randyalbin
Member
n/t
Find's Treasure Forums
Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!
You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.
Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.
Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.
Click here to register!
Need Support Help?
Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you
Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.
White's Vs Minelab,I'll step up to the plate
- Thread starter randyalbin
- Start date
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
If your DFX was nulling out in iron infested ground, it sounds like your discrimination was set too high. When deep hunting, I accept all targets down to -30 so I can listen to the iron and good targets side by side. A DFX user might also want to increase the filters to 6 if there is a lot iron.
I am still waiting for Tom to respond to the questions I asked him. On the dfx....for me finding coins/clad is no problem I can pick out the good from bad signals... I recheck every break in threshold that sounds promising.... But as most know my major complaint is depth... I hate to say this...but for me I believe my old White's coinmaster 6000 went deeper then what I am getting out of the dfx! I am not ready to give up on the dfx...starting to think it needs a tune up...but that can wait till spring...would like to get a few more hunts in with new stock coil... The weather here has already turned for the worst.... I remember last year hunting from Dec 9th all the way to January 25th...without letting the weather play a roll...this year the ground seems to be freezing up alot quicker....
dewcon4414
Well-known member
Another way to affect decomposed iron is corrolate and set hot rock to 10. Setting hot rock to 10 ignors iron and gives a better chance of getting a signal of a target next to iron. Also you could reduce auto trac or turn it off. Turning it off keeps it from tracking into the iron. Make sure you have track inhibit ON so it wont track when near a target. Check the depth of those targets being nulled if they read iron at less than 6 inches its iron. What can you do about iron... nothing, if its discriminated the coil reduces sensitivity and that doesnt matter what machine you are using.
I have been researching different detectors and received alot of feedback both on these and different forums and also a ton in private messages because some members did not want to cause problems... What I found is all the major detectors...have positive and negative things about them. But if i was going to buy a second detector (plan on keeping dfx also)... at this point would probably pick an se...than an ex-2... I would like to see some steady deeper signals still... hope this answers your question...
randyalbin
Member
n/t
randyalbin
Member
n/t
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
I have had several whites IDX, MXT and a brief time a DFX. The IDX was probably the best overall for me. I have some of my best finds with it. I then switched to minelab (EX II) and really really likes it except for the weight. I got very good with it then bought the SE when it came out. The SE is worth the extra $$ in my opinion. Better overall detector.
Then when the F75 came out I just had to try it out. After 4-5 hour long hunts I was convinced it was by far the best I had ever used. The depth (or more) of the minelabs and the weight of the whites. The seperation is allot better than the SE even with the 8" coil and considerably better that the whites. I really dont see the need for a smaller coil. I love the stock one. Maybe some day if a DD small coil comes out I will buy one..... who knows.
After a few months with the F75 I sold my SE. I cant justify having a $1000 unused detector sitting in the closet and it was really hard to sell to the wife either. haha
Do yourself a favor and get your hands on a F75 to try out before u buy a new detector. It prolly wont take u long to see the advantages of the F75. Its one BAD MO FO.....haha
Then when the F75 came out I just had to try it out. After 4-5 hour long hunts I was convinced it was by far the best I had ever used. The depth (or more) of the minelabs and the weight of the whites. The seperation is allot better than the SE even with the 8" coil and considerably better that the whites. I really dont see the need for a smaller coil. I love the stock one. Maybe some day if a DD small coil comes out I will buy one..... who knows.
After a few months with the F75 I sold my SE. I cant justify having a $1000 unused detector sitting in the closet and it was really hard to sell to the wife either. haha
Do yourself a favor and get your hands on a F75 to try out before u buy a new detector. It prolly wont take u long to see the advantages of the F75. Its one BAD MO FO.....haha
After I have read some of these comments I have to tell about MY SOIL,MY SOIL
Tom Said:
The answer is easy. Ground balancing in bad soil areas, or with any other type of interference is downfall of the Whites detectors!!!
This I DONT understand?????Whites are the only detector that makes a 4 filter machine.
I can tell you that I have used the DFX and Explorers but in my ground only a 4 filter will work some places.....
