bearkat4160
New member
Thats what I would like also Bill....not sure how a coil would handle a changed frequency frequently...not my prob though, is Garrett to figure that one out.
Alan
Alan
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When will Garrett wise up?
- Thread starter Onus
- Start date
Just a newbies thoughts tho i have the 1500 not the 2500
Im sure it will take me a while to really learn the 1500
and when im finally if ever really good with it I hope
i wont want to change and start over .
Seems like learning one and being really good
with it is would be better than someone with a
"BETTER NEWER" unit that doesnt know
how it works
Ron
RLTW
Im sure it will take me a while to really learn the 1500
and when im finally if ever really good with it I hope
i wont want to change and start over .
Seems like learning one and being really good
with it is would be better than someone with a
"BETTER NEWER" unit that doesnt know
how it works
Ron
RLTW
SteveP(NH)
New member
There was a NOVA TV show about fractals I saw recently where they talked about one of the applications of fractal mathematics was used to design fractal antennas that works really well at broadband reception. Almost all cell phones use fractal antennas which is why none of the new ones have those little stub antennas any longer.
The TV show made me wonder whether or not one could design a fractal search coil that would be effective at broad band frequencies. But then I am no electrical engineer so this is just speculation.
The TV show made me wonder whether or not one could design a fractal search coil that would be effective at broad band frequencies. But then I am no electrical engineer so this is just speculation.
Alan Applegate
New member
Since we're talking about a few kHz, not GHz, we really can't talk about antennas in the normal sense. Next, it isn't the coil per se which doesn't lend itself to a wide frequency excursion, it is the balance between the transmit and receive coils which becomes the issue.
As noted above, the trend seems to be to offer more frequencies, fancier readouts, DSPs, etc. However, the basic premise doesn't change; you're still measuring the reactance change caused by a metallic object within the coil's field. About all you can do it throw computing power at the developed signatures, hoping to come up with a better mouse trap, and one which will sell in numbers large enough to justify the development costs.
Then we have the weight and power issues to deal with. No one wants a 10 pound detector which eats batteries. As the old adage goes, there is no free lunch.
What I'm waiting for (it'll never happen as long as we have egos to deal with) is the realization, by the masses, of what really goes on with respect to how detectors work in the first place. Then we'd all realize that effort heuristics is so much more important than what goes on inside the proverbial black box.
Alan Applegate
As noted above, the trend seems to be to offer more frequencies, fancier readouts, DSPs, etc. However, the basic premise doesn't change; you're still measuring the reactance change caused by a metallic object within the coil's field. About all you can do it throw computing power at the developed signatures, hoping to come up with a better mouse trap, and one which will sell in numbers large enough to justify the development costs.
Then we have the weight and power issues to deal with. No one wants a 10 pound detector which eats batteries. As the old adage goes, there is no free lunch.
What I'm waiting for (it'll never happen as long as we have egos to deal with) is the realization, by the masses, of what really goes on with respect to how detectors work in the first place. Then we'd all realize that effort heuristics is so much more important than what goes on inside the proverbial black box.
Alan Applegate
Garrett always did have ugly machines , green and styled like something off a 1950's sci fi movie. From what Ive always heard Garrett makes good detectors , Im happy with my ace 250 but I dont know much about the other models. Ive always avoided buying them because of how they look.
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting and I use a 2500 because it tastes so good to me. I've read this entire thread and here are my thoughts about a few things I read.
For coins and jewelry down to about 6 inches it is by far the best machine I have ever used. The response time is plenty fast if you adjust your hunting style a bit. After a thousand or so coins it becomes second nature. I use either the stock coil or 12.5 inch imaging coil for coin shooting and if there is little possibility of deep silver I prefer the stock coil.
For old silver there are probably "hotter" machines but the difference is two inches extra depth I would guess. When looking for old silver I use the 12.5 inch imaging coil and get depths of at least 8-10 inches if conditions are right. My technique when hunting for clad coins is completely different than my clad/jewelry technique and you must dig iffy signals. These iffy signals now make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I read a lot of other boards and I've read posts by many Minelab and Whites users who say the exact same thing about their machines.
The weight issue. I had this issue my first year with the machine. I must have built up the required endurance because I can swing the 2500 for 5 hours without fatigue and my elbow which used to get sore doesn't anymore. My knees give from retrieving coins long before anything else does. Would I like it better if it weighed 3 pounds? Yes.
The style of the machine. Who cares? If it looks dated and still finds tons of coins, I don't. The display is very well designed. Very intuitive and makes for fast IDing of targets. I prefer the notch system to VDI numbers. I know many of you don't.
