ok folks i wanna give tesoro a try AND i was plannin on getting a cibola BUT im told 4get about cibola get a vaquero. great, back 2 square 1. But here's what im lookin 4, something that preys on COINS not junk and will discr against junk better than L.A.P.D. and rodney king. so which 1 would be better of the 2. thanx
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which 1 is better?
- Thread starter redsumit
- Start date
rentasquid
New member
so neither will discriminate better than the other. The main advantage (or disadvantage to some) of the V is that it has manual ground balance, while the C has a preset gb. I like to adjust my own GB, so I would prefer the V. If those are the two that you are chosing between, get the one that gb's the way you want...manual or preset.
J. Brown
J. Brown
I decided on the Cibola because the soil in my area is so mild the manual GB of the Vaquero wouldn't be an advantage for me.
I decided that having one more knob to adjust would just be a waste of time.
Since I've had the Cibola and used it in several locations in my area I'm quite happy with my decision. I can run sensitivity all the way up in all locations and can run threshold at full throttle (supertuned) in most locations.
I suppose if the ground you're going to hunt is moderately to heavily mineralized then the Vaquero is a good way to go. If you have mild ground like I do in my area then you might like the Cibola.
I decided that having one more knob to adjust would just be a waste of time.
Since I've had the Cibola and used it in several locations in my area I'm quite happy with my decision. I can run sensitivity all the way up in all locations and can run threshold at full throttle (supertuned) in most locations.
I suppose if the ground you're going to hunt is moderately to heavily mineralized then the Vaquero is a good way to go. If you have mild ground like I do in my area then you might like the Cibola.
rentasquid
New member
n/t
Redsumit, like the others have said, it'll be mostly dependent on how "hot" your ground is.
A factory set g.b. is just not as efficient in hot ground as is a manual g.b. because of
the potentially intense variables.
IF your area's ground is mild, the Cibola will be fine. But if not, or you'll be hitting
hot ground on away trips, then the no brainer is definitely the Vaquero of the two.
And of course, this reasoning will apply to all similar detectors. Mineralization
will always call the shots in detecting. A fact of life and physics.
..W
A factory set g.b. is just not as efficient in hot ground as is a manual g.b. because of
the potentially intense variables.
IF your area's ground is mild, the Cibola will be fine. But if not, or you'll be hitting
hot ground on away trips, then the no brainer is definitely the Vaquero of the two.
And of course, this reasoning will apply to all similar detectors. Mineralization
will always call the shots in detecting. A fact of life and physics.
..W
Question: What metal detector makes/models have you used in the past?
Question: What prompted you to pick the Vaquero & Cibola to choose between?
Question: Are you buying NEW or USED?
Question: Since you said you're interested in COINS and want a model that discriminates junk the best, let me ask you what types of sites you plan to hunt, and what type of targets are your referring to as "junk?" In other words, are you hunting modern coins in modern sites and dealing with modern foil and bottle caps and pull tabs, or are you after older coins at older sites and wanting better discrimination against iron nails and similar small iron trash?
Question: Since you're planning on hunting coins is a trashy environment, have you also planned on purchasing a smaller-than-stock coil? I sure hope so!
Some generalized Answers since I don't know the answers to the above questions: ... If you plan to hunt a wide selection of sites with varying ground environments, you will be better served by a model with manual ground balance that is tied to both the All Metal and Discriminate modes. In this case, the Vaquero.
Not all search coils are a good match with a detector and those models with a factory preset GB might work fine with one coil, but with a different coil the GB might be a little too high or a little too low. Therefore, if you plan to have a versatile detector that will hunt different environments and use two or more search coils, you're going to be better off with a unit that has manual ground balance.
Iron type targets, generally nails, can be a little more difficult to reject for some models, while others will handle trash rejection a little cleaner. Also, there are a lot of very good used detectors available on various 'Classifieds' forums that can compete with the Vaquero and Cibola in many ways. It might pay to shop for a good used Tesoro model that might come with an extra coil or two. Some of the earlier models, such as the Silver Sabre II, Pantera, Bandido and Bandido II, did a very good job of handling dense iron trashed site, such as ghost towns or renovation sites. The Bandido II
Question: What prompted you to pick the Vaquero & Cibola to choose between?
Question: Are you buying NEW or USED?
Question: Since you said you're interested in COINS and want a model that discriminates junk the best, let me ask you what types of sites you plan to hunt, and what type of targets are your referring to as "junk?" In other words, are you hunting modern coins in modern sites and dealing with modern foil and bottle caps and pull tabs, or are you after older coins at older sites and wanting better discrimination against iron nails and similar small iron trash?
