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why pay more????

R

r.r.warren

New member
hello, this is a question Ive been hashing over for so time now. why would i want to pay for a detector that cost say 550.00 (coin$) vs 200.00 (f2 + 4" coil) when both units have about the same depth,and features or the ace 250 vs gtax550, f2 vs f4, 250 vs musketeer, f4 vs cz3d, is there that much difference to justify the cost. iam using the ace 250 now, but want a primary unit i can also use at the beach.should i go with the coin$, cz3d, minelab sov,advantage,etc.......or just get the f2 or f4 for a 3rd of the cost and almost the same performance
 
If the beach you mention is a saltwater beach, and you plan on spending 25% or more of your time there, and you want to detect over damp and wet sand, then a dual or multi-frequency detector would be a good choice. The CZ series, minelab sov, minelab explorer etc would be your best bet.

There are a couple of single frequency detectors that have a saltwater mode that will work to some extent. But once again you are looking at the more expensive single freqs to get that feature. None of the new F-series are really saltwater machines, as they are single frequency.

If the $200 detectors were able to compete performance wise with the $1K detectors, then no one would buy the the $1K detectors. People are not buying them($1K) as a status symbol, but to increase their own rate & quality of finds. So be careful about individuals making claims that a given $200 detector is trumping the high end machines.

HH
BarnacleBill
 
Barnacle Bill has a good point.I think you usually get what you pay for performance wise.A couple of years ago I searched a park using a ID Excel and Ace 250 side by side checking the targets of each unit..The ground conditions at this park the Excel was deeper and ID-ed the coin much better than the Ace.The point a 479.00 unit vs a 200.00 in my opinion the performance of these units reflected their price tags.
 
For most clad hunting the Ace 250, F2.F4 GTAx 550 plus many other will work as good as the $1000 + detector, some may not separate as good as some, but all in all they will work fine. Now where the difference comes in is where the area has been pounded over the year where you need all the advantages like fast recovery to see coins next to trash or those that are deeper than the lower line detectors. The lower line are easier to use and good for those that want to get into the hobby so they don't give up because they cant figure out all the settings and what they do.
You can find good targets with the lower line detectors, but the chance are not as good in well worked area and for the deeper targets. The higher end ones take a little more to learn and they too will get trash targets too, but some give you several more options to maybe pick out more of the good ones from the bad targets.
There is a difference in the detectors, but if you are going to just hunt clad at the local school or parks you don't need a $1000 plus detector, but if you are going to hunt site that have been well worked or older you will do better with the higher end detectors if you take the time to get to know them.

Rick
 
o.k now the question is which one. what kind of hunting do i do? that depends on where my research takes me. it could be the beach, old homestead, a field, a lake or any where it might be. one good point is the soil here in Fla is neutral except at the beach. i see for hardcore detecting i need a better tool than the ace 250. maybe the coin$ (it came down in price) cz3d, or the minelab sov. the 250 I'll keep as my back-up. by the way Ive researched a park and picnic area with a swimming pool that was opened in 1910 for about 10 years. i found it in the middle of a swamp like area all over grown found the swimming pool and all. the bugs ate me alive hoping for a freeze so i can get back to detect with my new detector if i can ever make up my mind on which one to get cause after i bought the ace 250 a month later the f2 comes out and now iam thinking i should of bought it. i could go on and on but I'll stop (for now)later
 
I have read all the post to you.... All are correct................. Heres one more....................................

Because if you do not buy whats perceived as the best, & deepest..You will always wonder...Could I have found more and deeper items.
This great Hobby takes hold of you, and you will buy it down the road..(Better machine)..so just do it now..save in the long run.
 
I agree with Rick,there are hunters who use top end 1000 dollar machines who just hunt clad who would probably be better off with a lighter less complicated metal detector.I 'm planning a trip only to the area on horseback a couple of old late 1800 foundations.This would require a light unit that will break down in a back pack no need for excess weight.
 
Some user enter the hobby from a wrong direction by asking what detector is the best and deepest.

The question should be:" What detector is the right on for ME ?"

It's like just having your divers licence for a day and buying a 300hp muscle car.

Before someone buys a detector he should know:

- What are his skills when it comes to electronic devices
- What kind of detecting he wants to do.
- How often is he going to metal detect
- How much money can he spend
- What features would he like to have

Just to give you some ideas........

With that said, I say some users are better of with a Fisher F2 which is easy to operate, inexpensive, lightweight, has good important features than with a high priced "top of the line" detector they can't handle or would just be overshoot for the type of hunting he plans to do.

Second point is : The gap in performance and features between the low priced detectors like the F2 or Ace 250 (i won't even call them "entry level" anymore) and the high priced "top of the line" detectors is getting smaller. Check what you can buy now for $200 and how it performs. These days you don't have to hide anymore because you have a low price detector.
The F2 sure can out-hunt many more expensive detectors like the GTAx line or Prizm line. I'm not hyping here, I've used them all and I know what i talk about.