There is a old church that we took sovereigns and explorers and other detectors and in this ground ...You can lay a dime on the ground and Every 2 filter will show the coin as iron EXCEPT a 4 filter...This is just a fact we live with.......The Explorers and CZ5s as well as the sovereigns show the dime as iron,Alot of guys has tried to prove this wrong but never has.To me the Explorers and sovereigns seem to have the ground assigned and they just go dead over some of my soil....If you move the coil at all it will lose the threshold.In one area a guy with a bounty hunter was digging IH pennys at 3".I had a Explorer and anther guy had a sovereign and they would not detect ANY of the pennys at 3"..They would null out.If I remember right I used iron mask no discrimination and the coins would show iron...Go Figure.....
Now Here is what I wonder?If the Sovereign is 17 freq and Explorer 28 freq What makes the detector know what freq. is the best?
Some people think that the explorer will KNOW which freq. to use????That not right...What I have read is it picks 2 or 3 freq that it detects the coin with..Well suppose its a ring and the Explorer uses a lower 3khz?that would not be as good as if it would use a higher freq.....
I read on a forum a letter from Whites that question was asked why not go with 30 freq. or 40,50 so on.....
If I remember they took the idea of mult freq and made it better...In other words they said the Minelab don't know what you are looking for if gold or copper and it might pick a freq. that isn't as deep as if the operator controlled the freq.?
Think about it......Why didn't they use more freq.?Because its not necessary.
I also thought Whites bought the right to use the multi-freq.
I have always liked the idea that Whites will buy a idea and make it better.IN my ground I have found targets that a Whites will ID that the Explorers wont but never the other way around..
Now in my front yard is not bad ground and my wife found a IH penny on top of the ground one day in our garden....I got out different detectors and The Whites IDX found a dime at 10" that no other detector could ID as well..This surprised me...I went all over the yard all year and found more old coins and compared different detectors,I have to say the Explorer did the worse ID than most the others....
So what I am saying is You don't know what your detector will do unless you have tried it in all soil in the US.
I would be using Explorers as well as lots of other guys around here if they worked better but they don't...Just a fact in my ground.Again!! This is my ground and I am not saying that somewhere else the Whites are better than Explorers,,,,I don't know,,,Just know my ground.
Paul WV.
Tom Said:
The answer is easy. Ground balancing in bad soil areas, or with any other type of interference is downfall of the Whites detectors!!!
This I DONT understand?????Whites are the only detector that makes a 4 filter machine.
I can tell you that I have used the DFX and Explorers but in my ground only a 4 filter will work some places.....
There is a old church that we took sovereigns and explorers and other detectors and in this ground ...You can lay a dime on the ground and Every 2 filter will show the coin as iron EXCEPT a 4 filter...This is just a fact we live with.......The Explorers and CZ5s as well as the sovereigns show the dime as iron,Alot of guys has tried to prove this wrong but never has.To me the Explorers and sovereigns seem to have the ground assigned and they just go dead over some of my soil....If you move the coil at all it will lose the threshold.In one area a guy with a bounty hunter was digging IH pennys at 3".I had a Explorer and anther guy had a sovereign and they would not detect ANY of the pennys at 3"..They would null out.If I remember right I used iron mask no discrimination and the coins would show iron...Go Figure.....
Now Here is what I wonder?If the Sovereign is 17 freq and Explorer 28 freq What makes the detector know what freq. is the best?
Some people think that the explorer will KNOW which freq. to use????That not right...What I have read is it picks 2 or 3 freq that it detects the coin with..Well suppose its a ring and the Explorer uses a lower 3khz?that would not be as good as if it would use a higher freq.....
I read on a forum a letter from Whites that question was asked why not go with 30 freq. or 40,50 so on.....
If I remember they took the idea of mult freq and made it better...In other words they said the Minelab don't know what you are looking for if gold or copper and it might pick a freq. that isn't as deep as if the operator controlled the freq.?
Think about it......Why didn't they use more freq.?Because its not necessary.
I also thought Whites bought the right to use the multi-freq.
I have always liked the idea that Whites will buy a idea and make it better.IN my ground I have found targets that a Whites will ID that the Explorers wont but never the other way around..
