minelab and several third parties. In fact, I believe one of these coils made by Detech (?) was an 8" concentric. Then you've got the 8" Coinsearch, S-8, new and old Minelab 8" ones, and I think there was even an 8" DD by Excelerator for a while? Wow, that's probably more different 8" coils for one machine than any other on the market maybe.

 

[Critterhunter]

A few other threads of interest that are related to this topic...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1153267

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1120643,1130955#msg-1130955

Funny, look at picture #6 of the 12x10 laying over the 10" coil and then scroll down to the next message and look at the 15x12 and the 10" coil on top of each other. The 12x10 doesn't really look smaller than the 15x12 in relation. The 12x10 and 15x12 seem about the same size in perspective to the 10" coil by glance.

 

[Critterhunter]

A prior mistake...I said where the coil mounts on these SEF coils isn't dead center. It's obvious from the pictures that it looks like they are. The difference is that the 10" Tornado has it's coil mount more towards the back of the coil. That's why both coils match up in relation to the distance between the coil mount and the tip of the coil. The outcome is still the same, though- better balance by not having extra length of coil out towards the tip. That's why some 10" Tornado owners will reverse the coil on the shaft- it puts less coil hanging off the nose of the shaft and thus balances things a little more. I've heard more Explorer users do this though for obvious reasons. They don't balance nearly as well as a Sovereign and need all the help they can get.

 

[Critterhunter]

A few other issues to clarify...

I've touched on this before but want to emphasize it a little more. I believe these coils see less ground signal in relation to standard DD designs of similar size. That alone can result in greater depth in bad ground where as you've found with previous conventional DD coils that a certain size was too big to show more depth in more mineralized ground. For example, if you've found that you get better depth with an 8" coil than you do with the 10" Tornado, the 12x10 might still show you increased depth because it feels like these coils see less ground than even the stock 10" coil. That's how the 15x12 felt, anyway. Another example would be that if you've found the S-12 provided less depth in your coil than the stock 10" coil, it's worth taking a chance to see if the 12x10 makes it possible to see deeper being less immersed in the ground matrix by it's unique design.

It's also important to note that the tighter width of the DD magnetic field doesn't mean it gets less coverage or doesn't go as deep (or deeper) than typical DD designs. It's just that I feel there is less "slop" or bleed off into space in the right/left perspective of the field these coils puts out. I don't really feel there is any drawback to the tighter field these coils generate. Coverage wouldn't be altered because it's still a straight line from tip to tail and thus it's still going to hit on any target that you pass the middle of the coil over. The enhanced separation and pinpointing of these coils is an added benefit to all this as well. I also believe the more stability and less falsing these coils provide probably is due in some way to this cleaned up signal with less matrix at the edges of that signal being sucked into the coil. Not to mention this probably helps clean up the ID of targets at depth because they aren't being washed in as much ground matrix that the machine has to separate the target from.

We can add into this mix the concentric part of this coil's design that it's said to have. Most say (including me) that the concentric feel to it is a signal that seems to be generated dead center in the coil and is roughly the size of a medium soup can, or at least on the 15x12 it felt that way for me. For that reason this coil gives you extra room for error not to miss a target that you didn't fully sweep over. This middle portion makes the coil feel extremely hot near there. You would think this might lesson it's separation or pinpoint ability but I don't find that to be true. Regardless, I like to use the outer front or tail end of the coil to investigate masked targets or pinpoint anyway. In those portions of the coil it feels more or less of a double D in it's field traits. Best of both worlds to me. You can further use your imagination and probably give credit to the unique/mixed/mysterious field that this hybrid coil produces for it seeming to unmask coins in trash or on edge better than typical concentric or DD designs.

Now I've just got to see if I can find a short in the connector. I took it apart today and the re-paired solder points where the wires hook up to the plug pins seem fine. There might be another short elsewhere in the cable or one of the pins might have a problem inside the plug. It might even be just a dirty pin, so I'll have to clean those up with some contact cleaner. After that I'll put an ohm meter on each pin where it connects to the GT and the check the solder pins at the back of the pins where they hitch up to the wires. If one of the pins is bad it'll show me an infinite resistance there. I'd also like to confirm that the right color wires have indeed been soldered to the right pins, but I don't have a color chart for these SEF coils and can't seem to find any info on here or on the web. I would have thought that several Excal guys would have posted this info for SEF conversions of their Excals, since you'd know that by converting one. One last thing I would like to find who be the measurements across various wires going into the coil. If I had that I could confirm that there wasn't an internal problem with the coil.