Question: Since you're planning on hunting coins is a trashy environment, have you also planned on purchasing a smaller-than-stock coil? I sure hope so!
Some generalized Answers since I don't know the answers to the above questions: ... If you plan to hunt a wide selection of sites with varying ground environments, you will be better served by a model with manual ground balance that is tied to both the All Metal and Discriminate modes. In this case, the Vaquero.
Not all search coils are a good match with a detector and those models with a factory preset GB might work fine with one coil, but with a different coil the GB might be a little too high or a little too low. Therefore, if you plan to have a versatile detector that will hunt different environments and use two or more search coils, you're going to be better off with a unit that has manual ground balance.
Iron type targets, generally nails, can be a little more difficult to reject for some models, while others will handle trash rejection a little cleaner. Also, there are a lot of very good used detectors available on various 'Classifieds' forums that can compete with the Vaquero and Cibola in many ways. It might pay to shop for a good used Tesoro model that might come with an extra coil or two. Some of the earlier models, such as the Silver Sabre II, Pantera, Bandido and Bandido II, did a very good job of handling dense iron trashed site, such as ghost towns or renovation sites. The Bandido II
monte, Question 1: rite now i have a minelab quattro, but something wrong w/ it, needs looked at. ive been using wifes minelab xterra 30
Question 2: ive done research for other MD's, ace250,xterra70 and others. tesoro seems 2 stand out for me because it appears each MD has certain traits for certain types of hunting.
Question 3: new
Question 4: old ghost towns high in iron content and areas that are old but currently being used. i understand there will be bottle caps n pull tabs and all that stuff. what i want is something that " sees" iron and actually disc it out. im having problems w/ a MD giving me all the signs of coins and it is actually a nail or a chunk of iron.........also it seems ash content messes with it. im looking for old coins not this clad junk, i dont even care about wheaties but ill keep them though.
Question 5: probably will in future. i have a 5 inch disk on quattro for less trash pick up, but even that doesn't seem 2 work for me lately. (like i said i need it looked at)
a note- when i use my wifes MD i find more stuff w/ it than my quattro. want something simple and not w/ all the bells n whistles but very effective in finding old coins AND i want a couple of MD"s anyways.
Question 2: ive done research for other MD's, ace250,xterra70 and others. tesoro seems 2 stand out for me because it appears each MD has certain traits for certain types of hunting.
Question 3: new
Question 4: old ghost towns high in iron content and areas that are old but currently being used. i understand there will be bottle caps n pull tabs and all that stuff. what i want is something that " sees" iron and actually disc it out. im having problems w/ a MD giving me all the signs of coins and it is actually a nail or a chunk of iron.........also it seems ash content messes with it. im looking for old coins not this clad junk, i dont even care about wheaties but ill keep them though.
Question 5: probably will in future. i have a 5 inch disk on quattro for less trash pick up, but even that doesn't seem 2 work for me lately. (like i said i need it looked at)
a note- when i use my wifes MD i find more stuff w/ it than my quattro. want something simple and not w/ all the bells n whistles but very effective in finding old coins AND i want a couple of MD"s anyways.
Wayne, glad u brought up mineralization. is there a way 2 tell just how hot the ground is in an area? also, when one says mineralization does that mean natural OR is that old junk thats been there for years and broke down or both. reason i ask is this could be an area of some research that ive overlooked. thanx
#1.. You need to get the Quattro taken care of because if it isn't working right, you'r wasting time with it.
#2.. If you wife's unit is an X-Terra 30, and if it works fine in your areas w/o falsing and such, then you must be in better ground environment than I am because they6 do not work well here. The designed-in GB is just too negative.
#3.. If, however, the X-Terra 30 works better for you than your unit, have you considered either the X-Terra 50 or X-Terra 70? These would share the same 7.5 kHz coils with your wife's unit, and have the flexibility for other frequency coils as well. In addition, they have more refined discrimination on the lower end, and ground balance so you can make sure you're getting peak performance.
#4.. I hunt city playgrounds for the quantity of coins and good jewelry when I have a few hours and can't get out of town, but I live in a good-size metro area with a lot of "flash money" potential and ample gold an silver jewelry. However, most of the time I work ghost towns, old homesteads, old fairgrounds, picnic groves, and similar gathering sites, pioneer and military encampments, etc., etc. Like you, I like to work older sites and go after older coins. Wheaties don't interest me at all unless they are a key or semi-key date, but they do alert me to possible silver coin potential, and that's what I like to go after.
