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WHAT IS A ED-180 DIS RANGE ????
- Thread starter candycane
- Start date
That is how Tesoro describes it's discremination range of detection.
The trem ED-120 dics is used to describe, for example, the properties of the Silver uMax. That means that the Silver's ability to pick up iron in the lower range of conductivity is less than an ED-180.
For example, while the Silver may be able to respond to larger iron, it may not be able to respond to a small iron object.
The term is some what miss leading, however, because they ues the term ED-180 to describe the discrimination properties of the Cibola and Vaqureo. In fact the C and the V do not have as wide of a range of acceptance as the Tejon and Lobo Super Track.
Is that as clear as mud?
HH,
The trem ED-120 dics is used to describe, for example, the properties of the Silver uMax. That means that the Silver's ability to pick up iron in the lower range of conductivity is less than an ED-180.
For example, while the Silver may be able to respond to larger iron, it may not be able to respond to a small iron object.
The term is some what miss leading, however, because they ues the term ED-180 to describe the discrimination properties of the Cibola and Vaqureo. In fact the C and the V do not have as wide of a range of acceptance as the Tejon and Lobo Super Track.
Is that as clear as mud?
HH,
This chart pretty well explains it except it's backwards. With Tesoro zero degrees is to the right and the range of acceptance runs right to left so that an ED 180 will accept the Ferrite where the ED 120 would be somewhere between a steel bottle cap and foil. I suppose actual field acceptance would be somewhat different depending the soil conditions.
I hope this helps. Also I'm never sure if the photo is going to post so if there is no chart I'll try again.
Stan
I hope this helps. Also I'm never sure if the photo is going to post so if there is no chart I'll try again.
Stan
My two favorite detectors are the Silver Sabre uMax and the Compadre.
The Compadre has a true ED-180. I can clean out a small area with it and
get all coins to about 6". I can clean it completely of any masking material.
I can go back with the Silver, which has an ED-120 and gets much more depth,
especially when not hendered by masking.
The Silver's best attribute is how it can ignore small iron without loosing any depth.
It is simply what I call a "Park Hound", although it has good relic hunting
abilities also.
Simply put, "it is fun to use".
HH,
The Compadre has a true ED-180. I can clean out a small area with it and
get all coins to about 6". I can clean it completely of any masking material.
I can go back with the Silver, which has an ED-120 and gets much more depth,
especially when not hendered by masking.
The Silver's best attribute is how it can ignore small iron without loosing any depth.
It is simply what I call a "Park Hound", although it has good relic hunting
abilities also.
Simply put, "it is fun to use".
HH,
Rmptr
In my limited knowledge I would have to say no to your first question. (does the preset ground balance allow a remaining 120 degrees of discrimination) If I understand your question right, the range of discrimination (or acceptance) is built in to the detector regardless of the method of ground balance. Now, how much effect the more positive or negative the soils are in relation to the preset ground balance and the affect it may have on the total limits of acceptance of the detector I couldn
In my limited knowledge I would have to say no to your first question. (does the preset ground balance allow a remaining 120 degrees of discrimination) If I understand your question right, the range of discrimination (or acceptance) is built in to the detector regardless of the method of ground balance. Now, how much effect the more positive or negative the soils are in relation to the preset ground balance and the affect it may have on the total limits of acceptance of the detector I couldn
The "ED" rating of Tesoroes is just a term used by Tesoro to give an approxamate description of it's acceptance capabilities of conductive materials. It pertains to the discremination circutry.
Ground balance settings, whether preset or manually adjusted, can affect the effectiveness of the reception of the generated field on a different scale. Thus affecting performance negatively if not set properly.
You can be correct to say that a Silver, with a ED-120, will not respond to small iron. Now the question is. How small?
That's hard to answer without testing. Let me try to use something a little larger to illustrate.
Let's use a 4" nail as an example. The nail is large enough that it can be picked up some times by the Silver.
Let us imagine that this lower case " l " is a nail laying on, response free, ground where the point or the head is pointing directly toward us.
Let us imagine that this minus sign " - " is a nail laying on, response free, ground where the point and the head are pointing to our right and left.
