#1Leatherneck
Well-known member
Vito,
Thank you for welcoming Jacques! Is there a way to translate another language here! I appreciate seeing others that like the White's metal detector.
Leatherneck
Semper fidelis
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White's Electronics Forum?
- Thread starter #1Leatherneck
- Start date
Thank you for welcoming Jacques! Is there a way to translate another language here! I appreciate seeing others that like the White's metal detector.
Leatherneck
Semper fidelis
vito
Well-known member
Hello #1Leatherneck,
I'm using copy / paste in google translate to the foreign languages. In google translate I choose [select language automatically] and in most cases that works. In the last decade google made a big step up into translations.
Knowing the board language is English, I always try to be track on it is a sign of courtesy.
All the Best to you.
#1Leatherneck
Well-known member
September 9, 2020 I started this White's Electronics Forum. And with 2k views and 22 post I feel blessed! I can see it has helped many with questions as I had hoped it would.
I have met perhaps the best of all the members here. Although as I stated I started this forum; however, it belongs to all my fellow members. Of utmost importance I do not recall any
derogatory remark intended towards another member. And I wanted to commend everyone. Especially as it appears this is the only available information for the White's metal detectors?
Thanks to Find's Treasure Forums for allowing this to continue.
Leatherneck,
Semper fidelis
I have met perhaps the best of all the members here. Although as I stated I started this forum; however, it belongs to all my fellow members. Of utmost importance I do not recall any
derogatory remark intended towards another member. And I wanted to commend everyone. Especially as it appears this is the only available information for the White's metal detectors?
Thanks to Find's Treasure Forums for allowing this to continue.
Leatherneck,
Semper fidelis
Dave~UT
Active member
I started out in the '80s with a Whites Silver Eagle. Then I purchased a Spectrum XLT (still have) after which I upgraded to the E-Series XLT. I love this machine, I understand it and see no need to buy anything else. Thanks to Monte I have learned a lot over the years about the XLT from reading his posts and running some of his programs. The other day I saw the new Manticore for $1,599.00. Sorry not for me. I'm 69 and will swing my Whites until I can't.
vito
Well-known member
Yes, Monte is a deserving man and helped a lot of us to understand the nature of metal detecting. And I'm with you, Dave, swinging a White's until I can't or the White's will rest.
Good Luck & Have Fun
vito
Well-known member
Hello liondogs.
I'll try my best for better understanding...
FTF IS Find's Treasure Forums (this site at all) and yes, they can be contacted [Contact us]. You may also find the link if you scroll down the site at right hand, first link of the row.
When supporting stopped the White's board files vanished from the old place but were available through the board by a different link. At that time I started to download files of interest about the MXT to my hard-disc.
Some time after that this Forum (FTF) changed the hosting servers AND the forum's software and with that all this "outsourced data" was accidently lost. All this happened some yrs ago, I think pre Corona.
But there are so many knowledgeable and helpful people around here, just start to ask and to write about White's and make this White's forum great again.
(hope this helps)
Good Luck & Have Fun
Dave~UT
Active member
Here's a link to the Finds Treasure Forums found in the Internet Archive known as the Wayback Machine. A lot of threads have been saved, but not all threads have content. The bots that scan web pages didn't always record the data. At the top of the page is the graph of years recorded. You can pick any time in any year. It will bring up a calendar with highlighted dates. Click on a date and time.
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011012838/http://www.findmall.com/
https://web.archive.org/web/20071011012838/http://www.findmall.com/
#1Leatherneck
Well-known member
Dave-UT done a very good job! Most likely you have some time in this! I and many others will find a lot of information in your post. Thanks!
I have looked at the link Dave-UT referenced. Some good links are still intact. I was thinking that I would copy and post some of the older information so it becomes part of the "new whites form" history. Below is a sample of a post from Rob (IL) on V31 sensitivity. The post runs longer than 10000 characters so I had to cut it off. But it is a sample of what is available and if the post runs over the max characters I can post as part 1 and part 2. If people find this useful and it does not violate any forum rules I will start digging through and reposting interesting information from the way back site.
Sensitivity Section
The sensitivity section contains settings to adjust the response of the detector to weak signals and noise conditions.
The receive gain, RX gain, and setting control the signal gain for the amplifier connected to the loop. This input stage amplifier needs to be adjusted for optimal operation with the detector's hardware.