Most of the sites I hunt are plagued with iron nails as the primary annoyance. Some are old picnic groves that have the early crimp-edge, pry-off bottle caps, but those can be easily dealt with using certain techniques. I do not like to use a lot of discrimination, seldom setting my rejection above iron nails, and sometimes accepting all metal target in the Disc. mode where there isn't too much litter.
For these hunts I prefer some of the older models that do well at handling iron nails, and keep an eye out for a choice-condition specimen. These include the White's Classic III SL, IDX Pro, Gold Mountain Technologies GMT-1650 or Cobra, Tesoro Compadre, Bandido, Bandido II, Silver Sabre II and then the Bandido II
#2.. If you wife's unit is an X-Terra 30, and if it works fine in your areas w/o falsing and such, then you must be in better ground environment than I am because they6 do not work well here. The designed-in GB is just too negative.
#3.. If, however, the X-Terra 30 works better for you than your unit, have you considered either the X-Terra 50 or X-Terra 70? These would share the same 7.5 kHz coils with your wife's unit, and have the flexibility for other frequency coils as well. In addition, they have more refined discrimination on the lower end, and ground balance so you can make sure you're getting peak performance.
#4.. I hunt city playgrounds for the quantity of coins and good jewelry when I have a few hours and can't get out of town, but I live in a good-size metro area with a lot of "flash money" potential and ample gold an silver jewelry. However, most of the time I work ghost towns, old homesteads, old fairgrounds, picnic groves, and similar gathering sites, pioneer and military encampments, etc., etc. Like you, I like to work older sites and go after older coins. Wheaties don't interest me at all unless they are a key or semi-key date, but they do alert me to possible silver coin potential, and that's what I like to go after.
Most of the sites I hunt are plagued with iron nails as the primary annoyance. Some are old picnic groves that have the early crimp-edge, pry-off bottle caps, but those can be easily dealt with using certain techniques. I do not like to use a lot of discrimination, seldom setting my rejection above iron nails, and sometimes accepting all metal target in the Disc. mode where there isn't too much litter.
For these hunts I prefer some of the older models that do well at handling iron nails, and keep an eye out for a choice-condition specimen. These include the White's Classic III SL, IDX Pro, Gold Mountain Technologies GMT-1650 or Cobra, Tesoro Compadre, Bandido, Bandido II, Silver Sabre II and then the Bandido II
Well, when speaking of mineralization, we're referring to the amount of Natural iron oxides in the soil,
not scattered pieces of junk metal. Some areas of the U.S. are more iron rich than others, so to
detect that iron we use an all metal mode at a more positive setting of the gb control. Then as the coil is
lowered closer to the soil, if positive sound is produced, we then adjust the gb control to "cancel" or
"neutralize" that response until the positive response is eliminated. This sets an "average" for the iron
content of the matrix (ground) we're searching. Thusly, when we then pass the coil over a piece of
metal, the response of the metal (any kind) will be to "over-ride" our matrix setting and sound off,
because of its greater density than the mineralization we've adjusted to. This innovation from the
1970's is what made it possible to find Gold in iron rich soils with a VLF and revolutionized
electronic prospecting.
So when setting the gb, we need only be sure that we gb over "clean" ground and not adjust to a
piece of metal within the matrix.
Now I should emphasize here, that the Cibola is VERY capable in most soil matrices for most types
of hunting, and the Vaquero's manual gb is mostly for searching areas of more abundant iron
minerals. Again, if your searching won't encounter these types of iron rich soils, then the more
inexpensive Cibola will perform very well for most of your needs. If, on the other hand, you intend
to search in iron rich areas of Gold nugget country, then you'd best consider a unit like the
self-adjusting Lobo Super Traq, which is designed for that but is also an excellent discriminator
for coin and jewelry hunting as well.
..W
not scattered pieces of junk metal. Some areas of the U.S. are more iron rich than others, so to
detect that iron we use an all metal mode at a more positive setting of the gb control. Then as the coil is
lowered closer to the soil, if positive sound is produced, we then adjust the gb control to "cancel" or
"neutralize" that response until the positive response is eliminated. This sets an "average" for the iron
content of the matrix (ground) we're searching. Thusly, when we then pass the coil over a piece of
metal, the response of the metal (any kind) will be to "over-ride" our matrix setting and sound off,
because of its greater density than the mineralization we've adjusted to. This innovation from the
1970's is what made it possible to find Gold in iron rich soils with a VLF and revolutionized
electronic prospecting.
