Went prospecting.. got kicked out.

[UFOsAreReal]

I went prospecting on a creek here in California with my whites DFX. I was there for 10 minutes and some lady with a car full of kids starts yelling at me that I'm trespassing. This was a creek right on the side of the road and with no "No trespassing" signs anywhere. I left quickly and did not argue the point with her. Not wanting to leave her with a bad outlook upon the medal detecting hobby. But I got to wondering what the law is regarding my actions.


California River Law


The long and the short of it is....
The State owns the river below the high water mark... only if it has been declared a navigable waterway. IE if you can get a boat on it at the time of your "legal" non destructive activity.

"The federal test of navigability is not a technical test. There are no measurements of river width, depth, flow, or steepness involved. The test is simply whether the river is usable as a route by the public, even in small craft such as canoes, kayaks, and rafts. Such a river is legally navigable even if it contains big rapids, waterfalls, and other obstructions at which boaters get out, walk around, then re-enter the water."

If you can float it you probably have the legal right to be there. HAH! Try telling this to an Irate land owner. Who incidentally will not want to look at your printout of California River Law. Try telling this to a Sheriff who will " I guarantee you " NOT know the first thing about trespassing in regards to the "The Navigable Rivers Act" or the Equal Footing Doctrine.

I doubt my little creek qualifies, but the spot I was standing was right next to the road and so unintrusive, I can't help but grumble about it, thinking "if only people were more trusting these days."

On the other hand the 10 minutes that I was there, my DFX preformed Spectacularly! Set just right .. I can see how I could find nuggets if they were there to find. Yes I know the DFX is Quote " Not a nugget machine." I'm not looking for small nuggets. I'm looking for big easy to get at nuggets. I will have to go elsewhere I suppose.

I got discouraged and left... I went to the beach to give the DFX its maiden Beach/Jewelry ....... Just Awesome.... thats all I can say.... if its under the sand... the DFX can find it! The day was not a total loss.

 

[dmcmullen]

I have not gone to the beach yet with my DFX. What program(s) worked best for you when at the beach?

 

[UFOsAreReal]

The preset beach / jewelry program with the AC sensitivity turned up to 75 and the pre-amp gain on 3. That seemed to work real well.

 

[robert roy]

You did right. I'd MD somewhere else and when the woman left, go back to the creek.
R R

 

[Gadget Guru]

I bet that is the same woman who walks her dog without a bag! LOL

HH

 

[dljones54]

I think that's the same lady I heard about whose dog is so smart that he carries a bag for her. And, it sounds like she needs to use one, badly! HA!

 

[bsmg]

ufo, gold claims are very expensive. they are the personal property of those who have paid for them. when you walk onto another persons property (claim) clearly intending to remove articles of value (gold) without permission, you are stealing. if you don't find anything you are attempting to steal. i am a gold miner. i am cso of the blind squirrel mining group (BSMG). we have tens of thousands of dollars invested in equipment, including metal detectors, to locate and recover the gold that you would just walk up and steal as surley as if i came into your home and carried off your computer. had you entered one of our claims and started waving a detector around, you would not be run off. you would be held at gunpoint until a law enforcement officer came to take you and your detector away. you would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and would very likely never see that detector again. my claims are my livelyhood and i do not take kindly to those who would take it away.

there are memberships available to those who would like to hunt nuggets. google new 49ers, gpaa, or chickengold. these are claim holders who will, for a membership fee, allow you to hunt and keep what you find. other possibilities are organized hunts, such as ganes creek. i don't want to keep you from finding nuggets of gold, i simply don't want to hear that you found a nugget of lead.

 

[UFOsAreReal]

Instead of enjoying myself here at the forum.
Today I find myself offended.
I cant think of anything nice to say in reply.

 

[robert roy]

I don't think it was intended as trying to be offensive, but some people do have strong feelings.
The party concerned could probably have put his thought into a better format....then I am the last one to talk!
Don't let it bother you. I take most people's comments to my opinions with a grain of salt as I'm sure most do mine!
I thought he had some information worth considering, but it did sound like a full volly of shot across your bow.



