Vaquero Tones ?

[synthnut]

Going by reports that I have heard , the Golden's tones are not that far apart and not all that distict to really be all that beneficial ....Again, this is from what I have heard, and I have not tried one myself .... I have also heard that they lacked depth compared to other Tesoro's .... I was swinging my brothers little Silver uMax last night in my yard, and that little thing is FUN to say the least ...I've said it before , and I'll say it again, .....Give me a Vaquero with a VCO with differnet pitch for different targets !!!.... If the Sovereign GT did not weigh so much , I would get one of those ....They seem to have the bases covered and it goes DEEEEEEEP too !!... I'm sure that the Vaquero goes just as deep as the Sovereign .....so the Vaq would be really SWEET with some VCO pitch action !!!......MAKE IT ...THEY WILL COME !!!!......Come on Tesoro !!!!......Jim

 

[dahut]

Going by reports that I have heard , the Golden's tones are not that far apart and not all that distict to really be all that beneficial ....Again, this is from what I have heard, and I have not tried one myself .... I have also heard that they lacked depth compared to other Tesoro's .... I was swinging my brothers little Silver uMax last night in my yard, and that little thing is FUN to say the least ...I've said it before , and I'll say it again, .....Give me a Vaquero with a VCO with differnet pitch for different targets !!!.... If the Sovereign GT did not weigh so much , I would get one of those ....They seem to have the bases covered and it goes DEEEEEEEP too !!... I'm sure that the Vaquero goes just as deep as the Sovereign .....so the Vaq would be really SWEET with some VCO pitch action !!!......MAKE IT ...THEY WILL COME !!!!......Come on Tesoro !!!!......Jim

Man you sound like me! I've said the same for years.

The Golden Depth

As for the the Golden uMax and depth. If you liked the Silver, then you know what the Golden will do in terms of depth. It is the same MicroMax circuit, same front-end performance. I've always been tickled at the folks who will trip over themselves to get a Silver-series detector - but turn their noses up at the Golden uMax cause they've heard it lacks depth. I've owned them all, and there is little difference in that regard. Here's a true story from last year....

I used a Golden uMax beside a Vaquero last year in a series of plowed field hunts, all on the same piece of land. This gave consistent test conditions in the field. Guess what I discovered? There was nothing the Vaquero could find that the Golden uMax missed. And the Golden gave me a sweet, reliable iron tone ID in low discrimination settings - something the iron-hog Vaquero could never do!

What about those tones?

The iron and high tones are very distinct. There is no mistaking them, so there is little worry there.

What you have heard so many people complain about are the tones which define the midrange of conductivity. They are indeed close together, i.e., the mid-lo and mid-high audio tones are not widely spaced in frequency.
And as odd as that seems, it is for a reason: the Golden uMax is a mid range detector.

This is because it is most expansive and has it's greatest resolution there, in the mid range. What does this mean?
Well, I can ID most common types of pulltabs with it, for example, just by working the controls. With practice, I can isolate a nickle from those nasty pulltabs that are just a teensy bit above the U.S. five cent coin - the same ones that usually usually fool other detectors.

The Trash Has it

See, the people who swear by the Golden uMax do so because of gold jewelry. Iron is easy, as is clad and silver coinage. You show me a Golden uMax aficionado and I'll show you someone who isnt afraid to hunt for trash.

It is a cruel truth of the Universe that the material thing we value above most others - gold - also reacts just like all the junk we detest. Since alloyed gold can ID as trash, anywhere between foil and pennies, you have no choice but to recover the targets that signal cleanly in that range. I call it a "trash detector" for a very good reason.

With that said, what is the compelling importance of very distinct mid range tones, when you must recover all targets in that range, anyway, if you are to get the gold?

After a bit of use, the tones WILL come through clearly. It does present a kind of "squawky," even abrupt response suite, though. And there are really SIX distinct tones. Also, trash or good targets mixed with trash will offer a "blend" of tones, since they do not present a consistent field interruption to the detector. So the Golden uMax can be a noisome challenge to those who expect a detector to tell them what they've found, instead of recovering what it finds. It really isnt for everybody - I'll give you that.

 

[synthnut]

Hi dahut,
Thanks for your reply and information

"There was nothing the Vaquero could find that the Golden uMax missed. And the Golden gave me a sweet, reliable iron tone ID in low discrimination settings - something the iron-hog Vaquero could never do!"

So you are saying then that the Golden will go every bit as deep as a Vaquero ? .....You mention the Vaquero being an "iron hog" .....Can't the Iron be decriminated out as the first item on the descrimination list ? .... Perhaps the Vaquero is also a pretty decent relic machine, and does iron pretty well ? ......Please advise ....I guess I'm not reading these machines correctly in the information that I have been reading ....????....Thanks for your help ....Jim

 

[dahut]

So you are saying then that the Golden will go every bit as deep as a Vaquero ? ....
No. Under the conditions at that site, i.e., soil, target depth, types of targets, etc., the Vaquero and the Golden were equal. Elsewhere, under different conditions, that may not be so.
But I AM saying that the MicroMax cicruit that the Golden uses is better than you may think, or have been led to believe.
I pulled a quarter from 8-10" last season with the Golden uMax, which gave a clear high coie tone.
Would the Vaquero have done that? Probably... but not with tone ID. Remember there are few, true One-Size-Fits-All detectors.