Now in my front yard is not bad ground and my wife found a IH penny on top of the ground one day in our garden....I got out different detectors and The Whites IDX found a dime at 10" that no other detector could ID as well..This surprised me...I went all over the yard all year and found more old coins and compared different detectors,I have to say the Explorer did the worse ID than most the others....
So what I am saying is You don't know what your detector will do unless you have tried it in all soil in the US.
I would be using Explorers as well as lots of other guys around here if they worked better but they don't...Just a fact in my ground.Again!! This is my ground and I am not saying that somewhere else the Whites are better than Explorers,,,,I don't know,,,Just know my ground.
Paul WV.
Big Boys Hobbies
Well-known member
n/t
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
For what it is worth PaulWv............the DFX is adjustable from 2 to 6 filters. If there were one best detector, it would be the only one on the market. Different strokes for different folks. 
Hi Gregg
As you know I ran the F75 and the T2 together for some time. Both are a development from the MXT and both are noisy like the MXT if used to the maximum. The MXT is well built and takes the knocks, the other two are a little fragile.
Mineralised ground is better tackled by four filters than two which gives an advantage on this type of ground to machines like the XLT or DFX if its used in the higher filter modes. They both have ground tracking which causes as many problems as it solves. At least the tracking is more sophisticated than many with the option to restrict tracking or even turn it off. These options are needed to prevent the machine regarding nearby items as ground minerals and tracking to them rather than the actual ground.
The main advantage of Minelabs multifrequency over most single frequency machines is for wet sand use. The DFX provides twin frequencies which enable easy beach use. The DFX is an old Minelab three frequency design with one frequency dropped. The Whites offers more options of adjustable filters etc but strip out the many adjustments and the basic machine doesn't match the depth of say the Sovereign which comes in a much easier to use package.
Much is made of the question of Minelab multi v Whites two frequency. You have to consider that in many circumstances single frequency can be deeper and even where depths match a single frequency machine can cover more ground in the same time.
Add to the mix that most are discussing motion machines which provided ease of use but motion has its own problems. A non motion machine does not require such attention to sweep speed as the motion. Sweep a four filter detector which requires a fast sweep and you cover more ground than the two and tons more than the multifrequency. On the other hand the optimum sweep speed is only obtained in the middle section of the sweep as you have to slow the sweep at each end for the coils change of direction.
Use a non motion detector and you can cover ground at a good speed or slow down in high rubbish areas. A further advantage is no coil movement needed so your not masking out a good target with a bad one as the coil can be sat on the ground directly over the target. With an iffy signal a hole can be dug thats the size of the coil and it can be dropped straight down. Pick the right model and you can have iron see through on four or five nails, other models will not lose any performance where a coin is next to an iron or rubbish target ie no null from the bad overwhelming the good. For anomaly free rejection of iron you could pick up an old off-resonance machine, possibly the best discrimination system ever, but then it lacked in depth.
Guess I'm saying that the old classics, new motion or twin/multifrequency all have pluses and drawbacks but new doesn't mean better and price doesn't guarantee the best machine for your specific need /soil conditions. We still haven't got a good go anywhere, do anything detector and whats best for one could be a bad choice for another.
One advantage of joining a club is to see what performs best in your area.
As you know I ran the F75 and the T2 together for some time. Both are a development from the MXT and both are noisy like the MXT if used to the maximum. The MXT is well built and takes the knocks, the other two are a little fragile.
Mineralised ground is better tackled by four filters than two which gives an advantage on this type of ground to machines like the XLT or DFX if its used in the higher filter modes. They both have ground tracking which causes as many problems as it solves. At least the tracking is more sophisticated than many with the option to restrict tracking or even turn it off. These options are needed to prevent the machine regarding nearby items as ground minerals and tracking to them rather than the actual ground.
The main advantage of Minelabs multifrequency over most single frequency machines is for wet sand use. The DFX provides twin frequencies which enable easy beach use. The DFX is an old Minelab three frequency design with one frequency dropped. The Whites offers more options of adjustable filters etc but strip out the many adjustments and the basic machine doesn't match the depth of say the Sovereign which comes in a much easier to use package.
Much is made of the question of Minelab multi v Whites two frequency. You have to consider that in many circumstances single frequency can be deeper and even where depths match a single frequency machine can cover more ground in the same time.
