Whats your opinion on hunting Dept. Of Transportation property

[michaelnc]

These are old homesites and the grass is overgrown and the ground is undisturbed. There are no signs posted and no fences around the properties. The only reason I know these properties are owned by the Dept. of Trans. is because I looked them up on the county gis website. It just seemed a waste to not at least have the opportunity to hunt these sites since nobody from the DOT would give me an answer either way. I consider it settled and I will not hunt these sites until someonefrom the DOT gives me the go ahead.

Thanks,

Shane

 

[jackintexas]

Hey Elton: I agree with your point of view.Too many places are being closed to metal detecting now. .....Jack

 

[mudpuppy]

Maybe you should just go in there to look for the corner posts? You know, just to be sure you arn't trespassing? With the internet these days, you could probably print off some official looking document, and give yourself permission!
I hope perhaps maybe you could CHARGE the DOT to find the corners? Check with the County Surveyors office? Maybe they have some say in the matter?
Mud

 

[scubadetector]

We ALL also have different opinions and different upbringings and all have had different events happen to us so we all have different knowledge of things.

I built a house in 2002. Experts told me lots of different opinions. I decided to heck with all of them and built it acording to code and it all passed, 2400 sq ft. I could give you MANY examples. As I look back on my life, I have realized in a lot of situations there is no right or wrong. Religion and politics are TWO VERY DISTINCT examples. Some people praise the president, others hate him.

Same with metal detecting, some will not care at all about what we are doing, others will stick their nose in it and complain. Like the lake I was in. LOTS of people could have cared less. One called the police on me 6 times. I go back to that lake. It is surrounded by million dollar homes. I have permissiion now from TWO of the millionaires, even though I didn't need it. The reason she complained is that I was diving under teenage girls and I could be a pervert. Well I don't dive in the one spot anymore when there are people swimming although I was over 20' deep on a huge drop off and I could care less what is going on above me. But I dive there early in the morning like 5am till 8 with a tank and move elsewhere so I keep the peace at that location.

I will never tresspass in a marked area, and I uphold the laws everywhere. But I will not have my rights taken away by a person that wants to pretend he or she is in authority. I have even had the police called on me in a public park. We had a nice chat and I was told to have fun. NOT once have I seen the wrong side of a jail cell and I don't intend to. As I said in a previous post that went poof. I was a state police officer for 9 years.

Like giving class rings back, I do it, in fact over 30. One person on here has me beat by at least 10. Others keep them and have them melted. Who is right? Well I feel I am, they feel they are. I DON'T judge and I refuse to. We all go by how we feel. I have been on Fox 2 news in Detroit twice and in 5 different papers. One in Pensylvania and one in Georgia and I am proud of it. BUT I respect their view of finders keepers.

If we all look back in our lives, especially ones of us that have had children, (I have 6 daughters). We have probalby all been told we were doing things wrong and judged by others that have NO idea of the child or situation. They didin't matter to you then and do not now. BUT, you probably treated the person that disagreed with you with respect, and thats exactly what we need on this site. RESPECT for others points of view. With that being said I will end this post with my favorite saying.

Peace to all

 

[John 'n' W.Va]

I told them about the unusual things I found and the history that was lost. Old mine Co. tokens, store tokens, bus token and a good luck token with swastikas on it. I even found a 72 cal. Minnie from an Austrian gun that the north used. Also how the things I found tells me about the way people lived back then. I also work with the historical society.

So, what is negative?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I agree, "what is so negative?". Example: One time a newspaper person saw me detecting a downtown sidewalk project. The reporter comes over and asks what I'm finding, if he can do a story, etc..... I told him "in a week, when the project is over" (so I wouldn't elicit competitors coming out of the woodwork ) When the time came, the local paper did a story, complete with pix of seated coins, relics, etc .....

Now apply that to this situation here: "where's the negativity?" Where's the legions of people to "object" and say "well did he have the mayor's permission?" No! Nothing but positive stuff. So that's what gets me whenever these questions come up, and others jump on with "arrests" "bad image", etc.... I keep wondering how they figure that stuff?