You mention the Vaquero being an "iron hog" .....Can't the Iron be discriminated out as the first item on the list ? ....
That's the theory, yes. In practice, it is generally only like that with smaller iron, say small nails and so on. Large iron items, well rusted in the soil may actually overload the circuits and cause some detectors to respond to it. I find the Vaquero to be guilty of this... thats all I'm saying.
Discrimination only sometimes acts like the TV commercials suggest it does, separating "trash from treasure..."
Now, some people will say they can tell iron by the short clipped response or "bad sounding" audio it gives.

But does that help a newcomer, who may not have a trained ear? This is why I like the option of tone ID.

Perhaps the Vaquero is also a pretty decent relic machine, and does iron pretty well ? ......
It is a good relic detector, because it has manual ground balance, is very sensitive, stable, and responds well to lower conductive targets. Here's what these things mean:

- Manual Ground Balance: This offers the ability to adapt to varied ground conditions. Relic hunting is done in diverse places, sometimes on the same day. Being able to adapt to ground conditions is critical. Some detectors automate this function, others leave it to the operator to perform.

- High Sensitivity: Relics by their nature tend to be deep. There is often thick overlay of vegetation and/or top soil at relic sites, too. In a 5 year old park, targets may not be deep. In a relic woods, they can be scary deep. If a detector is also stable while being sensitive, so much the better. The Vaquero is stable.

- Low conductivity response: Many relics are what are called "low conductors" - buttons are good examples. So are gold coins. Silver coins, by contrast, are high conductors.
A detector that responds well to low-conductive nickels, at depth, is going to be a good relic machine.
NOTE: The Vaquero has 180 degree phase response, what Tesoro calls "ED 180 discrimination." Put plainly, this means it responds well to targets all the way down into the iron range, which bottoms out at 180 degrees. The Golden, on the other hand, has only ED 120 discrimination, meaning it is not so iron sensitive... and it offers an iron tone for the ferrous items it does encounter.

I guess I'm not reading these machines correctly in the information that I have been reading ....????....Thanks for your help ....Jim
You are trying to learn, so chalk one up on the plus side of the board.
Much of the problem you but up against is the result of one thing: most of the information put out there is designed to sell detectors. Accurate, comparative data is sorely lacking.

Either the makers "hype you up," so you'll buy their model, or users do it instinctively on behalf of their "pet machines." You'd expect that of the manufacturers, but think about it - let a guy find one nice item, and you can guess which detector he will be lauding and suddenly in love with, eh?

If you really want some enlightenment, go visit Tom Dankowski's site and read up on ferrous masking and soil strata. Once you figure out what the heck he's talking about, you will find yourself re evaluating your choices.

 

[synthnut]

dahut,
Thank you for the explanations ...It's more clear to me now .....Jim

 

[HaroldILL.]

Hey dahut great information on the golden! What I mean by respeactable depth is 7''on a silver dime with a nice soft high tone. That is also a negative I hear about the golden is the high tone drops down after 6''. That would be in moderate ground. Also I have heard some people talk about a manual ground balance mod. have you had this done to any of your goldens? And if so who does them and do they help?

 

[dahut]

Hey dahut great information on the golden! What I mean by respeactable depth is 7''on a silver dime with a nice soft high tone. That is also a negative I hear about the golden is the high tone drops down after 6''. That would be in moderate ground. Also I have heard some people talk about a manual ground balance mod. have you had this done to any of your goldens? And if so who does them and do they help?

My Golden UMax will air test 7" on a clad dime - with the high tone intact.

SENS: half way into the boost zone
THRESH: barely audible
NOTCH: OFF
DISC: Preset

a). Fluorescent lights present in the room,
b) Audio results from the speaker alone, no headphones...

As you can see, this is pushing the SENS, but without the THRESHOLD punch of super tuning. I would expect the high tone to drop a notch after the 6" mark. But, under most conditions, anything that responds clearly in both swing directions and indicates over 4" deep should be recovered - period.

As for the GB mod, I have not done it. I live in South Carolina and the soil here is universally mild. Only on rare occasions have I seen problems, and those I recall can be traced to mineralized gravel fill being present. Whenever I test the preset balance, I find it is slightly positive.
Remember, the Golden uM is a micro max detector. It is not going to detect to China - it has limits.

But within those limits, it is fast, accurate and light. And when the conditions are right, it can impress.

 

[HaroldILL.]

Thanks for the response dahut! When it comes to the golden you are the man! I guess I am going to have to brake down and get one. They usally go pretty cheap used. That way if I don't like it I won't be out a fortune. And at the very least it has the tones I like. I just coundn't get use to the single tone of the vaquero and tejon. I agree with you when you say that if the vaquero had the tones of the golden it would be a perfect machine and tesoro's best seller! Tesoro are you listening?
!