Add to the mix that most are discussing motion machines which provided ease of use but motion has its own problems. A non motion machine does not require such attention to sweep speed as the motion. Sweep a four filter detector which requires a fast sweep and you cover more ground than the two and tons more than the multifrequency. On the other hand the optimum sweep speed is only obtained in the middle section of the sweep as you have to slow the sweep at each end for the coils change of direction.
Use a non motion detector and you can cover ground at a good speed or slow down in high rubbish areas. A further advantage is no coil movement needed so your not masking out a good target with a bad one as the coil can be sat on the ground directly over the target. With an iffy signal a hole can be dug thats the size of the coil and it can be dropped straight down. Pick the right model and you can have iron see through on four or five nails, other models will not lose any performance where a coin is next to an iron or rubbish target ie no null from the bad overwhelming the good. For anomaly free rejection of iron you could pick up an old off-resonance machine, possibly the best discrimination system ever, but then it lacked in depth.
Guess I'm saying that the old classics, new motion or twin/multifrequency all have pluses and drawbacks but new doesn't mean better and price doesn't guarantee the best machine for your specific need /soil conditions. We still haven't got a good go anywhere, do anything detector and whats best for one could be a bad choice for another.
One advantage of joining a club is to see what performs best in your area.
jeff & Maria
Active member
I can only say that I have found things in an area that I previously hunted with the XLT using the Explorer, and I have found things in an area that I previously hunted with the Explorer using the XLT. There are just too many variables with detecting to hit an area with just one machine. That's why I use both. That's why a new guy finds something in an area pounded by someone else with a different brand. Like they say, why buy one when you can have two at twice the price!
I have run DC phase on...and checked my soil conditions in several areas... it seems my readings are a constant in all areas... -88 to -94. I thought this meant the ground is highly mineralized and after reading thru quite a few topics on ground mineralization...seems Jeff Foster mentions the readings do show the presence of minerals/iron...but the high readings can also be caused by moisture... My point I always seem to get an extra inch when the ground is wet after a good rain... with readings like this should I be using the 6 x 10? Also wondering if using the 6 x 10 would give me an advantage depth wise in this type of soil... Seems from what I have read the 6 x 10...is not as deep as the stock coil... But if it gives me an edge with med to high mineralization...would it not then pssibly give me that elusive 7-8 inch reading I need to get down for some of the deeper readings?
dewcon4414
Well-known member
Like Larry said the DFX is a 6 filter machine and according to Whites most machines that claim to be 6 filter use 2 of those filters on visual indication whites doesnt. The sweep speed also acts as a filter as does the VDI sensitivity. Whites makes the statement that the Dual freq is more effective in soil with mositure where you are dealing with salt. Otherwise they seem to recommend either of the single freq. be used. What i have found since trying to hunt here in AZ this year for Raw Gold with the DFX, you have to do a LOT of adjustments. I think we need to relook the auto trac speed as we hunt.
randyalbin
Member
n/t
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
I hunted many years with the 6X10 DD in my ground, worked better than the stock. My new favorite general hunting coil is the Excellerator 10"DD. More depth than the 6X10DD and still cuts through the mineralization. Kellyco does not list it on their site, so call JW and ask for it. He has it in stock, the last I knew. I hunt with Autotrac - OFF in my ground, better stability. If you call JW, tell him I sent you and ask for special pricing. It doesn't hurt to ask
You are checking the phase with the coil not moving and flat on the ground or just switching on and leaving it ?
Wet ground doesn't help performance but damp does. Best is damp where the top few inches have dried out.
Ellipticals are better on mineralised soil as you know but on my ground the concentric was always deeper unless there was bad mineralisation and lots of junk around.
It still worries me that on bad ground I can get an easy eight inches from the XLT and ten if really tweaked and recovery speed has been lowered.
What filters are you using? I would use four and then adjust from that point.
Wet ground doesn't help performance but damp does. Best is damp where the top few inches have dried out.
Ellipticals are better on mineralised soil as you know but on my ground the concentric was always deeper unless there was bad mineralisation and lots of junk around.
It still worries me that on bad ground I can get an easy eight inches from the XLT and ten if really tweaked and recovery speed has been lowered.
What filters are you using? I would use four and then adjust from that point.