Let us imagine that this period sign " . " is a nail driven strait into the, response free, ground where the head is pointed up.
If you position the nail like this " . " and swing the coil like this <-------> you will get a single response with each sweep.
If you position the nail like this " - " and swing the coil like this <-------> you will get a double response with each sweep which may be a broken tone.
If you position the nail like this " l " and swing the coil like this <-------> you will not get a response.
If you find a piece of iron the right size the Silver will not respond to it at all.
That illustration of the different materials shows the materials to be seperated. While in fact, we all know, that those materials may over lap with their responses.
Maybe that will be clearer than mud. I hope so.
HH,
Ground balance settings, whether preset or manually adjusted, can affect the effectiveness of the reception of the generated field on a different scale. Thus affecting performance negatively if not set properly.
You can be correct to say that a Silver, with a ED-120, will not respond to small iron. Now the question is. How small?
That's hard to answer without testing. Let me try to use something a little larger to illustrate.
Let's use a 4" nail as an example. The nail is large enough that it can be picked up some times by the Silver.
Let us imagine that this lower case " l " is a nail laying on, response free, ground where the point or the head is pointing directly toward us.
Let us imagine that this minus sign " - " is a nail laying on, response free, ground where the point and the head are pointing to our right and left.
Let us imagine that this period sign " . " is a nail driven strait into the, response free, ground where the head is pointed up.
If you position the nail like this " . " and swing the coil like this <-------> you will get a single response with each sweep.
If you position the nail like this " - " and swing the coil like this <-------> you will get a double response with each sweep which may be a broken tone.
If you position the nail like this " l " and swing the coil like this <-------> you will not get a response.
If you find a piece of iron the right size the Silver will not respond to it at all.
That illustration of the different materials shows the materials to be seperated. While in fact, we all know, that those materials may over lap with their responses.
Maybe that will be clearer than mud. I hope so.
HH,
Along with tabdog's illustration below, if you sweep crosswise a nail with a detector that approximates 180 disc adjustment and you have it set so that the detector will not respond using just enough higher disc and then sweep the nail lengthwise, it will probably respond at least on each end, maybe with a quick double response. Now this can be handy if you are searching an area with lots of nails but may have the promise of something good to be had. First, it allows you to classify your signals as when you turn 90 degrees and re sweep and there is no signal, then you will know that it is a more iffy target. At this point you will have to decide if you dig or not according to your own choosing. With a 120 disc system you really don't have a choice of fine tuning to the lowest conductors with minimum disc setting and you may not be able to hunt such a site as effective but as you have already found out, all 120's and all 180's don't all act alike, something Monte has alluded to many times. Also some model detectors have a more difficult time rejecting nails totally, leaving broken signals, chirps, gasps, clicks or whatever. It seems to be a fact the more cleanly a nail is rejected then separation or masking will occur. Non-ferrous items mixed in with nail(s) tend to cause a motion detector to lower the conductive value of the non-ferrous item, at times all the way down in the iron range so the value of 180 disc is that looking for items mixed in iron, you are able to adjust to a lower setting thereby hopefully making it possible to make a find. I'll have to add though, this is all theory. There are no absolutes in metal detecting
.
.OK, we are talking about the lower end of the acceptance range.
As the size of any conductor increases, the conductivity will broaden. That causes it to over lap on the next conductor in the scale.
That is why the Silver can respond to iron larger than a coin. With the Silver, it will give a broken tone when performing the nail test
I outlined earlier. It is trying to reject the nail, but the nail is bleeding into the next higher area.
The Vaquero will perform the test more cleanly, but still doesn't totally pick up the nail in all presentations. The Compadre, Tejon,
Lobo Super Track are the land based, current offerings by Tesoro that will pick up the nail in all presentations. Those will also pick
up a nail if it is very small. The ED-120 will not.
The Silver Sabre uMax and Concestador have a threshold based all metal pinpoint mode. This makes the all metal mode of the two
more sensitive and more robust than the Silver Umax'es all metal mode. The all metal mode of the Silver Sabre uMax is non-motion,
where the Silver uMax'es all metal mode is a motion descreminator just as the dics mode is. I think the threshold based may go just
a little lower, simply because it is more robust and sensitive. But all three of these units will not work as effectively in the lower end
as an Ed-180. Even in all metal mode.