I truly think it's the psychological trick of "portrayal". It works like this: You read a story (which naturally gets wide circulation, via FMDAC mailers, scary stories on forums, etc...) about bootings, complaints, etc... Now mind you: these might only represent .0001% of encounters. But in the mind of the skittish reader, they "portray" it on to themselves. When in fact, perhaps most of the time, no one even worries, or even NOTICES you or cares. Sure: once in awhile you WILL run in to kill-joys. So what? We're in an odd-hobby that admittedly draws the stares of the curious. But the minute we too give in and start to think of our own selves/hobby as evil, wrong, erroneous, etc.... is the day it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sure, use a little "discretion", but no, I do not think that everyone is out there to stomp on you/I the minute we leave our homes.

 

[Elton]

Those hunters mindsets will not allow anyone to get through to them ............. Some just rationalize to where they feel it's OK to "Just Do It" no matter what.

It just behooves me some "think" it is OK to hunt property because it's there.. "Maybe in some instances it would be fine".. In many cases it would not be fine.

No one will ever convince me "we have the right to detect property".without permission unless it's a Park, or a public area known to allow detecting activities....... or schools, in some areas that have not objected to detecting....................... Were all Lucky most people who chose this hobby are willing to follow the laws, and respect private property.......... and other properties where there is doubt as to it being open or closed.

 

[scubadetector]

Some detectorists will tresspass on protected land KNOWING it is off limits, just like hunters who poach out of season. Some try to ruin it for the rest of us. GREEDY and selfish they are. Just like divers in this area that dive on protected shipwrecks which is legal BUT they take things off of them which is totally illegal and make it look bad for other divers. In ALL areas of life, The bad apples make it harder for the honest ones. How about BAD cops?

 

[Bill G]

We ALL also have different opinions and different upbringings and all have had different events happen to us so we all have different knowledge of things.

I built a house in 2002. Experts told me lots of different opinions. I decided to heck with all of them and built it according to code and it all passed, 2400 sq ft. I could give you MANY examples. As I look back on my life, I have realized in a lot of situations there is no right or wrong. Religion and politics are TWO VERY DISTINCT examples. Some people praise the president, others hate him.

Same with metal detecting, some will not care at all about what we are doing, others will stick their nose in it and complain. Like the lake I was in. LOTS of people could have cared less. One called the police on me 6 times. I go back to that lake. It is surrounded by million dollar homes. I have permission now from TWO of the millionaires, even though I didn't need it. The reason she complained is that I was diving under teenage girls and I could be a pervert. Well I don't dive in the one spot anymore when there are people swimming although I was over 20' deep on a huge drop off and I could care less what is going on above me. But I dive there early in the morning like 5am till 8 with a tank and move elsewhere so I keep the peace at that location.

I will never trespass in a marked area, and I uphold the laws everywhere. But I will not have my rights taken away by a person that wants to pretend he or she is in authority. I have even had the police called on me in a public park. We had a nice chat and I was told to have fun. NOT once have I seen the wrong side of a jail cell and I don't intend to. As I said in a previous post that went poof. I was a state police officer for 9 years.

Like giving class rings back, I do it, in fact over 30. One person on here has me beat by at least 10. Others keep them and have them melted. Who is right? Well I feel I am, they feel they are. I DON'T judge and I refuse to. We all go by how we feel. I have been on Fox 2 news in Detroit twice and in 5 different papers. One in Pennsylvania and one in Georgia and I am proud of it. BUT I respect their view of finders keepers.

If we all look back in our lives, especially ones of us that have had children, (I have 6 daughters). We have probably all been told we were doing things wrong and judged by others that have NO idea of the child or situation. They didn't matter to you then and do not now. BUT, you probably treated the person that disagreed with you with respect, and that's exactly what we need on this site. RESPECT for others points of view. With that being said I will end this post with my favorite saying.

Peace to all

Very Very well said and so true, but quite often differences of opinion are not respected based on pre conceived bias or politically correct policy's forced down our throats by forums, government & state agency's, corporations, school boards and so on.

Happy & Safe Hunting,
Bill G

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well, ok then, in-lieu of this particular topic (road dept. right-of-ways, eminent domain that isn't posted, etc....), do we "know" it is "off-limits to detecting"? If not, then why is that "GREEDY and selfish" If there are no prohbitions, then wouldn't that be a non-addressed issue, either way? Ie.: it's not "off-limits", so therefore, why would it be "disallowed"?