Third point is: Right tool for the job. I've hunted spots with the Ace 250 and sniper coil or Fisher F2 and 4" coil where other detectorists have been with multi hundred $$$ detectors and large coils.
A small coil was the right tool to use in these trashy areas and it did the trick.

Don't get me wrong, a Fisher F75 in the right hands with the right coil can do more for the hunter than the F2. But for right "out of the box" performance the F2 may be the better choice to start with.

HH,

Andy,NM
 
thanks for the info gentlemen, as far as electronic devices I'm pretty knowledgeable. as far as what type like i stated before all types. how often? when ever i can I'm out the door detector in hand see ya don't want to be ya.. if its a couple hours down the street at the park or the homestead across the way I'm gone. the features I'd like is good disc. and a detector that makes different tones to different metals the ace 250 don't do that if i had that id know what i was digging before i dug it a lot of the time. at the park there's a lake I'm finding freaking lead sinkers everywhere i don't want to elem them out because of rings will be elem out too their right at nickel. but if i had different tones for different metals boom id be digging alot less and i could also run in all-metal for more depth. at the park I'm running in jewelry mode or all-metal mode sensitivity 1 click back from wide open it false a little but i can work with that. pinpointing is getting better center is not so much center of the coil but more back toward the stem. more i use it the better I'm getting. found clad coins, sinkers, 9mm bullet, part of a fishing reel,pull tabs more sinker etc....what the hell was i talking about oh ya I'll learn this detector good before i get something else but it wont be long. thanks again! later......................
 
If you know for certain that you will be visiting saltwater beaches often, then a dual or multi-freq is the way to go. The F2, F4, F75, or ACE250 are not well suited to that task and could lead to a good deal of frustration on your part. Keep the ACE250 for inland hunting and possible dry sand work at the beach. It also can fit the role of a scouting machine for quick hunts of new areas. A CZ or multi-freq WILL go deeper than the low end machines, and WILL handle high mineralization better than the cheaper units.

If you have used the ACE250 to any extent, then you should have the basics down which, will help in a transition to a detector with more features. Meanwhile, continue using the ACE250 to hone your skills more while you decide on your next move. If by chance you decide that beach work is not all that important, and you wish to move up into the mid-priced single frequency machines, then your choices become much wider in regards to price and feature/performance set.

In the Fisher brand there is the C$, Edge, Excel; Minelab has the X-Terra line; Tesoro offers many knob only based models if that's a direction you would like to pursue; and White's has the M6, MXT & Classics that fall within mid-line range. Mr. Bill a forum sponsor, modifies some of the White's to really enhance their performance.

Whatever path you decide to take, look around the forums for individuals that are hunting for the same types of targets that you are in similar circumstances. Ask them what they are using and why? Get as many opinions as you can, but be mindful that some individuals get caught up in a single brand, and develop a rather myopic view(Ford vs Chevy). Also seek out a local club for more opinions or join up with someone from a forum from your area.

HH
BarnacleBill
 
I been hunting a black sand salt water beach for the last month and 6 months ago I hunted it for 3 straight weeks and 1 week in Daytona.

The F75 is the only single freq. I have that will hunt this beach. My Fisher's CZ20, CZ6A, CZ3D, CZ70 won't even G/B on this beach there is so much black sand here. Just have to turn the G/B knob to 10 and hunt away. My 6000XLpro will hunt but not that much depth 8" max even in SAT mode.The Xterra 70 won't, even with the beach mode on. MXT won't hunt and it has a salt sw.,ID X cell won't. ID edge won't, 250 won't, Shadow X5 won't and it has a beach mode. The Fo iron and mineralization indicator on my F75 runs anywhere from .01 which is min. to 3 which is max. Just depends on how much black sand there is. Then it is layered most of the time.

The higher up in the sand the worse it is.The F75 will work right down at the waters edge and even in the salt water. Even up high where that black sand peggs out the Fo indicator it will hunt but you get more ground flutter and more of a wherring flutter but you can still get good targets deep.

I have dug down 10 to 12"s on coins and the med sized pull tabs. The Id numbers do drop some the deeper you go and at 11 and 12"s you will only get the Zip Zip on the good targets. The iron will pop on the big stuff like a POW. It gives a bada on small iron and a baaaa on the med sized pieces of iron. After you hunt with it a while in all metal you will get used to it and you can swing fast and can cover a lot of beach. It will hunt fast just like the dirt and you don't have to hunt slow like the M/L's. Your ID and depth wont be as good as the Multi Freq machines but when you get right down to it, at the beach you are going to dig everything above 0 any way. The more corroded the coins the more the numbers will very. I hate Zincs but even after a month and three weeks on this bad a$$ beach I can tell if it is a corroded Zinc just by the bad numbers. The good thing is the numbers don't jump around much on pulltabs ,gold, and foil, nickle targets.

The biggest problem on this beach with all the single freq. detectors I have tested is all the small iron and med sized pieces that cause eveyone of the single freq. detectors in the Dis. mode to give a false high ID number indications. Even the F75 won't hunt in Dis. Mode. None of the others ID in all metal other then the 6000XLPRO and like I said I could only get 8" out of it in Sat. mode.