Obviously, the Silver and the Vaquero do a wonderful job of detecting. Many users may not appreciate the lower acceptance range of
the true ED-180. For most hunting task, a ED-120 or a ED-160 will perform well.
There is a difference though. When a target is being masked by iron, the ED-120 may not see the target at all. The true ED-180 will
try to pick up both conductors. The good target and the masking conductor. That will produce a different response. That also makes
it possible to determine that there is something there besides trash. You almost have to have quality headphones to aid in hearing
these differences in responses.
In other words, the true ED-180 may be better at finding masked targets.
There is another difference also. Some soil conditions are so severe that a true ED-180 has an advantage over an ED-120 or even the
Vaquero. Monte tells us about pea gravel so nasty that a Vaquero will not respond to a penny just 2" deep. But the Compadre and
Tejon will.
I'm brain drained now, so I'll close.
HH,
As the size of any conductor increases, the conductivity will broaden. That causes it to over lap on the next conductor in the scale.
That is why the Silver can respond to iron larger than a coin. With the Silver, it will give a broken tone when performing the nail test
I outlined earlier. It is trying to reject the nail, but the nail is bleeding into the next higher area.
The Vaquero will perform the test more cleanly, but still doesn't totally pick up the nail in all presentations. The Compadre, Tejon,
Lobo Super Track are the land based, current offerings by Tesoro that will pick up the nail in all presentations. Those will also pick
up a nail if it is very small. The ED-120 will not.
The Silver Sabre uMax and Concestador have a threshold based all metal pinpoint mode. This makes the all metal mode of the two
more sensitive and more robust than the Silver Umax'es all metal mode. The all metal mode of the Silver Sabre uMax is non-motion,
where the Silver uMax'es all metal mode is a motion descreminator just as the dics mode is. I think the threshold based may go just
a little lower, simply because it is more robust and sensitive. But all three of these units will not work as effectively in the lower end
as an Ed-180. Even in all metal mode.
Obviously, the Silver and the Vaquero do a wonderful job of detecting. Many users may not appreciate the lower acceptance range of
the true ED-180. For most hunting task, a ED-120 or a ED-160 will perform well.
There is a difference though. When a target is being masked by iron, the ED-120 may not see the target at all. The true ED-180 will
try to pick up both conductors. The good target and the masking conductor. That will produce a different response. That also makes
it possible to determine that there is something there besides trash. You almost have to have quality headphones to aid in hearing
these differences in responses.
In other words, the true ED-180 may be better at finding masked targets.
There is another difference also. Some soil conditions are so severe that a true ED-180 has an advantage over an ED-120 or even the
Vaquero. Monte tells us about pea gravel so nasty that a Vaquero will not respond to a penny just 2" deep. But the Compadre and
Tejon will.
I'm brain drained now, so I'll close.
HH,
If you are trying to completely remove all masking materials from a small area,
The true ED-180 will come much closer to removing all conductors.
I do that a lot in tot lots because it is so easy to recover targets.
Occasionally I will do that in natural ground, but it is more difficult
because of the hard digging.
HH,
The true ED-180 will come much closer to removing all conductors.
I do that a lot in tot lots because it is so easy to recover targets.
Occasionally I will do that in natural ground, but it is more difficult
because of the hard digging.
HH,
What I haven't learned from experience, I've learned from Monte, Skully, a few guys named Bill and your self.
I've also learned from so many people on this forum that I can not begin to name them all. I wish I could.
Being retired gives me an opportunity to spend a lot of time learning and applying what I've learned in the field.
I still think of myself as a beginner because of the short time I've been doing it, and the small amount I've learned.
HH,
I've also learned from so many people on this forum that I can not begin to name them all. I wish I could.
Being retired gives me an opportunity to spend a lot of time learning and applying what I've learned in the field.
I still think of myself as a beginner because of the short time I've been doing it, and the small amount I've learned.
HH,