I have written before that I, too, am waiting for a new top end Garrett. I'm sure when it comes out it will change the hobby. At least for me it will.
One final point. Look at Detroit. In my opinion, much of their best stuff came out from about 1955 to the early to mid 1970s. Maybe using this analogy my GTI 2500 would be a 1963 Corvette, a 1964 or 65 Mustang or maybe even a 1969 Pontiac GTO. Possibly dated but still a classic and a ball to "drive."
Chris
For coins and jewelry down to about 6 inches it is by far the best machine I have ever used. The response time is plenty fast if you adjust your hunting style a bit. After a thousand or so coins it becomes second nature. I use either the stock coil or 12.5 inch imaging coil for coin shooting and if there is little possibility of deep silver I prefer the stock coil.
For old silver there are probably "hotter" machines but the difference is two inches extra depth I would guess. When looking for old silver I use the 12.5 inch imaging coil and get depths of at least 8-10 inches if conditions are right. My technique when hunting for clad coins is completely different than my clad/jewelry technique and you must dig iffy signals. These iffy signals now make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I read a lot of other boards and I've read posts by many Minelab and Whites users who say the exact same thing about their machines.
The weight issue. I had this issue my first year with the machine. I must have built up the required endurance because I can swing the 2500 for 5 hours without fatigue and my elbow which used to get sore doesn't anymore. My knees give from retrieving coins long before anything else does. Would I like it better if it weighed 3 pounds? Yes.
The style of the machine. Who cares? If it looks dated and still finds tons of coins, I don't. The display is very well designed. Very intuitive and makes for fast IDing of targets. I prefer the notch system to VDI numbers. I know many of you don't.
I have written before that I, too, am waiting for a new top end Garrett. I'm sure when it comes out it will change the hobby. At least for me it will.
One final point. Look at Detroit. In my opinion, much of their best stuff came out from about 1955 to the early to mid 1970s. Maybe using this analogy my GTI 2500 would be a 1963 Corvette, a 1964 or 65 Mustang or maybe even a 1969 Pontiac GTO. Possibly dated but still a classic and a ball to "drive."
Chris
Fractal loading is just linear loading with a fancy name. It's been pretty much
proven that there is no advantage to using a generated fractal loading design
vs a random drawn design that uses the same amount of wire, and occupies
the same amount of space. I happen to know one of the prominent designers of
fractal antennas. He's up in Boston, and is a real horses behind to tell the truth.
He might have been on that TV show. I wouldn't doubt it..
A bunch of the antenna guys had a contest with him to see if he could design
a fractal antenna that would beat their "random" drawn designs.
All his proposed designs were beaten by a random design scribbled out on a
piece of paper.
He never could prove any real advantage to fractal designs vs random designs,
but that didn't stop him from convincing many companies and the gov to buy his
antennas.. Most that sign the checks wouldn't know a good antenna from a hole
in the ground..
Linear loaded antennas do have their places, but no one has ever been able to
prove that using a fractal design has any advantage over the usual linear loading
designs used in the past. And all forms of loading have losses.
The usual detector coil is very small per the wavelength being used. By their very
small nature, they will require many turns of wire to tune, and will be fairly "hi-Q",
and narrow band antennas. I don't think you could squeeze enough wire in the
fractal design to tune that low.
BTW, any symmetrical antenna can be called a fractal when it comes down to it.
Even a simple dipole. Also, I've got two cell phones. One with a stubby whip,
and one with a linear loaded antenna inside. The one with the stubby whip performs
the best of the two. :/
proven that there is no advantage to using a generated fractal loading design
vs a random drawn design that uses the same amount of wire, and occupies
the same amount of space. I happen to know one of the prominent designers of
fractal antennas. He's up in Boston, and is a real horses behind to tell the truth.
He might have been on that TV show. I wouldn't doubt it..
A bunch of the antenna guys had a contest with him to see if he could design
a fractal antenna that would beat their "random" drawn designs.
All his proposed designs were beaten by a random design scribbled out on a
piece of paper.
He never could prove any real advantage to fractal designs vs random designs,
but that didn't stop him from convincing many companies and the gov to buy his
antennas.. Most that sign the checks wouldn't know a good antenna from a hole
in the ground..
Linear loaded antennas do have their places, but no one has ever been able to
prove that using a fractal design has any advantage over the usual linear loading
designs used in the past. And all forms of loading have losses.
The usual detector coil is very small per the wavelength being used. By their very
small nature, they will require many turns of wire to tune, and will be fairly "hi-Q",
and narrow band antennas. I don't think you could squeeze enough wire in the
fractal design to tune that low.
