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X-Terra Rocks!

But first I must pencil out the '50 and '30. HH
Now for those who think that I am bad mouthing the machine, or comparing the machine-you have misunderstood. I exposed the fact that there will be no after-market coils. It was confirmed. If this is negative 'crap' then so be it. I have no foreign bias on minelab. As a potential customer I considered the '70 for the frequency range of operation and naturally wanted to know if after-market coil makers were positioning themselves to support the product. That left me to question just what VFLEX is? Is it a valued, defined name for technology, or the appearance of one?
I did a trade name search and minelab does have the name registered: I thought VFLEX were a line of shoes, modems or a post-partum exercise. You see, VFLEX is not a new term, and as described in the trade-name document, can apply to the coil and control/display. In fact, it can be loosely attributed to just about anything minelab chooses. In the context of their adverts, it appears to be a function of both, while applying digital and mixed signal operation, coil frequency operation, coil configuration and Digital Signal Processing. It is proprietary and is only compatible with itself. While I cannot challenge these items as 'new' technology (new application), I do find their presentation and the whole VFLEX thing somewhat misleading. *Why is a noise canceling feature required if DSP is running in the background? My conclusion is the VFLEX's DSP only works between the chip sets and is not a direct function of the needed additional noise filtering. Poor shielding at the head? What is so earth-shattering about that? The M6 is in a metal box!
My explorer is said to transmit 28 frequencies. That is true and that is false. A little snake oil to impress the peeps. 28 harmonics are found, but two pulses are sent from the head. What is the difference? None and allot. Spread spectrum is a better description than F BS. But it was an impressive advert. Snake oil sells.
Vflex is the 'Holy Grail' snake oil that sells this product; is as medieval in understanding as bloodletting. Remember Steve Martin on SNL? Is VFLEX a feature superior in application that will make this line stand heads above present technology? No!!! IMHO. Remember, Vflex is more than changing coils- it's the Digital/mixedmode-DSP thing(x30). And just what is mixed mode, that should make me chuddy for it?
Being that it is a proprietary feature and a bad choice in my opinion, the competition can easily provide multi-single frequency use machines, if that is where the market is being driven. Now if you buy a machine that touts fancy verbiage and misleads in technical superstitious beneficial beliefs, then IMHO you were mislead. I should have mentioned an LRL instead of the M6. HH
Now as a multi-freq-use machine, I find it very interesting, but my 'snake oil' alarm is telling me that I should know better. How can I honestly support misleading advertising for a foundational feature- no matter how well the machine performs? I do not believe this feature is anything more than a feature, and contibutes nothing advanced to actual metal detecting through it's technology. The LRL's are said to perform also. Is there a difference or does it work if I believe in it?
I am slamming the advertising, not the machine. There is a difference between engineers, marketeers and accountaneers. China has them and they will sell you what ever flavor of sucker you want. They are the emerging new technology and they will lie through their teeth to sell you your 'Holy Grail'(see Aquanaut Pro), and as a nation still believe in pre-medieval snake oils. No one can play on their field and win. No one. More notes on another forum to supplement soon. Thank you for participating.
No offence to anyone except the marketeers who disperse snake oil to the consumers. The FDA says how many PPM's of snake we can have in our oil, too bad the tradename people do not have the same tolerances for advertising: how you use the name that is registered; you would be tarred and feathered and run out of town. The chinese would just eat you alive. Maybe they will if you continue these practices. HH

Future Proof *
Jim: a U.S. Consumer Advocate- Don't Tread on Me

GO BEAVERS!
 
Look Cannonball,
you say you have no axe to grind but it sure sounds like you have a hate-on for Minelab.
Minelab simply introduced a new line of single frequency detectors that are different from the run of the mill SFD's.
Every company that sells anything tries to make their product look better than the competition. Are you calling them flat out liars? No. Then stuff it.
Don't like, you don't have to buy it. Keep your M6.
I have an XT30 and will put it up against your M6 any day.
I have not tried the M6, but I am sure it is a good machine. Better than the XTerra (any series) is hard to say unless two equally versed guys take them out to the same field and detect the same area without digging anything and make some sort of map of the targets they would dig. Compare maps and dig it all and see who has the best turn out.
Minelab is the leader in new technology for detecting and are improving on what is out there and introducing NEW systems, not just re-hashing old ideas.
 
The Exterra 70 is a good machine. The ID Excell is a good machine and the M-6 may be somewhat comparable to them. You don't hear much about the M-6. If it's as good as you think we should be hearing more about it. I don't think many will sell their X-70s to get a M-6.
 