The transmit boost setting provides additional power to the loop or extra depth but will discharge the battery faster.
Discrimination sensitivity setting controls the response of the detector for discrimination. A low sensitivity value requires a large signal to trigger a target response and higher sensitivity settings respond to weaker signals. V.D.I. readings are interpreted only when the target signal goes over this sensitivity level. The discriminate audio uses this setting to know when a target is registering.
The all-metal sensitivity setting controls the detector's audio response for pinpoint and all metal search modes.
In areas where the ground is changing quickly or an area with a lot of EMI noise, it may be desirable to lower the setting so the audio isn't responding to these background changes. But, the higher the setting the more the detector will respond to the deeper targets.
About Sensitivity
Setting this sensitivity is critical for obtaining the best results. There are four sensitivity settings associated with the sensitivity of the detector: RX gain, TX boost, Discrimination Sensitivity, and All Metal sensitivity. The extremes of the settings were designed to be beyond reasonable to make a detector responsive to a large range of expected and unexpected environments, using maximum or minimum values should be viewed with some skepticism.
RX gain
The received signals can be very small and need to be amplified to be seen by the signal processing software. If the ground is very weak, the detector will be able to tolerate larger gains, whereas if the ground is very strong, the ground signal may overwhelm the loop at the higher gains. These settings need to be adjusted based on the input signals to permit as much signal as possible without overloading the loop. External EMI noise may also play a factor in the setting. If there is significant EMI noise that causes the input signals to overload even though the ground is weak, the gain will need to be lowered. The rule of thumb, which may not hold true in all conditions, is that another inch of depth will be obtained when the gain is doubled. This means that increasing the game from 14 to 15 will not improve depth much at all whereas increasing the gain from 2 to 4 should gain another inch in depth. I would back off to no more than 30-40%.
TX boost
TX boost increases the power of the loop transmitter. In ideal conditions where the ground is mild enough to run RX gain at 15 and there are few targets the use of TX boost may increase the depth response of the detector up to 1 inch. If there is RF noise limiting the RX gain that can be run, the TX boost can be turned on to achieve more depth at a lower RX gain setting. In some conditions, such as very strong ground, TX boost may be unusable or at least unfeasible as increasing RX gain will give the same results and will not decrease the battery life as quickly.
Discrimination Sensitivity
Discrimination sensitivity is a user-adjustable control to remove audio responses to the noise from the system. This control is only used in the search modes. The smaller the noise signals and ground fluctuations the higher the sensitivity settings can be. This control sets a threshold that indicates when to trigger on the target. If the input signal is larger than the threshold, then the process to identify and report the target is triggered. The higher the sensitivity is set, the deeper the targets that can be seen. If it is set too high the noise will also trigger as targets and make identifying real targets much more difficult.
In this channel, the Discrimination Sensitivity setting deter-mines a threshold level above which you will hear target responses.
The following graph shows the relationship between the threshold level and the detection signal. Only detection signals that exceed the threshold level (shaded in gray) will become audible target signals. Otherwise, you will only hear the threshold tone.
Increasing the Discrimination Sensitivity setting lowers the threshold, making V3I more sensitive to weak target signals.
All metal sensitivity
All metal sensitivity is only used in all metal modes, pinpoint, all metal search audio, or mixed modes. As the sensitivity is increased, changes in the all metal information will generate a louder response. If there is a lot of external noise in the area, it might be desirable to lower the sensitivity settings so the audio is not responding to the noise, but to targets instead. The highest setting that will operate smooth, stable, and predictably, and provides good pinpoint results, is recommended. Reduced levels typically pinpoint better, however, do not detect or pinpoint as deep.
Sensitivity Probe,
This function is activated by selecting the Sensitivity Live Control and pressing ZOOM. All the sensitivity options are displayed on the left of the display. On the right side of the screen are two live “signal quality “numbers. The “Signal” number tells you what percent of the total signal range is currently being received; that is, how much “residual” signal is being seen. Ideally, if you hold the loop in the air away from metal targets, this number should be zero. However, it is impossible to make a perfect loop null so this number is usually at least a few percent.
Ground mineralization also creates a residual signal, so as you lower the loop to the ground you may see an increase in the Signal percentage. In most cases you should adjust the Rx Gain to maintain a residual Signal of no more than 30-40%. V3I will overload at 60%, so it’s still possible that large shallow targets will cause an overload. If this shows 100%, the detector will be overloaded.
