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Why do non metered detectors out perform metered detectors?
- Thread starter Mick in Dubbo
- Start date
Mick in Dubbo
New member
Then you are the guy I am quoting about that goldie being walked over. Cool. Did it give a good signal that you remember? I assume that you mustn't have live too far from here when you wrote the artical. I've been rereading it yesterday and today. Good read.
Mick Evans.
Mick Evans.
Hi Mick,
I've just re-read the article myself. I thnk the $2 you're referring to is the one that was discoloured (grey). This was found in Tamworth, in an area which is well tramped. The soil in this area has the effect on coins that have been buried for some time in that they come in on the disc. scale considerably lower than you would expect. i.e. a $2 comes in round about the 20c mark. I've verified this several times with different detectors .e.g. my Tesoro Eldorado and my Minelab Explorer II (when I had it). So, anyone detecting with disc. set to knock out anything below $2 would either get no signal or a very iffy one. From memory, this $2 gave a good solid signal (as did the $1 which was under the pulltab, mentioned in the article. Finding that $1 really made me aware as to how good the Cibola is). I took it to Newcastle one weekend when I took my daughter down there, and found many $2 coins which were all down 4" to 6" in the soil, below grass. I dont know whether these were too deep for whoever detects there, or just didn't signal well enough to worry about, but there were definite signs that someone else detected in the area where I was. If you dont want to worry about gold too much, there is a setting on the Cibola which basically knocks out all pulltabs, but still signals on 50c, $1 and $2, silver rings and pre-decimals that come in above the 50c range. As I said, the Cibola is something special (my daughter found her first silver ring with mine, at the beach). I remember one occasion I took the Cibola to the beach, and in one small spot found half a dozen or so coins, all at good depth..it was winter. The next day, a fellow was detecting in the same spot with his Sovereign with a 15" WOT. I had been talking to him earlier, and when he was leaving the same small area I had detected the day before, I asked him if he had found anything (as I had seen him digging a bit). "Only junk" was his reply, and his demeanour backed it up. I was only curious as to whether the Cibola missed anything, & whether ther was something deeper that the sovereign might find, but evidently the Cibola had done a pretty good job. I was using the 9x8 concentric coil. If you're looking for a non-metered machine, you could do a lot worse. No frills, sheer power. All the Best.
I've just re-read the article myself. I thnk the $2 you're referring to is the one that was discoloured (grey). This was found in Tamworth, in an area which is well tramped. The soil in this area has the effect on coins that have been buried for some time in that they come in on the disc. scale considerably lower than you would expect. i.e. a $2 comes in round about the 20c mark. I've verified this several times with different detectors .e.g. my Tesoro Eldorado and my Minelab Explorer II (when I had it). So, anyone detecting with disc. set to knock out anything below $2 would either get no signal or a very iffy one. From memory, this $2 gave a good solid signal (as did the $1 which was under the pulltab, mentioned in the article. Finding that $1 really made me aware as to how good the Cibola is). I took it to Newcastle one weekend when I took my daughter down there, and found many $2 coins which were all down 4" to 6" in the soil, below grass. I dont know whether these were too deep for whoever detects there, or just didn't signal well enough to worry about, but there were definite signs that someone else detected in the area where I was. If you dont want to worry about gold too much, there is a setting on the Cibola which basically knocks out all pulltabs, but still signals on 50c, $1 and $2, silver rings and pre-decimals that come in above the 50c range. As I said, the Cibola is something special (my daughter found her first silver ring with mine, at the beach). I remember one occasion I took the Cibola to the beach, and in one small spot found half a dozen or so coins, all at good depth..it was winter. The next day, a fellow was detecting in the same spot with his Sovereign with a 15" WOT. I had been talking to him earlier, and when he was leaving the same small area I had detected the day before, I asked him if he had found anything (as I had seen him digging a bit). "Only junk" was his reply, and his demeanour backed it up. I was only curious as to whether the Cibola missed anything, & whether ther was something deeper that the sovereign might find, but evidently the Cibola had done a pretty good job. I was using the 9x8 concentric coil. If you're looking for a non-metered machine, you could do a lot worse. No frills, sheer power. All the Best.
Mick in Dubbo
New member
Thanks for all the info Furious. that clears a few things up. The good news for those that dig up the 20's and 50's and if a goldie is on edge, it can actually push the TID a number higher, then you can cover those unexpected shifts.