 

[Critterhunter]

A partial repost from the SEF repair thread that I thought would be better suited here...

Fixed the SEF I think (see that thread) and took it in the back yard to test it. When I was swinging it around a few minutes for the first time it was obvious that this coil is much lighter than the 15x12, not that that coil was too bad with the coil cover off. The 15x12 was lighter than the stock 10" coil with cover still on, in fact by I think .6 oz. Regardless, with no cover on this 12x10 it felt even lighter, and even much lighter than the stock 10" coil. I won't know for sure until I get my digital scale back and weigh it with and without coil cover, then add that to the coil weight chart I posted for people. I can say that my light weight GT feels even lighter to me than my Whites I've owned in the past. I'm probably about 4 pounds 2 ounces or so now by doing the math in my head.

Anyway, this coil like the 15x12 just looks and feels mean! And even with this coil my very brief initial impression is that I feel like I'm sweeping something with much better coverage than the stock 10" coil around, just like I did with the 15x12. I'm excited to explore it's potential in both depth, stability, and separation compared to my 10" Tornado stock coil. Off I go...

 

[synthnut]

Critter,
Good Luck in your search .....I hope this coil gives you the answers you've been searching for .... Keep us posted .....The coffee is brewing !!!...... Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

OK, with the coil now fixed (see other thread) I was off last night for a quick hunt to see how it was working. I get to a small grass lot where I've dug large cents, barbers, and a few months back that standing liberty quarter I talked about on here. This particular spot I've gridded several times with other machines, including my Explorers, from several directions. That's why I was happy the GT and 15x12 coil got the standing liberty so easy out of there running in Auto sensitivity. 7 1/2" deep or so and perfect signal. I suspect the bad RF noise, hot rocks, iron, and other hazards in the area was too much for my other machines, because even my Explorers never got that good of a coin signal out of there at coins at that depth, and I *know* I must have passed over that quarter many times with the 3 Explorers I've owned, not to mention other machines.

Anyway, when I get there I rush out to beat the darkness and at least get a half hour of hunting in while light allowed. That's when I realized something. I wanted to take this coil somewhere with no bad RF and other factors so I could see how far I could max out sensitivity. Mainly to make sure this fixed coil didn't have any other issues, as a real high sensitivity would tend to show a problem more. Oh well, not enough light to go somewhere else. I turn the machine on and decide to make the best of testing the repair job on this coil out. No time to even stick my silver dime in the ground to calibrate best sensitivity for best depth. So I just see how high it would go before getting unstable. Roughly 1 or 2PM was fine, but anything higher was picking up too much noise, nulling off the ground minerals, hot rocks, and iron and such. No time to get picky with that either, so I just threw it into Auto. Testing this coil for problems would have to wait for Sunday.

Everything seems fine and stable with it. I start sweeping around and go over a few pull tab signals in the more trashy section of this place, where as most of it is pretty devoid of targets that I've dug out over the years. I'm sweeping over iron and tabs in this one particular trashy area that I haven't dug everything out of yet and I notice a few things right away-

First and foremost, the audio sounds different! How can that be? While the 15x12 seems to give about the same audio as the stock 10" coil, it does have a slightly more basey (base?) sound to it. The 15x12 has improved the audio a bit for me over the stock coil, yet even though it is improved it still sounds about the same for the most part. Just a little more smooth, drawn out, and with good "base" to it if you know what I mean. The 12x10 though has really somehow changed the audio in a more drastic way. It sounds like somebody cranked up the trebble on a radio or something when going over targets. Everything sounds a little sharper and higher pitched. Never would have thought something that drastic could happen just by changing coils. Even took off my headphones to make sure I had them on the right way, because sometimes on backwards they don't sit right and sound a little different.

Then I realized why the audio sounds more "crisp", slightly higher pitched, or like I said the trebble has been turned up. As I swept over a few tabs in a patch of iron I could see that the detection field of this coil is even tighter than the 15x12, much more so than the 10" coil. I dare say it's even "sharper" than the S-5 the way it feels! What I mean is that as you go over targets the detection field from tip to tail (the double D portion of the field) feels razor sharp, and I do mean RAZOR sharp! Further, at first I thought I wasn't sure if I liked this different audio and kind of "jumpy" response of the coil. What's going on here? With further play (but not digging targets yet) I started to like it more. What it's doing is it reacts to targets so much more quicker. I know it isn't true but it feels like the processing speed of the machine has been turned up, or like somebody cranked up a self adjusting threshold. Sure, it's still a nice long response like we like on a Sovereign, but you WILL notice it's much sharper, crisper, "faster" in a way. It reacts quicker as you go over a target, comes back to threshold mode faster, and responds to the next target next to it somehow faster.