Residual signals can either be loop null, ground signal, or both. If ground + null are the cause, then this doesn't take away from sensitivity. Instead, it takes away from large/shallow target response, manifested in a signal overload. None of these are losses, but rather they reduce the available dynamic range. The lower this % number the stronger the signal will come through or be received.
Null is the efficiency of the coil. A perfect null would equal zero noise. While the Spectra coils are "deep nulled", there is still a bit of noise left from a less than perfect null. Some signal could be from outside sources such as EMI and Ground Noise. If the Null Noise was out of phase with the EMI, the signals could conceivably cancel, resulting in a lower "residual signal". If they were in phase, the "residual signal" would be higher due to the additive nature of the signals. The "residual signal" is what remained after the null noise, EMI, and other signals all mixed in the harmonic coil. Another way of looking at the signal% is a percentage of when the detector overloads. This isn't on any specific frequency - the reading is on the incoming signal before it has been separated into the 3 frequencies. The goal is to keep the ground signal under 30 - 40% so that you still get depth and can still see shallow targets without overload.
The Noise% measures the External Interference, 0% or a low number indicates very little external noise and low ground interference, thus allowing for using a higher preamp RX Gain. The Noise number represents the amount of spurious noise; that is, noise that comes and goes, as opposed to the residual signal which is continuous. This is the noise that is often audible, especially in Pinpoint mode, as chatter. A high noise level (more than a few percent) should persuade you to consider different frequency offset, or to try the 5Hz Band pass filter.
A high Noise% of 50 or more would require you to try:
1) Freq Offset,
2) Decrease RXG,
3) Salt Mode,
4) 22.5 KHz Single frequency,
5) Filter change,
6) Smaller coil.
If your noise is Ground noise you can try;
1) Filter change,
2) Decrease RXG,
3) Salt Soil
4) Salt Mode,
5) Increase BCR,
6) Smaller coil.
Sensitivity Section
The sensitivity section contains settings to adjust the response of the detector to weak signals and noise conditions.
The receive gain, RX gain, and setting control the signal gain for the amplifier connected to the loop. This input stage amplifier needs to be adjusted for optimal operation with the detector's hardware.
The transmit boost setting provides additional power to the loop or extra depth but will discharge the battery faster.
Discrimination sensitivity setting controls the response of the detector for discrimination. A low sensitivity value requires a large signal to trigger a target response and higher sensitivity settings respond to weaker signals. V.D.I. readings are interpreted only when the target signal goes over this sensitivity level. The discriminate audio uses this setting to know when a target is registering.
The all-metal sensitivity setting controls the detector's audio response for pinpoint and all metal search modes.
In areas where the ground is changing quickly or an area with a lot of EMI noise, it may be desirable to lower the setting so the audio isn't responding to these background changes. But, the higher the setting the more the detector will respond to the deeper targets.
About Sensitivity
Setting this sensitivity is critical for obtaining the best results. There are four sensitivity settings associated with the sensitivity of the detector: RX gain, TX boost, Discrimination Sensitivity, and All Metal sensitivity. The extremes of the settings were designed to be beyond reasonable to make a detector responsive to a large range of expected and unexpected environments, using maximum or minimum values should be viewed with some skepticism.
RX gain
The received signals can be very small and need to be amplified to be seen by the signal processing software. If the ground is very weak, the detector will be able to tolerate larger gains, whereas if the ground is very strong, the ground signal may overwhelm the loop at the higher gains. These settings need to be adjusted based on the input signals to permit as much signal as possible without overloading the loop. External EMI noise may also play a factor in the setting. If there is significant EMI noise that causes the input signals to overload even though the ground is weak, the gain will need to be lowered. The rule of thumb, which may not hold true in all conditions, is that another inch of depth will be obtained when the gain is doubled. This means that increasing the game from 14 to 15 will not improve depth much at all whereas increasing the gain from 2 to 4 should gain another inch in depth. I would back off to no more than 30-40%.