I think that in your article, that you covered why some coins that are shallow, gives weak signals.(Minerlisation.) I recovered one of those yesterday. It was a $2 coin that gave only a parital signal. Although it locked on a steady reading on the TID, when I recovered it, it was on edge and was corroded. I actually recovered 3 iffy signals in that 1 hour hunt. The $2 coin, a bent 20 cent piece that was just under the surface, and a silver ring that was also just under the grass. I'm going to need to change the way I go about listening to signals.
Mick Evans.
I think that in your article, that you covered why some coins that are shallow, gives weak signals.(Minerlisation.) I recovered one of those yesterday. It was a $2 coin that gave only a parital signal. Although it locked on a steady reading on the TID, when I recovered it, it was on edge and was corroded. I actually recovered 3 iffy signals in that 1 hour hunt. The $2 coin, a bent 20 cent piece that was just under the surface, and a silver ring that was also just under the grass. I'm going to need to change the way I go about listening to signals.
Mick Evans.
IMHO a quality non metered machine will outhunt a quality metered machine almost all the time. with a non metered you go by sound of the target, sure you will dig more trash but you will always find more stuff. I have hunted many areas that I thought i cleaned out pretty good with my XLT, then I went over it with my Cibola and found a bunch more stuff. metered machines tend to make you lazy and people put way too much faith in the visual discrimination. many times I have passed up good sounding signals because the VDI numbers just weren't right. went back over the area with the Cibola and dug by sound only and found out these iffy VDI numbers were caused by junk lieing on or near the good target and lots of these targets were very good ones. now when i'm using my metered machine I dont rely so much on the VDI numbers as I do the sound and repeatability of the target.
Mick in Dubbo
New member
That's a pretty good summation Howdy. My thinking on the subject of TID's has shifted. I'm now a lot less trusting of them. Werewolf has shown me how effective the Cibola is. I got to use his briefly, on a hunt we got together last christmas. (we live almost 500kms apart.) He tells me that it's real easy to hear the difference between coins and other targets with it (coins giving a quieter tone). My ears aren't tuned in to it as yet. From now on, I'll be focused on the tones of detectors far more than any screen and that will be the main focus of any further purchases and use.
Mick Evans.
Mick Evans.
Another thing to consider is if you have a TID machine with independent audio and video, you will sometimes dig keepers that give a good TID reading, but not an audio sound that you would otherwise consider digging. It works both ways, the audio is not always more accurate.
I consider TID another useful tool in the dirt fishing arsenal, not something that causes me to disregard good audio signals.
No doubt using a non-metered machine will sharpen your senses to audio...
Walking around with a blindfold on will also sharpen your senses to audio, but I'm not doing that either.
And that's not a knock on Tesoro, they make fine machines, I'm a big fan and still have a Compadre for certain circumstances.
I consider TID another useful tool in the dirt fishing arsenal, not something that causes me to disregard good audio signals.
No doubt using a non-metered machine will sharpen your senses to audio...
Walking around with a blindfold on will also sharpen your senses to audio, but I'm not doing that either.
And that's not a knock on Tesoro, they make fine machines, I'm a big fan and still have a Compadre for certain circumstances.
Well I've spent a couple hours today with the Toltec II & I can say the meter is nice to have.... the depth reading is spot on and the ID works very well too. After about an hour I could just about call what was coming out of the ground before digging it. The tones are great too, all in all I think this is going to be a great little detector to have in my collection. it's not too bad with the 5.75 coil as far as weight goes. After swinging it with the 8" brown coil for the first hour the 5.75 was a dramatic weight change to me. It works very well on the toltec and I may just keep the 5.75 coil on it all the time. If you want to try a metered unit I would suggest trying the Toltec out. It's an older Tesoro and the meter is analog with the needle, but still a great little detector for the money difference over the newer TID machines Tesoro has out now. One thing that's nice about the meter on the Toltec II is that the light for the meter has it's own seperate battery source, so it won't draw from the detector batteries. 
"I have found that the more time I spend with any detector I've had, the better I get with it."
Being a Tesoro forum, I think a lot of guys will er in favor of non metered machines .....Metered or not , I think that this is one of the best statements that was made in this whole thread !!!..... It speaks VOLUMES !!!.....Jim
Being a Tesoro forum, I think a lot of guys will er in favor of non metered machines .....Metered or not , I think that this is one of the best statements that was made in this whole thread !!!..... It speaks VOLUMES !!!.....Jim
A lot depends on your unit and your abilities and perhaps the other guy knows his machine better than you know yours..Very debateable subject and many excell with either and a lot has to do with the nut behind the wheel sort of analogy. Nothing against your abilities but non metered unit users usually dig a lot more rather than being selective and those that investigate excell...