I'm sure it's more of a thing to do with the seemingly VERY sharp field this coil is putting out. Almost like you could wave your hand under it and get a nasty razor cut. That's how it felt! It's seeing less in the left/right perspective, even more so than the 15x12 in it's improvement over the 10" coil, and as a result the reaction to targets is much faster, sharper, crisper, how ever you want to say it (words escape me). That's why the audio seems different I guess, but it's just wierd that the audio can sound that much different just by putting another coil on. I won't say it's better (yet) in audio terms, just different. I can at least say that my initial thoughts of not liking the way things sound quickly wore off as I saw the reasons behind it with the more distinct/crisp/sharp response. This is going to take some getting used to. Almost like all the tones have been risen a bit in pitch. Now silver sounds much more like my old QXT Pro, as I stuck a silver dime on the ground to see what gives with that tone. Think I won't have to consider turning up the audio pitch pot inside the GT as I've contemplated. It's that much different than the stock coil or 15x12!

So off I go looking for a quick keeper. Get a iffy deep wheat or indian signal. Dug down 5 or 6" and got a piece of junk metal about the size of your pinky. Pinpoint was off. Stuck the dime back on the ground to test that. It pinpoints a little different than the 15x12. The hot spot at the tip of the coil is a little more into the coil, like about a quarter inch in from the base of the "V" that I normaly use. Not harder, just different, but I did notice that the tail of the coil pinpoints at the same very edge of the base of the V like the 15x12. Must be a tad hotter at the tail for some reason. Either that or something in the ground was throwing me off. More testing later.

Onto my next target. Another bad penny signal. Dig down. Something large and deep. Hmmmm.....my judging of target size is thrown off. I test it over a can. Found out the reason why. The thinner/tighter field of this coil makes bigger targets look smaller. You don't have as much slop off to the sides to make things sound as big as they once did. Not harder, just different once again. It's very detailed in how it outlines targets. This is a good sign for those wanting to go to a larger coil in heavy minerals. The tighter field should help absorb less ground matrix, in theory anyway.

Now it's almost dark. Start heading for the car. One target dug and one gave up on, so I figured I have to dig something before leaving. Get a good coin signal. Change positions on it at 90 degrees and it's giving me that sick worbly screw cap sound. Go back to the good way and it's good again. Think about it for a minute, sweeping....Sounds too good the good way. You know how it is, even the good direction screw caps often just aren't quite perfect, and of course they are bad the other way. This one was a perfect 10, where as a screw cap might be a 9.5 to 9.9 or so in it's best direction.

Dig a hole twice as big around as I normaly do as I need practice with this PP being a little different than the 15x12. Flip the plug out. Put ProPointer into the hole. Nothing, until I get near the edge of the plug. Reach down in there and feel something standing on end about 5 or 6" deep. Pull it out. Silver ring. Big stone. Looks old! It was standing on end, and I missed it with other coils and other machines. THIRD target dug on it's maiden hunt! Believe it or not, as the truth is often bolder than a lie. I could say I dug several other junk targets to make things sound more real, but it's the truth! See other thread for a pic and more details.

 

[synthnut]

Critter,
The tone your are describing , and the way the tone reacts to targets , sounds to me what I would describe as an E Trac tone as compared to a Sovereign tone .......Not as smooth and sexy as the Sovereign tone, but it's in your face and surely get's your attention ......Jim

 

[crazyman]

That's interesting that the tones would be so drastically different between the 10X12 and the stock 10 inch and even more so between it and 12X15 coil being the same make. I know that the tones on my S-8 are not as sharp as the stock 10 inch but not by much. I wonder if others that use the 10X12 have seen the same differences at least between it and the stock 10 inch also. I hope you do some more testing in some of your bad ground and also on that beach that was giving you so much trouble when using the 10 inch. Your test results might help me in deciding if adding the 10X12 would be beneficial in my ground. Thanks!

 

[Crispy Critter]

Critter,
The tone your are describing , and the way the tone reacts to targets , sounds to me what I would describe as an E Trac tone as compared to a Sovereign tone .......Not as smooth and sexy as the Sovereign tone, but it's in your face and surely get's your attention ......Jim

Jim, I had to laugh when I read your reply because when I was reading Critters description of the tone change, the first thing I thought about was the pro coil on my old E-Trac.

I think I might need one of those 10x12s for my GT.