TX boost
TX boost increases the power of the loop transmitter. In ideal conditions where the ground is mild enough to run RX gain at 15 and there are few targets the use of TX boost may increase the depth response of the detector up to 1 inch. If there is RF noise limiting the RX gain that can be run, the TX boost can be turned on to achieve more depth at a lower RX gain setting. In some conditions, such as very strong ground, TX boost may be unusable or at least unfeasible as increasing RX gain will give the same results and will not decrease the battery life as quickly.
Discrimination Sensitivity
Discrimination sensitivity is a user-adjustable control to remove audio responses to the noise from the system. This control is only used in the search modes. The smaller the noise signals and ground fluctuations the higher the sensitivity settings can be. This control sets a threshold that indicates when to trigger on the target. If the input signal is larger than the threshold, then the process to identify and report the target is triggered. The higher the sensitivity is set, the deeper the targets that can be seen. If it is set too high the noise will also trigger as targets and make identifying real targets much more difficult.
In this channel, the Discrimination Sensitivity setting deter-mines a threshold level above which you will hear target responses.
The following graph shows the relationship between the threshold level and the detection signal. Only detection signals that exceed the threshold level (shaded in gray) will become audible target signals. Otherwise, you will only hear the threshold tone.
Increasing the Discrimination Sensitivity setting lowers the threshold, making V3I more sensitive to weak target signals.
All metal sensitivity
All metal sensitivity is only used in all metal modes, pinpoint, all metal search audio, or mixed modes. As the sensitivity is increased, changes in the all metal information will generate a louder response. If there is a lot of external noise in the area, it might be desirable to lower the sensitivity settings so the audio is not responding to the noise, but to targets instead. The highest setting that will operate smooth, stable, and predictably, and provides good pinpoint results, is recommended. Reduced levels typically pinpoint better, however, do not detect or pinpoint as deep.
Sensitivity Probe,
This function is activated by selecting the Sensitivity Live Control and pressing ZOOM. All the sensitivity options are displayed on the left of the display. On the right side of the screen are two live “signal quality “numbers. The “Signal” number tells you what percent of the total signal range is currently being received; that is, how much “residual” signal is being seen. Ideally, if you hold the loop in the air away from metal targets, this number should be zero. However, it is impossible to make a perfect loop null so this number is usually at least a few percent.
Ground mineralization also creates a residual signal, so as you lower the loop to the ground you may see an increase in the Signal percentage. In most cases you should adjust the Rx Gain to maintain a residual Signal of no more than 30-40%. V3I will overload at 60%, so it’s still possible that large shallow targets will cause an overload. If this shows 100%, the detector will be overloaded.
Residual signals can either be loop null, ground signal, or both. If ground + null are the cause, then this doesn't take away from sensitivity. Instead, it takes away from large/shallow target response, manifested in a signal overload. None of these are losses, but rather they reduce the available dynamic range. The lower this % number the stronger the signal will come through or be received.
Null is the efficiency of the coil. A perfect null would equal zero noise. While the Spectra coils are "deep nulled", there is still a bit of noise left from a less than perfect null. Some signal could be from outside sources such as EMI and Ground Noise. If the Null Noise was out of phase with the EMI, the signals could conceivably cancel, resulting in a lower "residual signal". If they were in phase, the "residual signal" would be higher due to the additive nature of the signals. The "residual signal" is what remained after the null noise, EMI, and other signals all mixed in the harmonic coil. Another way of looking at the signal% is a percentage of when the detector overloads. This isn't on any specific frequency - the reading is on the incoming signal before it has been separated into the 3 frequencies. The goal is to keep the ground signal under 30 - 40% so that you still get depth and can still see shallow targets without overload.
The Noise% measures the External Interference, 0% or a low number indicates very little external noise and low ground interference, thus allowing for using a higher preamp RX Gain. The Noise number represents the amount of spurious noise; that is, noise that comes and goes, as opposed to the residual signal which is continuous. This is the noise that is often audible, especially in Pinpoint mode, as chatter. A high noise level (more than a few percent) should persuade you to consider different frequency offset, or to try the 5Hz Band pass filter.
A high Noise% of 50 or more would require you to try:
1) Freq Offset,
2) Decrease RXG,
3) Salt Mode,
4) 22.5 KHz Single frequency,
5) Filter change,
6) Smaller coil.
If your noise is Ground noise you can try;
1) Filter change,
2) Decrease RXG,
3) Salt Soil
4) Salt Mode,
5) Increase BCR,
6) Smaller coil.