Was out with my Tejon yesterday with a friend who runs a Fisher F75LTD. We went to two of his spots he has worked hard. The Tejon surprised him at both locations.
He dug more trash with the Fisher.
Just brass relics from the first site, but he got only nails.
From the second I got a 42 merc. dime out of a spot he worked with his Fisher. It was in near some trash and only a few inches down. it was the only silver for our hunt.
In defense of the Fisher I will say that my friend is still learning the new Fisher. Reinforces what is said about having experience with your chosen machine.
He dug more trash with the Fisher.
Just brass relics from the first site, but he got only nails.
From the second I got a 42 merc. dime out of a spot he worked with his Fisher. It was in near some trash and only a few inches down. it was the only silver for our hunt.
In defense of the Fisher I will say that my friend is still learning the new Fisher. Reinforces what is said about having experience with your chosen machine.
If by digging MORE makes you think that you excell , then your earlier statement works for you ......That's great if it does .....It doesn't work for me though .....Digging MORE to me just makse me tired !!...My thoughts are " Do I dig quantity so that my chances of finding something good go up ? " or should I be thinking " Be more selective and spend more time setting up my machine to dig targets that I KNOW will be good, and maybe I'll run into something else while I"m digging " .....I can understand your approach as you really don't have much of a choice ....You really pretty much have to dig everything or close to it ......I cam be more selective with my machine .....I can garauntee you that if we were both brought to the same area that neither of us knew , and were told to dig only 30 spots each , that I could come out with better targets ..... You will dig your targets FASTER because you are digging just about everything you hear go BEEP !!... It's not a matter of being right or wrong ....It's a matter of how you like to hunt, and what your expectations are ..... The only time I dig just about everything is when I'm at the beach and if it's a clad coin that is just a scoop or two away, or If I hear a Gold signal, I"ll dig to CHINA for it !!.... Jim
I left out the fact that I dug way LESS than my friend with the Fisher. As a matter of fact I only dug two nails, and one was only because it was too deep for his Fisher to even pick up. I only got one piece of aluminum, it was faint and deep, a hubcap from a Studebaker I think, (big "S" on it) I was his guest and I didn't want to dig like a rodent so I was selective with my targets. I made less holes and found better targets from an area he has already worked. Just because I don't have a screen does not mean I cannot listen and thumb my discrimination knob. You see numbers, I see where on the dial the target starts to break, plus listen to the Tejons language. I'll take that 30 hole bet any day and will only lose out on the deepest targets. Within the depth capabilities of the Tejon I will hold my own in discriminating out the trash. Just remember in the end, no matter the outcome, you have 3x the money invested and no lifetime warranty.
blowfly1967
New member
i may not be an expert like some of you,but,i think you should try to be more objective in your blasting of metered detectors.i have four tesoro detectors non metered i have found heaps of keepables with them.however i now have a minelab e trac and going over places i have been before,i'm finding more missed targets.when i got my e trac,i was instructed to listen to the tones and only look at the screen if confirmation was in doubt.this detector to me is a golden u max with a screen.i rarely look at the screen.it doesn't operate on one frequency,it chooses the best frequency to operate in.it allows me to choose how i want to search an area and what i don't want to see.personally i feel what ever detector you are happiest with is the best detector no matter what others think.bye for now,blowfly
Southwind
Well-known member
I think such a statement is mostly just personal belief. My experience has been the same as blowfly. My Tesoros, non metered, are great detectors but do not get the depth or discrimination performance of my metered detectors.
I think it's like asking the question why do hamburgers taste like crap?
I think it's like asking the question why do hamburgers taste like crap?
