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Jackpine Savage
Active member
Jeff,
"A high GND number does not indicate that a smaller coil will perform better"
maybe, that should read ...does not "always" indicate a smaller coil will perform better.
Doesn't the MXT adjust for front end overload caused by high iron mineralization to some extent? What DJ referred to as a feedback circuit?
Just what is this cascade effect? I have not hunted in heavy iron mineralization but do have some understanding of the difference between high vs low frequency detectors which affects the "spread" of the phase reading on high conductive targets between the two types.
Thanks tom
"A high GND number does not indicate that a smaller coil will perform better"
maybe, that should read ...does not "always" indicate a smaller coil will perform better.
Doesn't the MXT adjust for front end overload caused by high iron mineralization to some extent? What DJ referred to as a feedback circuit?
Just what is this cascade effect? I have not hunted in heavy iron mineralization but do have some understanding of the difference between high vs low frequency detectors which affects the "spread" of the phase reading on high conductive targets between the two types.
Thanks tom
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Anonymous
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Jackpine Savage
Active member
for a post that I can understand. Well said and answers a lot of questions.
Just one more if you don't mind. On high condutcive targets (ie silver coins) Mr. Gifford suggests using a slightly negative GB for increased sensitivity. The Tesoro forums do not seem to be populated by many coin hunters and since I have never used a Tesoro with manual GB in the disc mode, I have never been able to personally confirm his statement. However, I have seen posts on other Mfgr forums that backup this up. My question, In your opinion, would the MXT perhaps function better in average ground for coin hunters if you could slew the GB slightly?
Thanks in advance
Tom
Just one more if you don't mind. On high condutcive targets (ie silver coins) Mr. Gifford suggests using a slightly negative GB for increased sensitivity. The Tesoro forums do not seem to be populated by many coin hunters and since I have never used a Tesoro with manual GB in the disc mode, I have never been able to personally confirm his statement. However, I have seen posts on other Mfgr forums that backup this up. My question, In your opinion, would the MXT perhaps function better in average ground for coin hunters if you could slew the GB slightly?
Thanks in advance
Tom
You have to keep in mind that not all makes and models have a GB control that is tied in with the Discriminate mode.
Yes, with some/many Tesoro's, you might get a little better performance with a slightly negative GB setting in the All Metal mode, AS LONG AS IT IS SUFFICIENT TO DEAL WITH THE GROUND IN THE DISC. MODE.
On other models, such as the White's Classic's, for example, the All Metal and Discriminate mode are tied to the internal GB pot, but you have to have a slightly positive GB setting in All Metal to NOT have problems in the Disc. mode, especially in a more mineralized environment.
A lot has to do with how Disc. mode is designed to be 'offset' or 'track' with reference to the All Metal mode's GB setting.
Some models with an autotracking circuitry only 'track' in one mode, just as some models have manual GB for one mode, but are preset for the other.
Then, too, some model designs have peculiar quirks, such as Tesoro's Conquistador (the first one). These are internally preset models (GB) but you can toggle into All Metal and then vary the Ground Balance setting with the Discriminate control!
You just can't make or accept a blanket statement such as "Tesoro's work better with a slightly negative GB" as there are too many variables.
Just a few thoughts.
Monte
Yes, with some/many Tesoro's, you might get a little better performance with a slightly negative GB setting in the All Metal mode, AS LONG AS IT IS SUFFICIENT TO DEAL WITH THE GROUND IN THE DISC. MODE.
On other models, such as the White's Classic's, for example, the All Metal and Discriminate mode are tied to the internal GB pot, but you have to have a slightly positive GB setting in All Metal to NOT have problems in the Disc. mode, especially in a more mineralized environment.
A lot has to do with how Disc. mode is designed to be 'offset' or 'track' with reference to the All Metal mode's GB setting.
Some models with an autotracking circuitry only 'track' in one mode, just as some models have manual GB for one mode, but are preset for the other.
Then, too, some model designs have peculiar quirks, such as Tesoro's Conquistador (the first one). These are internally preset models (GB) but you can toggle into All Metal and then vary the Ground Balance setting with the Discriminate control!
You just can't make or accept a blanket statement such as "Tesoro's work better with a slightly negative GB" as there are too many variables.
Just a few thoughts.
Monte
Jackpine Savage
Active member
Monte.
It was not my intent to make a "blanket statement" about the GB setting. I was only using that as reference to lead up to my question on the MXT.
Here in my ground, most factory presets work well. The Classics are an exception, although adequately deep I do not like their iron handling with a positive GB setting. That is not the only one, the CZ's are another example where a negative setting actually works well in iron. This is contrary to what others report that have "mild" ground. I thought it was just me until my hunting buddy noted the same thing.