The only problem I had was shutting up the ground flutter to where the machine ran pretty quite without all the wherring and chippy audio from the salt water, and black sand. I cured that by changing the freq to F7 and running the threshole at a -1 instead of 0 in all metal and run the sen. at 80, G/B at 0. Above 80 it got a little chippy.. You just have to remember to reset your Freq. when you turn your detector off and then back on cause, it returns to F5 when you turn it off and of coarse put it back in all metal. It is excellent on the small stuff and the gold. You can't touch the sand because it will false but you will even be able to know that by the type of false it will make. Hell,with my Se with the stock coil,joey coil,Platypuss coil, the machine will false when I touch the sand. The 10X14 Excellerator coil and the new 6" excellerator don't false and I can drag them on the sand. M/L needs to put the Excellerator coils on instead of the slimline. Although my GT don't false. :shrug: .

I know this was a long one but, the F75 will hunt on the worst black sand beach I ever hunted on and this one is worse then hunting on Galveston TX. Beach. If I can ever figuar out how to post pictures I took some of this beach over here. BTW I have hunted Galveston too and the F75 preformed just as good. I hunted some of the black sand places in Daytona also. So it ain't like I have just hunted this beach.

Now will the F75 out preform the GT, Fishers, The Explorers in ID and depth. Of coarse not. Will it give them a real run for there money. You damn right it will and it will find gold and small stuff, and it will find it deep. I have not counted all the coins yet and I have thrown a heck of a lot of Zincs away. Did I say I hate Zincs??? Between the nice Heart shaped 20 diamond ring and this nice 1/2kt diamond markee with 5 small diamonds on each side of the ring the F75 just with those two have paid for itself and that is what it is all about. My sweetie loves them both.

Ok so now let me make it real clear. Yes the F75 will hunt the wet salt sand beaches but, more then likley you will have to G/B to 0 run sen. at 80 max, threshold to -1 freq at 7 and run it in all metal. I do hope some of you really put some time at the beach with the F75 and enjoy it as much as I do. F75:inlove: for me and I hope it will be for you to. You might have to play around with your set up but mine will get you off to a good start. Just spend the time to learn it and you will see what I am talking about. :D: :D: HH Later Jerry aka Tinfoil
 
Thanks Jerry, for the great F75, beach hunting report. My better half and I are heading down that way shortly and I am anxious to try my F75 on the beaches. Thanks again, HH jim tn
 
Keep something in mind Jerry, this gentleman is a newbie. How many posts have you seen that experienced detectorist's have tried the F75 on mild inland ground, and given up in frustration because of a very long list of do's & dont's on settings? He would be much better off with setting the GB on a CZ at 10, reducing sensitivity and just hunting, rather than spend the time trying to figure out an F75. He's not an old pirate like you that likes to twiddle.:rofl:

On those little dadburn pieces of steel/iron that false on high coin, especially on black sand beaches, the X70 is the only detector I have run that will correctly ID them in disc mode. Run GB beach mode, tracking on, sensitivity around 15(depending on coil), Pattern 1 with -2,-4,-6 the only segments rejected. That is -8 & +48 accepted. By doing so you'll see those little pieces of iron wrap every time, it's a tell tale signature of them. I can't tell you how much diggin' this has saved me. But this is twiddlin' too.:rofl:

So if I were a multi-line dealer, I'd still be steering him towards a CZ, simple, powerful, & reliable.

Now don't be frettin' that no one replies to your posts! :rofl:

HH
BarnacleBill
 
alright you two, if i have to go thru all that I'm going to throw the detector in the ocean and walk down to froggy's and get drunk.
 
I may be mistaken but its my understand that the x-70 could probably do ALL the things you want, but
the price is somewhere in the $600 range. Of course you could always get it used.
Regards
RR
 
Try it again. I do think I rejected all the low numbers and I dropped it to 15 like you had done in the FAQ on the X70 Forum. Ran beach on, G/Bed it, sen down at 15 I did bring it again along with a few others. If I remember Right I think I even got it up to SEn. of 18 and even took the 18.75 khz coil off and put my 7 khz 9" coil back on and I still could not get any depth out of it compaired to the F75. Mater of fact the 9" concentric ran a little beter then the DD figuar that one out. Still no depth to speak of. I think it was due to this very black layered highly mineralized black sand. I do not remember if I had tracking on or off but I think it was on. I am pretty sure I ran everything like you had in your FAQ. There is so much of this small iron the high tone pop and high ID numbers make you have to work to hard for the shallow depth I was getting. I think 6"s was all I got and that just don't cut it with me. To me that means it don't work enough to qualify as a beach mode detector not here anyway. You have to remember this is one dog gone tough beach to work. I hardly ever see anyone one it. I know of only 4 guys and me that work it and they run Sov's, Exp's, with 12" and WOT's. OK got to go hunting. I will try the X70 again and get back to all you guys. Damn I :inlove: being Retired and can take month long vacation anytime I want to. :rofl: :D: :D: .Later Bud Jerry aka Tinfoil.
 
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