So when setting the gb, we need only be sure that we gb over "clean" ground and not adjust to a
piece of metal within the matrix.
Now I should emphasize here, that the Cibola is VERY capable in most soil matrices for most types
of hunting, and the Vaquero's manual gb is mostly for searching areas of more abundant iron
minerals. Again, if your searching won't encounter these types of iron rich soils, then the more
inexpensive Cibola will perform very well for most of your needs. If, on the other hand, you intend
to search in iron rich areas of Gold nugget country, then you'd best consider a unit like the
self-adjusting Lobo Super Traq, which is designed for that but is also an excellent discriminator
for coin and jewelry hunting as well.
..W
rentasquid
New member
n/t
When I set ground balance, I normally set it a just tab bit positive rather than flat neutral or negative. From a slight threshold, this enables the audio response detection on more positive (signal) or a pull into the null region. More information on whats going on.
well 1st of all my quattro has gb but i dont have 2 set it i just hit noise cancel and it does all that, but here my question that came 2 mind when u said: So when setting the gb, we need only be sure that we gb over "clean" ground and not adjust to a piece of metal within the matrix.
what happens if i hit noise cancel when im over a tiny peice of junk iron? does this usually mean erratic MD'ing then?
what happens if i hit noise cancel when im over a tiny peice of junk iron? does this usually mean erratic MD'ing then?
Automatic Ground Balance, according to Minelab's literature.
The Noise Cancel is essentially a form of frequency shift to help eliminate nearby RF interference. This is a point that can be discussed and argued, but in short, that's the purpose it serves, to deal with outside interference.
Monte
The Noise Cancel is essentially a form of frequency shift to help eliminate nearby RF interference. This is a point that can be discussed and argued, but in short, that's the purpose it serves, to deal with outside interference.
Monte
Uncle Willy
New member
Yeah Monte that would be a pair to draw to.
Bill(OR)
Bill(OR)
Uncle Willy
New member
Is this true functioning automatic ground balance ( ground tracking ) or has it been balanced to a chunk of ferrite at the factory?
Bill(OR)
Bill(OR)
with a very open mind.
In Minelab's own product catalog they stated: "All metal detectors come with ground balance of some sort, some can be manually adjusted, some are factory pre-set, and some are true automatic. The metal detectors with automatic ground balance excel in highly mineralized soil areas, as their ability to test the ground and compensate every few seconds make them so much easier to use and more efficient."
Then, when showing various models, their Musketeer Advantage as having MANUAL Ground Balance, and the Explorer & Quattro as having AUTOMATIC GROUND BALANCE, and the Sovereign GT as having AUTOMATIC GROUND BALANCE and AUTOMATIC GROPUND TRACKING.
So, note that THEY said three types, Manual, Pre-Set (fixed) and True Automatic, then under the model listing they used the term Automatic Ground Balance separate from Automatic Ground Tracking.
Using a Sovereign you can actually listen to some auto tracking going on, but I've never heard it with an Explorer. I tend to think that they, like many other manufacturers, chose to use "Automatic Ground Balance" to refer to a fixed or factory preset GB since they separated it themselves in their literature.
That's why, in the end, give me MANUAL GROUND BALANCE and I'll know where the responsibility lies should it not be right.
Monte
In Minelab's own product catalog they stated: "All metal detectors come with ground balance of some sort, some can be manually adjusted, some are factory pre-set, and some are true automatic. The metal detectors with automatic ground balance excel in highly mineralized soil areas, as their ability to test the ground and compensate every few seconds make them so much easier to use and more efficient."
Then, when showing various models, their Musketeer Advantage as having MANUAL Ground Balance, and the Explorer & Quattro as having AUTOMATIC GROUND BALANCE, and the Sovereign GT as having AUTOMATIC GROUND BALANCE and AUTOMATIC GROPUND TRACKING.
So, note that THEY said three types, Manual, Pre-Set (fixed) and True Automatic, then under the model listing they used the term Automatic Ground Balance separate from Automatic Ground Tracking.
Using a Sovereign you can actually listen to some auto tracking going on, but I've never heard it with an Explorer. I tend to think that they, like many other manufacturers, chose to use "Automatic Ground Balance" to refer to a fixed or factory preset GB since they separated it themselves in their literature.
That's why, in the end, give me MANUAL GROUND BALANCE and I'll know where the responsibility lies should it not be right.
Monte