I'm not trying to put any machines down. Ya gotta use what works in your area. Deeper silver dimes "7"+" are weak signals on the MXT in my ground, if you can hear them at all. I have read some gold hunters posts where they would have preferred a manual GB option on the MXT (although for a different reason than what I am getting at. My thought is, would it also help in certain ground conditions (like mine) on the weak high conductive target signals.
It was just a thought for consideration that I wanted to get Jeff's opinion on. Heck the more manual control the better, Right?
HH Tom
It was not my intent to make a "blanket statement" about the GB setting. I was only using that as reference to lead up to my question on the MXT.
Here in my ground, most factory presets work well. The Classics are an exception, although adequately deep I do not like their iron handling with a positive GB setting. That is not the only one, the CZ's are another example where a negative setting actually works well in iron. This is contrary to what others report that have "mild" ground. I thought it was just me until my hunting buddy noted the same thing.
I'm not trying to put any machines down. Ya gotta use what works in your area. Deeper silver dimes "7"+" are weak signals on the MXT in my ground, if you can hear them at all. I have read some gold hunters posts where they would have preferred a manual GB option on the MXT (although for a different reason than what I am getting at. My thought is, would it also help in certain ground conditions (like mine) on the weak high conductive target signals.
It was just a thought for consideration that I wanted to get Jeff's opinion on. Heck the more manual control the better, Right?
HH Tom
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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am I correct in saying that you can determine the strength of the mineralization with the dfx according to page 43 in your book? I have done that after mine read -95 in the dc phase and came up with a 0.
"I have read some gold hunters posts where they would have preferred a manual GB option on the MXT".
Excuse me for being ignorant but I thought that pumping the coil up and down WAS manually ground balancing the MXT. I'm just a poor dirt farmer. All this is a bit over my head. Can any one tell me in plain english what all this means? Am i missing good targets by ignoring the -95 signals because since the numbers "wrap" around, the target might really be a +94? When I'm in prospect mode to check the ground and it reads 80 it doesn't mean the soil is highly mineralized?
What am I supposed to be taking away from all this info? Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get it but does any of this make any difference to the average MXT user?
Are you saying that all the people who have bought MXT's have been duped? Any help on clearing this up would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Excuse me for being ignorant but I thought that pumping the coil up and down WAS manually ground balancing the MXT. I'm just a poor dirt farmer. All this is a bit over my head. Can any one tell me in plain english what all this means? Am i missing good targets by ignoring the -95 signals because since the numbers "wrap" around, the target might really be a +94? When I'm in prospect mode to check the ground and it reads 80 it doesn't mean the soil is highly mineralized?
What am I supposed to be taking away from all this info? Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't get it but does any of this make any difference to the average MXT user?
Are you saying that all the people who have bought MXT's have been duped? Any help on clearing this up would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
The MXT has automatic ground balancing, which means that it does it's best to automatically detect the mineralization of the ground and balance it out. When you're pumping it up and down, it is detecting how hot your ground is. Many machines out there have a ground balance knob where the user manually adjusts their machine for their ground, hence the term "manual ground balancing".
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Anonymous
Guest
<strong>"I thought that pumping the coil up and down WAS manually ground balancing the MXT."</strong>
This process, when "TRAC" is set to "SALT" or "GROUND", causes the computer in the MXT to <em>automatically</em> ground-balance the unit. To manually ground-balance a detector that supports that feature, a control is adjusted until the coil no longer responds to the ground.
<strong>"Am i missing good targets by ignoring the -95 signals because since the numbers "wrap" around, the target might really be a +94?"</strong>
The short answer is maybe. But, this is unlikely unless the target is very weak (deep) and in moderately strong ferrous mineralization. Except in this one case, were a high-VDI target might read as a -95, positive VDI targets tend to be "well behaved" and don't wrap over into the negative VDI region. Iron targets aren't well behaved and do sometimes wrap around and give a high-VDI response. Most of the time when this happens, though, the MXT will hide this from the user and display a -95 "hot rock" indication instead. But sometimes iron targets, at certain sweep angles, do show up as positive VDI numbers.
<strong>"When I'm in prospect mode to check the ground and it reads 80 it doesn't mean the soil is highly mineralized?"</strong>
No. It does not mean that the "soil is highly mineralized." That is the point of the parent post in this thread. Don't feel bad. This is very widespread misunderstanding.
<strong>"What am I supposed to be taking away from all this info?"</strong>
The main point, as it pertains to the MXT, is that when you "check the ground and it reads 80" <em>this does not mean that the soil is highly mineralized</em> and therefore does not indicate that a smaller coil will perform better.
<strong>"Are you saying that all the people who have bought MXT's have been duped?"</strong>
The MXT is a very impressive machine. But the widespread misunderstanding that the GND reading is a way to tell the strength of the ground mineralization is wrong. The main reason it exists on the MXT is to allow the operator to find boundaries between different <em>types</em> of mineralization deposits because these locations are often where gold may be found. It does not tell you the strength of the mineralization.