Thank you, but you need to read the post I submitted on Nov. 26.
The new 'system' as you put it is not necessary on a single use machine as the DSP featured works from the coil data link to the head. Can you explain why additional filtering is required if DSP is one of the features of VFLEX, and what benefit this DSP is over conventional single frequency machines with multiple coils?
The world is not flat, the sun and planets do not revolve around the earth and bloodletting has been abolished as a cure-all. If you think I own a M6, you have been reading into the posts as eagerly as you believe in VFLEX as an advanced system for a single frequency use machine as the XTERRA 30. Please see my post in the Metal Detecting Forum for a new Induction-Absorption Multi Frequency/Coil Metal Detector. My cause as Digger put it, is to inquire as a consumer and separate the facts from the fluff. If this is an unreasonable action of a consumer then I suggest you look into getting an LRL, But as is prudent, Buyer Beware.

Do a trade name search on VFLEX and see if the trade name document points to anything more than generalities of what it is. Through advertising I am to believe that this technology is superior, and provides me with an advantage through the industrial leadership of a manufacturer. I can see the advantage of a multi frequency machine, but is (VFLEX) it essential in making the XTERRA 30 superior? Again I ask, why the promotion of DSP if the control head requires additional filtering? It requires it if noise is introduced into the electronics at the head. One does nothing for the other IMO, DSP resists noise induced on the cable As they have illustrated and is required because- well, ask them! Did they make a monster? A shieled cable does just fine unless they have some facts on improved performance in a comparison study. Believing it works better is not good enough for me. So how about some facts. I am still a potential customer. Show me the science, not the snake oil. I have no bias on the XTERRA series and none on the M6. In fact they may perform the same in a shoot-out and may not. I am always interested in "Big Fat Claims".
 
It looks like you're not able to put this thread to bed. Hope your wounds ain't too bad and that you you recover soon.:rofl:
It looks like you've stirred up a bit of a hornet's next.
Get well soon.:stretcher::rofl:
Mick Evans.
 
Your interest in "Big Fat Claims" may be your problem. Your interest in the hobby don't seem near as great as love for conflict. Perhaps War gaming would be a better hobby for you.
 
or a young pup, as the case may be. Regardless, I'm more of an old dog than a young pup. But I like to think that this old dog can still hunt! You've tossed around some acronyms that lead me to believe you are a person who can talk the talk. But years of hands-on application has taught me to walk the walk. I was in the telecommunication industry when we were still utilizing magneto telephones, cord boards and open wire signaling. I've climbed poles to splice open wire circuits on ten party lines. I evolved through common battery, electro-mechanical switching, pulse code modulation, high frequency carrier and more recently, designed and built fiber optic networks on digitized switching platforms. I understand the importance of digital signal processing and recognize the benefits it provides.

It is apparent to me that you are more interested in debating than detecting. But, since it is cold and rainy here today, I will make one more effort to explain what VFLEX does for single frequency detector technology.

First off, VFLEX technology is proprietory information. It belongs to Minelab. Just as you can't read schematic drawings on how to build the NASA Space Shuttle, you won't find blue prints on how to build an X-Terra. :nerd: As someone on the outside looking in, just a guy who enjoys detecting, I would recommend that you don't try to make VFLEX any more than what Minelab advertises it to be. The X-Terra detectors, utilizing VFLEX technology, are simply single frequency detectors, made better by the advancements realized by "today's" technology. Maybe the utilization of Digital Signal Processing in the X-Terra was not necessarily be the objective of VFLEX. But more of a side benefit of what VFLEX truly accomplished. VFLEX uses digital and mixed-signal components to enhance "yesterdays" single frequency technology. Minelab has replaced most of the analog circuitry of a single frequency detector with digital components. The small amount of analog components that remain have been designed and calibrated to obtain maximum standards. The objective in designing and calibrating new analog components is simply an effort to best match the performance of the digital components. Standards such as sensitivity, accuracy and stability. As an example, I rescaled my Minelab Sovereign meter from the 550 scale to the 180 scale. I did this by simply replacing a couple resistors and a varisitor within the meter. The components I installed had a lower +/- tolerance than the stock components I replaced. Therefore, in addition to implementing a smaller range of target ID numbers, the newer components provided more accurate meter readings on the targets I located. The new components were still analog. But they were designed and calibrated to provide a higher level of performance. To those of us that use and enjoy the X-Terra, refined components mean more dependable performance in areas that may have created difficulties with previous generation detectors. Difficulties with ground mineralization, electromagnetic interference, temperature variations and other environmental conditions.