BTW, any symmetrical antenna can be called a fractal when it comes down to it.
Even a simple dipole. Also, I've got two cell phones. One with a stubby whip,
and one with a linear loaded antenna inside. The one with the stubby whip performs
the best of the two. :/
Mick in Dubbo
New member
I agree with you Alan. There is no substitute for intimate knowledge of your machine. One day the manner in which the signal is sent into the ground will change. Someone will have a light bulb moment and the whole hobby will be turned on it's head. Till then, there will be tinkering on the edges and improvements to erganomics.
Mick Evans.
Mick Evans.
bearkat4160
New member
I think Garretts look WAY better than other machines, ALL others.
Alan Applegate
New member
It is very unfortunate that a double blind test can't be made with respect to testing metal detectors. If you could, there would be a lot of folks in utter disbelief.
It reminds me of the super hi-fi aficionados who absolutely swear that oxygen-free copper is the only way to fly. Well, guess what? There isn't any such thing as oxgen-free copper. It is nothing more than advertising hype. In every double blind test done, standard old zip cord worked as well, and in most cases better, than those ultra-high-priced cable sets.
Digressing back to metal detectors; adding great insult, are the folks who haven't a clue about how electronics work, much less what actually goes on inside the average detector. Instead, they resort to telling people to tape the coil wire to the mast, (only vertically mind you as any other way won't work), and other anecdotal remedies. The begs the question; did you learn the trade, or only the tricks?
It all just proves the old adage, you can't fix stupid!
Alan Applegate
It reminds me of the super hi-fi aficionados who absolutely swear that oxygen-free copper is the only way to fly. Well, guess what? There isn't any such thing as oxgen-free copper. It is nothing more than advertising hype. In every double blind test done, standard old zip cord worked as well, and in most cases better, than those ultra-high-priced cable sets.
Digressing back to metal detectors; adding great insult, are the folks who haven't a clue about how electronics work, much less what actually goes on inside the average detector. Instead, they resort to telling people to tape the coil wire to the mast, (only vertically mind you as any other way won't work), and other anecdotal remedies. The begs the question; did you learn the trade, or only the tricks?
It all just proves the old adage, you can't fix stupid!
Alan Applegate
Uncle Willy
New member
Yeah I'll take simple and efficient over bells, whistles, glitz, and glamour, and a few knobs for really fine tuning over the digital stuff with limited tuning. The Fisher F5 is a good example.
Bill
Bill
I have gone many directions in my attempt to find the best detector. I own the top of the line on several. Funny, when I can't get the others to quieten down, I always go back to my 2500. When hunting for coins, I go back to my 2500. When I get tired of trying to make the right adjustment, I go back to the 2500. I have found that I have wasted a lot of time trying to learn the tricks of reading the detector and when I spend more time researching sites to detect, I find a lot more old coins and jewelry. If you find the right hunting sites, all of a sudden the detector you are using becomes the best made.....Coach C.
reddirtfisher
New member
My local dealer quit selling Garretts. He said that ever since 911 Garrett has focused most of their attention on the security line of walk through and personal search devices. Maybe this is why there have been no new units introduced ? 
Uncle Willy
New member
The reason there are no units at this moment is the fact that Garrett has been devoting their time to their new military mine detector. Now that it is done and being sold around the world they can go back to concentrating on the hobby division.
BILL
BILL
Terry in PA
New member
Yep F5 good detector for the price. I have one in my arsenal !
Leslie(nova scotia)
Well-known member
From the land ofthe Bluenose......ever since I started this hobby over 35 years ago I swang a Garrett and finally feel in love with the Freedom 3 PLUS. If you followed the adds where each year the detector makers claimed better depth we would all be digging to China.
Looked at upgrading to a newer Garrett and looked but was not impressed. Have been a loyal Garrett man but let me tell I just had one halibut of a run in with super poor service which shattered my loyalty..............where has Mary P gone................at leastthen service was service. Not going into the issue as it's still not resolved.
Anyone got a working Freedom 3 plus for sale?
Looked at upgrading to a newer Garrett and looked but was not impressed. Have been a loyal Garrett man but let me tell I just had one halibut of a run in with super poor service which shattered my loyalty..............where has Mary P gone................at leastthen service was service. Not going into the issue as it's still not resolved.
Anyone got a working Freedom 3 plus for sale?
bearkat4160
New member
Yeh I like those new fishers, not too much the old stuff....all the new ones since Dave Johnson came on board over there.
Uncle Willy
New member
Mary has been retired for some time now but still beeping. Who did you deal with?
Bill
Bill