Hi Fenien ,
My E Trac is just about paid for in about 3 mos time, hunting 3 times a week .....I have some nice saltwater beaches near me that yield some nice finds that you might not have in your area , and you would not be able to hunt them unless you turned your sensitivity so low that you would not hear the deeper targets ....I cannot speak for the Tejon's deiscrimination, but I am less than thrilled with my brothers Silver uMax .... I can go almost to the Silver range with his discrimination knob , and STILL hear nickels loud and clear !!...I know you are proabably saying " why would he want to do that ? ......I have a program on my E Trac that is set up to except Silver and Gold ONLY ...I can't do that on ANY Tesoro ..... I stil dig my fair share of foil in the Gold range, as well as certain screw caps in the Silver range, but it sitll minimizes my digging ..... The parks I dig are trashiy , so you would have no problem there ....Some of them are highly mineralized , and have really DEEP Silver, where you would have a problem , and I would not even THINK to take you to the beach to hunt the trough which would be in the wet salt area , and you would not be able to read in Black Sand ..... So when you mention 3 times the price, this is what I have to pay to hunt the area's that bring me the best finds !!.... I'm not as limited as you are as to where I can hunt ....Grant it , the Tesoro is a GREAT machine for what it does , it does very well ...I don't deny that ....The fun factor is there too since it's so light and easy to swing with a VERY fast recovery rate , but it only BEGINS to cover the needs that I have in a detector .... Variety IS the spice of life ..... I"m glad that the Tejon does the job for you .......It's not enough for me ....I'm sure that there were even much more simple machines back in the day and guys were making some GREAT finds with them , and had a great time doing it ..... I'm not going to stay back in old technology just because it's cheaper, and because my forefathers used this technology and did fine with it ....I am going to use the best technology that's out there within reason ..... Again, my needs are different than yours .....I'm happy with my machine, and you are happy with yours ...We both win ....Happy Hunting !!....Jim
My E Trac is just about paid for in about 3 mos time, hunting 3 times a week .....I have some nice saltwater beaches near me that yield some nice finds that you might not have in your area , and you would not be able to hunt them unless you turned your sensitivity so low that you would not hear the deeper targets ....I cannot speak for the Tejon's deiscrimination, but I am less than thrilled with my brothers Silver uMax .... I can go almost to the Silver range with his discrimination knob , and STILL hear nickels loud and clear !!...I know you are proabably saying " why would he want to do that ? ......I have a program on my E Trac that is set up to except Silver and Gold ONLY ...I can't do that on ANY Tesoro ..... I stil dig my fair share of foil in the Gold range, as well as certain screw caps in the Silver range, but it sitll minimizes my digging ..... The parks I dig are trashiy , so you would have no problem there ....Some of them are highly mineralized , and have really DEEP Silver, where you would have a problem , and I would not even THINK to take you to the beach to hunt the trough which would be in the wet salt area , and you would not be able to read in Black Sand ..... So when you mention 3 times the price, this is what I have to pay to hunt the area's that bring me the best finds !!.... I'm not as limited as you are as to where I can hunt ....Grant it , the Tesoro is a GREAT machine for what it does , it does very well ...I don't deny that ....The fun factor is there too since it's so light and easy to swing with a VERY fast recovery rate , but it only BEGINS to cover the needs that I have in a detector .... Variety IS the spice of life ..... I"m glad that the Tejon does the job for you .......It's not enough for me ....I'm sure that there were even much more simple machines back in the day and guys were making some GREAT finds with them , and had a great time doing it ..... I'm not going to stay back in old technology just because it's cheaper, and because my forefathers used this technology and did fine with it ....I am going to use the best technology that's out there within reason ..... Again, my needs are different than yours .....I'm happy with my machine, and you are happy with yours ...We both win ....Happy Hunting !!....Jim
Jim, I have NO doubts about the Etrac's abilities. The Tejon is limited to land. What would level the playing field would be to hunt good soil with the Etrac limited to "beeps" only, no meter. As I said before, I am looking at the Minelabs. The service and dependability worries me though. I am just at the start (I hope) of my metal detecting career. The Tejon was my first machine and has paid for itself plus. Being able to find treasure amongst the trash is more dependent on the user than the machine. Very slow and the right small coil works for me. I don't really think we can compare the Tejon to the Etrac. Metered against metered, beep against beep maybe, with price considerations as well. But not a fair comparison in all reality. I will say that I don't know anything firsthand about any other Tesoro. The Tejon is a fine machine for the money in my estimation. I don't live near any saltwater beaches, but I am ready for a machine that has greater potential than the Tejon. As far as "beep" machines are concerned, I think the Tejon may be the best. If we ever hunted together I think the Tejon's ability to discriminate may surprise you. I will keep it but I am ready for something, as I said, with more potential. With all that said the truth is that the best detector has to be in the best hands to consistently dig the best treasure. Patrick
Southwind
Well-known member
I would say that is more true for a beep-N-dig detector than a good metered detector. Someone brand new to metal detecting would have a very tough time finding goodies among trash with a beep-N-dig where as a good metered detector would be much easier.
A well seasoned hunter that is very familiar with a detector can do very well picking out treasure in the trash/cherry picking, but I think a well seasoned hunter that is very familiar with a metered detector can do even better at cherry picking.