VFLEX isn't rocket science. It is simply a matter of Minelab taking advantage of the technology (and components) that currently exist. VFLEX also requires higher standards for analog components used throughout the peripherals. Coils need to be accurately constructed and calibrated. Each coil has a secondary microcontroller which responds to the primary microcontroller in the control box. Since Minelab has chosen to use very precise components, the coil can now communicate with the control box over a data link established via the coil cable. Each time a detecor is turned on, the primary and secondary microcontrollers communicate through this data link. Information about the coil is sent to the control box so the detector can set the optimum operating parameters. Instead of dealing with capacitive reactance, inductive reactance, resistance, voltage drops and RFI, this exchange of information is via digital signaling, which is faster, cleaner and less succeptable to outside interference than analog signal processing. In the case of the X-Terra, that didn't have to be done to make the coil work. But it was done in an effort to insure the coil's optimim performance. AND, is done in the blink of an eye. In the case of the X-50 and X-70, the benefits of VFLEX also allows coils of different frequencies to operate on the same control housing. Remember, the coil and control box are in constant communication. We have two coil frequencies available on the X-50 and three on the X-70. Not just different sized coils. But completely unique, single frequency coils. Building a single frequency detector, with the capability of operating on 3 different frequencies, is something that no other detector manufacturer have been able to accomplish.

You started this thread comparing the X-Terra 70 to the M6. And, I stated then why I disagree, based on my actually owning and using both detectors. Now, you've changed your line of questioning to be the reason for having VFLEX in the X-Terra 30. Think about what I said. VFLEX isn't all about DSP. It is the utilization of state of the are technological components. I have no way of knowing, (and I am not going to tear my detectors apart to find out). But personally, I believe that the components used in the X-terra 30 are the same as used in the X-50 and X-70. The difference is simply in the software programming. (another benefit of DSP) That is why, when I plug my 3 kHz coil into the X50, the LCD simply tells me that there is a coil incompatibility. Likewise when I plug the 18.75 into the X-30. (don't shake your head....you know you would have tried it too!) I believe Minelab offers all three models in an effort to provide a high quality detector to people with different budgets and expectations. Maybe that is part of marketing? Who cares? Nearly every manufacturer today offers multiple product models, each offering different levels of features. For example, some folks want a powerful V-8 engine in their car and others want the economical 4-cylinder. Different budgets and different expectations. But, with cars as with signaling in metal detectors, the end results are similar in that they both provide a way to get something from point A to point B. So, do you choose the digital route or analog? I chose the one that gets my information trasported in the shortest amount of time, and with the least amount of errors. I don't want to know how they designed the bumper sensors that activate the airbags. I just want them to work. I don't know how that little box can tell a quarter from a shotgun shell casing. But I know it will. Just like my car, it does what I want it to do. That is why I chose the X-Terra. HH Randy
 
[quote John LA]Your interest in "Big Fat Claims" may be your problem. Your interest in the hobby don't seem near as great as love for conflict. Perhaps War gaming would be a better hobby for you.[/quote]

Well if you are suggesting that a consumer or potential customer should just buy on "faith", then you would have worked well with P.T. Barnum in a dog and pony circus, with suckers lining up to buy without question the sensation of "the greatest show on earth". If asking open and honest questions is conflicting then I must guess that you are in sales.

Do you make or represent/sell LRL's? For if you do, then the suckers and only the suckers will buy on good faith and fantastic big fat claims. These people also have a great interest in this hobby. Which is more repugnant, to sell the snake oil or expose it for what it is? Conflict? Salesmen are artful dodgers. That is conflict.

I am still looking for the 28 separate frequencies that my Explorer is said to transmit. Square waves are harmonic rich, and the harmonics can center on a frequency, but these are HARMONIC frequencies. The machine is said to have "Full Band Spectrum Technology". *It should use the full spectrum of the harmonic band for this to be a true statement. From the first harmonic to the last is an infinite range of harmonics, and that is more than 28 in number. Snake oil sells.
Respectfully, Jim
 
n/t
 
n/t
 
Your post triggered my curiosity, so I visited some of the other detector manufacturers web sites and found the following claims:

From White's web site; " Building The World's Best Metal Detectors In Sweet Home, Oregon U.S.A. "

From Garrett's web site; " The highest performing metal detectors on the market "

From Fisher's web site; " the most advanced instruments of today "

( The web sites of Tesoro detectors and Troy detectors are mostly absent of such claims. )

I pay no attention to the manufacturers claims. I do read the thoughts and opinions of experienced hobbyist on these forums, and Monte's posts in particular. I would suggest reading or searching through previous posts on this forum and put more credence in people who have hands-on experience.
 
Best post i ever read very good information regarding digital and analog technology my only problem is that I don't own a X-Terra my detector is a White's MXT e series
 
n/t
 
You got $40 from cashing in your beer bottles! Good job, and when you are done cleaning the garage, cut the grass and there is another $5 in it for you.
Oh wait, that's probably too much for you for one day. Better sit down, you might burn a calorie.
Yes, electronics is majic! I wonder how they get that small guy inside my T.V.?
 
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