RR

 

[bigfrank]

[quote bsmg]ufo, gold claims are very expensive. they are the personal property of those who have paid for them. when you walk onto another persons property (claim) clearly intending to remove articles of value (gold) without permission, you are stealing. if you don't find anything you are attempting to steal. i am a gold miner. i am cso of the blind squirrel mining group (BSMG). we have tens of thousands of dollars invested in equipment, including metal detectors, to locate and recover the gold that you would just walk up and steal as surley as if i came into your home and carried off your computer. had you entered one of our claims and started waving a detector around, you would not be run off. you would be held at gunpoint until a law enforcement officer came to take you and your detector away. you would be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and would very likely never see that detector again. my claims are my livelyhood and i do not take kindly to those who would take it away.

there are memberships available to those who would like to hunt nuggets. google new 49ers, gpaa, or chickengold. these are claim holders who will, for a membership fee, allow you to hunt and keep what you find. other possibilities are organized hunts, such as ganes creek. i don't want to keep you from finding nuggets of gold, i simply don't want to hear that you found a nugget of lead.[/quote]

BSMG, I can see your point, and private property is private property. BUT, I can GUARENTEE you, that if you point a gun at me, especially had I trespassed on accident, I would shoot you on the spot. You are beyond foolish if you thin the law would be on your side in this situation. I believe you need to figure out the law before you are incarcerated from your actions. That is totally foolish thinking, and you may find yourself injured or dead because of it.

 

[Tim-PY]

[size=large]I would have replied with a more reasonable approach as the key to this original post was "No No Trespassing Signs" You did the right thing by leaving, I would have done the same. Always good to know your local laws. If you were held at gunpoint in a non-posted area the perp would have been considered the person with the weapon who most likely would have been charged with un-lawful imprisonment at the least. Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand that people with claims can have a lot of time and money tied into it. No Trespassing signs are only .98 at our local Wal-Mart. Be safe everyone! Tim[/size]

 

[Cruizer]

Eat the meat and spit out the bones, thats what I do when somebody gives advice or makes foolish threats. You are not wise bsmg.

 

[licn2chill]

Take a chill pill bsmg, have ya ever tried to explain your position and tried a little education with a person first? In times like these, chances are you'd have been the one arrested for brandishing a weapon, or assault with a deadly weapon. Law enforcement is going to take a real hard look at anyone trying to hold a person at gunpoint over a mining claim, especially if your life isn't being threatened, remember this isn't 1849 and you sure ain't a 49'er!

 

[Tim-PY]

n/t

 

[Eu_citzen]

Well at least here in Sweden you can prospect anywhere you want. The land owner would NOT have the right to point a gun at you.
There is a twist here though, there is NO law about electronic prospecting.
Know your laws...

Regards,
Eu

 

[UFOsAreReal]

I'm enjoying it here again.
Thank you BSMG for Stirring up some good conversation.
You are welcome to your opinion as Always.

 

[DaveBien]

As a retired law enforcement officer let me say please check the law and court decisions before making statements such as "held at gunpoint". Even in an extreme case one cannot defend property with deadly force that is reserved for defense of a human. What would happen if the person just walked away? You're going to shoot them? If you did your claims would end up in the victim's or their estate's pocket. NOT A DOUBT. If it was me I'm afraid you would be the one shot since after over 28 years as a cop in a metro area I do not take kindly to having the threat of deadly force used on me. I see a gun and, well the outcome is one which is not in doubt. It is a huge decision to knowingly take a life. And that is one you must be mentally prepared to do. There is no shooting to wound, etc. That is TV. I prepared all my adult life and I have already made my decision and have trained others to do the same as a firearms instructor. If you're not ready to accept that you better not pull a gun on someone that way. It doesn't matter what state you may be in. That is indefensible. You MUST give a person a way to correct the transgression, an option to retreat because you gave no PRIOR warning that there was a trespass. Since you claim its your livelihood don't be cheap and senseless. Spring for a couple of signs and post them. Criminal and civil courts are no fun. You won't like being in federal court on a civil rights lawsuit. You may feel your within your rights, but...

Remember, you have no idea who you're dealing with at anytime. If nothing else there is always someone faster or better than you. In this case talk IS cheap and oh so much better then what you proposed. Just my opinion and HH.

 

[licn2chill]

Well said Dave,...being a retire State Game Warden, I'm pretty much on par with your "metro" experience of being ready, ALL THE TIME. You never know who it is you're going to run into out there, it may be just some older guy who was a grocery store manager the better part of his life, or maybe a retired cop. I've had to deal with some pretty crusty old guys running a dredge on major rivers in California, and while most were decent guys, there was always the anti-law, I'm gonna do it my way, Claude Dallas attitude out there. The fun was trying to figure out which one he was.

 

[bigfrank]

Dave and licn2chill. Well said. Sometimes people are too quick to a decision. Pointing a gun at someone isnt a smart decision outside of a self defense situation. i guess some people dont understand that, and that could be a fatal flaw in their thinking.

Frank

 

[robert roy]

Dave Bien:
Now THATS an interesting question. Lets say I'm not an oficer and I am on private property and someone draws a gun on me
can I draw and fire at him first because he threatened me? I'd think I would be in as much trouble as him/her.....UNLESS there were witnesses and even then ......? WHat is the Law in your State?