Hope this helps.
Enjoy.
This process, when "TRAC" is set to "SALT" or "GROUND", causes the computer in the MXT to <em>automatically</em> ground-balance the unit. To manually ground-balance a detector that supports that feature, a control is adjusted until the coil no longer responds to the ground.
<strong>"Am i missing good targets by ignoring the -95 signals because since the numbers "wrap" around, the target might really be a +94?"</strong>
The short answer is maybe. But, this is unlikely unless the target is very weak (deep) and in moderately strong ferrous mineralization. Except in this one case, were a high-VDI target might read as a -95, positive VDI targets tend to be "well behaved" and don't wrap over into the negative VDI region. Iron targets aren't well behaved and do sometimes wrap around and give a high-VDI response. Most of the time when this happens, though, the MXT will hide this from the user and display a -95 "hot rock" indication instead. But sometimes iron targets, at certain sweep angles, do show up as positive VDI numbers.
<strong>"When I'm in prospect mode to check the ground and it reads 80 it doesn't mean the soil is highly mineralized?"</strong>
No. It does not mean that the "soil is highly mineralized." That is the point of the parent post in this thread. Don't feel bad. This is very widespread misunderstanding.
<strong>"What am I supposed to be taking away from all this info?"</strong>
The main point, as it pertains to the MXT, is that when you "check the ground and it reads 80" <em>this does not mean that the soil is highly mineralized</em> and therefore does not indicate that a smaller coil will perform better.
<strong>"Are you saying that all the people who have bought MXT's have been duped?"</strong>
The MXT is a very impressive machine. But the widespread misunderstanding that the GND reading is a way to tell the strength of the ground mineralization is wrong. The main reason it exists on the MXT is to allow the operator to find boundaries between different <em>types</em> of mineralization deposits because these locations are often where gold may be found. It does not tell you the strength of the mineralization.
Hope this helps.
Enjoy.
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Anonymous
Guest
Yes, the strength of the ground mineralization can be estimated using the technique described in my book, "Digging Deeper with the DFX." A technique that uses the same principles can be done on the MXT, but that's a future post.
Your reading of 0 indicates very strong mineralization (your ground mineralization signal corresponds to the strength of a coin 0 inches from the coil). The D.C. Phase reading near -95 is consistent with what one would expect from strong mineralization, but a reading near -95 may not necessarily indicate strong mineralization. In your case a smaller coil (or narrower in the case of DD coils) should provide improved performance in general and (since the DFX allows it) 3kHz Only mode may provide improved performance for high-VDI targets in particular.
Enjoy.
Your reading of 0 indicates very strong mineralization (your ground mineralization signal corresponds to the strength of a coin 0 inches from the coil). The D.C. Phase reading near -95 is consistent with what one would expect from strong mineralization, but a reading near -95 may not necessarily indicate strong mineralization. In your case a smaller coil (or narrower in the case of DD coils) should provide improved performance in general and (since the DFX allows it) 3kHz Only mode may provide improved performance for high-VDI targets in particular.
Enjoy.
Jackpine Savage
Active member
n/t
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Anonymous
Guest
Thanks for this excellent thread Jeff.
capnron
capnron
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Anonymous
Guest
<strong>"If the GND reading is high, say above 70, does it still stand that a DD coil will perform better? Or is that a myth too?"</strong>
That is a key point. A GND reading doesn't tell you when a small coil will perform better. A "DD coil <em>will</em> perform better" in strong mineralization, but a GND reading does not tell the strength of the mineralization.
I don't know if myth is the right word. The key points made in this thread are subtle and it can be easily seen how they could be misunderstood to arrive at the incorrect conclusion that a high GND reading means the ground mineralization is strong; especially with the way that one sentence in the MXT manual is worded.
Enjoy.
That is a key point. A GND reading doesn't tell you when a small coil will perform better. A "DD coil <em>will</em> perform better" in strong mineralization, but a GND reading does not tell the strength of the mineralization.
I don't know if myth is the right word. The key points made in this thread are subtle and it can be easily seen how they could be misunderstood to arrive at the incorrect conclusion that a high GND reading means the ground mineralization is strong; especially with the way that one sentence in the MXT manual is worded.
Enjoy.
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Anonymous
Guest
can jump from high positive numbers to -95. It's been quite a while (I can't find the dime anymore?), but I may have even seen -94 & -93. But this is at the extreme limits of visual ID depth. And I'm guessing this soil condition would not be likely to cause coins to read -80, -50, or -20. I'm guessing most negative numbers may never be a coin, but I'm not a technical expert. HH, George (MN)
BuckeyeBrad
New member
it actually makes sense to me given some of my observations in the field. 