For example: I can gaurantee you that if I walked out to my local sandbox, in my local city park, no one would ever care, notice, or say "boo". However, no matter how much I search in our city code, I will not find "an allowance" to metal detect there. Nor will I find any "prohibition". But it sounds like, in what you're saying, if I found no alllowance (eg.: a sign saying "metal detecting welcome here"?) that I am not to detect? Please help me understand this.

 

[salmonriverhotrock]

This may help you to understand Mich. Your State Trans. Department is as bound to that I attached below as we are as citizens. Our Dept. can not do some projects until the Archaeologist and who ever else do the look see and research first as here in the West, it is very rich in American Indian and Pioneer history. As a matter of fact, I know of a couple places on our Right of Way that certain Chinese built rock structure remnants had to remain untouched and in place when the new highway was put through. Even the Oregon Trail and it's alternate routes are now protected. When you read up on these Federal Acts, you may see more clearly why the hesitation on the Trans. Departments part to say yes. I know it seems ridiculous and I don't even agree with all of the laws myself but these Acts are there and have been known to be misused as Federal Metal Detecting Laws when there are none to prosecute those in our Hobby.

I'm also not surprised the Antiquities Laws and such have not come up in all of the discussion. I have found very few who metal detect are even aware of them but even for those who do know, they still may not want to admit these laws can put a damper on what they have been looking for or even finding on public lands. It could very well be these homes on the Right of Way are not 100 years or more old but the 3rd web site below may enlighten you on what is going on and the consequences, right or wrong. I for one don't have deep pocket books to fight court battles and Law Enforcement usually counts on us not being in a position to. I also live in an area of Idaho that is loaded with Federals and I can tell you first hand those in the offices but in particular those in Law Enforcement, are a very dry and serious people. And if you don't believe the story about the USFS saying you can't metal detect but only for prospecting which you must fill out a 9 page form to do (last I checked), I was also told I could not detect for anything else. Well, I went ahead and did it anyway in a camp ground and none of the USFS pickups that went by and saw me even stopped. Not trying to give the idea all of them would pass by as there will always be that one "Squirrel Patrol" that won't and will be in your business over anything. We even have a Federal BLM Ranger who takes it on himself to check fisherman for their State Fishing Licence's. Yup, I don't agree with it but by the hands of the Idiots that wrote and approved it, the Idaho Code allows him to do it.

I hope this below may help shed some possible light on your question, Robert


http://www.preservationnation.org/resources/legal-resources/understanding-preservation-law/resources/Antiquities-Act-1906.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/spf/tribalrelations/documents/policy/statutes/ARPA_PL96-95.pdf

http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-towns-of-the-east.com/metaldetectinglaws.html

 

[salmonriverhotrock]

If the others were not enough to read, try the National Historic Preservation Act of 1966. This is another Federal Act we have to watch out for in Idaho.

http://www.achp.gov/NHPA.pdf

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The links you give are on the federal and state level. And yes, given enough morphings, can/do apply to us finding old coins (over a given age anyhow, blah blah). And why stop there? There's probably scores of other angles we could come up with, that would forbid our activity, in some form or fashion. Ie.: "collecting" verbage, lost & found laws, alteration and defacement clauses (during the act of retrieving), IRS and tax laws (for potential profit), etc.....

And even though the links you site are on fed and state levels, you will often hear of city and county level answers also relying on this type archaeological/historical preservation type stuff too. Heck, I bet if you printed out that ARPA page, and took it to ANY city hall in the United States, showed it to them, and asked "can I therefore detect the city park sandbox?" They'd probably say "no".

I too, like yourself, have detected forest service campgrounds, and not had any problems. One time, however, in Stanislaus National forest, a ranger stopped me and told me I couldn't do it. After some casual conversation he said "well, you can do it, so long as you turn in any coins over 50 yrs. old". He then left, .... but ........ never told me where to turn in the old coins I found. Oh well

 

[jmaryt]

i believe giving found rings back whenever possible, to be the "smart,and RIGHT play"
if you stop,and reflect on it,you would want someone who found YOUR ring to give it back if it could be traced!
just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.

 

[jmaryt]

i agree with this in general. if ya get "pitched"
then,IF the site(s) is worth hunting,get "'written" permission
BEFORE going back!..just sayin'

(h.h.!)
j.t.